Lawrence O' Donnell shoots down one of the GOP "talking points"

[Armstead]

One of the talking points of the GOP is that Valarie Plame wasn't really a covert secret operative, so revealing her identity wasn;t that big a deal. This usually comes after they smirkingly say this is just a "summer diversion."

However on KCRW's program Left, Right and Center, Lawrence O'Donnell, who forst revealed Rove as Cooper's source, brought up a very good point that shoots that down.

He pointed out that a prosecutor's and Grand Jury's first job is to determine if actions involved actually do constitute a crime. If not, it ends at that point. Therefore, one of the first things Fitzgerald should have done is to determine whether revealing Plame's situation really did invoke the law involved.

The fact that the investigation has gone on for two years indicates -- at the very least -- that they have already determined that she was not just a desk jockey who's identity didn't matter.

If you want to hear tne whole show, here's a link:

http://www.kcrw.com/show/lr

[KittyWampus]

1. Plus, Was She A Lowly Desk Jockey Or In A Higher Up Who Sent Wilson

because the liars are saying both.

[acmejack]

5. She was a lot more than a lowly desk jockey

I assure you. She was in a position to recommend Wilson and he certainly is a credible Africa expert. He was approved by higher authority.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. He had to be approved by a higher authority, right?

Who sent him though? A higher CIA official or someone in the administration?

[TerdlowSmedley]

12. If you read Wilson's rebuttal of RNC talking points,

he was actually recommended by others at CIA, in response to a question from Cheney's office about sending someone to Africa. Plame then confirmed and discussed her husband's bona fides, agreeing that he would be a good person to send.

[H2O Man]

13. Correct n/t

[Jazzgirl]

2. I keep telling people the same thing.

There would be no investigation if it hadn't already been established that a CIA agent was outed. Now...who knew what, when....those are different questions. One thing is for sure...this isn't the real story. Can you spell DSM?? :grr:

[unblock]

3. strictly speaking, that's not necessarily the case

it's certainly reasonable to assume that the grand jury has decided that the prosecuter has a case showing that, if true, some laws were violated.

however, since we don't yet know exactly which statutes are involved, it's entirely possible that plame's status as 'covert' is not relevant to the particular charges. for instance, if the charges are to be perjury and obstruction or disclosure of classified information, then it doesn't matter.

if they are going to make a charge of exposing a covert agent, then yes, o'donnell's point would stand.

[KharmaTrain]

7. This Is About Who Leaked Plame And Why

O'Donnell pointed out that one of the first witnesses to appear had to have been someone from the CIA who would have had to verify Plame's status at the time of the Novak article and relevant information regarding her and Joe Wilson. If this hadn't satisfied the judge, the case wouldn't have proceded to where it is now.

Also, one of the judges, in his writing to uphold sending Miller and Cooper to jail said the felonies being investigated rose above the press shield privilidges as this was a matter of national security. One even wrote about a "plot against Wilson"...which gives this inquiry a whole different look.

If you haven't been following what Larry's been saying/reporting...give it a close look. He's the one who brought Rove's name out in the first place. IMHO, when the book and movie of this sad fiasco is written, Lawrence O'Donnell's name will be on the cover.

Cheers...

[FreedomAngel82]

9. Heck yeah

Maybe he can even produce it. ;)

[KharmaTrain]

14. I Know You've Been Following This

I'm liking what I'm seeing...don't know about you.

I think we're in for some interesting times. But the struggle will be worth the outcome.

Cheers

:hi:

[ellenfl]

10. my understanding is that the cia demanded the investigation.

they would not have done that for a 'desk jockey'.

ellen fl

[unblock]

17. don't get me wrong. i think she was indeed a noc agent.

and i also think they've got the goods on a number of key players. i also agree that o'donnell is the closest thing we have to a woodstein for this scandal.

i'm just pointing out a logic flaw, that the timing of the scandal doesn't necessarily, in and of itself, prove that the grand jury agrees with this particular point. i do think the grand jury agrees, just that the timing doesn't prove it.

after all, this is the same logic the right wing used during the endless whitewater investigation, that they must have something or else they would have shut it down a long time ago.

[KharmaTrain]

4. I Posted This Yesterday...It Dropped Like A Rock

Lawrence bitch slaps Blankley...and well worth the pleasure of seeing that fat asshat get his...and has the best perspective of what's going on here than any one else.

Larry's "Hollywood's Man" in the beltway. This man's very connected and many of the things he's discussed are ones that are very germain to the central investigation here...not the spin game. It's so refreshing to read and hear what he has to say.

[Zorbuddha]

15. Absolutely. And Fox News is stuttering

Very thin gruel from the apologists.

Its fun to watch the vengeful bastards squirm at the prospect of justice.

[KharmaTrain]

16. I Think This Is Called "Death Throes"...LOL n/t

[pacalo]

18. I saw your post & listened to the recorded broadcast.

O'Donnell said the first step Fitzgerald would have taken was to establish that harm was done to Plame, that she had been undercover.
If that hadn't been the case, Fitzgerald would have stopped there; no crime was committed.

[KharmaTrain]

22. Call Me Optimistic

But I see that level reached...or this inquest would have been drawn to a conclusion months ago.

The other elephant in the room is how a politically appointed prosecutor and several judges would agree to put reporters in jail in Washington...knowing the political and media circus that would ensue. Plus the SCOTUS turned down the appeals...they must know something, too.

Right now there's only a handful of people who really know where this story is, and they're not saying. That's fine with me. I've waited this long for the hubris of this regime to start imploding, I can wait a little longer.

The job of rebuilding is what I am bracing for.

Cheers...

[pacalo]

23. I'm patient, too.

I like what I've seen so far from those who have gotten a peek inside, particularly Cooper's lawyer. In addition to his comment that the investigation is substantial, there was something about the grave expression on his face on "Hardball" last week that made me feel confident that we'll see justice done. The look on his face when the GOP nut pathetically rationalized the unrational was of sad disbelief, & he calmly voiced his disagreement, in an understated manner, to the hack's underplay of the case.

And I like knowing that this investigation is being led by a meticulous, serious-minded nonpartisan.

[pgh_dem]

26. Cooper's lawyer wasn't Ted Olsen right? He was what, TIme's?

Just for the SC argument?

Can't imagine Bush v Gore Ted pulling the sweet play on Rove of calling out Luskin on his public statements, forcing him to *legally* rather than just PR-wise release Cooper from confidentiality.

[Athame]

24. the SCOTUS turned down the appeals...

Hmmm. Hadn't considered the connection before, but do you think this is why Rehnquist is refusing to retire? Either he doesn't want to add to the distraction or perhaps he wants to salvage something of his own legacy (fat chance!) by presiding over the impeachment of W.

[KharmaTrain]

25. I Won't Go THAT Far

Honestly, I doubt Gilbert O'Sullivan Rehnquist will make it through an impeachment. I think he wants to go out on top and see if he CAN take it with him.

My point is being there's gotta be some real smoke here for Miller to be jailed...a process the corporate media is gleefully ignoring.

Cheers...

[Athame]

27. I understand and agree with your point about Miller

but if the Supreme Court does know what the smoke is about, they all have to be thinking about how they are going to come off in history, having installed these monsters, Rehnquist more than the others, IMHO.

It may be wishful thinking on my part, but I do hope he is stewing in the juices of the nightmare he and the other "justices" brought about. May his grandchildren be ashamed to mention his name.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. Of course!

It's so simple. If Rove really didn't break the law I doubt a prosecutor like Fitzgerald would still be going on the case. He would have bigger fish to fry.

[H2O Man]

11. Yep.

Unless the first witness that Fitzgerald called to testify had proven above and beyond any doubt what Plame's status was, the judge overseeing the investigation would have closed it down.

[pacalo]

21. The most intriguing part of the investigation is the redacted pages

of classified information that only the judges saw.

How I wish the information connected a lot of their crimes, particularly the stolen election.

[Cha]

19. Thanks, I can just see some

of the rw neanderthals trying to wrap their brain around that one..

"DUH":freak:

[TacticalPeek]

20. Crooks & Liars has this and ex-CIA Jack Rice's excellent comments.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/07/15.html#a3966




LAWRENCE O'DONNELL:
Here’s what I think is definitive on this question. Patrick Fitzgerald has represented to the courts that he is pursuing a serious, national security, criminal violation. It seems to me in this grand jury, witness number one -- and Tony you’ve been a prosecutor, you know how they assemble cases -- witness number one would have been a CIA administrator who comes in and testifies about how Valerie Plame does indeed fit the law’s requirements. Because if witness number one doesn’t do that successfully for the prosecutor, there is absolutely no reason to call witness number two, because there is no crime to investigate.

Tony?


TONY BLANKLEY:
Yeah--well--I mean--that’s one way to approach it.


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Then scroll down to former CIA officer Jack Rice on MSNBC's Countdown:


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"The Ripple Effect caused by outing Valeri Plame"

STEWART: Is it likely that national security has been compromised because of this?

RICE: I think it's very possible. We'll never completely know. Ideally, I hope it hasn't been. But at the same time, what happens here is, if we ever, either side, either political party, start using politics over what's right, over patriotism, we're going to have a very serious problem in this country.

STEWART: And in terms of that ripple effect you talked about, in terms of things being compromised and people's situations being compromised, and their assignments being compromised, how could the damage be repaired?

RICE: I think in this case, what needs to be done is, it needs to be addressed. It needs to be treated as seriously as it should.

Look, if we—if you look at this two ways, you can look back and see what this may have done. You can go back and see what she may have done, and you can look at those assets. That is one implication.

There's a second implication, at what may happen in the future, what happens for any future operations, what other CIA or other intelligence operatives may be willing to do in the future.

If there's a perception that you're going to see people in blue pinstripe suits in Washington wrapping themselves in the flag and talking about God and country while they're exposing CIA and intelligence operatives, you're going to have a real hard time convincing CIA officers to get out into the field and risk their lives for those people.

STEWART: Jack Rice, a former CIA special agent. Thank you so much for your time and your perspective tonight.

RICE: Thank you, Alison.

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Yes, thank you , Jack Rice.