I'd like to educate some parents here about game mods.

[Occulus]

There are an awful lot of completely uninformed, uneducated parents right here at DU who seem to think that the content in the "Hot Coffee" scene in GTA can be seen by anybody.

There is a qualification here:

The "Hot Coffee" scene is unlocked via the use of what's called a "mod".

Here is the complete readme.txt file for the PC version of this mod:

============================================
Hot Coffee Mod V2 for GTA San Andreas
============================================
http://www.gtagarage.com/mods/show.php?id=28 (<--- get it here- kgfnally)
============================================
Author : PatrickW (address deleted here by kgfnally)
Co-Authors : Craig Kostelecky
Hammer83
============================================
rating : 18+
============================================

With this mod you will be able to unlock the uncensored
interactive sex-games with your girlfriends in San Andreas.
Rockstar build all this stuff in the game, but decided to
disable it in their final release for unknown reasons.
And now this mod enables these sex-games again, so now you
can enjoy the full experience.

This package contains two versions of this mod:
* the quick action version, that will bring you quickly to the
action, but may spoil your gameplay.
* the gameplay friendly version, that will show you the action,
but doesn't influence the game-play. Now you must play the game
until you unlock a girlfriend and get her to go drink coffee with you.

A supplementary package is available, with a gameplay friendly version for the XBOX.
As the sacensor tool can't be used on that platform.

Quick Action Version
--------------------
This one has basicly the functionality of the first release:
* You're dating every girlfriend from the beginning
* Girlfriends are always available for dates
* Girlfriends will have coffee with your after every date from the beginning.
* You will be able to see what they do when they say that they're drinking coffee.
* The "coffee drinking" is interactive, so you can proof yourself.
* you will still be able to play all the missions and side-games.

supplemented with:
* The girlfriends will now be completely nude during the coffee-drinking
* Craig Kostelecky's "Opened Up" mod is included, which means:
- all barriers are removed
- all areas accessible without 4 star penalty
- most interiors accessible from the start (e.g. casino's)

Install:
* Backup your data/script/main.scm and data/script/script.img files
* Replace the original main.scm and script.img files with the versions in this archive.
* Start a new game (old savefile will no longer work)
* Go to one of your girlfriends, date her en take her home


Gameplay Friendly version
-------------------------
After the first release of this mod, I got a lot of requests from people that wanted
the uncensored action, but didn't want the other things that influenced the gameplay,
like being able to date all girls from the start.
I was gonna provide them with a version of the mod that did just that, but Hammer83
came up with a much better idea: he created a tool ("sacensor.exe") that will let
you switch just the "censored"-flag, either in a running game or in a savefile on disk.
This way you can still enjoy the action, even if you've already started a game and have made
considerable progress and are not willing to start all over.
The only limitation is that this version will use the girlfriend-models that R* used for it,
and not the fully nude ones from the Quick-action version.
Read Hammer83's sacensor_readme.txt for explanation of the usage of this tool.
Note:
When using this tool, you should always have the original main.scm installed.
You can however install the script.img from the quick Action version, this will still keep the
gameplay intact, but it will give you the full nude models.


Credits
-------
Thanx to Barton Waterduck, for discovering the animations in the PS2 version.
Thanx to Hammer83, for creating the sacensor tool
Thanx to Craig Kostelecky, for having his mod included in this one.
Thanx to illspirit for pointing out the fully nude models
Thanx to www.gtagarage.com for hosting this mod at their brilliant site.
Greetings to the modding community at www.gtaforums.com
Greetings to the crew at the www.gtanet.com network
Greetings to the crew at www.gtagames.nl
Greetings to all NYCC members

(kgfnally's edit: it wasn't just one person who found this; it was several, and after a great deal of hunting.)

History
-------
09 june 2005 - release of "hot coffee"
* initial release
12 june 2005 - release of "hot coffee v2"
* Included fully nude models
* Included Craig kostelecky's "Opened up" mod
* Included Hammer83's "sacensor" tool for gameplay friendly version
16 june 2005 - release of "hot coffee v2 for XBOX"
* enable gameplay friendly version for the XBOX
17 june 2005 - release of "hot coffee v2.1"
* fixed problem with triggering mission with the "quick action" version
* removed limit of one date per day, date as often as you want.

-----
End readme

Now, I'd like to point out a VERY IMPORTANT PART of this whole debate: This is not a "code". This is not a "key combo". This is an actual executable file, and other files which, when used to replace the original files, enable content that would otherwise never, ever have been seen in the game.

This is, in other words, a hack. a MODification. It's not too different from the patch that unblurs the people in "The Sims", and I didn't hear a single PEEP of concern over that one, despite that game being one of the bestselling PC games of ALL TIME.

The hypocrisy is stunning. Absolutely stunning.

Game mods have been around for more than ten years. In fact, game mods have actually been used to tone down violence in some games! I remember a "Barney" mod for the original Doom which was specifically created to cater to parents with young children that would change all the monsters into Barney the Dino, all bullets into (I think) smileys, and all textures into rainbows and sunshine.

It was... creepy. Really creepy.

But the point is, mods are created by end users. Although the content of the mods use may already be in the game, it is up to the gamer himself to cobble it all together, and believe me, it takes time. Sometimes, months of work.

A great example of what's possible in modding is Garry's Mod for Half-Life 2. With this mod, one can "spawn" into a map any object or character in the game, and place and pose them to their heart's content. Please note, any objectionable poses ARE NOT VALVe'S RESPONSIBILITY. And yet, VALVe has no objection to the mod itself. In fact, they've actually pointed their users to it.

To complain about what Garry's Mod can do is not to complain about what the developer, or publisher, themselves did. In the case of the "Hot Coffee" mod for GTA, again, it would never have been seen without the input of an end user NOT associated with Rockstar.

Let me say this a little simpler, for the clueless: Rockstar did NOT enable this scene; an end user found it and made files to enable it, all on their own. Without that end-user's input, there would be no "Hot Coffee" mod.

So now the question turns to modding in itself. Parents, I am sorry, but you shall not hold control over what modders can or cannot do. Ever. All you can do is not buy the games, because more and more, and especially for PC games, user content is all the rage. In fact, it is arguably the case that, without user mods, the entire first-person shooter genre would never have been as popular as it became.

Those older gamers here will likely remember a program called DoomCad. DoomCad was an editor for the original Doom- one could create faux-3D maps as the game itself had, but using their own skills to create the maps. id software (sic) had nothing at all to do with this, outside of not caring that people were modifying their game.

id software had the wisdom to recognize that, if end users could create their own maps (and later, "total conversions" which completely modified the behavior and in some cases the actual code that ran the game engine itself), their game would end up being astonishingly popular (which it was). This later became a benchmark by which all other games of the genre came to be judged; the ability to create one's own content extended the replay value of the game into infinity.

It is the end users themselves who created the new content. In GTA's case, again, it is an end user who created the ability to access the "Hot Coffee" scene. Without that input from that end user, this would never have happened.

What the "responsible" parents here are really complaining about is the very ability to modify published games- the very selfsame thing that makes PC games unique. I have a very big problem with that. Their complaints will, if we gamers and modders do not shut them up and shut them down, end in us being unable to create our own content because some parents think we might create something objectionable, and this will be a serious blow to the gaming industry as a whole in the long run.

My point is, you cannot trust a PC game to remain true to its content label after purchase, because many of these games come with the tools needed to create one's own content. All these tools are free, and many times, the game itself ships with them. That's just the way it is.

Parents, you can't stop modders. You just can't. Even if a game is rated 'E' for everyone, if it comes with editors, or the ability to modify the content of the game, you better believe modders will play with those tools, and they just might create something you won't much like. Tough cookies- you have no power to stop that. However, you DO have the power to just not buy the games. That's up to you, but please, stop complaining about what end users do to the games themselves.

You just don't have the right to do so.

[skids]

1. If you can get that mod, you can also download porn.

Anyone who can get a copy of "hot coffee" can also get a copy movies portraying of donkey sex, bukkaki, waste fetish, severe bondage, and reams of more mainstrean hardcore pornography.

This seems to be a point many, including Senator Clinton, miss entirely.

[Occulus]

3. And what they REALLY don't understand

is that this mod only really works for the PC version- which, as I understand it, is played far more by adults than by younger children. They, kids, play the game more on the PS2 or XBOX, both of which are much more difficult to alter. You actually need seperate hardware to do so on a console, just because of the way they're built.

Most of this controversy is being caused by clueless parents to whom this issue is simply too complicated for them to grok. I'm getting really, really sick of self-righteous ignoramuses telling me what I may and may not do with what I purchase.

They have NO right. Period.

[HornBuckler]

8. Absolutely!

I'm pretty miffed with Hilary on this one. Your point is exactly right. It's EASIER to get donkey porn than the hot coffe mod! Where is their outrage on that issue?

What kid never saw porn or porno growing up before they were 'supposed' to?

Freaking hypocritical idiots.

[sleipnir]

2. Well said!

n/t

[Occulus]

4. Thank you.

This whole thing just makes me itch.

[UncleSepp]

5. Well put! Might as well ban crayons

Someone might draw a dirty picture with them.

More to the point, nudity and sex doesn't change GTA that much. It's a violent game where you're playing a criminal. If your kids are already playing this game, you must not be too worried about exposing them to "bad influences".

[Occulus]

6. It's not just that, though

Half-Life 2 has Garry's Mod. It (the game itself, not that particular mod) comes with the XSI Mod Tool, which lets you create models and animations to be placed into the game.

These tools are often very difficult to competently use, and require hours and hours of work to put it all together. I don't like that people wish to cheapen and twist that talent into something that it isn't.

Modding is HARD. It takes, oftentimes, an entire team. And I am VERY concerned that their outrage will result in legislation forbidding modding, perhaps via an amendment to the DMCA making it illegal, for example, to modify the original content of a game's final, publication version.

We need to nip this in the bud and put these people in their place before that's ever even proposed. They don't have a clue what they're talking about, and in their outrage over the Hot Coffe mod, they very likely won't care what modding entails; they'll just want to make it impossible to do in the first place.

That has to be stopped.

[UncleSepp]

16. A-HA! It's an IP issue

This hasn't got anything to do with mods unlocking dirty bits. It's most likely that such an amendment to the DMCA is the end goal here, and the Hot Coffee mod is just being used to fire up the public using something they don't understand to get behind something else they don't understand.

[HornBuckler]

7. Exactly Right

You're spot on. The problem however, is that a lot of these folks would rather impede on our freedoms than protect/celebrate them. It's pretty disappointing to read the comments made by other liberals upset by GTA or any other game for that matter. I'm sure you were raised on violent and sexual material (like I was). I seem to have made it through pretty well. The first movie my parents took me to was Alien for christ's sake. It's simple - Be cool with your kids, don't censor their experiences and they'll be intelligent mature adults in no time.

[Fenris]

9. That's a spot-on synopsis

:thumbsup:

[Occulus]

10. Thanks

It takes being a long-time gamer to really fully understand what is possible with today's Pc games. It's not easy by any means, but they can and are modified on a regular basis.

edited to add: the Hot Coffee mod would never have been created by a child. It requires complex knowledge of the more technical aspects of games and writing code. I seriously doubt any nine or ten-year-old kid has the patience to learn that stuff; I'm talking about the kinds of things one learns in a college computer science course.

[HornBuckler]

11. You remeber?

The first instance of A porno 'mod' that I can remember was an effort by some German dudes with The Bard's Tale Construction Set. They had altered most of the images to include dirty animations and changed all the dialogue around into a hilarious script. It was fun, can't remember what the hell it was called but I must have been around 12 or so. I remember calling my dad in to check it out. He laughed a bit and said don't let your mother see that. She eventually did anyways, no big deal.

This has been going on now for decades (as you point out) and will continue for decades to come. A few years from now the technology will be so good the scenes will be full blown explicit porno. Boy, they'll shit their pants then, eh?

[Occulus]

12. OMG, I still HAVE that thing!

I never saw that particular mod, but I do still have TBTCS. Maybe I should dig that up and send it to Hillary, just to illustrate that this has been going on for years and years and years.

[HornBuckler]

14. You should

There was another game with topless women in it, I believe it was called Keif the Theif - this was back before the ESRB and I seem to remember absolutely no write-ups or complaining about it. I don't like Clinton pandering to these moronic parents over this issue! It really upsets me - last thing we need is another Tipper Gore PMRC fiasco.

Dumbasses!

[annabanana]

13. Your folks sound pretty cool....

I've never engaged in serious censoring of what my boys watch or play.. They've known from as soon as they could talk that how you treat the people in your life, and by extension, the rest of the people in the world is the best and only yardstick for values.

If you don't get into your kids heads while they're little, you've missed your chance to be a good parent.


edit:typing

[HornBuckler]

15. Sounds like your raising your children like I was raised.

It's a simple concept really. It amazes me how it eludes so many people though. It's more about the context than the content. It's how it's presented and whether the child is mature enough to handle it (this can not be broken into age brackets) it's up to the parent to decide. More often than not, hiding things like sex and violence under lock and key and restriciting their viewing to G and PG rated films until they are 15+ will do more harm than good in my opinion. When they finally see the realities of the world (which we all know they will) they will be immature and overly sensitive to it.

just a thought