Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Depleted Uranium: an Introduction.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 03:59 PM
Original message
Depleted Uranium: an Introduction.
{Moderators, I have the permission of Dr. Fasy to reproduce this slide show in its entirety. -reprehensor.}



Dr. Fasy is an Associate Clinical Professor of Pathology at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. He has longstanding interests in carcinogenesis and environmental toxicology. In the past two years, he has lectured at conferences and university campuses on the toxic effects of inhaling uranium oxide dusts derived from depleted uranium weapons.

------------------------------

It is a high honor for me to speak before the WORLD TRIBUNAL on IRAQ. I thank the organizing committee for their invitation.

Uranium is radioactive and it is a toxic heavy metal. Inside the body, uranium exists as uranyl ions. Much of the toxicity of uranium is chemically mediated, in addition to the effects mediated by radiation.



In 1896, while conducting experiments with crystal of potassium uranyl sulfate, Henri Becquerel discovered the phenomenon of radioactivity. Uranium, however, was known to be toxic since the 1820's.



In june 1942, when a commission of scientists reported to President Franklin Roosevelt that a uranium fission bomb could be built "in time to influence the outcome of the war", they explicity warned about the toxicity of uranium and consequently, a large scale research program on uranium toxicology was begun in May 1943.



It is now clear that uranium has multiple toxicities. This slide summarizes some of the major toxicities of uranium.



By the early 1900s, uranium was well recognized to be a kidney toxin. By the mid-1940s, uranium was known to be a neurotoxin. By the early 1970s, uranium was recognized to be a carcinogen based on mortality studies of uranium workers and on experiments with dogs and monkeys. The first evidence that uranyl ions bind to DNA was reported in 1949 and by the early 1990s, uranium was shown to be a mutagen. Also, in the early 1990s, uranium was shown to be a teratogen, that is, an inducer of birth defects. The toxic effects of uranium on the kidney and on the nervous system typically occur within days of exposure and radiation probably plays little or no role in mediating these effects. In contrast, the carcinogenic effects of uranium have a delayed onset. The teratogenic effects of uranium might be due to exposure of one parent prior to conception as well as to exposure of the mother to uranium early in pregnancy.

Now let us briefly consider the routes of exposure to uranium. In the context of the dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons, this means exposure to uranium oxides. By far the most dangerous route of exposure to uranium oxides is the inhalational or respiratory route. Absorption of uranium oxides through the gastrointestinal tract, the skin and the conjunctivae is possible but quite limited.



Following impact with hard targets, uranium metal undergoes combustion releasing large quantities of very small uranium oxide dust particles into the environment.



These dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons are drastically different from the natural uranium that is normally present in rocks and soil.



Soil particles contain uranium at very low concentrations, typically less than 5 parts per million; the vast majority of these soil particles, however, are too large to be inhaled deep into the lungs. In contrast, the dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons contain very high concentrations of uranium, typically more than 500.000 parts per million; moreover, most of the D.U. dust particles are sufficiently small to be inhaled deep into the lungs. Thus, compared to the uranium naturally present in the environment, D.U. dust contains uranium in a form that is vastly more bio-available and more readily internalized.



Uranyl ions bind to DNA; they bind in the minor groove of DNA. While bound to DNA, uranyl ions are chemically reactive and can give rise to free radicals which may damage DNA. Chemically mediated DNA damage of this type may contribute to the ability of uranium to induce cancers.



I would now like to present some epidemiologic data from the Basra governate in the south of Iraq. In February 1991, more than 300 tons (possibly much more than 300 tons) of D.U. weapons were used in South of Iraq. After 5-6 year latent periods, increases in childhood cancers and birth defects were documented in the Basra governate. The most recent data indicate a four fold increase in pediatric malignancies and a seven fold increase in congenital malformations compared to 1990, the year preceeding the war.



On this map, we can see the areas contaminated with D.U. weapons in the 1991 war and in the 2003 war.



The epidemiologic data, that I will present were reported by Drs. Alim Yacoub and Jenan Hassan.



This graph presents the changing incidence rate was approximately three cases of congenital malformations per one thousand births.



This rate fluctuated considerably until 1998 when it began to rise sharply. By 2001, the rate was more than 22 cases per thousand births, more than a seven fold increase compared to 1990. The next graph depicts the changing incidence rates of all childhood cancers and of leukemia (the most common childhood cancer) in the Basra governate.



The zero level represents the incidence rate for 1990. The incidence rates for total childhood cancers and for leukemias rose significantly between 1995 and 1998 and then began to increase sharply in 1999. In this graph, leukemia patients in the Basrah governate are seperated into three age groups: those diagnosed with leukemia before age 5, those diagnosed between age 5 and 9, and those diagnosed between ages 10 and 15. This graph shows a striking increase in the number of leukemia cases in children younger than five. In 1990, 2 children under five were diagnosed with leukemia; In 2002, 53 children under five were diagnosed with leukemia.



When we look at charts and graphs of leukemia cases, we can easily lose sight of the anguish that leukemia represents for each child and his or her family. So I will close by presenting the story of Atarid, a five year old boy in Baghdad. This poignant photo was taken by Cathy Breen, a nurse from New York with Voices in the Wilderness. The photo was taken in mid-March 2003, a few days before the bombing of Baghdad began. Atarid was in hospital for treatment of his leukemia; his mother, Adra, has just been notified that all cancer patients in the hospital will be sent home to make room for the expected casualties from the iminent bombing. At the end of March 2003, Atarid died at home of septicemia, a blood infection. It is not possible to establish a direct cause and effect relationship between the contamination of many populated areas of Iraq with uranium oxide dust from depleted uranium weapons and the increased incidence of cancers, leukemia and birth defects in Iraq.

Nonetheless, uranium is a known carcinogen and a known inducer of birth defects. Consequently, its dispersal into the environment in a form that is so readily internalized, is at the very least, profoundly reckless.



---------------------------------------

Related: Leuren Moret, Depleted Uranium: A Scientific Perspective
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bookmarked and nominated
For more information on depleted uranium hazards for civilians and military personnel see also the web site of the Uranium Medical Research Centre, founded by Dr. Asaf Durakovic, a former head of nuclear medicine at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Wilmington Delaware and a professor of nuclear medicine at Georgetown University. www.umrc.net

Dr. Durakovic served as Chief of Professional Clinical Services of the 531 Medical Detachment during the Desert Shield phase of the Gulf War. When he returned to the Veteran's Administration (VA) Nuclear Medicine facility in Wilmington, Delaware, which he headed, he was asked to assess 24 soldiers of the 144th Transportation and Supply Company of New Jersey for evidence of DU in their bodies. He recalls: "They had been based in Saudi Arabia from January to August 1991, working with damaged tanks hit by DU armour-piercing shells from 'friendly fire.'" Durakovic's team performed a whole-body count of uranium 238 on the troops and found that 14 of the 24 had been contaminated. According to Durakovic's June 26, 1997, testimony before the Subcommittee on Human Resources of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, the government 'lost' all records of these examinations. And shortly thereafter, Durakovic 'lost' his job.

Durakovic may have been forced to step down from his VA position at Wilmington, but the army could not strip him of his ethics as a medical doctor. In the interests of his patients he founded the Uranium Medical Research Center, an independent non-profit institute which studies the effects of uranium contamination and challenges Pentagon claims that "exposures to depleted uranium have not to date produced any observable adverse health effects attributable to DU's chemical toxicity or low-level radiation." Dr. Durakovic explains that when depleted uranium is blown up at high temperatures, it changes to tiny particles. If inhaled, the uranium particles can get into the bloodstream and can be lodged in the bone, lymph nodes, lungs or kidneys causing damage by emitting low-level radiation in the body over a long period of time. The price can be cancer, necrosis and genetic deformity. Inexplicable, then, the Pentagon's refusal to comply with a 1993 congressional mandate to study the health effects of inhaled and ingested depleted uranium dust.

Or does the answer lie close at hand? According to Dr. Durakovic there are two main reasons for the Pentagon's DU-paranoia - and they both involve money: compensation for those suffering from DU-contamination, and the exorbitant costs of battle theatre clean up. But money seems a petty concern when we are talking about changes to the human gene pool. "Deformities among children born to Gulf War vets are well-documented as is the rising incidence of birth malformations in Iraq," Dr Durakovic points out. "What will happen in future generations? I have seen the effects of radiation worldwide. The consequences of DU are immeasurable."

http://www.nuclear-free.com/english/durakovic.htm


There ought to be an extra warm location deep in the bowels of hell set aside for the bastards that unleashed depleted uranium munitions on the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Another outstanding post, rep
Great job. Nominated for "Greatest".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is a very good presentation.
Plus it doesn't scream "NuClEaR iS BaD!!!11!!! GG NO RE" based on emotion rather than fact like a bunch of loonie groups do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savannahana Donating Member (491 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. thank you for this - excellent presentation - nominated.
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 05:27 PM by savannahana
Leuren Moret earned hero-truth-teller status with me several years ago. Stumbled into Moret's work doing research on the internet in an effort to assist a friend and Gulf War veteran (a volunteer) who was & still is (in what time he has left) struggling to come to terms with the devastation of his health after a decade of misdiagnosis and denial within the medical mainstream, and nothing but obstruction and additional endless red-tape stress from the VA.

Thanks so much for bringing Dr. Fasy's work to our attention now.
Profound thanks to Dr. Fasy for the great clarity offered here.

If not yet (though already so long-overdue), I believe that in time to come these issues of the true effects of depleted uranium will haunt us on a scale we can't yet imagine. In my view, those who have participated in the suppression of these truths are damned utterly - far beyond mere "suppression" - damned by their complicity in the propagation of longstanding lies - lies of almost incomprehensible scope for utter shamelessness and sheer amorality.

May these liars and deniers (whatever their "field" of involvement: governmental, military, scientific, medical, or journalistic) ultimately be held fully accountable before all of humanity and planet Earth.

Thank you again, reprehensor. As you may know, DUer hiley is another person among us whose persistent and admirable posts here go a long way toward exposing the horrors of depleted uranium.

Kudos to each of you, and to all those working to bring us to awareness of the irreversible and yet-unfathomable consequences of depleted uranium weapons upon human life and all life, Earth's life: present and future.

ana in KY

on edit: for spelling,
and having just read others' great responses -
thank you, each one of you.

2nd edit: my dyslexia is acting up today, apparently :blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. savannahana
Hello
thank you for your always thoughtful posts.
miss seeing you around.
hiley:hug:

Weapons of Self-Destruction

By David Rose

Is Gulf War syndrome
- possibly caused by Pentagon ammunition - taking its toll on G.I.'s in Iraq?When he started to get sick, Staff Sergeant Raymond Ramos's first instinct was to fight. "I had joint pains, muscle aches, chronic fatigue, but I tried to exercise it out," he says. "I was going for runs, working out. But I never got any better. The headaches were getting more frequent and sometimes lasted all day. I was losing a lot of weight. My overall physical demeanor was bad."

snip---

In 2002 the United Nations Sub-Commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights declared that depleted uranium was a weapon of mass destruction, and its use a breach of international law. But the difference between D.U. and the W.M.D. that formed the rationale for the Iraqi invasion is that depleted uranium may have a boomerang effect, afflicting the soldiers of the army that fires it as well as the enemy victims of "lethality overmatch."

The four members of the 442nd who tested positive all say they have met soldiers from other units during their medical treatment who complain of similar ailments, and fear that they too may have been exposed. "It's bad enough being sent out there knowing you could be killed in combat," Raymond Ramos says. "But people are at risk of bringing something back that might kill them slowly. That's not right."

http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/printables/041115roco04?print=true

David Rose is a Vanity Fair contributing editor. His book Guantánamo: The War on Human Rights is an in-depth investigation of the atrocities taking place at the Cuban prison.

"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph"
Haile Selassie



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. So how many American troops have been exposed to DU now?
And how many Iraqi children?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. And it's not just American troops and Iraqis.

Terry Riordon was a member of the Canadian Armed Forces serving in the Gulf War. He passed away in April 1999 at the age of 45. The official cause of death was Gulf War Syndrome.

Terry went to the Persian Gulf in December 26, 1990 with honor, dignity and pride - serving his country as Captain J. Terry Riordon of the Canadian Armed Forces. Terry left Canada a very fit man who did cross-country skiing and ran in marathons. On his return only two months later he could barely walk.

He returned to Canada in February 1991 with documented loss of motor control, chronic fatigue, respiratory difficulties, chest pain, difficulty breathing, sleep problems, short-term memory loss, testicle pain, body pains, aching bones, diarrhea, and depression. After his death depleted uranium (DU) contamination was discovered in his lungs and bones.

For eight years he suffered his innumerable ailments and struggled with the military bureaucracy and the system to get proper diagnosis and treatment. His wife, Susan Riordon, speaks most eloquently of the nightmare of physical, mental and emotional hardship endured not just by Terry but his entire family.

http://www.umrc.net/riordon.aspx

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Anyone serving in Iraq...
A friend of mine came home steril from Iraq I.

If you're shipping over, find a sperm bank first.

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ah... we have done so much for our only world and its inhabitants
... I suppose this makes us the good guys... kicked and nominated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Another thing to add on to the list of the Bush crimes against humanity...
....the list just grows and grows...or rather I should say, suffers and dies..... :cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. The way that I understand it is that the dust blows
into the air and carries..
hiley
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. The answer, my friend...
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

--- by Bob Dylan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. yes and all over
the atmosphere..
Nonny,
I love that song.
Thanks,
Hiley
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
10.  reprehensor
Thank you and Dr. Fasy
I have bookmarked this and nominated earlier. Thank you so for trying to bring truth into the light.
hiley

Depleted Uranium Bill Introduced into Congress
The Lone Star Iconoclast
01 June Issue
Washington, DC -

Congressman Jim McDermott (D-WA), a medical doctor, on May 17 introduced legislation with 21 original co-sponsors in the House of Representatives that calls for medical and scientific studies on the health and environmental impacts from the U.S. Military's use of depleted uranium (DU) munitions in combat zones, including Iraq. The McDermott bill also calls for cleanup and mitigation of sites in the U.S. contaminated by DU.
"The need is urgent and imperative for full, fair and impartial studies," McDermott said. "We may be endangering the health and lives of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi civilians. All we've gotten so far from the Pentagon are assurances. We need facts backed by science. We don't have that today."

snip---

"We pretended there was no problem with Agent Orange after Vietnam and later the Pentagon recanted, after untold suffering by veterans. I want to know scientifically if DU poses serious dangers to our soldiers and Iraqi civilians."
The Depleted Uranium Munitions Study Act of 2005 has 21 original co-sponsors, all Democrats, including: Reps. Charles Rangel, Pete Stark, Sherrod Brown, Peter DeFazio, Maurice Hinchey, Raul Grijalva, Jan Schakowsky, Robert Wexler, Sam Farr, Tammy Baldwin, Robert Andrews, Bob Filner, Jay Inslee, Jose Serrano, Lynn Woolsey, Earl Blumenauer, Bart Stupak, Mike Honda, Tom Udall, Barney Frank and Ed Markey.



http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_053005X.shtml



In the last analysis we must be judged by what we do and not by what we believe.
We are as we behave - with a very small margin of credit for
our unmanifested vision of how we might behave if we could take the
trouble.
~Geoffrey L. Rudd,

1962



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. The truth will out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. reprehensor truth will out especially with fine people like you
helping it along..
hiley


"I have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of
their thoughts."
John Locke

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent post reprehensor!
So great that you could post all of Dr. Fasy's presentation.

I have a bit from:
Our Tools of War, Turned Blindly Against Ourselves
by Rob Nixon

Source: Chronicle of Higher Education; 2/18/2005, Vol. 51 Issue 24, pB7, 4p, 2c

snip--

Because depleted uranium carries both a chemical and a radiological
threat, its long-term implications are even more severe. Depleted
uranium, despite that reassuring adjective in its name, possesses 60
percent of natural uranium's radioactivity. Malcolm Hooper, a professor
of medicinal chemistry at the University of Sunderland, in England, has
characterized depleted uranium as "a new weapon for indiscriminate,
mutually assured destruction." During the gulf war alone, U.S. troops
discharged munitions containing 340 tons of depleted uranium. That
contributed significantly, in Hooper's view, to making the gulf war "the
most toxic war in Western military history."

On the eve of the gulf war, the American nuclear scientist Leonard A.
Dietz warned of catastrophic consequences if the United States and its
allies introduced depleted-uranium weaponry to the battlefield. His
prescient appeal was ignored. And the gulf war has left in its wake
radioactive landscapes that will continue, for untold years, to wage
widespread, random warfare.

When Dietz cautioned against integrating depleted uranium into
conventional warfare, his alarm was grounded in experience. During the
late 1970s, he was employed to monitor depleted-uranium levels outside
an Albany, N.Y., factory that produced cannon shells for the Air Force.
New York State authorities, on learning that radiation levels near the
factory had reached 10 times permissible state standards, shut down the
plant. The subsequent cleanup cost more than $100-million.


snip--

Depleted uranium's current military popularity threatens children most
directly: Children are 10 to 20 times more sensitive than adults to
radiation's cancerous effects. Once depleted uranium passes into the
water system, it quickly travels from there into mothers' milk,
gathering concentration as it goes, producing the cancer clusters among
children that we have witnessed in the gulf war's aftermath,
particularly around the heavily bombarded Basra region. The result:
sharp increases in stillbirths and congenitally malformed infants -- in
some areas by more than 250 percent from 1989 to 1999 -- born in and
around Basra. A report on gulf-war veterans from Mississippi noted that
an abnormally high proportion who have attempted to start families have
produced stillborn or malformed infants. Those veterans,
disproportionately minority and disproportionately poor, were never
asked whether they were ready to make that other ultimate sacrifice --
sacrificing in perpetuity the integrity of their DNA.

Persistent link to this record:
http://search.epnet.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=f5h&an=16259284
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. thank you nonny for posting this article..
Edited on Mon Jul-18-05 02:19 PM by hiley
"Depleted uranium, despite that reassuring adjective in its name, possesses 60 percent of natural uranium's radioactivity."

snip---

"the most toxic war in Western military history."

snip---

"The result:
sharp increases in stillbirths and congenitally malformed infants -- in some areas by more than
*250 percent from 1989 to 1999*
-- born in and around Basra."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kraklen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Uranium and its byproducts aren't toxins.
They're toxic substances, very highly toxic in fact. But they are not technically toxins. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Looks like a good presentation otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. "Uranium in soluble form is a kidney toxin."
Fasy is referring specifically to uranium as a kidney toxin;

Uranium is the only radionuclide for which the chemical toxicity has been identified to be comparable to or greater than the radiotoxicity, and for which a reference dose (RfD) has been established to evaluate chemical toxicity. The RfD is an estimate of a daily ingestion exposure to the population, including sensitive subgroups, that is likely to be without an appreciable risk of deleterious effects during a lifetime. Uranium in soluble form is a kidney toxin. The relative risk of uranium kidney toxin effects correspond to the level of exposure to the uranium mass concentrations; the oral RfD of uranium is expressed in terms of mass (0.6µg/kg/day).


Use of Uranium Drinking Water Standards under 40 CFR 141 and 40 CFR 192 as Remediation Goals for Groundwater at CERCLA sites.pdf
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kraklen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Then somebody should tell Dr. Fasy...
he's misusing the word "toxin."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Recommended!
Excellent post.

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC