An aspect of Eric Rudolph that's under-reported is Christian Identity

[laststeamtrain]

http://www.publiceye.org/rightist/rudolph.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph

The most recent FBI terror assessment did NOT deal enough with these and related folks right here in the 'homeland'.

[jobycom]

1. So, should we bomb Christian targets because of his acts?

Seems like, since he's linked to Christian extremism, we should blow up Christian holy sites, like Jerusalem or Ronald Reagan's tomb.

[Igel]

5. Most Xian groups denounce such kinds of activities.

They neither allow their preachers to engage in the kind of hate most of the Christian Identity folks preach, nor allow their members to openly adopt it.

Even most of the churches that I'm aware of that adhere to some version of Anglo-Israelism think that the racist and supremacist nonsense groups like Rudolph's spouted is rank and offensive.

[jobycom]

10. I was parodying

the Congressman who claimed that we should bomb holy sites of Islam if London was bombed by extremist Muslims. Sorry to not be more clear on my sarcasm.

Obviously, most Muslims are against these types of attacks, too.

[Igel]

11. Sorry.

I try to catch parody (hey, I did a thesis on Soviet satire), but sometimes it slips under my radar. Over my radar? ....

[jobycom]

12. Through, perhaps

To radar, it sounds just like the beeps that your radar would normally hear, but it comes in at a different angle. I think.

[GeekMonkey]

21. No, that will just create MORE christian terrorists

These people don't feel like they are accountable to our silly Earth laws. They think this life is just a preparation for an afterlife. No amount of facts can convince them otherwise.

One day, we will have a world where religion is a small, insignificant influencing only a few.

O how I wish that day would come sooner.

[enough]

2. Imagine the acts of "retaliation" that would be generated by this

if he had been an Islamic fundamentalist.

[Sapphire Blue]

3. Fanatic RRW extremism is NOT Christianity... it's important to

... differentiate between the two... and it's also important to stop allowing RRW extremists to continue hijacking Christianity.

[really annoyed]

4. True

Sadly, I think the damage has already been done.

However, it's important not to give up protecting Christians from the crazy people on the right who want to use the religion as a basis for their personal hatred.

[Sapphire Blue]

6. Join the Movement to Reclaim Christianity & Transform American Politics

The Jacksonville Declaration @ the Christian Alliance for Progress:

http://www.christianalliance.org/site/c.bnKIIQNtEoG/b.689007/k.2601/Flash_Movie.htm

[laststeamtrain]

7. I meant specifically Christian Identity which is it's own bizarre thing.

This from the Wikipedia article I linked above:

"Christian Identity is a label applied to a wide variety of loosely-affiliated groups and churches with a racialized theology. Most of them promote a militant white supremacist and neo-Nazi version of Christianity. Their key commonality is British Israelism theology, which teaches that white Europeans are the literal descendants of the Israelites, and that the Israelites are still God's "Chosen People". There are estimated to be about 50,000 adherents of these groups in the United States of America."

No offense intended on my part.

[Sapphire Blue]

8. I understood your point, but disagree w/identifying them as 'Christian'

We have to stop identifying fanatics as 'Christian' or 'Muslim'... they are neither; they are fanatic extremists. Identification w/legitimate religions only serves to denigrate the associated religion.

No offense taken.

[BiggJawn]

9. *We* didn't identify them.

I can't find a name or date for the first person to refer to this movement as "Christian Identity", but I seriously doubt it was some Heathen trying to smear "good" Christians.

"Identification w/legitimate religions only serves to denigrate the associated religion."

I'm sorry, but I see your objection as nothing more than an attempt to distance yourself from these fanatics without actually having to do anything more unpleasant that stating "They're not OUR kind of Christian, so STOP SAYING THAT!"

Guess we could go back to calling them "Anglo-Israelites", but then the posts would be deleted for "Anti-Semitism"...

[Sapphire Blue]

13. Do you propagate the misconception that fanatic extremists are legitimate

representatives of their respective self-proclaimed religions? I do not accept such false representation. Furthermore, I did not indicate that "it was some Heathen trying to smear "good" Christians.", who referred "to this movement as "Christian Identity". IMO, it is the RRW extremists themselves who have done so in an attempt to hijack & distort a faith. And now people of faith are reclaiming their respective faiths from these extremists.

I interpret your comment

I'm sorry, but I see your objection as nothing more than an attempt to distance yourself from these fanatics without actually having to do anything more unpleasant that stating "They're not OUR kind of Christian, so STOP SAYING THAT!"

as belittling. This remark, sir/ma'am, was uncalled for.

[BiggJawn]

14. "Legitimacy" has nothing to do with it.

Who is the arbiter of what is "legitimate" and what is not?
Me? No, and you can agree with that. You? I don't think so.

Who is "legitimate", anyway?
Osamam Bin forgotten? Benny Hinn? Robert Schulyer? Mullah Ohmar? The Ayatollah Sistani? Pat Robertson? Pastor Jones over at the local Methodist Church? The POPE? Billy Graham? Eric Rudolph? Aimee Semple MacPherson?

What does it matter if you or I consider someone "legitimate" or not when I am very sure that in THEIR OWN EYES they are THE most legitimate representative on Earth of what their "God" wants.

And if you found my last comment "belittling", so be it. If it inspires you to DO something besides admonish the rest of us to "... stop identifying fanatics as 'Christian' or 'Muslim'... they are neither; they are fanatic extremists. Identification w/ legitimate religions only serves to denigrate the associated religion.", then it wasn't a wasted effort.

[Sapphire Blue]

15. Do you do anything other than admnonish those standing up for their faith?

You seem to assume quite a bit about me, however, your remarks only inspire me to use the 'ignore' feature.

Have a nice day.

[trotsky]

16. You are more than welcome to stand up for your faith.

However, in doing so you should recognize that one of the fundamental problems in religion is knowing exactly who is "right" and who's not. No god has ever given a clear definitive answer on that one, so people are left to their own interpretations and intuitions.

Were I to sit down with someone in the Christian Identity movement, they would undoubtedly say some of the same things about you that you're saying about them. Sure, I can judge the followers of a religion based on how much they value peace, love, and tolerance. But then those come from outside the religion - in other words, just another set of interpretations and intuitions.

Look up the "No true Scotsman" fallacy sometime.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. VERY enlightening!

Explanation

The No True Scotsman fallacy is an ad hoc usage of definitions.

If you made a claim containing a certain word, for example,

- "All Scotsmen eat their porridge with salt, not sugar",

and someone disproves your claim, for example,

- "My friend Fergus eats porridge with sugar, and he's a Scotsman",

you change the definition of the word to make your claim true by default:

- "Then he's not a Real Scotsman."

[Modem Butterfly]

20. No true liberal would invoke the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

;)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

17. Yo Sapphire...

[GeekMonkey]

22. "Legitimate religion" - thats a hoot

[noamnety]

23. I'll continue to call them Christian Terrorists

precisely because it causes Christians some discomfort. Christians who think an appropriate response to "Muslim Terrorism" is to bomb an entire country because it's primarily Muslim need to be made uncomfortable with having progressives, conservatives, and extremists lumped together as one group.

A certain percentage of Americans are comfortable lumping Muslims together like that because it's so removed from them. If we lump Christians together based on the actions of a few, the stereotyping is made more personal because it hits closer to home. Perhaps right-wingers will be offended by it, and think about why they're offended.

I see it as a strategy to frame things in a way that forces people recognize the parallels.

[Modem Butterfly]

19. They think they're Xians

I think that deciding who is and who isn't a Xian is not a job for me, as a non-Xian. I'm not going to tell someone that they're wrong in describing themselves on anything. But if liberal Xians decided to stand up and say someone isn't a Xian, I certainly wouldn't disagree.

[ComerPerro]

24. Radical Christain extremists

[DFWdem]

25. Maybe because it's false

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-05-rudolph-cover-partone_x.htm

'I prefer Nietzsche to the Bible'

"Many good people continue to send me money and books," Rudolph writes in an undated letter. "Most of them have, of course, an agenda; mostly born-again Christians looking to save my soul. I suppose the assumption is made that because I'm in here I must be a 'sinner' in need of salvation, and they would be glad to sell me a ticket to heaven, hawking this salvation like peanuts at a ballgame. I do appreciate their charity, but I could really do without the condescension. They have been so nice I would hate to break it to them that I really prefer Nietzsche to the Bible."

[beam me up scottie]

26. Wrong. Pay attention, this is old news.

http://www.armyofgod.com/EricRudolphStatement.html

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/terrorists/eric-rudolph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. EGADS - re: armyofgod.com

You can't get much more terrorist than those! Holy shit - they have NO qualms about advocating blowing up shit for "God".

They also urge people to send money to "their" convicted killers. An interesting tidbit: such a thing is legal in the United States but illegal in Australia.

[trotsky]

27. From that same article

Like the Koran to Muslim terrorists, parts of the Bible have been commandeered by her son to justify the unjustifiable, she (Rudolph's mother) says. As she explains, "You can find a scripture in there to suit anything."

I suspect Rudolph is drawn to the libertarian ideas of Nietzsche. Sorry but he's a Christian.