It only makes sense that many here are protecting Clark

[Closer]

with compliments, acceptance and comments of support.


In the week or so that I've been visiting this site, I've noticed pretty much all the candidate's supporters here, mainly Kerry's, saying positive things about Clark, and at the very least, espousing this "acceptance" and "understanding" of Clark's shady background and history. Even Kucinich people, which is really ironic and at first confounded me.

But here is why they're doing it: All the other campaigns saw that Dean was way ahead of the pack and just about ready to run away with the prize. Other campaigns, and their supporters, know that Clark will be the biggest threat to Dean, so they're all reasoning that supporting and speaking highly of Clark will level the playing field, by bringing Dean down, and thus giving other candidates a chance. This holds especially true for the Kerry Camp.

So don't worry Dean supporters. All this Clark "support" and "acceptance" is feigned, except from his rabid supporters *shiver*. I can't say it won't dissipate. But do know that it's all a political move to try and bring down the winner, Dr. Dean.

I say it will fail. But they are a determined bunch.

Politics is just rosy ain't it?

[Toucano]

1. Won't you please

Start a positive Dean thread?

Everyone clearly understands your view of Clark.

[Cappurr]

3. motion seconded

[_NorCal_D_]

61. I third that.

B-)

[Rowdyboy]

2. That's right! You caught us red-handed

All the "Clark" people are :scared: supporters of other candidates uniting as one to defeat the Doctor...

Come off it. I like Dr. Dean, will vote for him if nominated. However, I've waited for Wesley Clark to announce for the last year. You guys have a somewhat overexaggerated sense of self importance.

[Kahuna]

63. Amen..

"You guys have a somewhat overexaggerated sense of self importance."

I couldn't agree with you more.

[Clark Can WIN]

4. No, we're just doing it

To give you the red ass. :thumbsup:

[Exultant Democracy]

20. "RED ASS" ha I love it n/t

[diplomats]

5. Did I miss something?

Are the primaries already over? No won has won anything yet, and there are plenty of undecided primary voters up for grabs.

[Hamlette]

6. let me see if I've got this straight

You claim that Clark supporters are trying to defeat Dean?

Imagine that.

You got a point worthy of discussion?

The problem of spending all your time bringing down the other candidate is some day you may have to go out and work your butt off for him.

Either that you you get four more years of hell.

(Seems like the ones crying the loudest about Clark not being a Dem are the same ones who are threatening to take their marbles and go home if their candidate doesn't win the nomination. What's the diff?)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. I'd vote for Clark before I'd vote for Dean, like most Americans

I'm just an average Democrat (an ass, remember) and I think Clark is a great candidate and has the best chance of beating Bush. Clark is no Dennis Kucinich, that's for sure. If the Clark campaign is smart he'd start shoring up the Dem base by adopting key parts of Kucinich's platform. Remember that Kucinich is the heart of the Democratic party and represents the party line. Clark can't be smeared with the same kinds of attacks that Kucinich can, so it would be safe for Clark to do this.

Dean's campaign has built quite an organization, but there are lots of organizations in the Democratic party, like labor unions for one. I for one resent the Dean people acting as if their new campaign is anything different from yet another Democratic organization, and while you have good numbers, it's not the biggest group in the Democratic party.

I guess Gephardt is pretty damned pissed at Dean calling him "Bush-Lite" - Gephardt, the longest standing pro-union representative of my lifetime - while Dean himself was a conservative governor of a liberal state.

If the primary were to be held tomorrow, Dennis has my vote. It starting to look like a Dean vs. Clark matchup, and in that case I'll take Clark. Two centrist corporate-friendly "New Democrats" - one of which has the national security and foreign policy credentials we need to win the general election.

[unfrigginreal]

11. Oh, don't forget, one is a supporter of Repukes...

and one thinks that they're destroying our country. Of course that won't matter much to people that have only investigated one candidate to ignore.

[diplomats]

18. Clark thinks they're destroying our country

If he didn't, he sure as hell wouldn't be running for president as a Democrat. He'd be backing Bush. And yes, I know about the remarks he made at that fund-raiser 2 1/2 years ago.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

29. Most Democrats I know voted for Republicans at some point

I'm surprised by the number of Democrats who voted for Reagan (I was a kid at the time). Why they did that, I have no idea. To be frank I'm only a Democrat for the platform - if the Democrats were still the segregation party I'd be a Republican. If the Republicans go populist and the Democrats become the Nafta party, I'd go Republican. I'm guessing there's a lot of people like that.

So, does that make me a Repuke?

You see the Dean campaign as a new movement that represents something different than the old Democratic party, but I just see another campaign. I'll give Dean his due - he learned how to work around McCain-Feingold and use the internet right. But it's a one-issue coalition, and the organization has no staying power - why would it, since it's just based on opposition to the war and Dean's personality?

Three months before Bush vs. Dean the GOP stages something and the war propaganda begins again. Dean wouldn't stand a chance. They knew they would lose in 2002 if it was about domestic policy, so they started the war in Iraq. They'll do it to Dean, obviously.

[unfrigginreal]

35. Not surprised that that you would suddenly support a Reagan Democrat...

after all, the media has given you the honorable title of mainstream.

It will be easy for you to ignore the fact that the only candidate in this field that is even trying to buck the tide is Dean. You can ride in on Clarks DLC coattails, and the country won't be any worse for the wear...it won't be any better either, but if you cared about that you'd be looking at a guy that wants real change like Dean!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

43. Dean is a Reagan Democrat, just like Clark

If Dean had been an economic populist as governor, than sure he'd be great. But he was yet another corporate friendly new Democrat just like the rest of them. They went along with the Reagan tide just like everyone else. Dean's from a Wall Street family for Christ's sake!

Reagan's imperialism was unilateral unlike Carter's and Clinton's imperialism, which always had the stamp of approval from NATO and the UN. Big deal. I'm either a moderate swing voter or an almost Green, you decide. I don't buy the anti-war BS from the Democrats anymore than I buy the pro-war BS from the Republicans. Humanitarian reasons for Kosovo? Yeah whatever, I've heard it before. The most laughable hilarious joke in the world is listening to an anti-war Democrat praise JFK - easily one of the most pro-war imperialist interventionists presidents of the modern age. He started Vietnam, how stupid do you think we are?

The main issues the Democrats differ from Republicans on is social issues, Dean and Clark are both fine. Economically both Clark and Dean represent the new Democrat corporate, dare I say Clintonian, DLC faction of the party. Dean's disagreement with the DLC now is strictly strategic - he agrees with the DLC on all the issues, and always has.

So if we're going to throw our support behind a bunch of rich white liberals to get Bush the incompetent and illigitmate out of office, let's just choose the most electable one. Otherwise why not Kucinich or Sharpton or Nader?

[unfrigginreal]

47. Hmmm...I guess the real problem that you have ...

is deciding if Dean is genuine or not. At least that's the feeling that I get from reading your responses...You don't believe Dean when he says that he would seek to repair international differences and use that to seek support for our Iraq quagmire. You don't believe Dean when he says that we should accept civil unions because they are only signifying equal rights for all. You don't believe Dean when he says that the Bush tax cut should be rescinded to offer REAL health care benefits for all. You don't believe Dean when he says that corporations should not be given breaks if it's going to hurt employees.

Of course you can always take the easy way out and vote for a status quo Democrat that has a chance to win.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

54. and Dean is a status quo Democrat with little chance to win

That's my point. Dean will say whatever he has to. So far, in Dean's career, he's given little.

It's true - the DLC doesn't like Dean anymore because they don't think he can win. He still agrees with the DLC on all the issues. What's the difference between Clark and Dean, aside from, you know, Clark being a general and all.

[unfrigginreal]

55. Well, thank God we have Clarks career credentials to bank on!

Let's see, a DLC favorite or a DLC hated politician. Of course you would go with Clark, he and the other status quo Democrats, Kerry,Gephardt, and Lieberman will all be played positively in the press. I don't blame you a bit. I do question whether you really care about the country, and not from a Nader or Kucinich sort of view, but from the view of someone that could REALLY WIN and make a difference. Look at Dean.

[wyldwolf]

57. Wait! A vote for Clark = you don't really care about the country?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

46. "buck the tide" - "real change" - "don't change horses in midstream"

Dean's campaign would be a lot more impressive if it wasn't advertized by this kind of crap.

[unfrigginreal]

48. It never was...and your use of these hits says a lot about you!

n/t

[poskonig]

8. Is Clark a super-independent GOPer

or is he a Demo-establishment lackey? :shrug:

[diplomats]

12. Neither

[poskonig]

13. I'm just pointing out the contradiction.

We can be realistic about Clark without the tinfoil.

[diplomats]

24. Got your point

:)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. I Thought You Weren't Going To Post Here Anymore...

...........

[poskonig]

19. Well, I flipflopped.

:evilgrin:

I'm the nicer, gentler poskonig, now. Though I do have academic work piling up which will keep me away during the weekdays.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. K- I'm Editing My Post

to delete the smarmy remarks....

-:)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

36. good question!

It can't be both can it? Actually it could be true. Clark would be a liberal Republican if it wasn't for two factions in the Republican party - the religious right-wingers, and the Bush gang. I'm sure as a member of the officer corp he'd be happier as a Rockefeller Republican.

And the actual DLC/DNC could be so desperate that they would take a Rockefeller Republican just so they can have a general say "I'm proud to be a Democrat" in public. When Clinton beat Bush, and a working class redneck from Arkansas took the White House from the Bush wannabe royalty, Bush used their moles in the military to trash Clinton, and turn the enlisted guys and white males in general against the Democrats. Clark may be our only hope to fix that.

Let's not fool ourselves about the state of our country. If liberals, progressive populists, social libertarians, and athiests and other non-Christians don't have the military on our side, this fiction of self-government won't last too much longer.

[Droopy]

9. C'mon, Closer

I can tell by the way you express yourself that you're smarter than that. There has been a draft Clark movement going on here for at least three months. A lot of people here were hoping he'd hop in and the reason you're seeing so much stuff about Clark is all the excitement of him jumping in. You should have seen the place before Clark jumped in. It was all about Dean. It was about the excitement he was generating in the party. Maybe if you would have been here sooner you would not have come up with this conspiracy stuff. BTW, I'm backing Kucinich, just so you know where I stand.

[Closer]

16. Not a conspiracy Droopy

Not at all. I'm just observing political behavior and motives. It's as clear as day what's going on.

No conspiracy here.

[Clark Can WIN]

25. Just a little foil

on the top. Quite stylish. :tinfoilhat:

[Closer]

28. Gosh

Are ALL you Clark supporters so childish? Or just most?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. How Clever

Did you get that from Bartlett's book of cliches?

[Closer]

34. Again I ask

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. In My Best Johnnie Cochran Voice

Asked and answered....


Better to quit while you're behind.....

[Clark Can WIN]

42. No dearie

It's Friday night and we are stooping to your level, and by that I do mean you in particular- not the vast majority of Dean supporters who are good and decent company, for the entertainment value only.



:toast:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Another Master Baiter

Try I D Glide.......

I hear it's the best......

[Pastiche423]

15. I agree w/you

It will fail. I believe many people are too hungry for a new direction. The tracks need deperately to be switched while slowing down the direction of imperial locomotive.

We need a true blue conductor, prepared to take over the train to democracy, not an unprepared empty suit uniform w/bells and whistles.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Character Assassin]

17. Awwwww.... a psychic. How quaint.

All this Clark "support" and "acceptance" is feigned, except from his rabid supporters.

I see a dark stranger in your future.

Now pay more.

Say hi to Ms. Warwick.

[diplomats]

23. LOL!

BTW, Character Assassin, I haven't seen you in these parts lately. Welcome back (that is, if you ever left)!

[Character Assassin]

59. Been prepping a career change, but I've been about.

Saving the terminally ignorant from their anti-libertarian phantasies, mostly.

[wyldwolf]

21. Another "Dean supporters are persecuted" thread...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. The Irony Is Richer Than A Cheesecake From Juniors.....

I'm sure the New Yorkers here will get the reference.....

Some of the Dean folks relentlessly bait the Clark supporters than when they respond they call them rabid or bullies or brownshirts or militarists....

It reminds me of the kid who kills his parents and then throws himself on the mercy of the court because he's an orphan....

[Padraig18]

30. Personally...

... I'd like to remind some of my fellow Dean supporters that we need not tear down the other candidates to advance Howard! This petty, juvenile back-biting is doing the RNC's work for them.

Let's grow up, shall we? I think America deserves at least that much! :)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. That's Why I Said "Some" Of The Dean Folks

I try to be respectful towards everybody but I will not let any bash go unanswered ....

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

33. Wonder Woman would have voted for Clark...

... she helped fight WWII.

(reference to her avatar.)

[OKNancy]

38. When Dean or DK or Kerry

are on C-Span, I try to watch so I can learn. I wonder if "closer" watched Clark tonight. He sounded like a bleeding heart liberal to me.

[wyldwolf]

41. I wish these people would just be honest and admit a few things..

..that they hate military service and think anyone that was apolitcal all their lives can't declare themselves a democrat. The democratic party isn't a "life long member or you're not included" club.

[Renew Deal]

44. Your inexperience at DU shows.

Not that I am a great vet, but you have to be kidding.
:dunce:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. yeah but you're famous

20,000,000 dittoheads know of bleachers


-:)

[wyldwolf]

50. THAT is for sure...

She's probably used to being the alpha, politically speaking, in her circle of friends and family.

At DU, 30,000 are competing for the Alpha role!

[JanMichael]

49. Wrong about me. I've been both critical and complementary.

I don't have a horse in this race either.

[union_maid]

51. Closer has to be a ringer

I haven't been here all that long myself, so I tend to stay out of these personal things, but if Closer is really a Deanie, I'll eat my Birkenstocks. Bet closer doesn't even own a pair. :hippie:

[GOPBasher]

52. So it can't be that we just actually like Clark?

I actually really like Clark, and I think he'd make a great President, which is why I'm supporting him. The same reason you're supporting Dean. Of course, if Dean gets the nomination, I'll be behind him 100% -- he'd be 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% better than Bush*.

[59millionmorons]

58. How dare you

Supporting someone because you just like him (sarcasm on)

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LiberalTexan]

56. Your theory WOULD hold true except.........

The pundits are saying that Clark and Dean are two separate breeds of cat and that Clark will most likely be pulling voters from Kerry, Gephardt and Edwards. I even heard that on NPR today. And, David Corn from The Nation magazine was agreeing. It doesn't look like Dean will be the candidate to get hurt from this announcement of Clarks.

[rman]

60. except for all the "Dean for prez, Clark for vice prez"

(and the other way around)

So they aren't seen as separate breeds of cat by many.

Actually the Dean+Clark thing does fit Closer's theory, making Clark more acceptable to Deanies and other supporters of non-DLC candidates.

[leetrisck]

62. When you trash Clark, you are trashing

our military and I feel that's what the Repukes are doing - Trashing our military & vets all the time. Every candidate in the Democratic field is better than the Repukes could even begin to imagine.