You don't go after a guy's wife to get back at a guy.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

That's a big under-the-surface reason the American people
are already turning against bushroveco.

Plus, as with Watergate, this event would be bad enough
even if it were an isolated event.

But also as with Watergate,
this event is merely a boil on a body that is rotten through
and through.

When the Watergate investigators started looking
at the break-in, they began to explore the whole rotten corpus
of the Nixon Administration.

Same with the body of bushroveco--
a rotten festering bloated beast packed with corruption from
head to toe.

Fitzgerald realizes by now that he is dealing with
crimes and coverups that threaten not just rove or libby but the
whole house of rotten bloody evil that is bushroveco.

[Not_Giving_Up]

1. You don't talk about a guy's mother either

But Cheney talked about Howard Dean's mother.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

2. I think this one might be just a leeetle big bigger than that one.

[evlbstrd]

3. This is gonna blow volcanic political pus

that will reverberate through history. I hope the nation can withstand it.

[Not_Giving_Up]

5. True

I'm just saying...they break all of the rules.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

7. Correcto, and so far theyve gotten away with it.

So far.

[The Mafia Squirrel]

6. One thing I'm impressed by

It's been frontpage news three days running here in reddest red state Idaho and the local paper hasn't been kind. They're not running pro-Bu$hCo editorials anymore, down to a little feeble trickle. Todays headline implicated Libby. I did a little dance, I'm white and uncoordinated, it wasn't pretty, but it was enthusiastic.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

9. Yes, and now with the public's appetite stoked

every little new piece of rot is going to be instantly
all over the news everywhere. Fitzgerald guarding
the process & giving no press conferences etc guarantees
this ongoing & growing hunger. Yum yum!

[CAcyclist]

50. LOL

Welcome to DU, Mafia Squirrel:hi:

[The Mafia Squirrel]

61. Aw shucks

Thanks!

[The Mafia Squirrel]

62. Aw shucks

Thanks!

[CAcyclist]

63. You're Welcome ! nt

[punpirate]

10. Well, I'm sorry, but...

... by that standard, I'd have to stop berating Barbara Bush. :)

She of the "beautiful mind" deserves a little bad press.

Cheers.

[ObaMania]

15. Yeah, these f#@kers pull every dirty trick in the book..

.. and these are two examples of re :puke: 's at their dirtiest.

[Tom Kitten]

4. yeah but we're talking reptiles here...

they'd eat their own children if they saw the need to...

totally cold blooded with eyes of death.

[EFerrari]

8. We should push this. Because they do go after the wife,

the adopted child (McCain), the mother.

It's not even an exaggeration. They do that, literally.

That's what bullies do, as nicknameless pointed out yesterday. Not what statesmen do, not what leaders do.

[alfredo]

38. I posted comments on this earlier. It fell like a rock.

I think it could be a good way to frame this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4136664&mesg_id=4136664

[A-Schwarzenegger]

39. Ashamed to say I dont read LTTE posts, but yours is a good one.

Boom, to the point.

You asked about the first paragraph.
I'd just cut it, start with "It (is/was} a cowardly act.."

[alfredo]

49. Thanks. I read some to see how people are framing issues.

Sometimes posting them helps me to see if the letter has merit, or is just BS.

[WCGreen]

11. You do if you ain't got nothin'

Or your a pussy.....

[REP]

12. Their Misstep, This Time, Was Getting the Press Burned

Oh, I don't mean because of any noble principles of truth, or even of freedom of the press or journalistic integrity. What I'm talkng about is what Matt Taibbi was talking about, how the press corps is like high school, with the big-name papers being the popular clique. Judith Miller and Matt Cooper are in the popular clique, and as soon as they started taking heat (and in Miller's case, jail time), the press - especially the White House press corps - started acted like real journalists again. And now with Rover sayin (among other things) his source was a reporter ... well, there's a chance they've pissed off enough of the press enough to tae it personally, and not let it drop.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

13. With the press turning, everything is lined up against them.

[Enraged_Ape]

56. Their biggest mistake was throwing a loyal Bushbot to the dogs

Judith Miller has faithfully carried the BFEE water since Day One, and look what happened to her. Loyalty to George Bush goes one way: You better be loyal to him, but he is under no circumstances required to be loyal to you, and he would just as soon see you fry as look at you. I think the jailing of Miller has FINALLY gotten the fawning presslings to realize that.

[auburngrad82]

14. Organized crime does it, why shouldn't the "family" do it?

There are more criminals, convicted or otherwise, in the Bush administration than in any other administration in American History. It's just another crime family. Why should we expect them to behave any differently?

[rosesaylavee]

16. they were desperate that's why

Bullies have a very limited agenda... they need what they need when they need it. It worked in the past and the CM and the political crowd were too cowed or bought out to say boo. I think (ok hope) that they would have stopped at hurting a child to get their way but we may never know now. Ain't that grand?

I would be interested to know if the press corps all got together and decided to grow a collective spine. Strength in numbers sort of strategy. That will make an interesting story when this is over - look for it on the NYT bestseller list.

[tblue37]

35. They went after McClain's adopted child, too,

so, no, they would not have stopped at going after a child.

[rosesaylavee]

37. Ok so there you have it

They are slugs. How could I have thought so highly of them?

[DanCa]

17. This has got to be one of the lowest things i have ever seen

Putting a man's wife in danger for political again. How can these people claim there for protecting innocent life is beyond me.

[Stephanie]

18. that's right - everybody can see that

People don't like to see something like that. It's low-down and dirty and dishonorable.

[mtnester]

19. Quite honestly, I am slightly concerned with Fitzgerald and his

oh man, how do I say this...OK..."health and well being"

Anyone else?

[indepat]

20. We don't but Repukes do

[mattclearing]

21. Well, if Fitzgerald sees the defense contracts, the conflicts of interest,

and the falsified case for war, and comes to the conclusion that there was a massive fraud perpetrated on the American people, then all hell would certainly break loose.

[electron_blue]

22. You got that right

Much less, put her in possible harm's way. I think this is a big issue that is understood by many Americans, but not talked about yet.

[bonzotex]

23. It never made much sense to out Valerie Plame anyway...

The 800lb gorilla in the room is why Rove, Cheney and the White House handlers outed Valerie Plame in the first place?

It wasn't going to shut up or discredit Wilson. They knew this guy, his history and bio. They knew he wouldn't roll over and take it like a good Republican whore.

It wasn't going to screw him over. His beloved wife gets to spend more time at home and she could stop hiding her real job.

It wasn't very good misdirection to take the heat off serious scrutiny of the lies to War. The press was already lapping up Bushco's spin.

It wasn't going to divert attention from the White House's selective and questionable use of intelligence. It actually put the spotlight more on the decision making tree at the White House.

The only rationale that makes sense is that it was an opportunity to shut down Valerie Plame and torpedo any investigations she was working on. This is not being discussed in any real way during this "scandal". Valerie was the target here, not Joe Wilson. I think Bushco is relying on the CIA to keep her projects under a shroud of secrecy so the real reason she had to be torpedoed will never come out.

Let's hope there are some patriots at the CIA that won't let this die.

[tabasco]

27. Because they were desperate to launch the Iraq war.

There were billions of dollars at stake for Halliburton and the other profiteers. The PNAC agenda of world domination was at stake.

This is a case of greed and arrogance overcoming good sense.

I hope it causes the downfall of his evil and corrupt regime.

[bonzotex]

29. Was Valerie investigating the Corporate Money ties?

It would appear her "cover" at Brewster Jennings was about tracking money flow in the Middle East Oil biz. Maybe she was getting a little too close to the Corporations and Saudi princes that were licking their chops over Iraq war profits?

[tabasco]

34. Wilson was exposing Bush's Niger yellowcake fraud.

During the lead up to the war, Bush, Condi ("we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"), etc. wanted the gullible to believe Saddam had nukes or was working on them.

Wilson exposed the hoax.

The fearmongers couldn't stand it.

They only went after Plame to hurt Wilson.

[bonzotex]

43. I still think there is more to it,,,

I think it's worse than just petty revenge.

Wilson was exposing just one small part of the carpet of WMD lies that the Admin was rolling out. They could have just admitted that the yellowcake sale evidence in that particular instance was weak and bulldozed on with all the other "evidence". They could have just said Wilson didn't talk to the right people, blah blah...Saddam wanted nukes etc. That is what they did anyway. Why out Valerie Plame just to discredit Wilson? As it turns out, it didn't discredit him at all but rather kept the story smoldering.

It was a big risk for little if any reward. Why do it? Maybe it was just a dumb vindictive move by Rove and company? If the goal was not solely to discredit Wilson but rather shut up and neutralize Valerie Plame then it starts to make more sense.

I'm not a big conspiracy buff, but there is more here and more people involved with other motives than just Karl and Scooter being nasty bitches. Valerie Plame is not talking to the press, but she has a story and I predict we'll hear it as part of the indictments in this case.

[CAcyclist]

51. To Stop Other CIA Agents From Leaking Evidence About The Bush Admin.

I can't remember the editorial but I read that conclusion today and I think it's the most likely one.

[bonzotex]

52. That makes sense too....

Consider how Bushco has rushed in idealogues into the CIA following Tenet's departure. They are trying to keep a lid on the CIA. Somebody knows way too much.

[anarch]

41. greed and arrogance taken to amazing new levels

"This is a case of greed and arrogance overcoming good sense."

That strikes me as a decent assessment of the entire PNAC agenda.

[Enraged_Ape]

58. Give bonzotex a prize

You are, of course, absolutely right. This whole slimy project was designed to shut down an intelligence-gathering operation that could determine the real truth about Bush's phony WMD claims. When Wilson (and presumably, his wife) demonstrated that honesty was more important than war, it was time to shut them BOTH down. I have no doubt that the next step was to PLANT weapons in Iraq, but for some reason that never panned out.

Bush, Cheney, et al were trying to close the eyes and ears of our global WMD intelligence so that they could get their war on. It's just obvious. Any other explanation as to why they did this to the Wilsons is at best porous and at worst ridiculous.

[tx_dem41]

24. Does that mean comments on DU about "Pickles" are verboten? n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. And that compares with outing a CIA agent how?

One is knocking a person who repeatedly claims to not want to be in the political spotlight then defends Rove...the other is putting an agent and everyone she ever worked with in danger....so I am simply curious about how you could draw any comparison. :shrug:

[tx_dem41]

31. Just responding to the title of the OP......

I agree that one is worse than the other. But, both share a certain classlessness that reflects on the user, nonetheless.

[The_Mule]

25. "Political Terrorism"...

to coin a term.

Just as physical terrorists target "civilians" to generate fear to use as leverage to push their agenda, so has the Bush administration targeted wives, mothers, and children to push their agenda.

[tk2kewl]

26. Family Values... Sanctity of Marriage

very good angle

[Stephanie]

30. It's About the Most Cowardly Thing You Can Do

And that's the bottom line and the thread that ties all these chickenhawks together - COWARDS, every one.

[librechik]

32. yeah,first you say that, then you say "A REAL MAN would fire Roveski"

hit em with the ol one two.

[dogday]

33. There is always one reporter who asks about

how this has affected the Wilson Family? Scott does not want to even hear that question. The question alone is so damaging.

[ComerPerro]

36. To me, the Plame thing is all about one thing: They lied about WMD

Rove felt the need to exact vengeance because Wilson exposed the lies

[ComerPerro]

40. Cowards do. Look what they did to Hillary

[Canuckistanian]

42. Rove said she was 'fair game' because Wilson donated to Dems

So he brought it on himself.

[IChing]

44. REVENGERERS A NEW MAGAZINE

[A-Schwarzenegger]

57. Yeah!

[maveric]

45. Bumper sticker from 70's "Nixon is a Dirty Cox Sacker".

[mondo joe]

46. A Low Point Even for the GOP Mafia.

[blogslut]

47. Yes

This is THE talking point.

They went after the man's wife.

Try it. Please, everyone.

[Fleshdancer]

48. Exactly...

Also, if you have no honor, no sense of respect, and no character that would lead you to attack a man's wife for political revenge (or for any reason) or to cover for a "friend" who has, then take off the cowboy boots, the buckle, and the hat because a grown man playing dress-up is just embarrassing. Cowboys, real cowboys, would never put up with this dishonorable bs.

All hat and no cattle.

[Disturbed]

53. It was a two-fer.

Discredit Wilson and neutralize Valerie Plame's covert Op.

[Hubert Flottz]

54. You might not...but Nazis and the mafia did!

You aren't dealing with people that are on the up and up or law abiding! You are dealing with thives and murderers.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

55. Yes, the Amer. people will put up with thieves & murderers in the WH,

but they draw the line at going after a guy's wife.
That's my point.

[Hubert Flottz]

60. It's a very good point!

But the sad part is it's the damned truth. Most people don't put forth the effort to look any farther than the end of their noses for "Truth". If they hear it on TV, it's the gospel truth to them! WE are in DEEP DOO-DOO, because we've all been doped and duped by the propaganda wing of corporate America!

It really isn't nice to torture, rape and kill, defenseless, unarmed, prisoners, but but Americans stood by and did, or said anything about that either, because it never cost them a dime, or never threatened they're family directly! We have a huge block of people in the US, who are numb from the neck up! Headupyourassedness, is taking it's toll on civilized conduct in America and It's from the top down just like Abu Ghraib was.

[Blue_In_AK]

59. This is exactly the point

I was making to my husband last night. He was expressing concern that with the upcoming SCOTUS nomination, etc. that the Rove issue would slip away, just as the stolen elections, Gannon, DSM, etc. etc. seem to have done. But my opinion is that now that people are beginning to see that the ** administration has clearly lied and attempted to cover up this issue of the leak of Ms. Wilson's name, they will be much more receptive to all that has gone before. Maybe people had difficulty getting their minds around the idea that ** could have stolen two elections or could have manufactured intelligence to justify his invasion of Iraq...maybe they thought all those "rumors" were too outrageous, were just Democratic spin, the whining of "sore losers"...but I don't see how anyone but the most partisan rabid right-wingers could dispute the fact that the WH has lied and lied and lied in its attempt to cover up this leak. It makes everything else seem so much more plausible -- indeed, probable. Thankfully we have had a lot of media coverage on this -- so EVERYBODY knows. We need to keep reminding people of all the other scandals so that the enormity of the "big picture" emerges.