Ladies ,

[proud patriot]

They want us to die , Pregnant

You know it

I know it

Remember the way it was

We walked the walk

We won the fight

They must be told

We won't go BACK

[cornermouse]

1. Sane women need not apply.

They need to make it into a sign and hang it on the White House gates.

[peekaloo]

2. As a kid when people spoke of the 21st century it seemed so full

of promise and advancement.......who knew we were going backward the whole time?

:cry:

[understandinglife]

3. Nominated. And, what Bush just did will galvanize and expand those ...

... seeking his removal from office and the indictment and prosecution of all the criminals in his administration.

He did not distract; he just intensified the opposition.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Sannum]

4. Women of my generation are too concerned with their nails to fight.

It scares me. There is no resistance anymore. They want to go back to the days of back-alley abortions. They want women who have had botched abortions to die. We are "sinners" in their eyes.

[wildflower]

30. Most young people don't seem to realize how it was back then...

I wonder, will women have to go through this struggle over and over every 30 years, as people start to forget again?

Just like with war.

I guess that is history; it tends to go in cycles.

I worry for our future.

-wildflower

[proud patriot]

35. I found this timeline

1972: Eisenstadt v. Baird Supreme Court decision establishes the right of unmarried people to use contraceptives.

1973: Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision strikes down state laws that made abortion illegal.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/history_abortion.html#timeline

[Carni]

41. OK now I feel REALLY stupid

I am 40 and didn't know about the below:

1972: Eisenstadt v. Baird Supreme Court decision establishes the right of unmarried people to use contraceptives.

FOR REAL? How the hell did they regulate THAT?

[MaraJade]

67. Easy--

I am over 50 and I do know that back then in some places a person had to show their marriage certificate to purchase contraceptives or to get the pill. Fantastical, but all too true. It happened to my big sis (who is now in her sixties).

Funnily enough, it was 1972 when the miscegenation laws (which prohibited marriage between persons of differing races) were also
struck down.

[wildflower]

69. That's a good site; thanks. These snips are interesting:

Abortion Was Legal

Abortion has been performed for thousands of years, and in every society that has been studied. It was legal in the United States from the time the earliest settlers arrived. At the time the Constitution was adopted, abortions before "quickening" were openly advertised and commonly performed.

Making Abortion Illegal

In the mid-to-late 1800s states began passing laws that made abortion illegal. The motivations for anti-abortion laws varied from state to state. One of the reasons included fears that the population would be dominated by the children of newly arriving immigrants, whose birth rates were higher than those of "native" Anglo-Saxon women.

snip

The Medical Establishment

The strongest force behind the drive to criminalize abortion was the attempt by doctors to establish for themselves exclusive rights to practice medicine. They wanted to prevent "untrained" practitioners, including midwives, apothecaries, and homeopaths, from competing with them for patients and for patient fees.

The best way to accomplish their goal was to eliminate one of the principle procedures that kept these competitors in business. Rather than openly admitting to such motivations, the newly formed American Medical Association (AMA) argued that abortion was both immoral and dangerous. By 1910 all but one state had criminalized abortion except where necessary, in a doctor's judgment, to save the woman's life. In this way, legal abortion was successfully transformed into a "physicians-only" practice.

[fortyfeetunder]

44. They don't want to relive the 1960's all over again.

Dayum, it was painful to live through it then. Maybe these young'uns think they are immune to pain.

Don't you feel a draft?

[Pacifist Patriot]

56. What is your generation?

I'm in my mid-thirties and surrounded by women who are terrified that Roe v. Wade will be overturned. We're more than ready to mobilize!

[kestrel91316]

62. Hell, maybe we should give them what they want ...............

but be careful, little bimbos, you may get more than you bargained for. I am not in a position to be bothered by the overturning of Roe v. Wade now (too old), but the mindless twits who know the names of all the reality tv shows are going to get a BIG dose of reality for themselves if they don't WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[CrispyQ]

5. WE WON'T GO BACK!

I told my mother who voted for boosh, if Roe v Wade gets reversed, I'll never forgive her for voting for that asshole.

I fear many young women have taken for granted what we know was a hard, long battle to obtain the right over our own bodies. Unfortunately, that old saying about knowing history & being doomed to repeat it is very true.

I swear, I don't even recognize this country anymore. These assholes are dismantling all the good things that have been accomplished over the past 40 years.

[proud patriot]

8. I made a bet w/ bush voting pro choice "friend"

she bet me bush wouldn't try to overturn
Roe v. Wade ....one dollar.

I still don't want to win the bet

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

28. Me too: I've never been so sorry to win a bet

[bryant69]

6. Actually it is interesting to consider what woudl happen -

I presume that their goal would be to return it ot a state by state issue? At least that's what some of htem have claimed. So some states would continue to have legal abortion and other states would not (or would have severe restrictions on it). The upshot of it is that the wealthy and even many in the middle class would still be able ot drive acros the border and get an abortion, but those of limited means wouldn't? I don't know. Maybe they would succeed in outlawing it everywhere.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[bloom]

12. Maybe the country would get more divided up

with liberals just moving to blue (abortion access) states and Republicans moving to red states. :shrug:

[Celeborn Skywalker]

18. The problem with that

is many working class young women in the red states won't have the option to go out of state and will be forced to do the back alley abortions that killed so many women before Roe.

[bloom]

22. that's true

that would be a result.

[The Flaming Red Head]

36. The ones from the rabidly right wing fundie families

are going to be the ones most likely to go back alley if roe gets reversed. Let's see what happens when they bury their daughters, sisters, and wives.

[eleny]

7. Worst fears

[Swamp Rat]

9. I am with you!

I will fight for your right to choose! FOREVER!!! :mad:

[proud patriot]

11. Thanks Swamp Rat

:loveya:

[Swamp Rat]

19. Way'at proud patriot!

If you look in GD, you will find DUers who think Roberts is not so bad... I wonder if they are women? How do feel that other, so called progressives, can so freely bargain your rights away? ... rhetorical question ... I am fighting mad right now - I had to erase what I was originally going to say... I can only imagine how you and other women feel. :mad:

Look for me in the coming flame wars concerning this subject. :mad:

[proud patriot]

23. why that pisses me off Friend

My Constitutional Rights are not Negotiable .

[Swamp Rat]

27. I am so fucking pissed

I keep scanning GD and finding apologists for Roberts, false assurances, and in general, more weak-kneed liberalism.

Maybe I should go away for a while before I start cussing out others... oh wait, Mike Malloy is coming on in about an hour.

[proud patriot]

29. Ya got to stay for Malloy

:hug:

[Lecky]

10. Don't they need 1 more pro-lifer besides Roberts to overturn Roe v. Wade?

I disagree with whoever said above that women wouldn't fight. I know all my pro-choice republican idiot friends who voted for Bush will now switch teams (they didn't think it would ever be overturned). This could turn a lot of states blue...

I still don't think the SC will overturn it, they wouldn't DARE...

[Carni]

50. No, Roberts would tip the scales BUT

68% of the public is polling that they don't want Roe overturned so the outrage in this country would be vast if it happened.

I am the eternal pessimist but in my personal gut opinion they wouldn't have the stupidity.

[aaronnyc]

61. I'm pretty certain that they need two more

First off, I agree with you that most Republicans don't really want Roe v. Wade to be overturned. It would be politically devastating for them.

But I am pretty certain that the only justices who want Roe v. Wade overturned are Scalia, Thomas, and Rehnquist. Roberts would presumably make it 4 justices in favor of overturning of abortion rights. However, the Supreme Court would still be 5-4 pro-choice. Bush needs another pro-choice justice to resign to have of reversing Roe v. Wade.

[MountainLaurel]

60. Yeah, but

Rehnquist isn't going to last much longer, and that'll make the last seat.

[EOTE]

79. Wrong.

Rehnquist already wants to overturn Roe. Replacing one anti-choice justice with another won't help overturn Roe one bite.

[MountainLaurel]

80. Ahh, thanks.

I was thinking in terms of the question the poster asked -- that's what I get for posting late in the day.

[ismnotwasm]

13. No, we won't n/t

[roguevalley]

14. I'm so old I remember when divorce was illegal in America. No

going back, young ones. Never. No surrender.

[China_cat]

21. You mean when divorce was illegal for American women.

Men have always had the option of getting rid of their 'whorish' wives. What with controlling the finances, the cops, the courts, the legislatures.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Oh no...this is a fight I will fight

til the day I die. I will not go back to back alley abortions. Dirty clothes hangers. Doctors with filthy dirty instruments or Having to leave the country to get an abortion. It's just not going to happen.

[MidnightWind]

16. The really terrifying part? Some of these mofos believe

that ALL birth control should be illegal, including bc pills. Oh God. I weep for my country.

[proud patriot]

24. Some ? Assume All and Welcome Underground MidnightWind

Slippery slope

[kestrel91316]

63. Scary little factoid: these are the same folks who own ..............

all the VOTING MACHINES!!!!!

[BrklynLiberal]

17. It is not merely Roe v. Wade they are after........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4140695

[Coexist]

20. On the shoulders of Giants

This generation of women coming up now has lived their lives standing on the shoulders of giants. They didn't know a time before - when the world wasn't their oyster, and choices didn't exist for most women. The fact that they have come of age up there, and have the audacity to whine about the view infuriates and confuses me.

They show no respect for the women whose personal lives were ruined by jealous men so that they could live in a country where a career choice didn't mean secretary or teacher (and only until you got married). Who died in agony after botched abortions. Who put their lives, and the lives of their families on hold to march in the streets for the right to vote, to play sports - whatever sport they chose, to stay home or to work - with respect for both positions. Women who fought for their right to have a family when they chose, and have the number of children they wanted - when they were ready for them.

They are in for a rude awakening - and I will be there with an outstretched hand to help them up after the conservatives have knocked them down. They will need us, and they will join the fight when their eyes finally open. No one who is used to having so much will be happy with the little they will be expected to be grateful for. Here's hoping we will all stand up there together some day, on top of the accomplishments of Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Ida B. Wells-Barnett, Alice Stone Blackwell, Anna Howard Shaw and Carrie Chapman Catt, Alice Paul, Margaret Sanger, Betty Friedan, and all the others, and be awestruck by the magnificent view.

[kestrel91316]

64. I owe the Giants my entire career ..............

as a female veterinarian, I am in a profession which was, until very recently, completely dominated by men. When I graduated from veterinary school in 1982, mine was only the THIRD class that had more than the token one or two women in it (and those were the whipping boys). Now, most vet schools graduate classes that are 60+ percent women. I recall the early years of my career when clients would say with real venom "I want the MAN doctor" after wasting 15 minutes of my efforts in the exam room. I recall countless comments like "I've never HEARD of a WOMAN vet!" (typically followed by laughter not of the kind type). These things happened in the 1980's, kiddies. Misogyny is only very slightly below the surface still. Most of these hateful cranks are STILL ALIVE AND VOTING.

My career would never have come about without the civil rights movement of the 60's and the requirement that professional schools stop discriminating against women (it was a SC decision that changed things). Now they want to turn back the clock. I guess they don't want we women competing against them in schools or the workplace.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[Coexist]

74. these are the stories that young women need to hear.

thanks for your part in the struggle. My daughter is being raised to be grateful to all of you front-liners.

[kestrel91316]

98. Here is another vet story for your daughter ..............

When I was in high school, in 1973, we had a career day where various businesspeople and professionals came to the HS and we got to talk to them about their careers. I and several other young women spent our time with a veterinarian (male, there WERE no females) from the community. I became quite enthused about this as a possible career for me. When this same vet advertised for kennel help in his clinic a while later, I went to apply for this entry-level job to see if I was truly interested in being a vet. The vet took my application, spent a while interviewing me, discussed what the job entailed, then told me "I'm sorry, I can't hire you. This is a BOY'S JOB." I was shocked, and told him that I planned to go to veterinary school, that I was serious about the profession, that I felt I should work in the field to gain valuable experience. He said "That's ridiculous. Girls don't go to veterinary school. If they did, they would just quit after graduation and get married and have a family. They would be taking up the space that a man should get." I thanked him and left.

I went to college, received a BS in microbiology in 4 years at a top university and at the same time completed my prerequisites for veterinary school. I applied to veterinary school at that same top university, and got in the very first time (this is almost unheard of due to competition). I received my DVM in 1982. I never ONCE doubted my ability to do these things. You see, my parents always told me that I should NEVER let anybody else tell me what I could and couldn't achieve. I was the only judge of that. I think they must have been the very first feminists I encountered, though they would not have called themselves such.

That small-minded veterinarian never knew what I did. But as his profession changed rapidly over the subsequent 10 years, I can only hope that he felt like a complete jerk. That's the most charitable thing I can call him. He remains anonymous.

[Eloriel]

92. No, they'd rather not have women competing against them

I remember a comment by a friend of mine that really put things in perspective for me. It was about a decade ago and I was telling her about a pathetic middle aged man I was on a writing contract with who had been outsourced from BellSouth, I think it was, after most of his work life there. He was quite bitter (and I didn't blame him for that). Anyway, my friend remarked that he was probably one of those guys who would have had good, cushy lifelong careers were it not for the fact that he had to compete with women, some of whom were his betters.

Think about it.

My story (which may be a repeat for some since I've told this several times recently): When I was in h.s. back in the 1960s, I wanted to be a concert musician. I was in the h.s. band and was pretty good -- good enough to be recruited and given scholarship, stipend, student loan and a job by a state university for their music program. I had to turn it down because I couldn't stand the thought of teaching music (or anything), and that was the only music career open to women at the time. We simply weren't allowed into the musicians' unions OR the better symphonies and orchestras. Happily, he came right back and said I could still have all that if I just minored in music, took private lessons as 1 hour a semester, and was in the band. It was a dream come true, except the career part of course.

Sometime in the late 70s I saw a segment on 60 Minutes or similar show about a West Coast symphony conducting its auditions behind a screen so that the internalized "bias" against women musicians as "not as good as men" couldn't work against us. Women were finally being allowed into professional organizations. Too late for me, but not for the women who came after. (God, I just reached for a cigarette. I haven't smoked since Dec. 10.)

What I always have found so remarkable about my own story is that back then we didn't THINK to QUESTION "the way things were." We just accepted it. Of course, a number of my sisters DID start questioning c. 1968 (I graduated h.s. in 1965), and I joined them in the mid 1970s.

Some of the other things that were true for women back then, mid-60s included:

* sex-segregated want ads --
and the ONLY jobs for women were secretary, bookkeeper, clerk, "Girl Friday," nurse, teacher, domestic help. I myself was constitutionally incapable of being any of those, which is why my 2nd career choice (after music) was to be an advertising copywriter, since Mary Wells had done so well for herself and it seemed advertising was a little more female-friendly. I was thinking to myself the other day that the women's movement actually gave me a life. I am not sure I could've retained my sanity HAVING to work in any of those fields, or be a stay-at-home wife and mom. It makes me nearly insane to contemplate it.

* the pill had barely been invented, but was gaining wider use. I got MY first prescription from Planned Parenthood in 1967, I think it was. My regular doctor wouldn't prescribe them for me -- he was Catholic. I think it's difficult for today's young women to understand how incredibly restricted women were, not just sexually but in their own lives aside from that. If you have no control of when you conceive, and you have no control over whether you carry that pregnancy to term, you really have not much control over your life as a whole: you are ALWAYS at the mercy of your reproductive capabilities, unless you simply choose to be celibate or reach menopause.

* Women couldn't get credit in their names

* Women couldn't rent an apartment without a male (father? brother?) co-signing, and definitely couldn't own property

* Assumptions about the way women "should" behave -- and the societal sanctions when they didn't live up to those ideas -- were severe and VERY restrictive.

* There weren't any women role models in positions of authority and responsibility.
This is an under-rated problem, I think. As women started discovering feminism and the women's LIBERATION movement, we realized that the options were more open to us than we'd ever dreamed possible. BUT WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT, how we could be. Our only role models in business, for example, were BUSINESSMEN. That's why some women because copycats of men -- it was the only role model. We had to work to discover (and haven't fully succeeded yet) in discovering the "authentic feminine" in all facets of life. The flip side of that is that it wasn't POSSIBLE for some women to succeed (e.g., in the business world) by being whatever was "the authentic feminine" since men were only used to other MEN, and had not much use for different models of human beings that women presented. It's not quite so bad now, but I'm always a little annoyed with criticism of women who have modeled men in their striving to succeed since there were good reasons for doing so and even strong negatives (e.g., failure) for some of them if they didn't. Things are very much better than at first in this realm, but by no means "fixed" or perfect.

[Coexist]

95. What a story -

I clearly remember being told - in 4th grade, when we got to choose band instruments at school - that I COULD NOT play the saxophone. It was a boy's instrument. I should play the flute or clarinet instead. I didn't know enough to be angry. I played the clarinet.

Your insights are fantastic. Thanks for sharing.

[Eloriel]

96. what year was that?

I played clarinet too, btw! They shoved me into clarinet instead of flute because they had too many flutists at the time. It was fine. I learned to love it.

[Coexist]

97. I don't know the year - I will be 40 next year

so probably 1975. Geesh I'm old!

[beam me up scottie]

68. I am in awe.

That was a hell of a post.

Here's hoping we will all stand up there together some day, on top of the accomplishments of Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Ida B. Wells-Barnett, Alice Stone Blackwell, Anna Howard Shaw and Carrie Chapman Catt, Alice Paul, Margaret Sanger, Betty Friedan, and all the others, and be awestruck by the magnificent view.

:applause:

[Coexist]

75. thank you.

[beam me up scottie]

78. You're quite welcome.

It was inspiring and should be read by all.

[raccoon]

77. Right on, sister!

It really pisses me off when I (age 53) hear a younger woman say,
"I'm not a feminist," as if it were a dirty word.

[Jo March]

25. Wonder what my sis, Ms. I Had An Abortion but Voted for *, has to say

She is firmly in the "I got mine but you can't get one" camp.

I've been to an abortion clinic with my best friend. It was horrifying. I can't imagine what it was like when it was illegal. :scared:

[annabanana]

46. sorry to have to do this (graphic pic)

THIS is what it was like:

[Jo March]

71. Oh, my dear God in Heaven

That is the most horrible thing I've ever seen.

Maybe I'll send that to my sister.

[xxqqqzme]

83. Bingo! My sister had

THREE! She was one of the ones who used abortion as birth control. Absolutely devoted 2 commander kookoo bananas. My parents sheltered her and practically raised her 3 kids. Wonder how they would have managed if it had been SIX! All of them devoted rethug voters!!!

[Jo March]

99. I just don't understand women like that!

I can't imagine having one abortion, much less three, because the whole process is just horrible - even though it's legal. I am amazed that she was able to find an abortion doctor the first time because so many doctors won't perform abortions anymore.

I don't get the devotion to *. Sis says that he's "good for the military." Whatever. During Bush 1, she went to DS/DS. During bush II, she's gone to Afghanistan and Iraq. During Clinton, she went to Spain, England and places like that.

She's an idiot. We don't talk much because I view her as a hypocrite and I don't have time for hypocrites.

[WillyT]

26. Nominated And Kicked !!!

RIGHT ON TRISH!!!

:yourock:

oops...

:evilgrin:

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. I will not let my daughter suffer for the follies of a bunch of white,

male fools.

[Captain Hilts]

49. A man talking about abortion is like a woman talking about the draft (nt)

[Misunderestimator]

86. Not quite... nothing wrong with a man talking about abortion...

or a woman talking about the draft... And since the draft would most likely INCLUDE women this time around, women have every right to talk about it with a much bigger stake in it than men have with abortion rights.

[PleadTheFirst]

32. And you won't be alone, Patriot.

Every man with a heart, who would never want to see our country slip back to those horrific days, will be right beside you.

Your post choked me up. Thanks for putting it so well.

[electron_blue]

33. They certainly want to control women

They don't want us to die, pg. Not all of us, anyway. They want enough of us alive to take care of them at home. Mostly, they just want us home and out of the work force.

[EFerrari]

34. They'll do it over my dead body.

And we have them right by the hypocrisy.

It won't happen, we will not go back.

[beam me up scottie]

37. It's not about babies,

it's about control.

And we won't go back.

[exsoccermom]

38. Hey, am I wrong, or isn't slavery still illegal?

Did I miss something here? How can a woman's body be removed from her control? What really annoys me is those jerks act as if a pregnancy is no more of an effort or danger for the woman than going out and getting the mail. Not only to illegal abortions endanger women, pregnancy can also be very dangerous for women.

[beam me up scottie]

40. They don't care.

They don't care if we die, they didn't before and they don't now.
If you visit right wing websites, you'll see that many of them think women deserve to die from abortions.
You'll also see that they think women deserve to get pregnant for being promiscuous.
And that if we abstain until we're married, we won't have any problems.

This is our punishment.
We deserve this.

We won't go back.

[Eloriel]

93. And the REST of that is that it's a life sentence

Not just 9 months. It's a LIFETIME commitment, with Hard Time for the 1st 18 years, or more. All of them act as if there's nothing to THAT either.

[TalkingDog]

39. I refuse to be a government regulated baby factory n/t

[tishaLA]

42. Damn right

It's time for EVERYBODY to stand up again and be counted.

[progressivebydesign]

43. The thing that PISSES ME OFF THE MOST ABOUT THIS??

Is that you KNOW each and every one of those religious for profit politicians would not HESITATE to arrange an abortion for their mistresses when the need arises. Cuz we ALL know that it happens, it's happened, and it will CONTINUE to happen even if they outlaw the right to reproductive freedom! You KNOW that those old white men who decide for ALL OF US, have friendly doctors that do the deed for them for the right money. That's what is soo disgusting about these people.

[Pacifist Patriot]

57. I think that every time I consider the subject.

I absolutely agree!

[Coexist]

85. absolutely - Culture of Lifers so long as it doesn't embarrass them

publicly.

[bobbieinok]

88. happened before Roe

[theHandpuppet]

45. Support/donate to NARAL

http://www.NARAL.org/

[newsguyatl]

47. this male will fight with you

along side you

[Captain Hilts]

51. If I were in a woman's shoes I would want the right to choose! (nt)

[Captain Hilts]

48. My mother knows it, my friends know it, my UPS man knows it...(nt)

[alittlelark]

52. We will not go back.... 65+% of the US population is behind us..

But I've gotta say......

The fascio-corporatists give not a hair in a rats ass about abortion. NO PROFIT.

They care only about corporate rights. 'Profits' is their GOD.

If they overturn Roe vs Wade even the Diebold machines will not save them (unless we are in a VERY SCARY paradigm ie: WWIII) .

Division is their power.

Corporatism is their religion.

They will get a VERY corporate - friendly SC Judge who is 'iffy' on abortion.... they will yell and scream about his/her 1st pro-abortion decision.....

and head to the bank with their corporate lootings.



ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. I love you pp.

:hug:

[proud patriot]

59. I love you MrsGrumpy

You are raising a daughter and I a son .
Different worries and fears but together
we will get through this . :loveya:

[Solly Mack]

54. A law that doesn't recognize me as a person is a law I don't have to

recognize.


I won't go back.

[indigo32]

55. No Way

I'm with you PP

[beam me up scottie]

58. There are plenty here who seem to be

more than happy to hand over our rights without a fight so that they can get back to "more important" things.

A thread full of them was just deleted.

IMO

If you won't fight for us, you don't deserve to have any rights.

You don't deserve our respect.

You don't deserve to be in this party.

You don't deserve to post in this forum.

You are not liberals.

You are not progressive.

You are selfish cowards.

And we will not go back.

[Dragonfli]

91. Hi, I remember that thread!

:hi:

I still have my sister's backs as well as my brothers!

(PS I think some of the more reasonable people are coming around.)

[catzies]

65. I got my tubes tied as a distinctly political decison, after 1 kid & yrs

of problems from being on the pill.

I knew I was done after one, but male gyn aftr male gyn all told me they wouldn't do it because maybe I "just needed to find the right man." I was already a baby momma once, and didn't want to do it over and over. That would have been the death of me.

So now I'm in it for my daughter, & her friends, and everybody's daughters whose biology shouldn't rule their destiny.

[rainman99]

66. Why should men care? They'll just LEAVE when a woman

gets pregnant.

[Ripley]

89. Or murder her.

Since that is the second cause of death of pregnant woman in America...the father murdering her.

[anarchy1999]

70. I'm just sorry it is still a fight. This is such a personal issue.

I believe the federal government nor any government has a say.

I'm so sorry for us all that this is an issue to divide us all.

It should not be so.

[In_The_Wind]

72. they want to take our right to make a choice

no way!

[blogslut]

73. "convenience"

Have you heard that word thrown around in the abortion discussion? I sure have.

Women have abortions for convenience.

Heads up: Every woman takes the chance that she could die during pregnancy and childbirth.

I almost died from a bloodclot when I had my child.

This isn't convenience. The decision to carry a to child full-term is a life and death CHOICE.

[Bassic]

76. As a man, the thing that shames me the most is

that if this was actually a problem for men, there wouldn't be a fight at all. The younger generations need to take power soon. The geezers and babyboomers have have mor than a good run, but now it's our time, get out of the way!

[MN ChimpH8R]

81. Wonderful posts on this thread

The only time I ever went out and carried a sign in college was at demonstrations marking the anniversary of Roe and supporting that decision.

I remember well when the debate was going on pre-Roe back in my teen years. I though about the whole thing for a few minutes and quickly came to a decision I thought logical: the choice can properly lie only with the person who will be most affected by that decision - the woman facing the decision.

I have never been able to wrap my head around the RW notion that such a personal decision should be made by anyone other than the woman actually facing that situation. Potentialities are not actualities, and assuming arguendo that there is a conflict of "rights" as between the woman and the embryo (and I do NOT concede the existence of such a conflict based on the premise of individual bodily autonomy), I can see no reason not to support the woman's right in ALL cases.

And to the earlier poster who argued that the Reich wing's real target is Griswold, you are absolutely correct.

What deep seated, primal insecurity is it in so many males that leads to their psychopathic fear of female sexuality? I can't get that at all. :shrug:

[myrna minx]

82. We must stand together in this fight.

:cry:

[CWebster]

84. And to think

the Clintons were swept in on our backs.

[suffragette]

87. We will not give up, we will not be silenced and

we will not go back.

[proud patriot]

90. Right On Suffragette

:hug:

[wicket]

94. Tom Petty's song sums up how I feel on this issue:

"I Won't Back Down"

Well I won't back down, no I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down

Gonna stand my ground, won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin' me down
Gonna stand my ground and I won't back down

Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
Hey I will stand my ground
And I won't back down

Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I'll stand my ground and I won't back down

Hey baby there ain't no easy way out
Hey I will stand my ground
And I won't back down
No, I won't back down

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: