I've participated in two abortions. I am not sorry.

[Modem Butterfly]

When I was in college, one of my roommate's got pregnant. We had to drive 100 miles to Portland, OR for an abortion. I had to take off school and work in the middle of the week and put out a friend of mine for a place to stay. Our car tires got slashed, and I paid for a new set because my roommate had spent all her money on the abortion.

You know what? I'm not sorry.

When I worked in Reno one summer, living with my aunt and uncle, a girl I worked with came to work in tears. She told me that she had gotten pregnant again and had to sneak out of the house to have an abortion so her husband wouldn't find out about it. She said when she went to the clinic, she was met with angry protestors and a TV camera, documenting the chaos. I took her the next day, covered with a blanket. I had paint thrown at me and was hit with a sign. I was called every name in the book. I got on TV and my aunt almost threw me out.

You know what? I'm not sorry.

[southernleftylady]

1. I had one after i was raped ... and im not sorry ! nt

[mandomom]

8. A woman does not need to be raped

to be entitled to choose whether to have an abortion. Any feelings of sorrow or guilt about it should rest in the individual's mind and heart, not in a courtroom.

[southernleftylady]

9. ok.. did i say they had to be raped ??? nt

[Warren DeMontague]

74. No, and I don't think that was her point- but it does draw into focus the

reality of the myriad reasons why women make that choice and why the choice should be up to them and ONLY them.

[DanCa]

13. I am so sorry for what the animal did

Rest assured he will burn in hell.

[southernleftylady]

15. thank you

[ultraist]

27. So sorry, SLL...

What a horrific thing to have to go through. I hope they caught the sick SOB!

As far as the abortion, I think it's very healthy you have no regrets or guilt about it. Good for you! :hug:

[paula777]

38. OMG I am so sorry. That's horrible. I'm speechless

I hope your okay now

[gWbush is Mabus]

2. why couldn't she tell her husband?

[Modem Butterfly]

7. I believe she was in an abuse situation

They were Hispanic and Catholic, with five kids and living hand-to-mouth. She would come to work sometimes with terrible bruises, and if she worked late, her husband would come in and wait for her, scowling all the while. She never said she was getting abused, but she was definitely afraid of him. When she told me about the abortion she said, "I just can't tell Angel, I can't. He must not ever know. I can't tell him,". She was desperate.

[prolesunited]

31. And it's exactly these types of situations

why there should never be laws requiring women to get their partner's consent to have an abortion.

In an ideal world, the couple would talk (preferably before the situation occurs) and come up with a mutually agreeable course of action. But, since pregnancy is more risky healthwise than abortion, the final decision rests with the woman.

Men: Would you want to put your health decisions in someone else's hands, especially when there are so many risks and complications?

[formernaderite]

69. I agree.....however...

I also resent women deciding to have children, and then informing the bio-dad there's a payment due. Sorry, but I'm for equal rights in the decision making process on both ends. I'm sure I'll get flamed for taking such a reasonable position.

[prolesunited]

83. If the bio-dad is so concerned about taking responsibility

for the child he fathered, he should make that known up front, use condoms, have a vasectomy or avoid sexual contact with a woman that is not agreeable to the fact that he wants her to bear the entire brunt of creating a child.

It's not reasonable to abdicate responsibility for a child you helped create. Is it fair that your offspring has the statistical probability of growing up in poverty.

Quit playing the victim. You have choices as well. If she raped you, maybe then you have a case.

[formernaderite]

86. Let's be clear...this has never happend to me...happily married.

I do see this as an unequal situation for men. ON the one hand, he has nothing to say as to whether or not he wants "a" child, on the other hand he bears all the responsibility. Certainly sounds just.

[Bettie]

88. All the responsibility is a bit of a reach.

I speak here as a happily married mom of two boys, so I've never been in this situation either.

After all, child support doesn't generally cover all costs of raising a child and there is a lot of time and energy that also go into the raising of a child.

Sending money once a month doesn't really count as taking "all" the responsibility.

If a man doesn't want to father children, he needs to take personal responsibility for contraception, every single time he has intercourse or be celibate. That is the best way to have his say in whether he wants children.

Certainly if my husband and I were to split up, I would expect him to pay support for the children he helped me create.

[WildEyedLiberal]

85. Oh please.

The bio-dad can wear a condom, can't he, if he's so worried about fathering children. Or just not have sex at all, if he's unwilling to be responsible about contraception. :nopity:

[Horse with no Name]

90. It's not about abortion

It's about choice.
It is a woman's body. She can choose whether she wants to have children or not.
Her male partner nor her congressman opinions should never enter into it unless she chooses for it to.
If you are worried about fathering unwanted children...get a vasectomy, wear condoms or keep your dick in your pants.
Those are your choices.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. Why do you care? nt

[ET Awful]

3. A girl I knew in California had a boyfriend that was a hood and had

been in jail many times. He got her pregnant. She was unemployed and had no money and he was back in jail. She asked me to help. I gave her half the money for the procedure (and ended up being late on my rent as a result).

I'm not sorry either.

[DistressedAmerican]

4. Good For You! Do Not Let Fundie Assholes Intimidate You Or Them!

Those fucks literally make me ill. I used to live near a clinic and was subjected to these assholes every saturday for years. One time they formed a 2 block long human chain that ran right in from of my house. I took great joy in opening my front windows, putting my stereo speakers in the windows and BLASTING them (there were a group of nuns right infront of the window) with punk rock until they left.

You did the right thing. You definitely should not feel sorry. These people have no right to interfere with any medical procedure more or less firther traumatize a women in that position. They make me sick.

Good work!
:applause:

[nashville_brook]

30. nice culture jam! what did you play?

please tell!
______________________

an aside: everytime i see a nun (in habit) i feel like i've seen see a fairy or an alien. i get all excited and have to call someone to tell them of my "nun sighting." extra points for sightings in mundane, unholy places, like Home Depot or Target.

[Spike from MN]

39. Blasting them with punk rock. Excellent!

That's exactly what I would have done.

Thanks for all the personal stories posted here. It's absolutely horrible that anyone has to fight through a line of protesters in order to have a medical procedure done. I can't imagine how difficult that must be. Kudos for standing up to them.

A co-worker of mine has a Repug friend that is extremely anti-abortion. She says "it's murder and people who have them should go to jail." Well, guess who had an abortion? Yep, the "pro-life" right-winger had one, probably because "well, it was different in her case" you know. But afterwards, she got right back to pushing her anti-choice agenda. One day she spammed my co-worker with a half dozen or so emails about the "abortion industry". The co-worker emailed her back and told her to stop putting her guilt trip on others and asked her if she planned on turning herself in for murder. Hah! That shut her up for awhile. Ya gotta love it when someone gets a chance to slam a right-winger for their own hypocrisy.

So, anyone else have any stories of anti-choicers that have had abortions?

[Skinner]

5. Thank you for posting this.

You should not be be sorry. You have no reason to be. I am also not sorry.

[Modem Butterfly]

56. This means much coming from you Skinner.

Thank-you.

[bicentennial_baby]

6. I've had one...and I'm not sorry!

My body, my choice. It was the right thing to do, of that I am 100% sure. And anyone who doesn't like it can fuck off, thank ye very much. That's one thing that I don't budge on.

[Saphire]

57. I had one in the early 80's....at the time, it was the right thing for me

to do. Thank goodness I had a friend like you that helped me without judgement. I'm not sorry.

[okieinpain]

10. well when they end abortion it will get easier. because all you will

have to do is drive across the border.

[demnan]

11. I went with a friend in college who had an abortion

Oddly enough, later she got mad at me and blamed me for the fact that she had it. I did not persuade her either way but she was one confused puppy at 19. She wouldn't have been capable of taking care of a kid but her Catholic guilt crept in I guess.

[Mandate My Ass]

12. You were a good friend to them

And you walked the walk. For so many, discussion on this topic is just lip service and moral posturing.

Thanks. :)

[DanCa]

14. I firmly believe that the only say so a man has in a abortion

is before the sexual act. Otherwise it's up to the woman. If a man is so worried about the culture of life he should be the one practicing abstience. After all it takes two to make ababy.

[Gormy Cuss]

25. You're the man, DanCa

I wish all the so-called pro-lifers would focus a bit more on how men need to be involved for women to become pregnant, and men need to take responsibility for their fertility just as women do. I've heard too many women say their male partners responded to a pregnancy announcement by saying "I never wanted to have any kids." Well Buster, if that's the case, do something about it.

[nashville_brook]

28. here's something tasty on your subject: men abortion protesters

i've mentioned my abortion experience before, so i won't regale ya'll with that again....

BUT on the subject of these guys who protest and their opinions of women... check this out:

my husband works with a guy who protests every friday at the planned parenthood here in nashville. he's got eight kids. on the back of his car he has one of those big xtian fish with 8 little fish behind it.

my husband says to him, "where's your wife's fish?"

he was like, "oh, i NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!"
of course he hadn't.
_____________________________________________________

here's something i wrote a while back about fallout from having an abortion. it's somewhat tangential, but still apropos:

Pharmacists to have right to reject filling script they deem "immoral."

http://johnsoncity.blogspot.com/2005/03/pharmacists-to-have-right-to-reject.html

[spuddonna]

60. That's because she's too busy to rest on the back bumper... n/t

[nashville_brook]

66. my hubby had words to that effect for him

he ribs him constantly about treating his wife like crap. "give her a break... she doesn't want another kid."

they took a FLYING family vacation. can you imagine what it would cost to buy airfare for 10 people!

[spuddonna]

84. Yikes!

I didn't even think of the cost involved! That's a lot of mouths to feed, and sooo much work... (I have two and am tired!)

I'm extremely fortunate to have a hubby that helps out around the house (well, he cooks! lol), but I wonder how much the husband helps out with the 8? :)

[livinginphotographs]

29. Exactly.

I don't want women telling me about my prostate exams, and I shouldn't be telling them about their own medical choices.

My point is this: whom do you trust to make medical decisions? Your doctor, or a politician?

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Until men can get pregnant, I tend to agree. nt

[blondeatlast]

16. I had one because I would have died without it. My son still has his mom,

my husband his wife, and I don't regret it at all.

I'm not sorry and I never will be.

[tallahasseedem]

17. Dont ever be sorry....

that was their right.

[DanCa]

18. Modem Butterfly your a very strong person and I salute you

I know what you go thru. I have sat across these blank faced zombies and "debated" with them during stem cell issues. I have been called everything from an embryo farmer to a toddler killer.

They had even crashed our convention and followed us around on our tour of dc. It was almost funny if I wasnt surrounded by people in wheel chairs and canes. Funny they care more about embryo's than human beings. Hey can we refer to our party as the party of human beings.

[shireen]

23. I agree

And as Randi Rhodes often says of those people, "love the fetus, hate the child". It's such a good description of those sickos!

[ArkDem]

19. It's a very good thing that those two pregnancies were ended.

Unwanted kids are a much bigger problem than unwanted pregnancies!

[kick-ass-bob]

20. I've participated in two as well.

Now, there was no retribution from anyone, so there is no big story like yours had, but I am not sorry either.

:thumbsup: and recommended.

[shireen]

21. courage

It takes a lot of courage to have an abortion. The religious right makes it sound like a casual convenience that's done callously and irresponsibly. But any woman who has had one, and any human being capable of empathy, knows that it is one of the most difficult things a woman will ever have to do in her life. It's a soul-searching journey, it creates anxiety about how others -- esp. family -- will react, it means dealing with self-righteous anger from judgemental people.

Women who have abortions need our unconditional love and support, no matter how we personally feel about it. Thank you, Modem Butterfly, and others, for what you did. The world needs more people like you.

Not long ago, my friend's marriage broke up. She said God was punishing her for the abortion she had many years ago. I was horrified to hear that; how many other women carry this guilt around?! It makes me so mad that we live in a society that makes women feel that way.

[nashville_brook]

32. even us lefties get that guilt -- it's part society... it's part the

mythology of childbearing. society again, i suppose.

i had/have the guilt. still do to a certain extent since i'm almost 40 and still no kids. i have to "borrow" my friends'. :)

when i was in college i picked up a book call, A Difficult Decision -- just to get a written perspective on the subject. not a good book. which has got me thinking... there SHOULD be more written on the subject. there needs to be discourse. there needs to be signposts and information for young girls going thru it. anyone going thru it. once you've done it, it become part of who you are. your history. and it's important to share.

when i bought that book i wanted some light to shine. i finally found the book i needed in For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When The Rainbow Is Enuf, by Ntozake Shange. it doesn't deal with abortion per se, but with the tragedy and joy of growing up in poverty -- financial as well as emotional etc.

[Scout]

22. I escorted many clients into the clinic past the protesters...

we were screamed at, chased with a van, etc.

and I'm NOT sorry.

(I learned I should have been a hockey player ... I have a pretty good check :evilgrin:)

[daydreamer]

24. Wouldn't it be better if

these children are born and put on welfare? That would make the freepers happy! As a liberal, I have no problem with welfare. A bomb costs a million(?). A million $ can feed many babies for a long, long time. If the freepers want outlaw the abortion, then they have to be ready to pay taxes for welfare, don't they? The problem is that they are also against welfare. So what do we do?

[nashville_brook]

36. see post #34 -- i am SO on your wavelength!

[daydreamer]

87. Where is post No.34?

[LisaLynne]

26. You were a good friend both times.

I also was in a similar situation. I helped a friend carry out her decision to have an abortion. People who think women make these decisions on a whim are, from my experience, way off base. My friend thought about it for a long time and it was the only choice that was viable. I don't regret helping her in the small way that I did.

There is a real hypocracy among those who picket clinics. They don't choose to think about -- it's much easier to live in their black and white world.

[flvegan]

33. I have an ex-girlfriend that had an abortion before she met me.

I didn't ask. She felt that I should know. She wasn't sorry. Neither was I. Didn't even BEGIN to affect the way I felt about her. I felt bad that she thought I might think ill of her decision. Maybe she was just letting me know that if she were to get pregnant with me, that it would be her decision. I certainly respect AND expect that.

I also have lots and lots of close female friends. Every single one of them knows that if they ever need to cross a protest line to access a clinic, they can count on me to walk in front of them, and safely escort them in. I'm a big dude, and God help the fool that gets in our way or tries to stop us.

[nashville_brook]

35. that's the spirit!

having walked in her shoes -- let me just throw this out -- she might have been asking you for forgiveness, esp if she was starting to like/trust you. she wanted her big guy to tell her it was okay. she wasn't expecting you to think ill -- she could have been doing that age-old "girl thing" of needing emotional strokes... in the place that hurts.

i say this b/c once you've had an abortion, the last thing you want to do is plan the next one.

but -- totally -- that's the spirit. walk with your sisters and keep them safe.

[nashville_brook]

34. what the hell -- here's my story, again

(i posted this back in may. i'm reposting it, b/c i think it's soooo important to keep the volume turned up on this subject esp given the SCOTUS stuff happening. so, i apologize for the repeat... but enjoy if you didn't read it back then. -- b)

What we think about when we think about abortion

If you ask, EVERYONE has one of two stories: an abortion or a DUI. It's way more common than you might think. Especially if you are a teenager. Having lived with this issue all thru my 20s and 30s, I can say that the abortion issue goes way beyond pregnancy. Pregnant women aren't worried about how to actually *have* the baby. That's the last thing you are thinking about.

What sends the girl to the yellow pages is the FACT that if you have a baby, you FORFEIT your LIFE. Education? Forget it. You want that baby? You do it ALONE. You are going to be another statistic in some social worker's file book. You are going to live in sub-standard housing if you are lucky enough to even have housing when you can't hold a job because you have a little baby to care for. You are going to have a broken heart when your precious child becomes a statistic himself either in a gang or otherwise falling into the wrong element which is sure to happen given your economic situation.

If you want at-risk young women to take their pregnancies to termn -- build the communities -- the VILLIAGES our last First Lady spoke of. Family-friendly isn't just for people who can afford Gymboree. Children and mothers -- YOUNG families require a support system, otherwise known as "community" to thrive. People think they can BUY community on a zero-interst APR mortgage in a neighborhood with a logo and a gate. That's not community. That a prison.

Here's the truth about "America" -- despite all our bluster about being family oriented, you take away "kids eat free on sunday" and our culture is no more family-friendly than a hall of whirling knives.

I had an abortion. There wasn't any question about it in my mind. I was born into poverty. Homelessness and hunger aren't abstract to me. I should have had a choice of scholarships to great schools, but I was way too happy smoking pot and riding in cars with boys. Thank you, poverty, you gave me a great album collection. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

Years later i would be in college and networking with environmental groups which gave me the opportunity to work with alternative communities -- you know -- hippies. Folks who developed close-knit communities that were head and shoulders more family-friendly than anything I've ever seen in the suburbs. I would attend spring and fall conferences that usually included some gathering of kids around a maypole or drum circle. yikes, I know -- but the kids loved this shit! Usually I'd just sit and think that these people were my same age and yet able to have kids and raise them in an environment that promised education, safety and careful attention (and drumming, how cool is that?). This was not fair in my mind. I'd go thru stages of anger and bitterness which helped me keep my distance from The Hippies. If this kind of community were available to everyone, ABORTION wouldn't be an issue. Why do you have to wear patchouli and floppy pants to have a tribe? Who wouldn't LOVE to raise their little babies in a fun environment with lots of like-minded people around to help them grow -- people of all ages who could share stories and skills.

The fact is, most people don't have that kind of network. If we did, we'd have babies left and right.

DUI's and abortions are common for a reason other than they are something people don't normally talk about. In a world where your culture exists totally OUTSIDE of the home or the tribe or whatever -- you are going to have to GO OUT in order to participate in life. You aren't going to be able to MAKE IT out of the nest until you become your own little corporate entity. You have REMOVE yourself from your hometown and your family and your support system in order to be able to support yourself. To live. To create the capacity, the economic engine, to run your own family.

THIS IS ALL WASTED ENERGY. God, I hate to see energy go to waste. Do you think elders like growing old alone? Do you think families LIKE working two jobs to make ends meet? Do you think we have a choice?

Our corporatist culture demands ALIENATION of families, communities, hell -- our whole world. The corporatist sulture is out of control. We don't have any more workers to feed to it to make ends meet -- not unless they lower the working age to 12, which they would if they could.

If it were any other way we would have UNIONS and communities that lift families up without the fucking faith-based bullshit attached to it. We'd have community arts and education programs that keep kids engaged ALL HOURS while parents have to work. We'd have safe streets.

we'd have CHILD CARE
we'd have EDUCATION thru phd if that's how far you can go
we wouldn't threaten pregnant women with HUNGER, POVERTY and HOMELESSNESS

the ARTS would be fully-funded without prejudice
POLICE OFFICERS would be paid a fair, living wage -- enough so regular citizens can TRUST them
TEACHERS would be paid a fair, living wage -- enough so we can RELY on them
and we wouldn't STRAND people who can't afford a car to their bedroom community ghetto on the outskirts of town.

We'd take care of each other. It's that simple. Shit, it's simpler than that -- we'd protect the support systems already in place. It DOES takes a village to raise to a child. Until we commit to that it is our responsibility to protect our sisters' choice to determine the size of her family. To do otherwise would be uncivilized.

[midnight armadillo]

40. This is so true

I'm the father of an almost-two-year-old, and what you say about America being anti-family is staggeringly true. I never imagined how much the lack of community and gov. support for families would make our lives so much more difficult. And I make a very good salary and can afford Gymboree! (a great place, btw, something that every little tike should get to do). I even work for a very family friendly company, which helps, and my wife stays home, but damn is it still hard. i have on occasion looked into 'intentional communities' but there aren't many in Mass.

Corporate domination of our culture has ruined American community: the bigger the company, the more impersonal and authoritarian it is. This seeps back into the culture at large and is ruining the impulse for democracy.

[nashville_brook]

43. my hope is to FRAME abortion in terms of "family-friendliness"

lets give the protesters a means to walk the walk. they want less abortion? then pitch in and help us create a REAL family-friendly country. that means fully-funding schools. paying taxes for community good. demanding reasonable schedules for our kids' school day. if we go to work from 9 to 5, why can't they go to school from 9 to 5? we need childcare and transportation. we need sidewalks and safe neighborhoods.

lets walk the walk, people! lets really have a family-friendly culture and not just give lip-service to the idea while starving our schools, neighborhoods and social services.

gee, i ranted all that and not one mention of HEALTHCARE! oh, i could go on for days on this issue. i almost didn't read this thread b/c i knew it would capture me! :)

[LeftyMom]

55. I mostly agree with what you posted

but I don't think school from 9-5 would be healthy for most kids. They need unstructured time and time with thier families, and don't get enough of either as it is. What we need to be doing is making it easier for parents to stay home with the kids if they want or get off work when the kids are ready to go home.

We also need neighborhoods and parks where kids can safely play, both in terms of low crime rates and drivers keeping an eye out for kids and traveling at safe speeds.

[nashville_brook]

58. totally -- not that kids should have to study

or even be at "school." but mandatory 2 to 3 hour layovers between mom and dad getting home and the kids coming home from school is a huge prob -- this speaks to the economic reality of dual income families and single parent families which is front and center in the sense of a family's "carrying capacity," or their ability to "afford" to have a child or another child.

i guess i put that out there just to illustrate one overlooked way the deck is stacked against us. this issue gets incrementally worse the further down the socio-economic scale you go relating to quality of school systems, after school activities, flex-time at work (usually something that's offered in whiter-collar work situatiions), etc.

[CrispyQ]

82. You've got a good LTTE there!

Yes, the party of family values really means this:

MY family is valuable; YOURS is not.

[jane_pippin]

37. Thank you for posting this

My mother's first marriage was extremely abusive and she became pregnant twice. Once her husband "took care of it." He beat her, she miscarried. The second time she had an abortion before he found out.
She finally got away from him, married my dad, and has been a wonderful mom to my brother and I.

We're not sorry either.

[Theatrical]

41. Thanks for sharing...a newbie's story

I have one seven year-old. When I was pregnant with her, I listen to my fundie parents and decided to have her. Now what does she have to look forward to? The destruction of America by Bush and his cronies. Environmental destruction. The end of the oil age and the massive die-off that will result. I can't believe the suffering she'll have to endure. I love her and try to make her happy as can, but when I think about the pain she will have to go through, I honestly wonder if I did the right thing.

Two years ago, I got pregnant again. This time, I looked into my own heart for the answer. I realized that it would not be right for me to make two people suffer in what this world will become. So like you, I'm not sorry. I'm proud of my decision. I'm more careful now, so I don't expect I'll have to make it again. But if I get pregnant again, I'll probably be down at the clinic as soon as possible.

Maybe if this country and this world changed its course, I'll reconsider. But I look at it as follows: if one were lost in the jungle with a group of people and hungry people-eating tigers were getting closer and closer. One would have a responsibility to help those nearest to you for as long as possible. But let's say you could teleport more people in. The only catch is they couldn't get out. I don't see how it would be moral to do so. Thus I love my daughter and will do the best I can for her, but I can't see how bringing anyone else in is the moral thing to do.

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. Welcome to DU

:hi: Love your seven year old and hold her tight! She is here now and maybe, just maybe her future, in alignment with the World's-- won't be as grave as we think right now. We can only hope!

[Divameow77]

42. It was a very hard decision for me

but I was 21 and my son was only 6 months old and I was a single mom, I knew the child I already had would be affedted by my decision as well so I chose to have an abortion.
On the flip side I had gotten pregnant at 16 (you can get pregnant your first time) in a situation that was not completely my choice, and I gave him up for adoption to a wonderful couple and I will never regret that decision either, I gave them the best gift a person ever could and I am glad I was strong enough to make that choice but I would never want that to a girls/womans only choice.

[ohio_liberal]

44. I've had two abortions

and I will never feel guilty about it.

The first was when I was 19. I was in college and my long-term BF and I decided the pill was the best method of birth control for us. Well, it failed and I found I was pregnant. BF and I were in the midst of making a decision about continuing the pregnancy. He crashed on a motorcycle a couple of weeks later and was on a ventilator, no brain activity. His parents thought I should have the baby as a reminder of their son (he was later removed from the ventilator and died peacefully). It was a horrible decision but I did decide that I wasn't ready to be a single mom at the age of 19.

The second was when I was 28. I was married and had one baby already. My hubby started drinking and using cocaine after 10 years of sobriety. I had an abortion. We got divorced a year later. I'm glad I didn't have a baby at that time. I couldn't imagine going through that all alone.

I had best girlfriends both times who never judged, never told me I was making a mistake, and shielded me from all the awful shit that happens outside abortion clinics. I remember we had to drive all the way to Pittsburgh PA to the clinic and there were old people standing in the parking lot with blown-up photos and literature in their hands. They literally tried to surround the car when we parked and my girlfriend hopped out of the passenger side and held her arms out so that an older man couldn't get close to me. I'll never forget what she did for me, and I swear I'll do the same for anyone who ever needs support.

[MattSWin]

46. I'm relatively pro-life for progressive reasons...

I'm disabled and a disability rights advocate and I have a great fear that abortion is used and will be used to prevent the birth of disabled children, especially as we can determine if a fetus is disabled in utero.

[Warren DeMontague]

79. So you want the government deciding for women

instead of women deciding for themselves?

[MattSWin]

89. If it protects disabled children I do...

I guess what I'm saying is I support Roe v. Wade but think the government should be able to restrict abortion rights if it can demonstrate a proper reason for doing so. Aborting a fetus just because it's female or disabled should be restricted because the government has an interest in stopping discrimination.

The government overrules the decisions of people discriminating based on disability and sex, so why should it be different in the case of abortion.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. Because what you will end up with in women having to go in front of

strangers and "explain" why they want an abortion. And get interrogated. And they can still lie.

The reason that abortion doesn't fall into the same category as "discrimination based on disability and sex" is because calling a fertilized egg one microsecond after conception a "human being" and a "baby" doesn't make it so. Now, good people disagree on precisely when to confer humanity upon the product of conception; but most abortions take place in the first trimester, and whether or not I am personally comfortable with all that philosophically, I certainly think it's reasonable allow individual women to make that call, as opposed to granting fertiled eggs citizenship and rights under the 14th amendment by legislative fiat.

Add to this the fact that pre-viable fetuses are not in a situation like any other "entity" in society; they are wholly dependent upon someone else's physical being to survive, and if you overrule the decisionmaking of that person, you are essentially forcing them to use their body as an incubator against their will. Giving your brother a kidney transplant might be the moral thing to do, but would you want the government to arrest you if you didn't?

Likewise, when people assert that a fertilized egg is a human being, they generally don't have any answer as to why the unfertilized egg, and the sperm, (which together have the same genetic material and "potential life" as the fertilized egg, they just haven't joined yet) shouldn't also have "rights" under the law. Usually that question produces indignant sputters, but no one in the "pro-life" world seems to be able to adequately address it. Since you're disabled, would you be opposed to people screening sperm for genetic disabilities? Would that, to you, constitute a form of discrimination?

Lastly, let me add I'm not coming at this from a vacuum, myself. I have a VERY disabled relative, who happens to have a condition for which stem cell research -embryonic stem cell research- has shown incredible promise where none currently exists. If the "Pro-life" crowd was really interested in "protecting disabled children" they would stop interfering with potentially lifesaving research. Frankly, I would MUCH prefer it if they would get the fuck out of the way on that, as opposed to using the disabled, the terminally ill, the brain dead, and anyone else that is morally convenient as a prop and and excuse to justify what is already their foregone conclusion, i.e. that all abortion (and most birth control, actually) should be criminalized.

[brainshrub]

47. You don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk.

I don't agree that an abortion is the right choice, but I'll defend a womans right to control her own body.

A pox on anyone who would malign you for helping someone in a time of need.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. I helped arrange an abortion for my ex-wife's 14 year old daughter.

She was a rather typical adolescent. Experimenting with all sorts of things including sex with her her 16 year old boyfriend (who split as soon as he heard). Thought herself grown up and had no time for adults or their advice or restrictions. I was the stepfather who was tentative about "interfering" with her upbringing. We were also headed for divorce.

To make a long story short, the girl was too young to have a kid.

I had no qualms whatsoever about convincing her that having a baby was a bad idea, helping arrange the abortion, transporting her to the clinic, and taking her home.

To give you an idea of her ability to make mature decisions, she decided she was bored 2 days after the abortion and took a little gallop on her horse. I took her to the hospital for that venture.

That was about 25 years ago, and I've never felt guilty about it.

I would feel guilty if I hadn't intervened as I did.

[ellenfl]

49. i have had 2 - 18 years apart. my mother

helped me with both. i joked with my mother that i would not have another for 18 years. her mother had one also but she was french and not as prudish as we americans are.

i had to go to new york for my first because it was 1971 and that was the only place performing the procedure. there were women there from all over the country and from all age groups. i never planned to have children so it was not as emotionally charged for me as it can be for others.

while i was in recovery for my second one, i signed up to be an escort at the clinic. it always angered me that the protestors were mostly men and that they never offered any real help . . . especially with options for after the child is born. alternatively to what someone here said . . . love the fetus, ignore the child (and the mother).

the clinic where i used to volunteer was recently fire bombed. my mother really worried that i would get hurt while i was there . . . especially since i volunteered twice a month.

one woman i worked with came to me when her daughter got pregnant. i am very sure it was against her religion . . . but your religion changes when it happens to you or your family. i took her, her husband and daughter to the clinic and guided them through it. i never spoke to them about the politics of it, before, at the time, or after . . . i just helped them get it done.

if men could get pregnant, abortion would have always been the law of the land. in fact, for a long time in our early history, it was not illegal . . . then the ama was formed and it was downhill from there. it was all politics . . . just as now.

i think we need to start framing the abortion issue as an individual responsibility issue . . . along with the right to die and medical marijuana. it should be about dominion over our own bodies in this 'ownership' society. this administration wants less government . . . unless our bodies are involved. then they want to be our nanny.

ellen fl

[Helga Scow Stern]

50. The "Sacrament of Abortion"

Ginette Paris, a professor of psychology and sociology from Montreal, wrote a book with this title.

In it she speaks of the natural perogative of the mother to take care of her family by chosing whether or not to have a child.

Of course the first family to take care of is oneself.

[zoids]

52. Of course the first family to take care of is oneself.

Hear, Hear!

[zoids]

51. I'm not sorry either!

Great post!

I know there are several times mistakes were made and an abortion saved us from much grief. I also agree with the poster who talked about here seven year old kid in this age of bush! I'm glad for the sake of every aborted fetus that they don't have to suffer what's to come before us due to bush and his reign! That's why we have no children and if another mistake is made, we will use our right to an abortion for our sake and the sake of the fetus!!

[Roxy66]

53. very hard decision...but not sorry

[tamtam]

54. I drove my sister to the clinic

I drove her to the clinic twice to have an abortion.

My sister is not mentally stable and the state is taking care of her. We both were the victims of child abuse and she just did not have the skills to take care of children. I took custody of her first child and the second one was put in foster care. She got pregnant twice after that and the last time she got pregnant she had her tubes tide. I do not regret driving her and no I'm not sorry either.

[spuddonna]

59. You are a true friend...n/t

[cheeseit]

61. You shouldn't be sorry, and I salute you.

[DURHAM D]

62. One day while at work I got a call from the daugher of a co-worker.

Amy, 14 years old, told me she was pregnant by her 16 year old classmate (not even a boyfriend)and needed to have an abortion. I barely knew this child. I told her to discuss it with her mother, my friend and co-worker.

Amy replied that Mom doesn't believe in abortion and when I told her she told me to call you for help. Long story short - I made the arrangements, insisted that the boyfriend be present, took them for the appointment and followup and paid for half of it because the kids didn't have the money.

What did the mother do - "She told me I was going to hell for helping her daughter". I reminded her that I am agnostic. She said I would go to hell for that as well.

[gkhouston]

63. so the mother wanted the abortion to happen

but didn't want to go to hell herself for having enabled it? But it was okay for you to help out, since you were already going to go to hell because you're an agnostic? Is that the twisted "logic" at work here? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I do know that I pity the daughter. What an unhealthy environment to have to grow up in.

Good on you for helping out the daughter.

[DURHAM D]

67. Actually the family was pretty messed up.

Amy called me two years later pregnant again. I told her to talk with her mother or father (divorced parents). I declined to help her because I thought the second pregnancy was the least of their problems. I knew her mother went to bed early every night after too many cocktails and did not finish the day with her. Dad had started a new family and wears women's underwear (not judging him for this) although the ex and daughter do.

Anyway, I found out later that Amy had dropped out of high school and had the baby. Last I heard her mother was raising the baby and Amy is trying to find herself and is living in another state.

Just so you know, this is an upper middle-class family and both parents are professionals. Their only child is completely lost.

Very sad - but, they are Catholic and have God on their side. Both parents think they are better than me.

[gkhouston]

70. and so the cycle repeats

maybe if mom had pulled her head out of her ass when the daughter was 14, there wouldn't have been another baby at age 16. I don't think 14 year olds are mature enough for sex, but I'd rather see them on the Pill and using condoms than see them with HIV and pregnant. But then again, I'm going to Hell, so what do I know?

[DURHAM D]

71. I will see you there . Do you drink beer and play poker ? eom

[gkhouston]

72. oh my, I haven't played poker since junior high school

You'll have to re-teach me. Beer, yes. Have one! :toast:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Sounds like mama's gonna be a tad lonesome in Heaven.

Except for the other tightasses.

[DURHAM D]

68. Mama is officially a martyr now - she is raising the baby resulting

from Amy's second pregnancy at 16.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

73. I hope her efforts at parenting don't result in the same way.

Which is probably likely.

Then she can banish the next generation from her imaginary heaven and have even more fun piously cackling with the other hypocrites infesting the place.

[Ilsa]

64. Thanks to all of you brave souls that put up with expense and harassment

to help a desperate young woman out. You are angels, and never forget it.

Thank you Modem! You are a thoughtful and kind person, and I'm glad you aren't sorry.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. Thanks for sharing this.

:thumbsup:

[donheld]

77. Nor should you be sorry

I'd do it in a heart beat if need be.

[bigwillq]

80. You go, Modem Butterfly!

Thank you for participating in a women's right to choose. These are sometimes not easy decisions but at least women still have the right to choose to do what they wish with their bodies.

:hi:

[Lilyhoney]

81. I know an abortion doctor.

All he wanted to do was to help women. He lives a difficult life due to his choice in profession. The last time I was at his house, I noticed the bullet hole in the glass above his front door. I listened to the stories of how the child is harassed at the school bus stop. I have seen the nasty signs that the local church puts up on it's lawn. I know he does'nt have alot of money because it was never about the money. The law suits from combatting the smear campaigns were financially draining as well.

And he is not sorry either.