WHEN did the DSM fall off the radar?

[commander bunnypants]

I have not heard a peep about it

CB

[janedoe]

1. Hire a few terrorists, and you won't hear about it.

But, follow the Rove story. The DSM is connected to it.


http://www.sethabramson.blogspot.com/

[dmkinsey]

2. MSM declare DSM "old news"

further declare that no one cares.
Presto! No more DSM

Undeclared: * administration lied and everyone in the world knows it.
But that's not news.

[skids]

3. To stay on the radar, a story needs an information trickle.

The Plame Game has new juicy details every day. DSM hasn't produced in this department, as far as I can tell.

[jaxx]

4. The DNC, Kerry and the rest need to put out a briefing every day

about the DSM and Rove. Keep it high on the visual list. Most wingers just look at the pictures anyway.

[IndianaDemocrat]

8. Don't Jump On A Dangerous thing...

The Thing about rattlesnakes is they have a way of biting the handler....

The DSM's died because:

A) They were speculative to begin with...

B) The reporter blew his credibility in the interview with AP...

We need to win THE OLD FASHIONED WAY...
By convincing people WE HAVE A PLAN FOR AMERICA, not by the constant bashing....

PS- EB for Prez/2008!!!

[jaxx]

9. How did the reporter blow his credibility?

[IndianaDemocrat]

10. You Don't Remember??

Copies of copies of copies just won't hold water in today's world of Instant Internet checks...

The reporter can't produce ORIGINALS, nor anyone willing to sstep forward and PUBLICLY verify that they ever existed. In the end, it's just his word....

And telling the AP reporter that he copied it from the original, retyped them, destroyed his original copy, then retyped it again into a word processor doesn't do ANYTHING for his credibility...

There is NO way to tell if it's true, it wasn't embellished by the reporter, or if it even existed...

In the end, it isn't worth falling on the sword over, and even if it was, Conyers made it a laughingstock...

Time to move on, and prepare for the coming elections...

E.B. For Prez/2008...

[insane_cratic_gal]

12. where is your link for it

I've heard nothing of the sort.. sounds like a gop talking point, like the one they have for Plame.. "she was already out to all of her friends so it's ok!"

Which is all bs

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaDemocrat]

16. Are you a "Winger"??

You don't have to be a Right-Winger to know that you can't push something you can't PROVE. That's why they laugh at us NOW!!!

Captains Quarters has the info and the Links to the AP story on Yahoo, but the link appears dead...

"The reporter himself says that he retyped the memos on an old-style manual typewriter and destroyed either the originals (AP) or working copies from which he worked (Rawstory). In effect, he created mock-ups -- and that means the memos provided by the Times in PDF format are fakes."

I won't go so far as to say "Fake", But it's just enough doubt that any reasonable person has to say "WT*"?

It's dead, it's buried, and it's time to move on to the REAL business at hand, which is WINNING ELECTIONS. And we aren't going to do it by pushing the Conspiracy Theory of the week!!

You win elections by convincing YOUR IDEAS are better, NOT by saying your "Less Worse" than the other guy, and CREDIBILTY goes a long way to getting there...

PS- E.B for Prez/2005

[Minstrel Boy]

17. "you can't push something you can't PROVE"

The Right does this with every breath!

We, on the other hand, are up to our eyeballs in evidence. But our evidence will never be proof enough for their Stupifying Hate Machine.

[jaxx]

19. I disagree.

We aren't going to win by shutting up about the truth of this war and this administration's deeds. That's what they'd like us to do........shut up and don't talk about anything remotely controversial. Be sweet and compliant, and above all, don't diss dubya. The man has gotten 1770 American soldiers killed for all those lies..........so far. I'm not shutting up.

[IndianaDemocrat]

22. I actually AGREE with you...

"We aren't going to win by shutting up about the truth of this war and this administration's deeds."

I AGREE with you, but you have to have CREDIBILITY to be listened to, and memos of questionable origin isn't helping. The Original question was why did the DSM's die.

Shout from the rooftops all you want, it's the AMERICAN way, but when you do, make sure it's something that's not going to embarrass the rest of us!!!

In the end, you have to decide if you want to actually WIN elections, Or do you want to fall on the sword over something you can't actually PROVE??

[insane_cratic_gal]

24. Do you believe that we went to war

based on lies?

this is only thing I could find. It doesn't discredit the facts of the DSM at all.



“I first photocopied them to ensure they were on our paper and returned the originals, which were on government paper and therefore government property, to the source,” he added.

[IndianaDemocrat]

27. It doesn't discredit the facts of the DSM at all- It's Not The FACTS!

It's not the FACTS, it's the MEMOS themselves that are the Question!

This is my particular grind, and I think that continuing to hammer on something that can't actually be PROVEN is costing us VOTES!! To be utterly honest, I'm a bit tired of being laughed at over it...

It's well beyond time to move on to the REAL Job at hand, which is winning back Federal Seats and State Legislators that have been lost, and protecting the ones we still have.

In the end, you will change NOTHING by losing elections...

Even if EVERYTHING in it is TRUE, you can't PROVE that the reporter didn't embellish or add anything to it, and until you do, it's simply speculation.

[insane_cratic_gal]

38. No one is loosing elections over DSM

The only people laughing are Freepers. Usually it's nervous laughter because they know this administration is being caught with it's pants down.

Now I checked Raw story I saw something related to what you were saying but when I tried to get more information the RAW story link was also dead. So I can't find the original source of that info! Not on AP not on Capitan's crap blog.

The Butler Committee, a UK commission looking into WMD, has quoted the documents and accepted their authenticity, along with British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. Smith said all originals were destroyed in order to both protect the source and the journalist alike.

See the difference.. Whistle blower.. who ever leaked the docs to Straw! who deserves protection.

Now Rove: Criminal arrogant asshole.. who leaked the identity of a CIA operative to in retaliation for Wilson proving the intell on Iraq was fixed. (not a whistle blower he's a traitor to his country)

DSM hasn't gone away, everything Straw did was done under the eyes of a lawyer and verified so he didn't get this sort of dismissal. I don't even know if that interview is legit. There are no records backing it or discussion of it. ALL links are dead!

So the DSM is proved. It is not a conspiracy theory. It has not dropped off the map. Let the bastards laugh. Remember, He who laughs lasts, laughs best.

You want win elections, people only need to be presented with the facts. Bush Lies. His numbers are down. Republicans are lying to cover Bush and their asses now. Chimps Approval ratings are down, public opinion wants a democratic congress in 2006. We didn't have to do anything but step aside allow them to hang themselves.

[IndianaDemocrat]

40. And this is why I'm here....

"You want win elections, people only need to be presented with the facts. Bush Lies."

I thought 2004 would have PROVEN something? The "people" want to know what we will will do for the FUTURE, and how electing YOU will make thier lives better. And like it or not, the DSM is now percieved as simply another left-wing attack.

"His numbers are down."

Yes, they are. And our national leadership polls even crappier...

"Public opinion wants a democratic congress in 2006."

Perhaps, but merely wishing it so isn't going to make it HAPPEN!!!!

I keep coming back to the same point. If you want to WIN ELECTIONS, you have to offer a reasonable alternative to republican IDEAS.

"I Ain't Bush" is doing nothing but COSTING us seats everywhere...

Sorry if it's not the DU way, but it IS a voice from the trenches..

[blm]

44. So Bayh doesn't want DSM examined so you're here to excuse his dereliction

of duty.

So you're trying to convince us folks at DU to drop it because it can't be proven...well....what if a Senate panel called the WRITER of the minutes of the meeting in to testify?

You do know that Blair already admitted the minutes are authentic don't you? Or are you here to obfuscate that FACT?

[insane_cratic_gal]

21. Captian Quaters is right leaning blog

here is there qoute. GOP talking points if I ever saw one.

"The media and the Leftists have had a field day with the Downing Street memos that they claim imply that the Bush administration lied about the intelligence on WMD in order to justify the attack on Iraq."

You still haven't provided me with a link that says he Photo copied the orginal docs.

I couldn't find the link on RAW or did you mean the other right blog LGF.

There is nothing reported on AP that I have seen that link is dead.

[IndianaDemocrat]

23. "Captian Quaters is right leaning blog"

Yes it is, and opposition research is a GOOD thing...

The link to the AP story on Yahoo is dead for some reason. I DID read it, as did many others. The Memos may very well be ABSOLUTE FACT, but my point is, if you can't PROVE it, it's simply blowing in the wind.

The question was why they died in the MSM, and it boils down to if it's credible or not. WE may think so, but if your the guy sitting at the Editor's desk in some newspaper somewhere, is it worth your career?

[blm]

26. Funny, the KnightRidder reporters on the DSM story haven't been sued or

even called out by ONE rightwing source or Republican lawmaker for being inaccurate in their articles on DSM.

So....WTF are YOU talking about?

[Minstrel Boy]

32. "opposition research is a GOOD thing"

Using the opposition to support your argument is not.

The "memos" are "minutes," and they died in US corporate media because the truth was too terrible for its crime-abetting whores.

[Tommymac]

34. The Truth is always worth it.

And I see little evidence of verifiable truth in your posts - no links, just opinion and RW talking points. Opinion is cool, as long as it's not represented as fact. Please don't get so sensitive when we point that out - we are just trying to help; we are truthseekers...

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[iconoclastNYC]

29. Oh buddy you aren't going to make a lot of friends here.

The memos have been autheticated by members of the British government. The MSM got the story to go away because : "everyone knew Bush was lieing"

We cannot turn a blind eye to abuse of power. And that's what you are advocating. You say that's just 'bashing.'

How did the bashing thing work out for the Republicans during Clinton? Oh yeah it hurt Gore enuf so that Bush was close enuf to steal it.

Your point of view is suspect.

[IndianaDemocrat]

35. "Oh buddy you aren't going to make a lot of friends here."

Probably NOT...

But then, I didn't come here to make friends, I came here to WIN ELECTIONS. I have been watching this board for a couple of months now, and decided it was time to chime in...

"We cannot turn a blind eye to abuse of power."

Of course not...
But until you WIN, you can't change ANYTHING, can you?

24/7 bashing may be fun, but in the end it obscures whatever message we are trying to get out. We have to offer a Viable ALTERNATIVE to republicans, not try and outshout them.

And it starts with you folks. The Party survives with YOU, not Paid "Volunteers" from California trying to convince Indiana and Ohio locals to vote Democrat. And I fear that's what we are being reduced to...

[iconoclastNYC]

42. I think you are here to bash democrats.

Everything you say seems to be negative,none of it new or insightful either, btw.

You seem to think that we should just ignore the fact that Republicans are corrupt and smear us and use every dirty trick in the book and just keep 'on message' or something.

They took the house in 1992 by running against the house leader's ethic problems and the house checking scandal. are you blind to history?

Voter discontent WINS elections. Democrats are going to exploit it. Go ahead and think that's stupid.

[IndianaDemocrat]

46. The Truth Never tends to Insightful, it just is...

<<<Everything you say seems to be negative,none of it new or insightful either, btw.>>>

LOL!!
Ok....
Look at it from where I'M sitting...
My best friend just took a County Democrat Chair in a County that NO ONE seemed to want, and in which the Democrat HQ didn't even open during the 2004 elections. (In a couple of months, when we get around to Fund-raising, I'll post which one!!!)

He is now faced with literally begging people to fill a slate of local candidates for the 2006 elections, in a county that 25 years ago no Republican had a HOPE of winning anything...

And that's the position I come from.

"Voter discontent WINS elections. Democrats are going to exploit it"

If you can't prevail in the marketplace of ideas, you're in trouble to begin with. Discontent helps, but when that soccer mom pulls the lever, she isn't going to do it because of a memo, she's doing it for what is best for her FAMILY....

"Go ahead and think that's stupid."

I DON'T think it's stupid, but I DO think it's bad politics...

[blm]

48. Having an honest government that doesn't lie the country into war IS best

for her family in the long run. There's less chance of blowback in our own country which usually targets INNOCENT civilians like HER FAMILY.

I am quite sure Kerry's healthcare plan was best for that soccer mom and so were his plans for alternative fuel research and justice on working issues, but the media chose to not discuss those issues with her and so they edited those parts of his campaign speeches and left them in the trash.

[blm]

45. YOU are wrong. Blair admitted the memo was real. CATCH UP TO THE FACTS.

Your claims are HORSEP_.

[newyawker99]

47. Hi IndianaDemocrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[blm]

25. Horsep. It's NOT speculative and Tony Blair admitted the DSM is authentic.

Seems to ne that YOU have a perception problem.

Every fact the reporter brought up has held.

Why isn't Evan Bayh demanding the Senate Intel Committee finish its job investigating the WH use of Iraq intel and especially in light of the UK memos?

[IndianaDemocrat]

31. Perception Problem?

"Seems to ne that YOU have a perception problem."

Perhaps, but I'm definately NOT alone. It may make for great message board fodder, but it won't win any VOTES in the trenches unless it's PROVEN.

Look...
I live in an area that was SOLID DEM 20 years ago, and today you'll hardly find anybody willing to admit they are a Democrat, and those of us that do, get hammered over issues EXACTLY like this. We can't even find people willing to run for local office as a Dem anymore.

And issues like this aren't helping...

[insane_cratic_gal]

41. No one ever won anything without fighting

for it.

you can sit back and convince yourself that your fighting for elections. So be it. You have to learn to defend and counter those attacks. That's just the political environment of today, it's reality and it's ugly. We didn't choose this road, they did.

I'm not willing to be told by someone that I'm a laughing stock because the truth is on a piece of photocopies paper.
So is my Drivers License, ss card, birth certificate all photocopied for their records and allow me to get a job. Photocopied form the original. ORIGINAL. It's been AUTHENTICATED.

[blm]

43. So you DEMAND your Senator sign DSM letter so PROOF becomes known.

YOU think it's a nonissue and several KnightRidder finalists for the Pulitzer Prize for INVESTIGATIVE reporting DISAGREE with your claim.

Why are you having a problem distinguishing the FACTS about the DSM and supporting further inquiry which will PUT the story back on the front page?

You may think you have no perception problem, but, you DO. Anyone who concludes that the memo is speculative as you did in your post has a problem discerning FACTS.

[Goldmund]

5. Easy -- we'll get there too, via Traitorgate Express

[insane_cratic_gal]

6. When Rove appeared on it

But have faith that the DSM, and the Plame investigation are all interrelated. I believe that DSM fixed intell was referring to the yellow cake (bogus information)

[Imagevision]

7. I believe Fitzgerald is well aware of DSM and ties to Rove leak

recommend this story - keep it going bubba!

[garybeck]

11. never

it falls off the radar when WE SAY SO

[lonestarnot]

14. Well Not in AZ! We are making sure of it! Don't let it die in

your state either! If you do you should feel guilty!
www.freewayblogger.com

[LynneSin]

15. Rove bumped him off and now this nominatio is bumping off Rove

isn't it lovely

:sarcasm:

[jobycom]

30. Exactly. Bush is one long story of scandals bumping off other scandals

We're still being played. From Cheney's Energy Commission til now, every time Bush needed a break from one scandal, he introduced another one to take its place.

[Zen Democrat]

18. I think the whole Plame matter is about intelligence fixing ...

it's all part of the same thing.

[mod mom]

20. Me and several hundred others will be hosting DSM Parties through out the

Country thanks to John Conyers and other progressive groups. Go to Conyersblog.org and signup in a location near you. There will be a conference call with Ambassador Joe Wilson and radio show host extraordinaire Randi Rhodes. Sat July 23rd!

[iconoclastNYC]

28. The MSM is a tool, it's not a BE ALL, end ALL

The American Revolution was formented using phamplets. We have the Internet.

(and yes i know that the American Revolution was for the upper class and not for the people)

[smartvoter]

33. Rovegate.

[ComerPerro]

36. About the time people started finally paying attention to the Plame leak

[Tommymac]

37. It is still there...

And won't go away. I don't beleive Rove or Roberts turned the volume down on this one...IMHO it was the attack on London.

This is primarily a British investigation...and the Brits are a bit preoccupied at the moment...but I'm sure they will get back to it.

Without fresh info from the Brits, there is not a lot of new stuff to report...once that happens it will come back.

Also, it does link into the Rove Scandel...it was all about the run up to war. I'm sure that the prosecutor's in the Rove case will touch on it at some point.

[hippiegranny]

39. it didn't... but the new name for it is

Rovegate. It is ALL ONE STORY and that is the certainty that THEY fixed the facts, cooked the books, and played the politics of personal destruction in order to march off to an illegal invasion. It all boils down to the same thing.