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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:39 PM
Original message
Breaking Bloomberg report suggest both perjury and obstruction for Rove
and for Libby

Halleluliah, we have the fuckers!

http://www.thinkprogress.org/


Rove, Libby Accounts in CIA Case Differ With Those of Reporters

By Richard Keil

July 22 (Bloomberg) — Two top White House aides have given accounts to the special prosecutor about how reporters told them the identity of a CIA agent that are at odds with what the reporters have said, according to persons familiar with the case.

Lewis “Scooter'’ Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, told special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald that he first learned from NBC News reporter Tim Russert of the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame, the wife of former ambassador and Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson. Russert has testified before a federal grand jury that he didn’t tell Libby of Plame’s identity.

White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove told Fitzgerald that he first learned the identity of the CIA agent from syndicated columnist Robert Novak, who was first to report Plame’s name and connection to Wilson. Novak, according to a source familiar with the matter, has given a somewhat different version to the special prosecutor.


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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Keil really knows his stuff! He was on Charley Rose this week.
He saw Ari reading this "memo" on AF One. Keil really explained how significant this memo was. He said Ari badmouthed Wilson but never mentioned Valerie. So Ari sure knew what the (S) meant.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Listen to Mike Malloy speak about this right now!
www.airamericaradio.com
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nice going and can Robert Novak be charged as an accessory
...before and after the fact?
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. What's curious is how Novak seems to be skating through this
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Novak sang like a canary with his chestnuts held over an open fire....
...I'm suprised that he hasn't met with an "accident" by now.
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bejammin075 Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
41. Novak sang early, but probably lied...
that's my hunch.
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A Simple Game Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
46. If I recall correctly,
Novak "fell" in the bathtub, and broke a hip or leg awhile ago.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #46
62. Poetic justice - he slipped on soap scum?
He really needs to keep his shoes on.
http://www.usenet.com/newsgroups/misc.activism.progressive/msg06064.html
"November 20, 2003 (FTW), WASHINGTON -- In a case eerily reminiscent of
the death of British Ministry of Defense bio-weapons expert, Dr. David
Kelly, an official of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence
and Research Near East and South Asian division (INR/NESA), John J.
Kokal, 58, was found dead in the late afternoon of November 7. Police
indicated he may have jumped from the roof of the State Department.
Kokal's body was found at the bottom of a 20 foot window well, 8
floors below the roof of the State Department headquarters near the
23rd and D Street location. Kokal's death was briefly mentioned in a
FOX News website story on November 8 but has been virtually overlooked
by the major media."
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Suppose Novak "cut a deal"
I have a gut feeling that Novak has the best lawyer of all of them. Don't see him on the tube anymore. The last time I did see him, he said his lawyer told him to say NOTHING! I also think that perhaps he's cut a deal with the Prosecuter for "Immunity" already, and Sang LIKE A CANARY!! We know from this article that he has spoken to the Prosecuter! Wouldn't this be great? Oh, I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for that one!!:think:
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Won't happen
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 12:28 AM by ruggerson
he's too thick with Rove. He caused Rove to get fired once before. He will protect Rove with lies to the end. It's more likely Novak will get embroiled legally than to sing.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Novak will soon learn that w/ friends like Rove, he won't need enemies
I predict that Novak did sing like a canary but in the end he'll pay the price for his involvement in multiple ways.

I also predict that KKKarl is going down in the flames of hell that have a special spot reserved for him.... :evilgrin:
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. Novak will end hopefully a broken man, totally dispised all sides, bastard
It's been implied elsewhere that he gave them alot to save himself from contempt charges and jail and has been the foundation for how scoooooter and turdman are looking at perjury charges.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
50. What, loyalty among scum? No way.
Novak will do whatever is best for Novak.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
51. What, loyalty among scum? No way.
Novak will do whatever is best for Novak.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
60. Check out the law
he didn't do anything illegal unless he lied to the grand jury. The law about outing CIA applies to govt employees only. Novak did something slimy, reprehensible and stupid, but it wasn't illegal as long as he testified truthfully. He didn't need immunity as long as he told them who his sources were. Since the law does not apply to reporters, he couldn't even plead the fifth. So if he testified, he coughed up the names. And it appears he did testify.

This is getting to be more and more fun. A group of journalists just filed a protest with some group that was going to give Miller a medal. Said, "covering up for lying thugs is not what journalism is about."
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Please offer them both a deal in exchange for the Big Fish
Dick and the Chimp, who have perpetrated a cover-up and conspiracy to hide this information from the prosecutor. If they add treason, maybe they can pile up so many potential years of hard time that both Rove and Libby will get scared and offer to cut a deal in exchange for singing their asses off and testifying against the even bigger criminals.
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Red Rover, Red Rover, send KKKarl on over.......
"Time for your deposition, Mr. Rove. Have a seat."
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Loving it !
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
66. Maybe we should make him the next Mars "Rover" where he belongs!
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 10:37 AM by calipendence
Always felt that guy was from a place like that... Would like to see him replicate that scene that Arnie did in Total Recall with him gasping for air. On the other hand, if there is life on Mars, it might give them a bad impression of us and give Tom Cruise's latest movie more relevance too!
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OhNoTheyDidNot Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ah - no treason charges ? I wanted them to get the death penalty
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. Now that's a bit much to wish for...
With today's legal system it would be difficult at least to convict on Treason... let alone secure the death penalty.

That and it's kind of Repugnant to wish for someone's death.

(Besides, it's always more fun to watch them become 'born again Christians' afterward... oh, wait...)
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wanpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sh$% meet fan! This is really getting ugly...
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
kick
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. kickin
I think pressuring public officials to have a separate investigation is in order. I thnk it should be Du Actist homework every day of the week, and we should sign other folks up to the task as well. Until the job is done. . .
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Boy, it looks like they had dig-ged hole very deep... I wonder, how
in the world they're going to dig themselves out?
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Montauk6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. OK, SOMEONE'S either gonna resign or receive a Medal of Honor
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hilarious! Mindlessly loyal Tim Russert hung out to dry
by Bushbot Scooter Libby! We can look forward to Russert twisting himself inside out to try to support the Bush administration, when it basically has accused Russert of lying to the Grand Jury. Maybe this experience will wipe that smirking, sneering inuendo -laden look off Russert's face.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yes, "reporters being used as shields" Judith Miller willingly so (?)
"The leak case shows that administration officials have in effect been using reporters as shields by claiming that the information on Plame first came from them."

This is the basis of their awakening from their long 4 1/2 year slumber, maybe 5 1/2 counting the 2000 campaign
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Oh well I guess it's that dam Liberal Media again...
Oh, well didn't Mike Bloomberg speak at that big death rally at Madison Square Garden last year?
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. please explain more about what you mean, please. I know
Russert told Fitz that Scooter told him, but what else?
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wanpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Good for him. I can't stand his lapdog interviews if you can call them
that. He lets repugs get away with murder on his show! Now those same folks he's sucked up to are feeding him to the sharks!
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
69. No honor among thieves.
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cybildisobedience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. zeroed in on the same thing
Oh, the irony: These whores, who prostituted themselves on the altar of Bush, getting hung out to dry. I wonder how much loyalty Russert feels to the Bush cabal now.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
77. if he's getting paid....they money is still green with or w/out integrity
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. Actual story is up now with Bloomberg link:
Edited on Thu Jul-21-05 11:49 PM by ruggerson
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=an7SakVWGrTQ&refer=us


Can a mod pls add this link to the OP? My editing period has expired. Thnx.
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SensibleCenterist Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
19. Don't laugh people
Pretty soon someone in the White House will claim they got the Plame name from YOU!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. OK! I ADMIT IT!
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 02:31 AM by Dr_eldritch
I was TOLD her identity by.........

The stay-puft marshmallow man;




(C'mon... ya gotta admit the resemblance...)

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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
23. KICK!!!!!!!(nt)
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. Bloomberg story now LEAD STORY on Huffpost
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
26. kick
kick
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
27. kick
kick
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. And for Bush and Cheney...
Conspiracy to suborn perjury and obstruct justice.

Unfortunately, with one-party rule, we'll never be able to nail them for it. And as long as we have one-party rule, nothing can happen.

:scared:
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adnelson60087 Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. I disagree...
according to the polls, the US citizenry is finally paying attention to something other than Michael Jackson or the runaway bride. They are looking at this mess with Rove, and believe me, no matter how sick the Republican party may be with neocons, they are all politicians, and don't want to draw the ire of the voting public on something as insidious as this CIA-Outing. They will come around, IF the public demands it. And I think they WILL demand it...
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. I hope you're correct.
I feel that this *should* happen.

But many in the House have secure seats. They can continue their stonewalling and obstruction ad nauseum and not be held accountable as long as the RW screech machine is still operating.

Okay, I don't have the numbers on this, but it would be nice to know how many Rep seats in the House are considered *secure*. Also, I'd like to know how many Dem seats are vulnerable. That would tell us a lot about how likely it is that the ball can be put into play before the 2006 elections.

At any rate, we should try, and keep on trying.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. The "ire of the...
voting public" can have consequences for Bushco only to the degree
that how people vote actually has any bearing on who wins whatever office. I don't see any real hope of meaningful election reform with this current bunch christo-republifascists that run the House and Senate. A well entrenched fascist regime (and that is what we've
got) will not be displaced by an opposition party working "within the
system."
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
82. Hi Mr_Jefferson_24!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
53. Republicans should look after America not save their own ****s
How long can a political party rally around those who are corrupt within their own party. The GOP should come clean, despite having a majority in all branches of govt. You would think America would rise above this and its govt not equate itself to some junta in a non-developed Banana Republic.
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
35. Now, let me get this straight.
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 05:14 AM by lfairban
According to Robert Novak, Valerie Wilson was widely known to be a CIA operative among Washington Journalists, but the White House only learned of it on July 7, 2003 from a classified memo.

Why do I find this hard to believe?
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Supporting link
"Novak has also claimed that Plame's CIA employment was an "open secret" in Washington DC, indicating that effective "affirmative measures" to conceal her relationship to the CIA were not being taken. Several ex-CIA operatives who knew Plame have disputed this and indicated that she was at one time a NOC (nonofficial cover) covert operative. Larry Johnson has stated that Wilson "agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport caught in that status she would have been executed." <10>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
36. No one is blaming junior...WHY?
No one on the left is pointing blame to the man ultimately responsible. Does anyone here believe for a second that junior wasn't aware of what was going on all around him for one second.

If we don't have junior implicated all he will do is pardon Libby & Rove and they will back working for junior in a month.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Conspiracy to incite a war?
They(the neocons)were pissed at Wilson for threatening their grand plan! I think Bush was in on this up to his beady little eyeballs. The objective in the outing of the CIA agent was, to discredit Wilson's contention that Saddam did not have anything with which to, create the "mushroom Cloud," that the world was being lied to about.

I think if the investigation broadens the house of cards will start to tumble. If the case goes on until 06 and the GOPers lose control of congress, the Top Dawgs might just do some hard time. What would really be fun, is if the people who may have committed war crimes, were turned over to an international tribunal for trial.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #36
63. Hopefully, They Are Carefully Building A Case
Bush testified to the grand jury. He had to have been involved - that means to me he had to have lied.
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rrrevolution Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
37. Unindicted Co-conspirators Bush & Cheney Lied to Fitz?
The stage is now set for Bush & Cheney to emerge as part of the conspiracy to coverup at the WH.

Anyone see the irony of this situation?

Watergate got President Nixon b/c of his role in the coverup, not the breakin. Nixon ordered Ron Zeigler to "stonewall" press questions, which did not work. Nixon WH denied any involvement up to the time that tapes proved the WH was involved. The whole affair was not revealed until an insider turned and cut a deal with the prosecutor. Nixon resigned office but was quickly pardoned by Ford the new President.

It sounds like this WH has taken their cues right out of the Nixon Watergate strategy handbook(which by the way did not work out so well for Nixon and his top officials).
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #37
49. Welcome to DU
"this WH has taken their cues right out of the Nixon Watergate strategy handbook." Why this has worked heretofore for ShrubCo:

1) Complicit media, which Nixon did not have;

2) RW hate radio propeganda, which Nixon did not have;

3) A government under one party control, which Nixon did not have.

Big reasons why this strategy has worked so well for ShrubCo. I think the cabal makes the Nixon Administration look downright clean.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
78. You're correct on all three, but I see a slim ray of hope:
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 02:50 PM by ktowntennesseedem
1) Complicit media: They've turned a blind eye on most every mistake and lie made by this administration, but they seem to be turning on them with this story. Enough people seem to be interested in this mess, and if the media sense they can get an edge on the competition by giving the public what they want to hear, they're going to keep this story up front for a while.

2) RW hate radio propaganda: These bags-of-wind are just as hate-filled and deceitful as ever, but maybe (big maybe, I know) the louder they yell and scream, the less credible they become and the more a slowly-awakening public will tend to ignore their anger and lies.

3) A government under one party control: Even this one party has to get reelected next November, and unless they wish to put all their faith in Diebold, some in jeopardy of becoming a civilian in '07 might just decide not to ride on Chimp's coattails and stand up against their party's traitors. (Another big maybe) All in all, the timing on this thing couldn't be better.

Plenty of hurdles yet to jump, but so far we've jumped more than I ever thought possible.

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
83. Hi rrrevolution!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
40. How STUPID would they have to be to get class. info from reporters?
Duhhhh, I'm only the President's deputy chief of staff.... I don't know nothin' bout no CIA agents....

:eyes:

They really do think we're stupid.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
43. Ruh Roh
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 07:55 AM by in_cog_ni_to
looks like some liars are in BIG trouble! :woohoo: Wilson writes his op-ed on July 6, the CIA requests the info on Plame July 7, and Novak writes his article on July 14. UNREAL. I see Tim Russert was used by Libby as an excuse and Russert has already testified and is walking around free. Will the journalists learn ANYTHING from this? The WH would gladly let THEM take the fall for this treasonous, illegal activity.

Fitzgerald's term ends in October. Can it be extended? How does that work?
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #43
65. Novak Had His Info July 8
He talked to a friend of Wilson's on July 8 and outed Valerie to the friend.
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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
44. This is going to lead to the showdown at "the OK Corral" - if
Bush doesn't fire Rove, and Cheney fire Libby - the demand for the impeachment of both Bush and Cheney will be bigger than Nixon's --

Possible scenario: then this country will have to hold it's breath - Bush could go off the deep end and declare marshall law/dictatorship with the urging of Cheney - and being surrounded by neocons - there won't be anyone to talk him down.

The next question is: which side will the army stand with?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. That's always been my question about the military.
They must know the filth that oozes from this WH? They must know he is killing their fellow soldiers because of LIES? Maybe someone like Wes Clark will speak to them and show them the path they should take? Lets hope. :scared:
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #44
55. This is what may happen?
there are rumors that the cabal will organize 'an event' ranging from hits on school buses nationwide to a full scale terrorist attack. Look out for the suicide bombers in the Chicago subway near Fitz's grand jury. I suppose you can't believe all these conspiracies theories though?????:evilfrown:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #55
67. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RickWn Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
48. Nothing would please me more
Nothing would please me more than to see two of the most vicious liars ever to grace the political scene, finally get caught in their own web of lies.

It pains me, but I know with certainty that Chimp and Dick(head) will not take a fall over this scandal. As stupid as each of them are, they each learned early on that old mafia trick of "plausible deniablity", i.e. "I didn't know. I wasn't there."

Above and beyond any conviction of Libby or Rove and even the scumbag Novak, what I would most like to see result from this unfolding scandal is an eye-opening revelation for the American public clearly showing the corruption of politics that masquarades as a Grand Old Party.
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Cugel the Clever Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #48
59. Scandal with wings
The Plame scandal is merely peripheral to the overall deception that lead to the Iraq War. It is a detail in the story of the most corrupt Administration in American history. If it leads to Rove's elimination, that would be great.

I would love to see all of the BushCo Admin in jail, that's where they belong, but I don't see the masses suddenly waking up because of this nasty little bit of treason.

The Bush Administration is supported by people whose personal identity is tied to what they perceive as "Christian". Bush and his minions have successfully indoctrinated a large number of these frightened people with various flaming straw men. They are logic proof- Bush can do no wrong, because that would mean God is wrong. They target the "Other"- gays, teen Moms, dark skins, people with an education- and feel superior in their conflation of the spiritual and political.

Eventually, as Michael Savage exhorts daily, they will start locking up all these "Others". The "Others" are barely human and dangerous, to eliminate them would be safest and can logically be justified in those terms.

It is the path we are on and a path that has been tread before.
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RickWn Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #59
75. Agree with all except
I agree with all your analysis except for the part about the masses not waking up. It took them awhile during the McCarthy era and awhile during the Watergate era, but they eventually sat up and took notice.

Is it safe to assume that 49% of the country is already hip to the corruption called BushCo? A few more percentage points will surely move our way as the scandal unfolds.

Actually, I think a larger percentage will move our way, up to a point where 65% of the public comes down squarely against BushCo and any further GOP shennanigans. I note in a lot of polls that there is often a 35% threshhold of knuckle-headed voters who are so devoutely GOP even another DNA stained dress would be this time "compassionately" overlooked.

As for those Christians, I am a big proponent of taxing televangelists.
"Bought a TV station with your non-profit profits, did ya Reverand? Meet Charles. He'll be your new IRS auditor-in-chief."
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
52. I'll tell you why the press is interested
Edited on Fri Jul-22-05 09:25 AM by melissinha
Inlike the DSM, unlike Clarke and O'Neill rolling over on them... this has now turned into a scandal.

MSM likes scandals.... keep em thinking its a scandal and they'll cover it...


As for lfairban's comments:
According to Robert Novak, Valerie Wilson was widely known to be a CIA operative among Washington Journalists, but the White House only learned of it on July 7, 2003 from a classified memo.

Why do I find this hard to believe?


Like all of the logic-barren excuses coming from the Neo-con spinroom, how can they explain that the leak occured within days of Wilson's article and after Rove reportedly spoke with reporters...not WAAAAAY before if the Washington Media knew it all along? Oh please.


Its a scandal.... I say we pay some lip-service to SCOTUS nom... but this is the big prize.
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
54. According to Podhertz at free republic
libby wouldn't lie because he's been through an honesty class.

"Is somebody lying? Maybe -- but on the other hand maybe there's a lot of weaseling going on here and some of it is Tim Russert's. Knowing as his lawyer must have that the criminally dangerous portion of the statute being invoked requires the actual use of Plame's name, maybe Russert told the special prosecutor he didn't use the NAME. "Joe Wilson's wife" is not Valerie Plame's name. In addition, if both men used the "to the best of my recollection" terminology when talking before the grand jury, then there will be no way to reconcile these details. You can't indict one person for perjury in a two-way conversation if their testimony conflicts -- I mean, I guess you could, but you could never make the case stick without independent confirmation."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1448323/posts

This freeper post will leave you wondering about this man's sanity.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
80. As hot as it is don't dehydrate yourself for the sake of a freeper
DEFINITELY laugh!

Those morons collectively can't find their own way out of a bag...what a flacid, disgusting, flabby brained group they make.

Every time I read a freeper post I picture Jabba the hut (or whatever that thing's name is) typing feverishly somewhere in right winger bizarro world!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
57. Perhaps The Universe Is Getting Ready To Regain Balance
rough seas ahead, mates.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
58. Chickens always come home to roost...
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...

:nopity:
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
61. Go get'em Marshall justice is long overdue.
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evil eggplant Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
64. smirk wiped off hannitys face
I can't wait to see the smirk wiped off hannitys face.
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buddha8 Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
68. out Rove as Gay
Sorry but its time to dispense with all the legalities and do exactly what Rove with do if he was having to deal with himself. It is so simple and it is staring us all in the face.

Its commonly held beltway knowledge that Rove is a gay man and been seen at gay watering holes around the city. There needs to be now a 24/7 lurid tale told of his escapades complete with old playmates showing up on cameras giving interviews and all manner of salacious tales. This will effectively and immediately end his career. It is long since, long since time that the Left employ some of the same tactics used so effectively against them. It is incredibly silly that the one weapon that would be used against any of our side should go unused against theirs. Sorry to discuss this in such terms but do you want to remove this man from the scene and discredit him forever? Do you want to put a stain on Bush much,much dirtier than the one left on the Blue dress? Oh, you don't sink that low? Think again. Rove is by virtue of his machinations a killer,an architect for mass murder,treason,world instability,grand theft,etc. and you are telling me you can't stoop to this level. You would rather wait for the Special Prosecutor. This guy is much smarter than Fitzgerald.

Rove must be outed and it must be the talk of the town 24/7. What happens to their Christian base when they learn to their horror that the man closest to their beloved President is flaming and 'perverted'. I say go the whole 9 yards. Uncover it all. Find out if he likes to dress up or get whipped or if he does little boys. A man like this is a sadist and is more than likely to express his sadism and masochism sexually as well.

And incidentally. How about Bush? A guy who surrounds himself with homosexuals like Rove and McClellan? A guy who loudly overcompensates for his cowardice by posing as a Texas tough guy. Is he overcompensating for being gay as well? Quite possibly. You out Rove and you get the goods on Gannon. You then find out what in the world he was doing staying overnight in the White House on countless occasions. Then all hell breaks loose.

Progressives have never understood how to talk to the lower class. Sorry but its a fact. The only thing the lower class which is a large chunk of the bush base could not stomach are homosexuals in and around the White House. Mass Murder and treason and War Crimes are no big deal but Homos are out, last straw. Wake up people! What was it that got Clinton? Its the Blue Dress, Stupid!
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #68
70. Gannonizing?
if this is true then the Republicans are really hypocritical. They preach homophobia yet they are 'Gannonizing?'
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #68
73. That is the absolute wrong approach.
I think Buddha would disagree, too.

Rove has broken the law. Let the chips fall where they may, but there's no point in stooping to his level. I'm just sayin'
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RickWn Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. Sorry, but I can't agree with this "strategy"
It seems like you are suggesting we work to "out" Rove as a homosexual, as if that is something he should be ashamed of. I'm a heterosexual myself, but I've always thought that one of the great inclusive things about the Democrats is we proudly welcome all regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race or creed.

What your are suggesting, looked at another way, would be something like, "Let's out the fact his great-great-great grandmother was a Negro slave. He's part Negro." Now, of course, that's not true, but even if it was, why should such a revelation be a source of shame? Aren't we the party proud of our humanity... all inclusive and welcoming? How could we possibly, in good conscience, attack someone, shame someone, based on the mere fact of their race, gender, creed or sexual orientation?

That's not the Democrat's way. That's not the Democrat party. Let's stick to what really counts across all cultural and political philosophy: Is the person a liar, a cheat, financially corrupt, abusive of the public trust, a libeler or one who would slander another for personal gain? Is he personally a coward? Can he be shown as one who would non-chalantly send others off to fight his battles, but clearly afraid to lead the charge uphill himself?

We need to stay on message and continue our journey down the high road. We have more practiced ethics in one pinkey of the Democrat party than in both hands of the GOP. Let's not forget that.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. Unless Rove is coming out and doing things against gays...
... I say leave it alone! It's not about whether he's a gay or not (though it might be for some of the Rethuglican constituency). It's whether he's a hypocrite or not. If he's hypocritical about it and these are more than just "rumors" than I say by all means expose him, just like we expose Bill Bennett gambling because that's hypocritical for him, not because we disagree with his gambling. If his base doesn't like that he's gay, or that Bill Bennett's fans don't like that he gambles, that's their problem to deal with. But I'm not directing "outing" of folks like this just to their concerns. That makes us hypocrites.

Randy "Duke" Cunningham is also rumored to have been gay. (Google it and you can find it) That's more relevant in the search for Rethuglican hypocrisy, since Cunningham's noted for calling gays "homos" on the House floor and working against them too. It's more relevant to expose Roy Cohn as a gay, since he and Joseph McCarthy destroyed many gay people's lives back in the 50's too.

Karl Rove may be an ugly frog who's a gay as well, but unless he makes it an issue, I'll deal with the issues that he's guilty of that are far more injurious to the rest of us than him being gay.

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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #68
84. Since when is this "commonly held beltway knowledge?"
We all know about Mehlman and Scotty, but this is the first I've heard of Rove (other than joking about it).
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
71. From David Corn's blog
From DavidCorn.com
Dated Friday July 22


Rove Scandal: A Conspiracy Charge for the White House?
By David Corn

As I write, the news is zapping across the Internet that Bloomberg has reported that Karl Rove and Scooter Libby have given testimony to the Plame/CIA leak grand jury that was contradicted by the accounts of others . . . .

Interesting. And below is what I had written prior to this news. It now may be even more relevant:

I'm no lawyer, though I do--as a talking head--have to play one on TV occasionally. And it seems in recent years (and weeks) that to talk politics you have to know something about law, particularly criminal law. The Rove scandal overflows with legal commentary from folks who aren't lawyers who do their best to understand the relevant laws and folks who are (GOP) lawyers who do their best to ignore and misrepresent the law. In any event, looking for guidance, I called an old friend, who once was a federal prosecutor and now is a well-established lawyer in Washington. He investigated the mob. He's a Democrat, but hardly a partisan. I asked what he thought was up with Plame/CIA leak investigation. He has picked up some rumors within the DC lawyer's community, but he has no direct contact with the investigation. Still, he has a few interesting observation.

"What this really boils down to at the moment," he says, "is this: should Karl Rove have a security clearance? That's the real question. Would he be given a security clearance if what's now known had been known at the time he applied for clearance? In his job, at his level, he sees lots of secrets. People at a lot lower level would lose their security clearance for this immediately." This former prosecutor, of course, is referring to the media revelations--confirmed by Rove's own lawyer--that Rove told at least two journalists (Robert Novak and Matt Cooper) about Valerie Wilson's relationship to the CIA, which was classified information. "This is a national security issue," he continues. "If you were a Tom, Dick or Harry and involved in that, you'd lose your security clearance. Period . . . .

So what's my friend's best guess about what Fitzgerald is trying to do? Obviously, he says, it would be easier for him to make a "false statements case" than to prosecute a case under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. (Regular readers by now know why.) But, he goes on, there's another way he could tackle this; check out Title 18, Section 371, of the US Code, he advises. It's entitled "Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud the United States."

Read more.

Mr. Corn has been on top of this story from the time it broke in July 2003. He is one of the targets of the current right wing smear campaign.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
72. CSPAN now
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obliocactus Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
74. Work the GOP domination to our advantage
It's tempting to say, well, we can't do anything with the GOP controlling everything. Just ask yourself, what would happen if the situation were exactly opposite -- a corrupt Democratic administration with the Democratics also controlling Congress and a lot of the judiciary? The outrageousness of this would be shouted from the rooftops day and night by the GOP until the power shifted.

We, too, need to constantly express outrage and indignance at how Republican control has gone too far and is resulting in corruption and the destruction of our country. Get them out of power. 2006!

Second point: I'm all for outing Rove if he's gay, but I doubt it will have much more effect than outing Mehlman or any other Republicans with the base. They are hypocrites on every single issue, and will play their poker hand the most powerful way they can, no matter what.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
81. When is this all gonna come to a head and indictment's are handed out?
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modom5 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
85. CIA Leak
Hopefully they will dig deep enough and find Bush & Cheney were also involved.
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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Well if Fitz has the two on perjury to GJ & O.O.J. then he
can squeeze them to at least give up Cheney.

If he got Cheney, one thing I dont doubt is that Cheney would give up
Bush whom I'm sure he things of as inferior.
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