A discussion about The Plame Affair on another board *rolling eyes*

[GreenPartyVoter]

Me:

At the moment this is uncorroborated, but Bloomberg News has slotted a story stating that special prosecutor Fitzgerald is investigating charges of false testimony/perjury by White House staffers, obstruction of justice, and the leaking of classified information that put national security at risk.

Right now I have to say is it too much to ask our gov't officials to behave themselves when in office?

Watergate

The Iran Contra Affair

MonicaGate

TreasonGate

How many gates do we have to put up with?



A RWer:

Are you talking about Sandy Berger and his destruction of documents from the National Archives??? I think he got a slap on the wrist for his crimes. Or Hillary Clinton and her illegally obtaining FBI files on Republicans? Nope you libs liked her for that.
But since you're a lib you must be talking about KarlRove the Magnificent. And it appears that Valerie Plame was telling everybody she knew that she was a CIA desk analyst. Hell, she told her Joe Wilson on their second date. And all the reporters knew where she worked because they were calling Mr. Rove about it. Also even the writers on the law on outing CIA agents said Rove broke no law and committed no crimes.

So, what's the fuss about?? Oh right, Karl Rove is Bush's Brain and if he's gone you'll impeach Bush next.


Me:

What's with the "you libs" crap?

You want to make an argument about issues, fine, but drop the invectives.

This has been under investigation for two years. The judges involved clearly felt there was a serious issue here or it never would have gotten to the point it has.

However it is still unclear as to who called whom and who knew what. Apparently you feel that the Plames outed Valerie themselves and that Rove is an innocent in all this. I say we wait and see what the investigation turns up.

[wurzel]

1. How about "Traitors Gate". That really exists.

[nankerphelge]

2. hmmmm....

If everyone knew, why is CNN saying the memo was marked secret? Pose that question to Mr. Dumbass:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/21/cia.leak/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Come on, you know

facts don't matter to a majorly partisan person.

[BeatleBoot]

3. You probably lost him with the word, "invectives"

Or scared him away...

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. It's a her. Not a lot of guys post on the

Romantic Times forum. Go figure. :P

[nankerphelge]

6. That explains it...

she's got romantic feelings about Karl that are blinding her to the truth. He is quite a hottie.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. *lol*

[jsamuel]

4. There is so much disinformation in that RWer's post it is ridiculous

The media made a mistake in allowing these kinds of misinformation to be propagated during the election. It is time that they take these false statements and broadcast the factual fallacy of those talking points.

[teach1st]

9. Here's what I say to those who play the Berger card...

On April 1, 2005, in connection with the documents investigation, Berger pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material. Under a plea agreement, he was fined $10,000 and lost his security clearance for three years.

Now, imagine Berger had taken the info he removed and used it maliciously, which hurt an ongoing undercover investigation into nuclear weapons and terrorism. Further, suppose he used the info as a political tool in support of the Clintons to supress some damaging info.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Thanks. All excellent points. I ended up using them almost word for word.

Hope you don't mind!

He pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material. He paid a $10,000 fine and he lost his security clearance for three years.

Is this a slap on the wrist? Maybe.

What he did not do was use the material maliciously, did not spread the word of it and compromise national security in doing so.

So while there is some precedent here in terms of inappropriate use of classified material, we are not looking at the same type of situation in the Plame Affair. However if what Berger got was a slap on the wrist then I am sure you will join me in hoping that the people who compromised Plame's missions, front company, and contacts are dealt with according to the severity of their crimes.

[burrowowl]

12. Exactly!

People should go to H2O's post on Vince B wherein perjury to defend oneself and perjury covering commission of harm is discussed.

PS: I bookmarked your site and look at it later to see if I'll keep it bookmarked.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Thanks. I am going to ask someone to help me make a really

basic timeline of information about the case (nothing too overwhelming or the Rove-is-innocent people won't read it.)

[wli]

11. not a coincidence some figures here are involved in all four

[walldude]

13. Your "friend" is going to be in for a shock

tomorrow morning when both the NYT and the WSJ report that the memo that was passed around on Air Force 1 was clearly marked Top Secret, and it had an additional notation specific to Valerie Plame: "SNF," or "Secret, No Foreign," which means not even allied foreign intelligence is allowed to know her status. So the spin is going down the shitter, along with Rove's and Libby's careers... There is an Olbermen interview with the WSJ posted on www.crooksandliars.com , tells about tommorows story.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. But you know she is sitll going to claim that Plame outted herself.

Facts won't matter.

[Catherine Vincent]

14. Idiot freepers are in denial.

They voted for the most corrupt administration this world has ever witnessed.

[warrens]

16. Hillary got FBI files illegally?

Does he have any proof of that? Of course he doesn't, that was a Pigboy rant, not a legal case. Sandy Berger? He pled guilty. Plame was telling everyone she was CIA? Where did that moron get THAT??? Second date? He's just making that shit up.

It isn't even worth debating these assholes. They're punks and liars and nazis, and not worth talking to.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Oh, I give up. After reading the latest additions to the thread on that

board it is clear that this person is convinced that Rove is innocent, that no wrongdoing has occured except on the part of Wilson himself (he wrote a book, as she put it) and I never did get a straight answer to this question:

Me:
Question for those who think this is political mudslinging, or who aren't sure what to think of everything that is going on.

What if "Plamegate" (since treasongate is precipitous as Judy said) turns out not to be a political smear? What if there really is a security problem here?

How will you know and what would it take for you to believe that that is the situation? (I am just looking for a list of criteria that would have to be filled.)

Also was the Monica Lewinsky scandal and impeachment a political smear, or was there really a problem that had to be dealt with there via the impeachment process?

Her:

It is all politics. Lefties hate Rove&Bush and I thought you libs were all concerned about sexual harrassment and protecting women from a sexually hostile work enviroment but I guess only Conservatives elected officials, judges and business persons can be accused of and sued for sexual harrassment. If Bill Clinton had not been a Dem you libs would have drummed him out of office and he would have been a parriah



:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. There would not be an investigation,

a grand jury and a federal prosecutor if Valerie Plame was just a lowly clerical worker at the CIA.

Tell that to this idiot freeper.