So, we can execute 17 year olds, but we can't let them play GTA...

[Hippo_Tron]

because it has some sexual content in it.

This country is hillarious

[applegrove]

1. Well - you do have to ask yourself what fantasies were running

through the lads head in the years preceding the crime that put him on death row.

I'm against the death penalty.

[Wetzelbill]

2. Nice Family Guy sig

:)

[Hippo_Tron]

4. Thx, I've had it ever since I joined DU

You can't beat the wisdom of the great Peter Griffin. He convinced congress to go to war by telling them that if they didn't support the war, they were gay.

[Wetzelbill]

15. hahaha

That's funny.

:)

[wli]

3. Republican family values: executing 17-year-olds

It's been this way for a while, e.g. too young to drink but old enough to be drafted, etc.

[Bark Bark Bark]

5. WHISH!! Totally missing the point

We shouldn't be executing anyone, and we shouldn't be letting children (and anyone under "legal" age is a child) watch porn, whether it's honest porn in Hustler Magazine, or some poorly-rendered trash squirreled away by low-grade corporate-stooge-wannabes in a video game for the specific purpose of it being found and firing up sales.

Check out what one of the best-known names in the videogame business has to say about it. Warning: it's not as simplistic and kneejerk as some people may want.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=141195&mesg_id=141195

[Jack_DeLeon]

8. Why should the govt tell me how to raise my child....

if I want my teenage son to have access to porn that is my perrogative. I dont actually have a teenage son yet, however I grew up on R rated movies, cinemax porn, and when I got a computer internet porn.

Why should the govt tell me that I cant allow my children to have the same access to educational or entertainment materials as I did growing up?

[Tux]

11. Other

You haven't read Dobson. Turn to Jesus!

[Bark Bark Bark]

14. Gee, I don't know, bring it up at the next PTA meeting

You've just danced out NAMBLA's favorite argument: "why does the big bad government interfere in my relationship with kids?"

...oh, yeah, you read porn as an educational activity, of course. And you play the shoot-'em-up part of GTA as a sociological study. And porn is a great educational tool, sure.

Lemme play Devil's advocate here:

Why should the government tell me I can't leave my kid in a locked car on a hot day?
Why should the government tell me I can't help my kid shoot up heroin if I so choose?
Why should the government tell me I can't lock my child in a basement until I can legally toss him or her into the street?
Why should the government tell me I can't physically and mentally neglect my kid, if I'd rather spend my time and money drinkin'?
Why should the government tell me I can't prostitute my child for fun and profit?

I know the answer to those questions. Can you figure it out? (Hint: "My daddy did it ta me, an' Ah turned out otay, 'ceptin' for all my haid problems" is not the answer.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I know just spent a whole day arguing this

the board and Rockstar games shoot themselves in the proverbial foot

[Tux]

12. True

some poorly-rendered trash squirreled away by low-grade corporate-stooge-wannabes in a video game for the specific purpose of it being found
After decompiling the code, searching through the source code line by line, removing certain switches, recompiling, then running the game, it's just that easy.

If Rockstar released a version different than what ERSB received, I can see. But they didn't do that. A 3rd party hack enabled some code. Cry me a river and read the damn ratings labels from now on. If your kid is playing GTA, blame yourself not Rockstar, Take 2, liberals, singles, or the cat next door.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I have posted repeteadly their admission from today

why can't you read that and admit that maybe, just maybe, Rockstar is not as innocent as you are making them seem.

[charlie]

16. There was no admission

in that article you've splattered around. Here's a quote from Rockstar on the matter:

However, Rockstar president and CEO Paul Eibeler continues to insist that Hot Coffee was an "unauthorised third party ... modification," with president and CEO Paul Eibeler stating last night: "We are deeply concerned that the publicity surrounding these unauthorized modifications has caused the game to be misrepresented to the public and has detracted from the creative merits of this award winning product."

And the statement from the ESRB prez:

"After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game."

merely states what no one in any of the threads has disputed. She had this further to say:

She did note, however, that "the material was programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player and they have stated that it was never intended to be made accessible."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=10256

See? No admission.

[Tux]

17. Deity!

For the last time, what are they guilty of? Disabled code? Shit, send them to Gitmo! Fuck people, it happens. No reason to shut down corporations over it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Ok yuio seem to have a problem readying

"After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game."

There you go... care to read it?

they shot themselves in the proverbial foot... and yes I know what it invovles... now all industries have bad apples, Rockstar happens to be it.


Oh and there is more from the same article

Rockstar now plans to remaster the game without the offending content, which will allow it to continue to see the title as M-rated; however, until those copies can be shipped out to replace existing stock, that stock will either have to be removed from shelves or re-stickered with an AO rating.

_______________

They SHOULD have shipped this game after removing that content... they did not

[Tux]

20. Have you played the game?

Without the mod, it's not playable. That simple. ERSB goes based on what is playable and nothing else. No company would let them look at the source code freely. Please, play the game and try to activate it without the mod and see how far it works.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Does not matter, that is the part you are missing

it does not matter... it should not have been in the final release, period.

That is the part you keep missing on purpose and the damage is done

[Tux]

25. LOL

What damage? Kids, who aren't supposed to play it in the first place, see tits? Well, at least they can shot people in the head.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Again they lied, they got caught

and you are justifyng them for lying?

But god help us if a repuiblican does that... then we accuse them of double standards and hypocrisy, can you see it?

[Tux]

28. Sheesh

I don't see disabled content that can't be accessed without the mod as lying. If they changed the content after they got the rating, yes they lied but they didn't do that. They just left in some code. Good idea? No. But it's not the end of Earth.

The real issue is, and most people here won't admitit, parents don't raise their kids. Period. They want everyone else to do it. This is just an excuse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. No the real issue is you want to pas the buck

and you are trying successfully

When kids misbehave they have to be disciplined, when companies lie they have to pay a price. the fact the rating was changed and they are about to be removed from the Australian market should tell you something, but it won't, pass the buck.

You keep blaming parents, why not blame the source in this particular case?

[Tux]

30. True source

OK. Lets say the hacker never found that code and never made the mod. Would you be upset if their were rumors but no evidence for this content?

At this rate, neither one of us will get the last word. I see 2 men asleep at keyboards mumbling "parents" for one and "Rockstar" for the other.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. How about they did not include THAT MATERIAL

in the distrubution disks to begin with?

[Tux]

32. Fine by me

I could care less but doesn't it being disabled mean anyting? I mean, come on, kids at gaming stores tear off plastic to see why Book of Vile Darkness has a plastic cover.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. no, obviously it does not

as to the kids tearing the covers, not at the store I shop at, the book of Vile Darkenss is NOT within even close to their reach... and the even more offending ones are special order and you have to be 18 to order them...

[Tux]

35. Odd

Gaming store owner here placed it in a display that is seen as you enter. other store, no instore gaming, places it with the rest of D&D books.

I'd prefer if they had it behind the counter since one store had $200 of stuff stolen over 1 weekend when the owner had to enter the hospital.

I checked your site real fast. What kind of RPG is it? And, are you willing to accept ideas?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Sci fi RGP and one of the reasons why the local store

does this with these books was a very long discussion with the owner on how to handle them. It was decided that the material belonged in the store but not in easy reach... of kids, hell Vampire and Werewolf always pose a problem. We don't want this material out of the store, just not within reach of a 12 year old.

It was the store owner and management taking a moral stand, and yes I am willing to take ideas...

Just be forewarned right now I cannot pay... I am brutally honest about it... we are always looking for play testers though

[Tux]

37. Deal

I'll contact you through your Web site. I will explain who I am in the emails. I want no money. Just 1 thing, credit. Don't worry about the money. I just want some professional experience so I may get into gaming industry. Tried Wizards but they require experience. Can't run a biz either (failed one).

[drhilarius]

23. A fundamental absurdity...

People, as I understand, are upset because of a Mod that would allow "kids" to see content that they would otherwise have to be one year older to see (since NO ONE under 17 should have the game in the first place. If they do-crappy parenting). So the premise that a kid savvy enough to download and instill a mod that would grant him access to digital, cartoon porn would , for some reason, be incapable of accessing or unaware of real porn he could download seems laughable naive and absurd.

17 year old kid after downloading mod: Oh shit, This is hot! I've never seen two people have sex before. Who knew this shit was on the internet of all places!?

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. That is not hte problem

as we have kept arguing.. that shoudl not have been in the final copy as this was not presented to the board. If they had, they would have been slapped wiht an AO label, which means Wally mart does not carry, nor does Target and the game cannot be sold in Australia.

That is the problem

[Bark Bark Bark]

21. "We have investigated ourselves, and found us not guilty"

Ah, well, that ends THAT debate.

"We rendered this graphic sex scene, put it into the game, and covered its tracks--all by accident! No, seriously! It just happens!--never DREAMING, not in a million years, that our loyal geek customers would find it, in spite of the fact that they love to hack our games. No, we didn't see it coming--not even after we kinda let them know about it. BUT BECAUSE WE DON'T OFFICIALLY ADMIT TO THAT, WE'RE PURE AS DRIVEN SNOW."

...And they wonder why people think gamerz are stupid.

NOTE: The "church lady" nonsense is equally idiotic. I play my Playstation2 daily, and I enjoy (some) porn. That doesn't mean I back this sort of crap anymore than I would support someone hiding a hardcore sex scene in a children's book.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. RLOL

you funny you know, but right, but you are funny.

And Rockstar has done immese damage

Now imagine this statemeent

"We at Rockstar made a mistake, when we did not remove these lines of code. We are sorry for this, and accept the judgment of the Board. We will proceed to remove this code from future copies and will reinburse stores who choose to return copies in stock to us, in exchance for new modified copies. We will also gladly exchange customer copies."

Now this kind of statement would have been the RESPONSIBLE thign to do... but no...

[Jack_DeLeon]

6. I think both should be allowed...

In Texas its legal to fuck at 17 I dont know why GTA should be only 18+.

That being said ratings arent worth a shit anyways because they arent enforced by law, yet. Stupid fucking politicans need to mind thier own fucking business.

[GiovanniC]

9. Exactly

In some cases it's 16 to have sex, 18 to watch porn or play GTA.

As for ratings being enforced... they do make it a little harder, at least. My parents always paid attention to ratings for movies and such and took a keen interest in what video games I played. Now, I'm a dad myself and I'm dealing with the same issues. My kids don't play GTA (although I do). My oldest likes to watch professional wrestling and play video games related to it, but we even restrict that.

It's about parenting.

[drhilarius]

7. Oh, absolutely ban GTA, and kill that kid...

Let's face it- angry, violent, disaffected youth DID NOT exist prior to the existence of GTA. If a kid goes on a shooting spree in a high school it has nothing to do with relatively easy access to guns, do-nothing or distant parents, or a vicious attitude of High School competition and hierarchy implicitly or explicitly condoned by parents.

[TWiley]

18. The insanity of church people.

All things sexual are from Satan, and all things violent are from their God.

[LynneSin]

33. Actually we can't execute 17 year olds

I thought the Supreme Court overrulled that one.

[theHandpuppet]

38. You know what I really find pathetic?

There are more threads about this stupid video game than there are concerning the House passage of the Patriot Act extension.

Glad we have our priorities straight, folks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Oh I did thank my rep over this

she voted the right way...

that said, this is not that unimportant, it does have its important issues.

As to the USPA been fighting that fight too

[ladjf]

39. This country is sick.

[Bark Bark Bark]

41. Penny Arcade--Comic Version

I've linked to another thread linking in turn to PA's editorial about this, but it is now officially funnier to link to the comic strip, because the Rockstar arguments ("It was TEH HAXORZ!!," etc) are now being thrown about here, like the MSM parroting a Rove Talking Points Memo.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2005-07-20

On can click on "home" for the related editoral; if you're coming in late and a new strip/editorial is up, you can peek in out in the archives. Look for "On Euphemisms."