DU This Poll: Should video games w/ adult rating be sold in dept stores?

[Ian David]

WLBT Online Poll
Should video games containing an adult rating be sold in department stores?
Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far.
Yes 14%
No 86%

http://www.wlbt.com/Global/category.asp?C=7855&nav=1L7t

[Kraklen]

1. If it sells R rated movies...

They should sell R... M! excuse me, M rated video games.

[gollygee]

5. My thoughts exactly

what is worse about seeing cartoon characters simulating sex in a video game than seeing live actors simulating sex in a movie?

And why weren't people who are upset about the nudity already freaking out about this game due to the violent nature of it?

This is all so bizarre.

[aresef]

42. AO games however, are akin to NC-17 movies. Won't find those at Wal-Mart.

[MercutioATC]

2. It's up to 47% yes

Looks like the fundies are losing ground.

[LiberalVoice]

3. 55% yes.

[Canuckistanian]

4. Yes 59%

[taught_me_patience]

6. Its a free market

business should be able to sell whatever they want as long as it's legal. They can sell R rated DVD's but not M rated games? :eyes:

[Endangered Specie]

28. Its not rated M games...

they are talking about "AO" rated games, that rating is almost unheard of since those that go so far to get that rating are only sold in "newsstands" (if you know what I mean). Most companies try to keep it from going to the AO rating, all the violence and language in the world can only earn you an M rating at worst, AO is reserved for XXX

[kliljedahl]

7. Helping a little

Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far.
Yes 61%
No 39%


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[MrBenchley]

8. Hey, I voted no...

But then I think video games make stupid, violent people even more stupid and violent anyway.

Read a book, dummies.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

12. Who DO you think you're fucking kidding?

Racial stereotypes, violence and cartoon sex--it's for people who can't handle the intellectual challenge of professional wrestling.

[Kraklen]

13. It's racist now too?

My oh my.

The claims people will resort too.

[jsamuel]

16. YOUR the one spewing hate

You obviously know nothing about video games.

[Kraklen]

17. Ironic isn't it?

The ones that whine about the moral decline of the country are the ones prone to lying and phony accusations.

[jsamuel]

19. absolutely, the evidence has shown there is absolutely no correlation

or causal relationship between violent video games and violence in real life.

SCIENCE, look it up some time. Morals means not hating people and not stereotyping people who play violent video games.

[MrBenchley]

43. Hey, so why not get your jollies on racist sex and violence

because only a few loonies are going to try to copy what they see?

"Take Two, the publisher of the Grand Theft Auto game series, is once again facing a lawsuit that alleges its software was complicit in murder.
The legal action was filed on behalf of the families of police force staff shot dead in Fayette, Alabama in 2003, allegedly by one Devin Thompson.
Thompson was apprehended on suspicion of driving a stolen car. He is claimed by state prosecutors to have snatched a policeman's gun and shot officers Arnold Strickland and James Crump, and a dispatcher, Leslie Mealer.
The lawsuit maintains that Thompson's actions that day were inspired by the GTA series, games he is claimed to have played obsessively."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/17/taketwo_gta_lawsuit/

"William Buckner, 16, and his step-brother Joshua, 13, had taken two rifles from their home, hid in trees and started firing at passing vehicles on a busy highway.
The pair pleaded guilty at a juvenile court to reckless homicide.
They were sent to a detention centre, but in their defence they told investigators that they got the idea to shoot cars from GTA3."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3680481.stm

Yeah, take your "science" and stick it where it belongs. And sometime look up "decency," "ethics," "honesty" or "morality."

[Kraklen]

48. I don't see how you can talk about decency, ethics, and morality

not to mention honesty, and then post junk like that.

[MrBenchley]

54. It's easy...I actually know what decency, ethics, and morality are

and what childish violent tripe for pinheads is....

[jsamuel]

58. 'Cause our constitution says "MrBenchley knows what decency, ethics, and..

mortality are, so he gets to decide what gets banned or not."

I love our constitution...

[MrBenchley]

69. Jeeze, that IS pathetic....

[jsamuel]

78. It is pathetic that some people think they have a monopoly on morals

stop claiming to be Jesus

[MrBenchley]

85. Jeeze, I think it's hilarious that some people think

this isn't anything but violent, mindless swill...


"stop claiming to be Jesus"
Never did, buddy. All I said was that it was shit...and mind- and soul-destructive shit at that.

[jsamuel]

93. your circulating your argument to distract that it is a fallacy

You are using your premise to prove the condition is true to prove the premise is true.

On Edit:
http://philosophy.hku.hk/think/arg/goodarg.php
Just so you understand the science...

[fujiyama]

100. So what is your point?

GTA features "bad guy" and "good guys" of just about all races. The main character in the recent one is black. In the last one it was white.

You don't like this game? Don't play it. Don't let your kid play it. It's certainly not meant for kids. It's rated M which = R.

But don't tell people that just because they're playing a violent game that they're going to show more violent tendancies and behavior.

Any kid that goes shooting schools or other people is seriously fucked up in other ways.

[Kraklen]

61. You're not demonstrating your knowledge very well.

So far you've advocated censorship and ignorance. As well as made phony accusations and have avoided explanations.

[MrBenchley]

71. That IS rich....

"you've advocated censorship and ignorance"
No, you're trying to pimp for racial stereotypes, violence and cartoon sex--and that is ignorance in its highest form.

[Kraklen]

75. You're sounding like Jerry Falwell.

Blustering about morality while showing none of your own.

Take the racism for example. It's complete untrue. You've completely failed to explain it. You know you're full of it. But you keep making the phony accusations.

Let's take your original post in this thread for another example. You made an intellectually dishonest claim about video games causing violence, then made an elitist attack. That was your highwater mark, and it's gone down hill from there.

[MrBenchley]

82. Bull shit.

Yeah, you can't guess what could possibly be racist about white chowderheads peddling a piece of tripe like this. It's a total fucking mystery, on the order of who built the pyramids or where did Amelia Earhart go.



I think the question "Do video games make the people who play them stupid" is being answered with an apt illustration.

[Kraklen]

83. Apparently not playing video games make people stupid.

Since you're just posting the same thing over and over and have completely failed to address any questions.

But since you're either very young or very slow or both, I'll be patient and ask again. Is the picture I posted from The Godfather Part II equally racist as the one you're posting?

[MrBenchley]

86. Yeah, it shows....

"Since you're just posting the same thing over and over and have completely failed to address any questions."
That's right, chipper. I've absolutely refused to tell you what a piece of crap like this...
Since you're just posting the same thing over and over and have completely failed to address any questions.

..has to do with violence, ignorance or racial stereotyping...you'll just have to guess.

[Kraklen]

88. You're still dodging all the questions.

Strikes me as very dishonest.

[Endangered Specie]

67. Who died and made you King?

your not the final authority on Right and Wrong

[MrBenchley]

87. This IS rich...

Wasn't there a claim further up the thread that SCIENCE was going to show what a decent and moral enterprise this bit of psychotic horseshit was? Guess I missed the peer-reviewed journal where "Who died and made you king?" was accepted as a valid hypothesis...

[Endangered Specie]

96. I know, that IS what you are spewing...

you are throwing yourself around as the final royal authority on what is good and what is bad, what we should or should not do.

[jsamuel]

50. I suppose you want to blame the gun companies for making the guns?

You want to blame the video game industry?
You want to blame the tv?
You want to blame movies?

You want to blame everyone except the PARENTS WHO HAD THE GUNS UNLOCKED AVAILABLE FOR THE KIDS TO HANDLE!

That is who is to blame.

Parents need to take responsibility of their children.

[Endangered Specie]

63. I got a better idea... BLAME THE KIDS!

easy enough?

[jsamuel]

65. yeah, when they are that age

[MrBenchley]

66. Yeah, the Heritage Foundation can give you reams of that crap...

And Rush Limbaugh couldn't have said it better...

The gun industry isn't responsible for the guns, the video game indistry isn't tresponsible for their violent, sadistic games...only the poor sap at the end of the chain has to pay the price.

Ignorant dittoheads just eat that up with a spoon.

P.S.: Why do you suppose that the gun industry is scrambling to get the Republican party to give it special immunity from liability laws? Here's a hint--they're liable for damages in cases like that under US law.

[jsamuel]

72. I don't want to get into a gun debate

I was actually being sarcastic. I can't believe some people simply refuse to put blame on people. It's always the big bad company or industries fault. (sometimes it is, not always) Did the gun malfunction? No. Did it advertise to the parents that it was "child proof"? No.

Just like Washington, no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions.

[Endangered Specie]

76. I suspect if he tripped over a banana peel

he would sue the FDA.

[MrBenchley]

77. Since when is right wing propaganda "sarcasm"?

and before you start spouting off, I suggest you take a look at current liability law.

"Just like Washington, no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions."
Megadittoes, Rush! Next tell us about how evil "big government liberals" are, why doncha?

[jsamuel]

80. Just for the record, you called me Rush

So you don't think that Bush should fire Rove?

That is responsibility

[MrBenchley]

89. Hey, the name fit the dittohead rubbish you were spreading....

Faux Noise Nutwork viewers eat that "companies are never responsible" shit up with a spoon and beg for more.

[Kraklen]

90. More dishonesty.

The person spreading the rightwing ditto head nonsense is you.

[MrBenchley]

92. Not even close to true...

[Kraklen]

94. Oh but it is.

The rightwing is all over this censorship and decline of moral values nonsense. You're towing their line.

[jsamuel]

98. wow, cause that's what I said "companies are never responsible" (sarcasm)

Funny your quote is taking everything out of context and isn't even a direct quote, it's a paraphrase (incorrect paraphrase).

I said some people ALWAYS want to blame corporations. (sometimes they are to blame, just not always)

This is not the first time you have put words in my mouth.

[jsamuel]

84. ps - funny how you suddenly switch from "moral" mode to "legal" mode

when you see fit

[MrBenchley]

91. Even funnier how you brought up legal responsibility

and now can't even remember you did so.

[jsamuel]

95. I said "responsibility" not "legal responsibility"

I used "blame", not "leagally to blame".

You added the "legal", not me.

[Endangered Specie]

60. Ah yes, blame it on anyone but the guys who do it...

if one seriously believes that they are not going to try to pin blame on something else and make excuses, well, I have cheap land on Pluto to sell.

[jsamuel]

62. or the parents who had "rifles from their home"

available for kids to load and shoot on a whim.

[Endangered Specie]

64. Or, blame the victims for driving too slow...

:sarcasm: :eyes:

[applegrove]

68. But when you throw sex into the mix of violence and show it to

a twelve year old boy - the numbers change dramatically. Racism too. They physiologically change the kid's sexuality.

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, and this product just drips with moral enlightenment too (sarcasm)

What a piquant moral dilemna THIS is...

[Kraklen]

31. I see nothing immoral about that.

It's a work of fiction.

It's not any different than this.

[Endangered Specie]

39. I bet I could take some GTA III screencaps

that stereotype Italians. so what? its a game just like that is a movie! :eyes:

[Kraklen]

41. Are you seriously saying that The Godfather is racist?

Or maybe I'm misreading you.

Now Scotty, there was a racist stereotype.

[Endangered Specie]

49. No but Ive heard it from the

"shove PC up everyones ass becuause we're holier than thou and we are the final authority on whats moral" crowd.

[MrBenchley]

57. Wow, what a ringing defense! It's bigoted against Italians too!

Couldn't the Rockstar Games company work in any gay-bashing? Or are they saving that for "Grand Theft Auto Four--The Defense of Marriage?"

[Endangered Specie]

79. Please, this P.C. crap has gotten really fucking old.

If I want to play a 'bigoted' (well, according to your almighty judgement)game its note one iota of your fucking business now is it. Unless you want to have the police break in to peoples privacy and arrest them for what they do in their own home (I wonder which side would argue for that?)

[MrBenchley]

44. That IS rich...

[Kraklen]

46. I think I just skewered your entire argument.

But if you wish to explain how I'm wrong, you're perfectly welcome to do so.

If you don't, I'll just have to assume you've got nothing.

[Endangered Specie]

51. Im suprised Mr Benchley hasnt bashed the game

because you can freely buy and find just about any gun you want with no limits ;) :evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

52. Geeze, that IS funny....

No, I'm not going to explain the difference between a cathartic scene in a motion picture and an interactive toy someone spends hours with. I'll just let you keep trying to pretend there isn't one, like you're trying to pretend that this is an enlighening bit of moral instruction...



I'm not even going to try to explain why "Oh yeah, well this is awful too" doesn't work as a defense...

[Endangered Specie]

55. Oh, so were going to ban things because their "immoral"

great, I think gays, pacifists, and liberals are immoral, lets ban them all! :sarcasm: of course, but Ive heard people say it before.

So, who gets to pick whats "moral"? (answer: Mr Benchley).

[Kraklen]

56. You could at least admit defeat.

Everybody can tell you've got nothing.

It's be the ethical, moral, and honest thing to do.

[Endangered Specie]

37. thats kinda the whole point of San Andreas...

its a game! its not meant to be the most ethical game either, and by the way, you can do good things in GTA games, you get money for being a fireman, or a ambulance driver, you can even knock out someone a cop is chasing and get a $50 good samaritan bonus, I loved doing that :)

[MrBenchley]

47. Oh, what fun...

"its not meant to be the most ethical game either"
No shit, sherlock. What was the first clue?

"you get money for being a fireman, or a ambulance driver"
Uh-HUH.

[Endangered Specie]

70. I do my best, King Benchley.

[MrBenchley]

25. Jeeze, it's a tedious piece of trash

filled with racial steroetypes viomece and sex. Give me a fucking break....

[Kraklen]

26. Explain how it's racist.

Please.

[Endangered Specie]

32. I thought it would be considered sexist first...

:shrug:
but, as I understand it, you can kill people of any race or gender in the game. No one claimed GTAIII was racist because of its less than steller potrayal of Italians, but Vice City took heat for being racist against Haitans, even though the potrayal was the same (stereotypical).

GTA games are DESIGNED to be a dim world, where EVERYONE fits their stereotype, and everything is taken to an outrageous extreme.

Anyone who thinks this game, where a vibrator is an acceptable gift on a first date, is 'realistic' needs their head examined.

[MrBenchley]

35. No, I think I'll just let you keep trying to pretend you can't figure out

what could possibly be racist about white chowderheads playing with a game like this...



Yeah, what could possibly be racist about white boneheads peddling <u>that</u>, d'you suppose?

[Kraklen]

38. So "Boyz in da Hood" is also racist?

Frankly, I think it's past due to have a black video game character as a hero.

All of these video games where all of the gangsters are white is what's racist.

[jsamuel]

45. Yep

:sarcasm:

[Endangered Specie]

53. Your not going to get very far with a "racist" argument if your

going to use terms like "white bonehead" and "chowderhead". Its a little ironic. Just a friendly tip.

I suppose you want to ban "Uncle Toms Cabin" too?

[Kraklen]

59. He hasn't got an argument.

Just a false accusation from Mr. Honesty.

[Endangered Specie]

73. well, its just like saying "stop fucking cursing"

Well, the King has decreed what we can and cannot play, so thats the end of it I guess :sarcasm:

[Ariana Celeste]

97. Racist! white chowderhead!

Racist! white bonehead!

Who is being racist here?

[jsamuel]

36. Have you ever watched a Spike Lee movie?

[Kraklen]

40. Spike Lee is a racist.

Apparently. According to his logic.

[Endangered Specie]

74. Chess is racist too...

White always goes first.

[jsamuel]

14. the books you read obviously aren't scientific ones

because if they were, you would know that is a fallacy

[Ian David]

15. In The Sims games, you can make your Sims read books for you

It's cute.

Does that count?

[Endangered Specie]

24. ahahahha...

Yeah, The Sims ought to have an AO rating, based on what I heard they can do in those games.

[Ian David]

27. FYI: I do read books

Mostly cheat manuals for video games.

[Endangered Specie]

34. Ah, who needs cheats?

[Ian David]

29. Related thread: Here we go again: Sims 2 content worse than Hot Coffee

The guy is a LIAR to boot...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1646361&mesg_id=1646393

[Endangered Specie]

33. Whatever that was, it got removed.

[Ian David]

99. Mods moved the thread

Here we go again: Sims 2 content "worse than Hot Coffee," says lobbyist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4169141

For a second I was afraid my post was deleted because it had the word "Labia" in it.

[Endangered Specie]

23. I wouldnt say so...

I read and play violent games, nothing wrong with it as long as you can tell reality from fiction. Alot of people who read get dumber too (such as Ann Coulter, Hannity, books etc...)

Its simple, games rated M can only be sold to minors with parental permission, and games with AO not sold to minors no matter what. (just like with R and NC17 movies respectively).

[Coexist]

10. As long as Wal-Mart keeps that soft core porn they call romance novels

on their shelves - why not video games w/sex?

My daughter can buy a book that graphically details oral sex (and rapes) for 7.95 - they don't "proof" or have "warning labels" for these books. And the funny thing is, I see females of all ages reading these things all the time! I don't care - let them.

But I find it a wee bit hypocritical when they freak out over R rated movies and insist on warning labels on music and video games that are actually tamer that some of the stuff in those books. I know - I was GIVEN a box of them by a friend of my Mom's when I was a YOUNG TEEN because I liked to read, and she was done with them. What an education I got that summer!!!

[Kraklen]

11. No wonder girls develop faster.

I spent my summer of puberty reading comic books.

[Endangered Specie]

21. They can also sell her indecent clothing...

bloody amazing what they offer, youd think you were in a lingerie shop.

[Endangered Specie]

18. Well, its ok to sell slutty clothes to 12yo girls

Seriously, you should see what they make in childrens sizes. Im sorry, but a preteen girl shouldnt be wearing short shorts that say "Boy magnet " across the back end, or have a cherry imprinted on the crotch! :puke:

Theres no reason not to have adult games, as long as the covers arent graphic, I mean they sell playboys and penthouses in bookstores, they just wrap them so you cant read em without buying em. Simple enough.

If your going to get so picky about video game sex, why not censor clothes too :shrug:

[gollygee]

20. 12? Try 5- and 6-year-old girls.

Toddler sizes go up to 4t. Anything past that is fair game.

And my daughter is 3 and outgrowing the 4t sizes so she'll be in size 5 soon at the age of 3.

[Endangered Specie]

22. Well its hard to tell sometimes...

seems as though they are all shooting to look around 13-15 with the clothes usually associated with a hooker or promiscuous(sp) college student.

But, it gets worse every time the subject comes up.

[Ariana Celeste]

81. 50/50

[pinto]

101. Locking.

The polling being done here seems more about fellow members than a video game.

Thanks for your consideration.