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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:28 AM
Original message
"why do they hate us" is coming up next on CNN
lol this should be entertaining.. just a fyi
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well, maybe it's because

You're KILLING THEM.

Perhaps they would prefer to STAY ALIVE.
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Fountain79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. oh please
That's like saying "They hate us because they hate our freedoms". It's an oversimplification.
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. ???

OK, you've lost me.

What you appear to be saying is that wanting to stay alive is too simple a reason to try and kill someone who's trying to kill you? You think we need a more complex explanation? "They hate us for our freedoms" is an overCOMPLICATION, not an oversimplification.
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Fountain79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. basically
You are trying to state that their hatred and their need to bomb us is simply out of self-preservation. The London bombings had no such markings, the bombers themselves were residents of England. Is the British government engaging in some form of ethnic cleansing that we don't know about? It is regularly pointed out that the majority of the 9-11 terrorists were of Saudi origin...we haven't bombed them.
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Uhhh
You are trying to state that their hatred and their need to bomb us is simply out of self-preservation.

No, I am not *trying* to state anything, I am merely stating it.

"Oooh, I may be trying to say that they are attempting to preserve themselves but *you* are simply TRYING to say I'm wrong." Tendentious, is it not? Shall we avoid these tactics? We could spend a LOOOONG time going round in circles over them, certainly.

Back to the subject: Their interests are the lives of their countrymen, religious affiliates or political allies, not anybody's freedoms. They seek to tip public opinion. The strategy succeeded with the Spanish, so might with the British. THAT is their logic. Their intended aim: Fewer people in the Middle East being bombed, tortured and humilated at the hands of the West, meaning a better life for them. Their assessment of us? Enablers.

The London bombings had no such markings

"Markings"? Are you aware of ANY markings surrounding these bombings? What does this word mean?

The bombers themselves were residents of England.

??? I am going to assume that you typed that in haste. This is, after all, the 21st Century and we are all aware that England is a country that is now composed of many groups of citizens of previous ethnic and national affiliations.

Is the British government engaging in some form of ethnic cleansing that we don't know about?

Nooooo, the British Government is engaging in a useless and mindlessly destructive WAR that we ALL know about.

What do you expect a country with no weapons or army left to do?

They are are war with *us*, too. You can't declare a one-sided war, it's MEANINGLESS NONSENSE. "We're at war with you, but YOU'RE not at war with US, that wouldn't be FAIR..." It's utter bullshit.

It is regularly pointed out that the majority of the 9-11 terrorists were of Saudi origin...we haven't bombed them.

You keep switching "thems". Which "THEM" do you mean? The 9/11 terrorists or the London bombers? Rather different in scope and strategy, IMO.

And whichever of these "Them"s you want to talk about, how can you miss their most important and obvious motivation, simple human sympathy? If China starting nuking the UK, would you defend us and attack them primarily through a sense of the poor logic of their still relatively primitive economic system, for example?

The whole "They hate us for our freedoms" thing is about reality-shy ostriches who want to maintin their innocent self image at the cost of all reason.
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Tommymac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. The mouse that roared.
Well spoke.:yourock: :patriot:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Please enlighten us.
I can understand easily that someone would hate another who was killing their people.

I cannot understand easily that one would hate another for being free.

One makes sense, the other does not. Oh please, indeed.

The fact that the US is attempting to dominate the world, and as a consequence, is killing many innocent people, is a PRIME reason that the opinion of the US is so low around the world.

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Fountain79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. double post
Edited on Sat Jul-23-05 11:31 AM by Fountain79
double post
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wake.up.america Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. It is about time!!!
No excuse for the bombings, but it ain't going to stop until we address the causes.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Smell of Fear
The ultimate targets of the London bombings were not, of course, human beings. Rather, they were a set of governmental policies that the terrorists hoped to change by separating political leaders from the support of their shaken citizenry. Despite this distinction, however, the underlying psychological principles involved in investigating such crimes remain the same as they would were we studying a mass- or serial-murder case, of which terrorists are in many respects the politicized version. Is this to say that the four young men suspected of being the instruments of terror on this occasion can be classified as clinical sociopaths? We will likely be unable to answer that question with certainty, now that they are dead. What we can focus on, however, are the motivations and perversities of the vastly more dangerous Islamist clerics and terrorist organizers who sought out youthful pawns and instilled in them a theology of murder.

Many political analysts have long been anxious to exclude terrorists from psychological profiling. Some fear that such scrutiny undermines the rationalization that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" (as indeed it does), while others worry that focus on the mental pathologies of terrorists will detract from whatever legitimacy their causes may hold--just as the psychosis of Hitler overshadowed Germany's grievances about excessive war reparations. But Hitler did not redress injustices against his nation, he prostituted them to his megalomaniacal visions. In the same way, the preachers of Islamist terror are less interested in securing prosperity and dignity for their peoples than they are in finding new communities of human instruments that they can enlist in their demented campaign to turn History's clock back. In all such cases of international criminal psychology, we have no choice but to move beyond police work and questions of political motive, and reach for the tools of the forensic psychologist--most importantly, the art of profiling.

But it is not only or even primarily the killers and their tutors that must be so examined: Thorough profiling demands that we also study the victims, who in cases of terrorism are whole societies. The point is not to see those societies as they actually are, but as the planners of the outrage saw them. In this particular case, we must try to understand why a terrorist group associated to at least a degree with al Qaeda was suddenly inspired to move beyond the general desire of that organization's leadership to punish Britain; why, that is, such an affiliate became overwhelmingly convinced that at this particular moment, British citizens were not only deserving of the usual terrorist brand of ritualized bloodshed, but would prove, more importantly, willing to gratify al Qaeda's demands in the wake of the bombings. What had these Islamist organizers seen, as they stalked through the land that had so unwisely given them asylum, that convinced not only them, but their young acolytes, that the time had come for a more-than-rhetorical assault on Britain's people?





These questions will not be answered by focusing on the grievances by which the terrorists later claimed to have been propelled: The sociopath's motivations are revealed in his behavior, not in his grandiose self-justifications. Therefore, we must put the issue of the timing of the bombings into the context of the series of similar crimes that have been committed by al Qaeda and its subordinates during the long and deadly spree that they have pursued since the 1990s. Only a few examples from al Qaeda's catalogue of outrages resemble the London attack, in specific purpose and method, enough to be of real use in establishing this pattern. These few are: the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001; the bombings of a synagogue, the British consulate, and a Western bank in Istanbul in November 2003; and the Madrid bombings in March 2004. What common elements can we establish among these societies at the given moments that they were victimized?

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006989
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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. its on now
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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. "is it an identity crisis going on?"
omg.. idiots
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:14 PM
Original message
NOOO, honey, it's that WAR you declared?

Remember that WAR? Huh?

Oh, of course, It's only YOUR side that's at war. The other side aren't supposed to shoot back.

FUCKWITS.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. They hate us because
We stuck our nose where it didn't belong during the Regan years. We put troops in Saudi Arabia.

NOW they really hate us for killing their people.

There's your half hour special right there.
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Fountain79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. ok...
We have troops all over the world. In Europe, in Asia, etc...why is the middle east such an exception?
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Because Saudia Arabia is the site of Mecca
And there are alot of fanatics there that already saw the West as infidels but really saw no reason to start screaming for our deaths untill we "sullied" their holy soil.

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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Would you like
large Middle Eastern military bases in America with a strong Middle eastern influence on the US government?

I guess some cultures are just more indepedence-minded than others.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. How many repressive regimes are we propping up........
How many repressive regimes are we propping up (or have propped up and/or overthrown governments) in the countries to which you are referring. Why don't you name a few that are on your mind and we'll see if your theory holds up re: lack of terrorism in countries in which we have a military presence.
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Tommymac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. UHHH,
could it be because we invaded them? Could it be because we are OCCUPYING them? Arresting them and torturing them? Not providing power after we blew up their power plants; not providing clean water after we blew up their sanitation facilities?

Just a thought.
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. Multi-National Corporate Expansion
MNCE, it is.

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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. I just can't even fucking believe this.

I really can't, I just CANNOT get it.

It's, uh, that WAR, remember, little chickens? Remember in March 2003 you declared WAR?

Oh, now I get it, it's only a war if YOU want to fight it!
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. it wasn't declared IIRC
We just attacked.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. So CNN isn't cutting right to the heart of the matter
and explaining to us peons the true reason for the terrorists' hatred? Color me surprised.:sarcasm:
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