The guy shot on the London subway had NOTHING to do with the bombings

[Jersey Devil]

Just some poor bastard who had the misfortune of living in an apartment in one of the buildings under surveillance who had the misfortune to wear a coat and run from police. I bet you could find hundreds of homeless derelicts or people with mental problems every day on the NYC subways who would do the same thing.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/bbc_shot_man_not_connected_to_bombing_050723-01.wmv

[cornermouse]

1. I wonder how they explain it to his family.

It was a public execution, plain and simple.

[skooooo]

2. hmmmm

Well, if a cop told me to stop. I'd stop. It's unfortunate, but my take on the incident, considering the circumstances and what I've heard, is a bit different.

[Scottie72]

3. I agree with you

Given the cicumstances in London at the time, if a cop asked someone to stop they better stop and not run.

[skooooo]

4. Yup...and if I was Asian or not obviously northern European..

..and male especially, I'd make real damn certain I was following the rules and not jumping turnstiles.

Still, its a tragedy for all involved. I don't blame the cops tho.

[Karenina]

22. Plainclothes white guys?

How was he to know they weren't hooligans?

[Tom Bombadil]

25. Hooligans don't run around

brandishing guns.

[neweurope]

5. Nothing can excuse shooting a guy on whom you're already

sitting (!) point blank. NOTHING.

------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[hel]

6. Exactly! n/t

[skooooo]

7. except the possibility of ...

...a home made bomb on their body. Sorry, normally I would sympathise more, but there are people setting off bombs. From the looks of the other thread, the DU community seems pretty divided in opinion on this.

[Guaranteed]

13. Hmmm...well there's ALWAYS the POSSIBILITY.

I think the important thing to get right before you shoot and kill someone is to make sure that you actually have some EVIDENCE that they're a threat to the community. Like, seeing them carrying an actual bomb would do the trick. Or, say, maybe they were making some kind of threats or something.

At that point, when you have evidence of an actual danger, other than the fact that the guy is wearing a coat (scary!), then you can go ahead and step on him and shoot him.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

27. Would a cop sit on the guy if he thought he might get blown...

to bits?

[atreides1]

12. Good point

But we don't know what this poor man had to deal with after the July 7th bombings.

Did he have problems because of his ethnic background, did he have a bad experience with the police prior to this incident, was he afraid
because he was Muslim?

And did you hear the report on CNN this morning, it would seem that Scotland Yard has been discussing tactics with the Russians and the Israelis, in how to handle suspected bombers.

Not sure how you feel, but those would be the last two groups I'd want advice from, seeing as to how their methods don't bring in a lot of prisoners.

We will never know why this man ran, so we can do all the hindsight and "no shit this is what I would do", it still doesn't matter.

An innocent man is dead at the hands of the police, who said yesterday that he was a suspect in their investigation, and are now saying that they were wrong. It's too bad their regret won't bring this man back to life!!!!

The main concern is how many more innocent people will be gunned down by the police?????

[Steve Dallas]

18. Disagree on the israelis.

Israel airlines are the safest in the world.
And prisoners? Believe it or not, bringing in prisoners is not the biggest priority when it comes to potential terrorists.

[Jersey Devil]

19. Yeah, but there are lots of street people out there who are disturbed

You see it all the time. They wear coats because they, in their disturbed minds, don't know that you can hang up your coat. They don't respond to conversation because, in their disturbed minds, it does not register. Thousands roam the streets of New York, and presumably London, every day. They should be cared for in hospitals but the governments will not pay so they are free to roam the streets. Some collect bottle caps. Some collect cans or plastic bags.

[WatchWhatISay]

8. I just hope that they acknowledge that it was a horrible mistake

And don't try to make up a bunch of bogus reasons why it was justified.

If he really was wearing a heavy winter coat, left from an area where they were watching suspected terrorists from the previous days attacks, and ran onto the train after authorities told him to stop, then they were justified to do what they did. If any of it is made up, then that is unforgiveable.

[Modem Butterfly]

9. The wrong skin color at the wrong place and the wrong time

As someone who is ALSO the "wrong" skin color, this scares the living shit out of me.

[skooooo]

10. disobeying the cops....duh

[Modem Butterfly]

11. Someone in STREET CLOTHES pulls a gun on you, remember this okay?

Don't panic or anything. Just ASSUME HE'S A COP. How else could someone get a gun anyway?

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. I wouldn't run even if I thought they weren't a cop

because I'd think if they were ever going to shoot me, it would be more likely when running than when staying still.

I don't know if there are witnesses to exactly what the police said, but the police say they challenged him, which should mean saying "Police!" So, in addition to my reaction being to stop anyway, yes, I would assume they're police.

[Guaranteed]

14. Disobeying the police isn't justification for deadly force.

Or anywhere near it, really.

[Bluebear]

15. Did he know they were cops. duh?

In plain clothes with guns?

Or was he frightened because his skin was dark in the current atmosphere? Just sayin.

An Indian in Arizona was murdered in cold blood after 9/11 because someone wanted to play avenger.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maple]

17. The coat

may have seemed excessive to the English, but the man may have been chilly depending on what country he was used to.

'Hot' weather to the Brits wouldn't be 'hot' to someone from the ME.

Or he may have had drugs on him...a good reason to run.

Especially when someone in plainclothes pulled a gun on him.

Could have been anyone. Personal enemies even.

But after you're sitting on someone...'pumped 5 bullets into him' is more than a little excessive.

They had no way of knowing if killing him would set off a bomb either...like a 'dead man's switch', it could have been triggered if he let go of a switch for example.

Sad all around, but it's what happens when people react out of fear.

I'm sure that putting 'whoops, sorry' on his tombstone will comfort his family though.

[Must_B_Free]

21. Sad and scary

[Modem Butterfly]

26. It was 60 that day

Someone from Brazil probably has less of a cold tolerance than a native Brit.

[rocktivity]

20. A nightmare come true.

And it's probably only the beginning.

:(
rocknation

[donco6]

24. The difference between UK and US -

I doubt we would EVER have admitted the guy didn't have anything to do with it. We'd have had some fabricated story shoved down our throats and disseminated through RW radio, that in a week everyone would be taking it for granted that the guy was a hardcore lifelong terrorist.

[Horse with no Name]

28. The thing that I don't understand

That if he was a suicide bomber, when they started chasing him he would have detonated it right then and there and hoped for the best in taking out as many as he could since it was obvious he wasn't going to make it to his target.
They would have never had a chance to get him on the ground. They'd have all been blown up.
Once they got him on the ground, it was a sure bet he wasn't gonna explode anything and therefore a senseless shooting.
Very excessive IMHO.
And I also agree that this won't be the first that we are seeing of this type of behavior--shoot first and sort the bodies later. Sooner or later they are bound to get one of the bad guys, but how many innocents will fall first. Makes you wonder who the real terrorists are.

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. But they thought his target was the Tube train

and he did make it that far. It's very possible that it was only when he got on the train that he was close enough to either any bystanders or the police themselves (who caught up when he entered the train) to be within the range they thought a bomb might have - so that was when they decided to kill him.

[vogonjiltz]

30. He shouldn't have run, also

in britain who else but the police would be on the streets with automatic weapons, there are lots of restrictions on fire arm ownership. I really don't fault the police here.