Editor and Publisher: Abu Ghraib Photos Show...

[glaucon]

...little boy rape. I'm so goddamned proud of my government now. How about you?

Pentagon Blocks Release of Abu Ghraib Images: Here's Why
by Greg Mitchell
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000990590

NEW YORK So what is shown on the 87 photographs and four videos from Abu Ghraib prison that the Pentagon, in an eleventh hour move, blocked from release this weekend? One clue: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images: "I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe.” They show acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he added.

<...>

"’If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse,’ Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. ‘I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe.’

<...>

A military report about that abuse describes detainees being threatened, sodomized with a chemical light and forced into sexually humiliating poses.

<...>

In the same period, reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention: “Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok? Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men….The women were passing messages saying ‘Please come and kill me, because of what's happened.’

“Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out.”

[bullimiami]

1. because it was all approved from the top down.

bush, gonzales, cheney, rumsfeld right on down and they all knew what was happening and they approve of it still.

they are trying to fight new anti-torture legislation on top of the laws they already broke and are fighting every attempt to expose or investigate it.

they are the torturers.
republican values at work. George W Bush is a monster.

[movonne]

2. Ane still going on !!!

[Swamp Rat]

3. "Blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman" ... said the monster.

[Solly Mack]

4. They'll destroy the evidence eventually

These constant delays will eventually lead to an "accident"

[SmokingJacket]

54. It might already be destroyed.

Hopefully someone made copies, though...

[Horse with no Name]

58. That will be there proof that they are fake

They weren't originals.
They know what they are doing.

[SmokingJacket]

68. Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if it unfolded like this. nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. let them come out so that this bush NIGHTMARE can fucking end!

[acmavm]

6. This is a war crime. No ands, ifs, or buts. And this is part of the reason

that bombs are going off in the London underground. There are pictures and there are films of the crimes committed by 'our' people in that prison. And even if we don't see the pictures or the videos, the people in Iraq, the families, the survivors know what went on. They know what 'our' government allowed be done to them, to their women, to their children.

And the bushistas have some insane idea that they can command the moral high ground here. They attacked innocent people, they lied about why (many times as a matter of fact). They used depleted uranium and napalm on them. They raped their women and apparently children.

Strange way to 'let freedom reign' george. And yes Wolfie, they'll be singing songs about you for a thousand years. And you aren't going to be flattered by what they say.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

9. This is how they plan to brainwash the public into believing it was just -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1648959

Taliban Recruiting Kids

and what is more sick about it........the republicans will feel it was justified because of the propaganda.

[Al-CIAda]

13. good catch. n/t

[0007]

69. How come we never hear the Pope condemn the bush administration?

[AnnInLa]

7. The outrage over at daily kos and in my exploding head

from www.dailykos.com

Bush Threatens to Veto Attempts to Regulate, Investigate Abu Ghraib Torture
by Hunter
Fri Jul 22nd, 2005 at 19:51:23 PDT

OK. Seriously, I'm about done with this crap. Go read the last two posts, on the latest Bush attempts to block pictures and video of Abu Ghraib that document the rape of women and sodomy of children detained by U.S. forces.

Back now? Great. Now, courtesy Digby, read this Reuters article:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House on Thursday threatened to veto a massive Senate bill for $442 billion in next year's defense programs if it moves to regulate the Pentagon's treatment of detainees or sets up a commission to investigate operations at Guantanamo Bay prison and elsewhere.

The Bush administration, under fire for the indefinite detention of enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba and questions over whether its policies led to horrendous abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, put lawmakers on notice it did not want them legislating on the matter. <...>

"If legislation is presented that would restrict the president's authority to protect Americans effectively from terrorist attack and bring terrorists to justice," the bill could be vetoed, the statement said.

Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, who endured torture as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, said after meeting at the Capitol with Vice President Dick Cheney that he still intended to offer amendments next week "on the standard of treatment of prisoners."

South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, who was working on legislation defining the legal status of enemy combatants being held in Guantanamo, also said he would offer an amendment.

So on one hand, the Bush administration is frantically blocking the release of the photographic proof of the most horrific war crimes committed in U.S. military-run prisons.

On the other hand, the Bush administration is simultaneously threatening to veto any attempts by McCain, Graham or others to establish even rudimentary rules banning such torture -- or even investigating the torture already documented.

I think it's time to invent some new swearing, because there isn't anything currently in the language that fully encompasses the White House's unapologetic attempts to ensure the Bush administration's own crafted and approved "interrogation" policies be allowed to continue unhindered. Yes, according to the Bush administration, any attempts by Republican senators to legislate against, say, the sodomizing of detained children are unduly infringing on the president's fight against terrorists.

much more outrage at www.dailykos.com

((I know I am over the 4 paragraph limit...but the horror, the outrage that I feel when reading this compelled me to go over the limit...mods delete if you wish.))

[bunny planet]

33. The Nuremberg Trials held the leadership accountable for the atrocities

they were ultimately responsible for. We've done the exact opposite in this country and blamed it on the 'bad apples' among the troops.

The leadership must be made to answer for their crimes.

[Zorbuddha]

8. LEAK THIS

you bastards!

[leveymg]

10. This is what they wanted to drown out with the 2nd London attack incident.

No wonder the South Asian man, who was apparently executed for wearing a coat in July, was curled up in a corner of the train with a terrified look on his face.

Who are the terrorists?

[truthisfreedom]

47. Brazilian.

[lildreamer316]

11. Excuse me while I puke.

I'm sorry to say this; but I sure as hell don't support THOSE troops. Who in the hell would follow an order to do that? What the fuck??? I support the troops; especially the ones in the line of fire, but damn. Come on. Are they human??

[FloridaPat]

14. Like Vietnam, this is one of those things that you have to be there

to know why. The people responsible are sitting in Washington getting rich off all of this. These soldiers involved in this have been tortued too - by not enough water, by being constantly under threat for their lives, by being screwed by their own government, watching * buddies like Haliburton get rich while their businesses or families or entire lives go down the toilet, and basically being let by higher ups to do these things. This is Vietnam all over again.

Unless you've actually severed in combat and life and death situations every day, I don't believe you can have the faintest idea what goes on in people heads. No, I haven't served. But I had a lot of friends serve in Vietnam. When the government is evil, it trickles down.

[lildreamer316]

16. I'm sure you're right.

I have absolutely no idea; and if I were there maybe I would have been pushed to that point too; but I just can't see it. I guess I just need to thank The All that I've never had to make those kinds of decisions. I just wish we'd get them the fuck outta there so this dosen't have to come to that point anyway, you know? Sorry if I came off snobbish.

[FloridaPat]

17. Not a problem. It's just so unfair to the solders - all of this. A fact I

got from the Canadians - every serial killer with guns that we've had in the last 250-30 years - ex-servicemen. These poor folks are coming back here someday. They will not be normal. They are poisoned with depleted uranium. These people in Washington belong in jail in Gitmo.

[SpiralHawk]

22. Desensitization is a BIG factor

Numbed by the darker elements of video, rap, and game culture, and the group madness of war, men and women surrender their discernment and free will. They do what is profoundly ugly because it takes so much to make them feel anything at all.

In my view, that's where the ultimate struggle lies in these times, for there are layers upon layers of lies. Discernment, and exercise of the free will guided by the core moral imperatives of respect, honesty, caring, and sharing. That is the oldest teaching, and in my view it remains valid as a stabilizing point amidst the gales of fortune and change.

[lildreamer316]

24. MY question is this..

should we expect them to know better? I really don't know.

[Toots]

52. Half the peopel in America support this Cabal in whatever they do

And you ask the question of a few Americans already trending towards violence or they never would have volunteered. They are under constant brainwashing even more so than the american public. Fear is driven into them and hatred for the "enemy" is as well. Some of these soldiers hate with a passion unimaginable. Once you start having close friends killed or maimed the fear and hatred sets in. Remember the "Troops" are molded into killers and they are damned good at it. some (a lot actually) like it. It does not take a direct order but a mere suggestion for the desired results. A lot of soldiers brag openly about their abuses and killings. It is how they out macho each other. I think this attitude is unavoidable and occurs in every army around the world. Americans are probably not the worst but also certainly not the best.

[Burried News]

57. Yes we should.

Infantry officer in VN 1966
War corrupts us and our enemy. It brutalizes everyone and destroys the social fabric for everyone.
Some geniuses have found a way to accelerate the process. I don't think it was promoted by career military but it was executed by career military.
The opposition thrives on confusion - you had it right, keep the faith.

[Nevernose]

27. I refer you to the year 1599: devoid of rap music and video games

War is Hell, and always has been. I agree with you about the desensitization, but would suggest that desensitization is not only the natural consequence of being in a warzone, but what must happen to a soldier if he is to survive physically or psychologically.

Henry V, at the gates of Harfleur:

The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.
What is it then to me, if impious war,
Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats
Enlink'd to waste and desolation?
What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
What rein can hold licentious wickedness
When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
We may as bootless spend our vain command
Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil
As send precepts to the leviathan
To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people,
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil and villany.
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry
At Herod's bloody-hunting slaughtermen.
What say you? will you yield, and this avoid,
Or, guilty in defence, be thus destroy'd?

[yurbud]

56. great quote

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[Lecky]

18. I know you are disgusted, so am I

but there are a lot of good people being sent over there who would be just as disgusted and ashamed as we are.

[lildreamer316]

23. Ooh; I agree..

I just can't believe our own would do this; I am a genXer so I didn't have the Veitnam realities to live through. Please see my reply post to that one. I really do support the men and women who are over there; I just HATE the fact that we put them in this situation in the first place (that those kinds of decisions had to be made).

[NightOwwl]

41. Before you write off the troops, please read this info from the

official website of the Stanford Prison Experiment:

Welcome to the Stanford Prison Experiment web site, which features an extensive slide show and information about this classic psychology experiment, including parallels with the recent abuse of Iraqi prisoners. What happens when you put good people in an evil place? Does humanity win over evil, or does evil triumph? These are some of the questions we posed in this dramatic simulation of prison life conducted in the summer of 1971 at Stanford University.

How we went about testing these questions and what we found may astound you. Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended prematurely after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of extreme stress. Please join me on a slide tour describing this experiment and uncovering what it tells us about the nature of Human Nature.

http://www.prisonexp.org/

It's very disturbing documentation and footage.

[savemefromdumbya]

12. Bush probably enjoys them and he doesn't want to share

I have no respect for a President who is Commander in Chief and has allowed this. Cheney is no better - he says the prisoners deserve it. Well I hope they give him a taste of his own medicine when he is finally behind bars!

[NEOBuckeye]

53. No one more richly deserves capital punishment than Cheney

If ever there was a case for high crimes in government, Dick Cheney's name is written all over it. His actions threaten so much more than America.

That madman is a cancer upon the very Earth itself. He must be removed.

[yurbud]

15. give this one rec's to keep it up

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[DanCa]

19. Animals

No otherword for these diseased freaks .Plain pathetic animals.

[ConfuZed]

20. Let me get it right a soldier was sodimizing a little boy?

[yurbud]

29. purpose of torturing kids, not to get info NOW, but in the future...

When Sy Hersh first ran this in the New Yorker, and spoke about it, I couldn't see the value (even pragmatically) of doing this, but as I read up on torture, it became sickeningly clear: the point is to create informants or even assets who will follow orders and turn over whatever they hear on the street rather than face the abuse again.

Using sex has a devastating psychological effect, which is amplified by several orders of magnitude when used on kids just entering puberty or before.

It probably works, but if the goal is to reduce terrorism this is the wrong way to do besides as about as immoral as you can possibly get.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[Lecky]

42. That's the most God awful thing I have ever heard of

Are these men given orders to do this? This just all seems insane to me!

[yurbud]

55. CIA has worked on these methods, and British intel (link)

Sexual humiliation:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1212150,00.html


CIA psychological torture research:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/05/14/torture_at_abu_ghraib_followed_cias_manual/

Scope of child imprisonment:
http://www.occupationwatch.org/analysis/archives/2005/06/arrested_develo.html


I have read some really out there stuff that said the CIA had a program along the lines of the MK ULTRA mind-control one called project monarch on turning kids into to useful assets for sexually blackmailing foreign officials. It seems unlikely until I realized that these methods of systematically raping kids to creat a disassociative state and break down their identity sounded a hell of a lot like what was being done at Abu Ghraib. And then a gay prostitute turns up at the White House, who seems to be in a position to blackmail the president or at least some of his top aides, and that some have said bears an uncanny resemblance to kidnapped child Johnny Gosch, including his mother.

It seems so implausible because we don't want to believe our government would do things like this, especially to its own citizens, but you can see how it would be extremely effective.

The MK Ultra stuff is a matter of public record now with the Church Committee report from the 70s, when they used things like hypnosis, drugs, and other methods of softening people up and creating disassociative states.

The worst thing I read on this was that 9/11 had exactly that effect on us all. The shock of the event made us highly suggestible for a time toward anything presented as a way of protecting our safety.

Scary shit.


Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[Burried News]

59. Yes. Spot on - this aspect is seldom in print - burried

I need to invent an award - a golden shovel? You are the first recipient, numero uno.

"the point is to create informants or even assets who will follow orders and turn over whatever they hear on the street rather than face the abuse again."

[Pachamama]

35. Don't know if it was a US soldier or a "Contractor" for the military...

...I'm sure when the photos come out, we will know the answer....My bet is on it being a US Military Contractor, you know the private army that the US Taxpayers don't realize that they are funding along with the syphoning of the oil....

[ConfuZed]

37. Will these Child Molesters ever have to face charges

Its unbelievable our best guys were sodomizing CHILDREN FOR CHRISTS SAKES!!!!!!!!!

[Jo March]

67. But at least gays can't marry

:sarcasm:

[yurbud]

21. POSTED TO COULTER BOARD: Bush OK'd raping boys at Abu Ghraib

http://post.news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=37447170&tid=ucacsouterinrobertsclothing&sid=37447170&mid=2545&n=1

The Pentagon has blocked the release of the last of the Abu Ghraib photos and videos.

This article from Editors & Publishers explains what's in them.

What you have to decide is if you are going to blame the troops for doing this, as the Bush administration has done, or blame the civilians in the White House who wrote the torture policy that allowed this to happen.

You can pretend this stuff is a joke or believe the lies Rush and Ann tell you about it, but the rest of the world isn't that gullible, and they aren't laughing.

A real patriot doesn't say "my country, right or wrong," he looks for what's wrong and makes it right.

It is time for conservatives to decide if their patriotism and loyalty belong to their country and democracy--or to Bush.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id= 1000990590

(followed by the excerpts in original post here)

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[lildreamer316]

25. Thou art brave.

Here's to hoping someone wakes up (but I doubt it!)

[SpiralHawk]

26. So sad

Bush and the Republicans have done these sordid things in secret in the name of the American people.

Forgive us, for we have sinned.

[Freedomfried]

28. How long can the Pentagon block these images?

[Octafish]

30. They hate us for our NAZIs.

This is your country on Bush.

[glitch]

31. This is the image that is burned into my memory.

This is what I see when I read or hear the name Abu Ghraib. I also see it when I see a picture of Bush or Cheney or hear their voices.
This image should've gotten the same amplification that the napalmed girl in Vietnam got.

[helderheid]

63. Of all the images I've seen - and I've seen too many - this is the one

that rips me apart.

[goforit]

32. Videos? Photos?.....Who wants these in their library?...Bush? Cheney?

Rummy? Rove? Pearle? Sharon? The Pope?

WTF!!!!!!!!


Perverts to the MAX!!!!

[wli]

34. they're probably afraid of massive civil disturbances

[elf]

36. hopefully civil disturbance, but.....

on the other hand I fear it will bring the "TOTAL WAR BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS"!!!!!!!!
And that my friends will be the countdown to the destruction of all human kind archived in the last 1000 years!!!

Anyway, I want these bastards in this administration pay for what they did to this country and to the world!!!!!

When I moved from Germany 9 years ago, my friends were jealous and said, oh how lucky you must be.........
.........now they ask us, why in the world are you living there and staying, how can you stand this, because you are there on free will!!!!
Friends,we stay and hope, we will see better times, and in 3 years (5 years green card holder) we can vote and we vote right!!!!

[wli]

40. interesting; I'd rather be in Germany than here

If only to feel slightly cleaner. The crimes this administration has made me complicit in are so horrid.

[bklyncowgirl]

45. They fear all out war. Innocent people will die.

I think this is why the Democrats are not pushing this. Even Democrats who opposed the war like Kennedy and Byrd have not been calling loudly for the release of these pictures.

If rumors of a Koran being flushed down a toilet set off riots, imagine what the sight of a child being sodomized would do.

I have mixed feelings about this myself. I fear what will be unleashed when these pictures come out. Innocent people will die. There is no doubt.

On the other hand I want Americans to see what their leaders have been doing in their names. They need to see how their leaders have dragged the good name of their once proud nation through the mud and they need to see the true nature of what they have voted for. The truth has to be rubbed in their faces for them to comprehend.

Is it worth if for some innocents to die, perhaps horribly, so that perhaps, just perhaps, enough Americans will be revolted enough to oppose this horror?

I don't know the answer to that one.

[Horse with no Name]

61. Innocent people are already dying

People just seem to feel a little relieved when it doesn't touch their lives. However, at this point, it WILL touch everyone's life.
Evil will prevail when allowed...and not only is it being allowed, it is being encouraged by the silence.

[Burried News]

62. Deep down in our hearts don't we all know that that's what it will take

to stop this? All of it.

They can screw with a head count all they want.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Oh absolutely proud

so can we turn these war criminals over to the Hague?

They are afraid of the growing file at Geneva and quite possibly a population that is slowly waking from its slumber

[Hissyspit]

39. kick

[CWebster]

43. Yeah well, our senators saw these images

and they decided it wouldn't be prudent to release them to the public. They knew, and they did NOTHING.

[Burried News]

65. Especially John Warner, Chair Armed Services Comtte

He said they would get to the bottom of it (at Thanksgiving Recess is my recollection). A Washington Post editorial criticized him for his failures to do so. Still no action. The WaPo has worked hard to pressure the administration on this issue. They have little to show for their efforts. Another casualty in the War on Lies - General Taguba whose career is now in nowhere's land thanks to them.
http://www.agonist.org/annex/taguba.htm

[anarchy1999]

44. My heart is breaking. Can't we please make this end. Isn't someone.

somewhere going to be held accountable? The US that we all love is going so down. It just breaks my heart.

What can we do to make it stop.

I liked what Larry had to say yesterday, he is a republican and he just wishes a good republican would stand up.

Damn you guys, what is it going to take?

I'd lie over a sexual indescretion, but TREASON?

Where are our "rightous" REPUBLICANS? A lie about an affair is justification for impeachment, but a lie taking us to war is not? Outing an undercover operative with the CIA is nothing?

I can't keep up.

I need more books, why and where is our 4th estate, you know, the Press, investigative journalists and so on and so forth.

I'm with everyone else, I do believe we have crossed the "RUBICON".

Welcome all to 1984.

My head spins over and over.

[glaucon]

46. It may have been Iraqi soldiers who raped the kids...

The E&P article, as well as Hersh's comments, seem to imply that it was American personnel who raped the children. But the following article from the UK Daily Telegraph in 2004 says it was Iraqi soldiers. Americans only encouraged it and filmed it.

Americans only rape adults. Makes me feel much better.



US soldiers 'seen raping woman' in new jail photos
09/04/04
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/09/wtort09.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/09/ixnewstop.html

America was braced last night for new allegations of torture in Iraq after military officials said that photographs apparently showing US soldiers beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death and having sex with a female PoW were about to be released.

The officials told the US television network NBC that other images showed soldiers "acting inappropriately with a dead body". A videotape, apparently made by US personnel, is said to show Iraqi guards raping young boys.

Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, had given warning that the worst was yet to come when he gave evidence to the Senate armed services committee on Friday. He said he had looked at the full array of unedited photographs from the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad and found them "hard to believe"

>>>>>>>>>>>>more

[CWebster]

51. Both. There was an account of US contractors & Iraqis

After all, this story has been around for awhile.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

60. Whether it was an Iraqi guard under US command or US soldiers

who raped a child, it was Americans standing by taking a videotape and doing nothing. Standing by and doing nothing while such acts are committed renders the observers of equal guilt as the rapist, in my opinion, especially when the perpetrator is your hired hand. If the police were to stand by and do nothing while observing and videotaping a man rape a child, what would anyone think?

[mopaul]

48. when i was a kid, this kind of behavior was associated with nazis

now, it's our sons and daughters. jeezus, what an awful nation we've become.

[Burried News]

66. As the sign at an antiwar rally posted here a few weeks ago said:

"same shit different assholes" and had side by side pics of George and Adolph.

[Tsiyu]

49. When I tell you that neo-Cons are evil

when I tell you that people like Michaeil Savage and Rush Limbaugh are evil, now do you believe me?

Fraternity pranks?

Just isolated incidents - not Top-Down programming in hatred and vile behavior? Not NeoCon, Fundy Christan sadistic acts? What do Republicans say to this?

How do you cold-hearted people justify THIS? Where was your beloved Jesus in those pictures?

[zulchzulu]

50. Tick tock tick tock...

It's only a matter of time before these images and videos are leaked.

The truth hurts. Too fucking bad.

[Sgent]

64. As much as the grunts

should server time on this, the senior NCO's and Officers should serve a lot more.

I don't know that most 20yo privates have the gumption to declare something an illegal order and refuse to follow it -- espcially when they've been subjected to brainwashing and face potentially getting shot by refusing.

That being said, the 25-40yo who make up the command are the ones that need to be in prison for a long time. I would also include anyone up the chain of command who knew, or had reason to know. Finally, if civilian contractors were involved, turn them over to Iraqi police.