A question about Roberts' children

[Hamlette]

I've heard they are adopted and the adoptions occurred in South America.

If true, why are the kids so "white"? Parental request?

[JDPriestly]

1. This question deserves an answer.

So many American children, including disabled children and children of color, who need families. The Roberts children also deserve a good home, and it's wonderful that the Roberts decided to adopt, but did they special order them by race? If so, why?

Is it so difficult to adopt American children that adoptive parents have to go overseas to find children? If so, shouldn't we make adoption of American children easier and cheaper?

[BIG Sean]

31. Sorry..I disagree

That qustion is none of our business.

[T Town Jake]

42. NO, it doesn't. This "question" is simply horseshit...

...and there's not a single genuine progressive or liberal on the face of the earth who'd stoop to asking it.

[woo me with science]

2. For pete's sake...

can we focus on the man's record already? Please??? What is so enthralling about smearing the family? These posts are getting really tiresome IMO.

[DanCa]

5. Welcome to DU antfarm

And I agree kids are off limits. Were better than the gop.

[LisaL]

7. Exactly. Must we pick on his children? They seem to be under

10 years old, for crying out loud.

[fujiyama]

14. I'm with you on this

I really don't care about where his kids are from and what his wife and kids wear. Who cares if he went abroad to adopt them?

These posts are pissing me off. It's certainly fair to look at the wife's activities with anti chioce groups and how it's affected Robert's own legal opinions. But let's lay off his kids.

[patricia92243]

3. I don't know anything about SA. I thought they had lots of "white" people

or any other color for that matter - the same as we do. I always thought Boinois Aires (sp) was a lot like the US in population, economics, etc. But as I said, I don't know much about SA.

[Lars39]

4. I want to know if they are biological siblings.

I know they're pretty close in age, but it would be possible.

[LisaL]

8. And I would say it is none of your business.

[Lars39]

16. Yes, lizzy, but you're pretty predictable.

[tuvor]

6. Establish whether this is fact or not first.

And if it is a fact, ask your question again.

[auntAgonist]

9. the children are off limits

Why do you feel the need to ask about their heritage, parentage or anything else?

What about the man? Should we not be more concerned about his career as a judge?

lay off the kids.

[johannes1984]

10. children are of limits

the man might be goddamn satan for all i care , yet kids should not be the subject of our concern .True free speech and the lovely confines of DU give freedom for any subject , true it's always those things that stoke the wonderfull feeling which killed the cat .But i ask of you please let's be civilized , a first step maybe on our behalfs to make the US right again .Not because it's wrong to ask those questions , or be interested in the subject , but because it's just not right to go to the man's family , where a nation's heart is at stake .

[DanCa]

11. Welcome johannes1984 I agree with you

[johannes1984]

13. thank you

[China_cat]

19. Except as it might impact on HOW

he got those children. A lot of kids go 'disappeared' in South America. If he has 2 that were 'disappeared' to order, it would say something about his integrity as a judge. If he and his wife specified that they could only have 'aryan' looking children, it speaks to his prejudices and how he would rule about those of color here in our own country.

On those grounds, we have the right to ask the questions.

And to get answers.

[Lars39]

21. I'd like to know if the birth mother(s) rights were upheld

or if she was exploited.
What recourse did she have to get her child back if she was poor and the
child was already out of the country?

[johannes1984]

22. Indeed

Yes and when you have proof to that claim , you can ask those questions and be mighty proud you did .Untill then it could be better to lay of his kids , they're kids ....off limits .When you make such questions without a base or founding element ,you end up being on the side of our fiend the republican hack who asks questions without them having purpose .

But as said earlier , curiosity in this matter is not bad , if you are intent on the idea go research it .But don't just have a chatter about it where it leaves an imprint on people not involved in the research .That would be quite cheap .

Kids and family , and sex , and all else a person as individual indulges in are of limits in the arena of policy unless you are as sure as facts can be they reflect a larger problem .

Aren't we better?

[China_cat]

32. I am NOT hitting on the kids

It is not their fault if the possibility exists that they were illegally obtained.

It DOES matter when it comes to assessing the ethics and integrity of the adults around them.

And if we went by your criteria, we would never question any circumstance where we think that the adults might actually be harmful to the children entrusted to them. Don't ask, don't tell? How many children have been irreparably harmed by that when it comes to their 'parents' or other caretakers?

[johannes1984]

40. all right

good point , yet if such is your concern , it might be better to adress the larger issues at hand .To adress the degrading of children all around the world because the international community does not have the goddamn common sense to protect even ...children .It might be better to adress the amount of children living in poverty , to adress the children in the good ole' USofA who get to be indocterinated or, equally woe filled ,left lost by an underfunded ,under protected education system .

That said , your concern is valid , and your curiosity righteous .So by all means if you feel the need to continue asking questions about his children and his means of inaugrating them into his family to peers , do so .

But in my view of what it is we do , express our opinions on policy and chatter 'boet little things ,it might be prudent to let some things rest as not to add to the already tense situation .rest in the public discourse i mean , not in the endeavor of individual mind .Unless you have a factual security to back up the claim of malevolent intent or act ,suspicion about children and the relation with their parents , should be a measure of extreme emergency in the public discourse .

i might always be wrong or sorely mistaken

[catabryna]

12. As an adoptive parent...

If you were to ask me these sorts of personal questions about my child, I'd run your uninformed ass up a tree. It is none of your damn business how these folks chose to build their family and you have absolutely no idea how these children came to their parents.

Would you ask someone who had a biological child what position they utilized to conceive? Of course not. This is no different. And, FWIW, I adopted a WHITE child with a DISABILITY, and he's my only child. When you can say you have been there and done that, I'd actually give your question a serious answer.

But, at the moment, your intense interest in these kids makes me want to :puke:

[DanCa]

15. Welcome catbryana

Hope to see more of your postings :)

[patricia92243]

18. You go girl!! And welcom to DU. n/t

[Hamlette]

20. wow, I'm surprised you "know" me and my motives so well

I'm a lawyer and I've done adoptions from foreign countries. I have had plenty of potential clients who make what I consider inappropriate requests and will not represent them. Some asked for "white" kids. Some asked for a particular sex. Some had good reasons, some did not.

My question did not have anything to do with the children. I wondered if the parents made a request of the adoption attorney or agency.

Children are off limits. Dad is not.

[catabryna]

26. Being a lawyer

who facilitates foreign adoptions still does not give you the right to attempt to climb into Robert's brain to ascertain why he adopted the children he did. Who knows, maybe it was the wife's choice. We should never have a need to know this information, period.

And, while I'm of the opinion that age and sex of a child shouldn't matter, if a person is going to raise an African-American child in some of the more backward parts of our country; it might be better, not for the parents, but for the child, to not be subjected to being a potential object for ridicule.

As I'm sure you know, there are many reasons why adoptive parents make the choices they do. I chose to adopt a child with special needs, but I certainly don't go around questioning the actions of those who made different choices than I. I know well enough that family dynamics have to be taken into consideration when making these important decisions.

I'm glad you are an ethical lawyer; I happen to work for an ethical laywer, as well. But, without hesitation, I can tell you that he would NEVER ask the question you did, even though he is just as adamantly against the Roberts nomination as well. There are just some things that cross the line; and this is one of them.

[ruggerson]

17. Who the hell cares what color they are?

What an absurd question.

[Southsideirish]

23. I love folks who stake out the moral high ground for themselves

and by doing so wish to imply they are somehow a "better person."

Its a very legitimate question that deserves an answer.

[LisaL]

43. What is the question? Why he adopted white children,

if he did at all? And I am pretty sure if he adopted children of different race, he would have been picked on for that as well. "Why did he take these poor children away from their culture?" It seems like some just want to pick on him for whatever reason. How about sticking to what he did in his job, instead of picking on his little kids?
:eyes:

[UTUSN]

24. I'm Going to Wade in with the O.P. and in Agreement with Post #19

The links in early threads on Mr Perfect were sparse and referred to "Latin America" (not "South America"):

"Roberts and his lawyer-wife, Jane, are the parents of two young children adopted from Latin America{...}"
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0720scotus-rober ...

That said, all of Latin America is chock full of all Caucasian varieties of nationalities, from Irish to Russian to German and all else. Some are very White and some are not.

Imho, it's legitimate to NOTICE that these particular kids look "selected" and since there is a possibility that Mr Perfect might turn out to be a raging Wingnut, it is natural to be wary that there might be an "Aryan" motivation. Also, since the VAST majority of orphaned children in Latin American countries are NOT White and blond, it would seem that the SELECTION process was VERY specific, which might inform on how and why Mr Perfect makes his decisions.

Alrighty, then---ducking out of the room for the time being.

[Hamlette]

29. thanks, UTUSN, for saying what I thought unnecessary in my post

When I was doing adoptions, we all "knew" it was "easier" to get a girl baby from an asian country because more girl babies were put up for adoption in places like Korea and China.

A parent was allowed to choose the sex of the baby they adopted. If a parent did not specify, they would always get a boy. That didn't make sense to me because there were so many girl babies adopted. I learned it was because Americans don't want to adopt boy babies and more often request a girl baby. The reason given was because they do not want the "good family name" to be passed down through a "different" racial line.

I'm not freaking about the Roberts nomination. In some ways, I think he is better than I expected (Edith Jones!) and as good as we might get from this prez. The jury is out however and I'm reserving judgment until I see what is uncovered. I just can't help but think that Roberts told them he wanted white kids. As to perhaps the wife wanting white kids and Roberts just letting her get what she wants, I say racism is one area where a spouse not let "the better half" get away with it...unless there is a good reason.

[Modem Butterfly]

25. I applaud any adoptions, but I remain troubled by foreign adoptions

There are so many children here in the US who are waiting for homes. I wish folks would consider those chilren first.

Regarding the race issue, I think it's pretty likely the Roberts requested white children. Most adoptive parents seem to want children who at least resemble them. In my own case, I'm a different race than my parents, and my adoption took a very short time and was considerably simpler than my brother's, who was adopted a few months before me and who is white.

[mzteris]

28. May I ask you a question?

You stated: "I'm a different race than my parents"

- and I was wondering how you feel about that? What problems, etc? What do you wish your parents had done/said differently?

The reason I'm asking such a personal question - and please forgive me if you feel this is too intrusive - is that I have an adopted 6 yo African American son.

I've been reading some books on adoption in general - and transracial adoption - and they're making me really depressed! They all seem to say that *I* can never really be his MOM, that *I* can NEVER understand, that these kids "wish" that they had've been adopted by someone of their own race, etc. etc.... it just makes me cry to think that my son - who is the light of my life - may someday hate me because I'm white and he's not.....

[Modem Butterfly]

35. Adoption is extremely emotionally complex

I know you've been reading a lot of books, but I recommend you read "The Primal Wound". It's written by a woman who was adopted and who went on to become an adopted parents.

I think that the biggest issue your son will have to face is coming to terms with the fact of his adoption in and of itself. You grow up knowing that somewhere there is a woman who gave birth to you and who gave you away. Anger, self-doubt, isolation, idolization of that woman are extremely natural, but they are also a lot to deal with for a kid. Most adoption resources kind of gloss over this, like that lame-ass adoption poem Dear Abby used to run called "Two Mothers". The hardest thing in the world, for me, was learning how to regard my birth mother and my adoptive mother objectively and simultaneously, neither idolizing nor villifying either of them. The racial issues complicated this for me, but at the heart of it was the same old "nature vs. nurture" conflict folks have been having for centuries.

My folks were wonderful about my adoption, but they couldn't help me through my adoption issues and they can't help me with the issues I face due to race. I don't hold that against them, to me it's like the time my dad tried to explain menstruation to me; he was just not equipped to fully assist me in that area!

Your son may hate you at some point. I started hating my mother about the time I hit fourteen, and I kind of grew out of it by the time I was nineteen or twenty. It's just something kids do as they grow up, all kids, regardless of race or adoption. When I was going through it I would tell my friends that I wish I'd never been adopted, and my friends would tell me they wished they HAD been adopted. For awhile, when I was in high school (and still sometimes as an adult!) I would wish I'd been adopted by multi-millionaries with connections into whatever industry I wanted to try that week. Why couldn't David Geffen have been my adopted dad? Or how about Donald Trump? Why oh why did I have to get adopted by people without an infinite source of cash?

[mzteris]

39. thank you so much.....

**I recommend you read "The Primal Wound". **

Thanks - I'll look for it.


**You grow up knowing that somewhere there is a woman who gave birth to you and who gave you away. Anger, self-doubt, isolation, idolization of that woman are extremely natural, but they are also a lot to deal with for a kid. ***

Up until recently we had contact with the birth mom off and on. We'd always made a point of it when she was "clean", but she really went off the deepend after her last baby (one year old & living with relatives now) and got heavily back into drugs. No one has seen her since January. I had told her no more contact until she was clean/sober for at least two years. This yoyoing wasn't helping him at all.

We still have a little bit of contact with the rest of her family - so I hope he grows up *knowing* that his mom just wasn't capable of taking care of children. (He has two much older half brothers who were taken away from her, too....)



**The racial issues complicated this for me, but at the heart of it was the same old "nature vs. nurture" conflict folks have been having for centuries.**

Would you elaborate on this?


**my dad tried to explain menstruation to me; he was just not equipped to fully assist me in that area!**

That's so funny. But I understand your point.


**Your son may hate you at some point. . . It's just something kids do as they grow up, all kids, regardless of race or adoption. **

YOu're right - ALL kids hate ALL parents at some point....



**When I was going through it I would tell my friends that I wish I'd never been adopted, and my friends would tell me they wished they HAD been adopted. **

I remember fantasizing that *I* had been and that some wonderful OTHER Mother would come and "rescue" me from the "witch" I lived with. LOL...

Again, thank you for your candor. It helps.

Teri

[LisaL]

44. Biological parents have way too many rights in the US.

I presume many people are afraid to adopt here in US in fear that biological mom or pop would show up and demand their kids back.

[Modem Butterfly]

47. The only way that happens...

...is if parental rights weren't properly terminated. Most children in foster care who are adoptable have already had parental rights termed.

[JDPriestly]

45. You are voicing my concern.

So many American children need homes. Many of them are not white. Many have disabilities. Why did the Roberts go overseas? Why did he adopt a white child?

There may be a legitimate reason. It may be difficult for people over 40 to adopt here. If so, we need to change the law. It may take to long to adopt here. If so, we need to change the law. They have wanted a white child. If so, we need to know why? Racial prejudice? Maybe they just happened to be given white children. Maybe the children are actually related to them. Maybe they wanted to have children who look like them so that they don't have to answer so many questions? We don't know, do we. Roberts offered his small children up to scrutiny when he placed them in the center of the stage at his nomination. He has no one to blame but himself if people ask questions about them.

I would like to know why the Roberts and so many other Americans are adopting children from overseas. Most adopt children of other races, but a few adopt white children. I think that, in the case of a Supreme Court justice, we need to know his personal feelings about race. He will be deciding many racial issues including affirmative action cases. This is relevant to his appointment. It's not just a nosy question. It is not a judgment about the children either. It is about their father's attitude toward people of other races.

These issues are all important. Roberts and his wife are now celebrities. Issues in celebrities lives are instructive. Reagan's Alzheimers, Ford's wife's addiction problems, Carter's efforts to build houses for the homeless, Clinton's focus on AIDS in Africa made us more aware.

[catabryna]

48. I'm still concerned that you remain

troubled about folks like me who adopt children from overseas...



Perhaps, it was because a child was dying from malnutrition. Or, maybe it was because there was no adequate medical care available to him. Or perhaps it is closer to the truth to say that it was because he was relegated to an "invalid room" in a Ukrainian orphanage because of the stigma associated with disabilities that lead orphanage workers and Ukrainian families to believe him to be unadoptable with no regard given at all to his mind; which by the way was also being laid to waste while he spent the first 18 months of his life staring at a ceiling with no love, no touch and no stimulation.

At least the childen in our system get education, medical care and good nutrition.

My situation may not be the norm, but there are many adoptive parents here in the United States who have given these children a life that they wouldn't have otherwise had.

And, before any of you accuse me of "using" my son to make a point; you are right, I am. I want to see these special children adopted!

[Modem Butterfly]

49. We have nearly 800,000 children in the US who need homes

So many that, in fact, foreign couples are beginning to adopt our children. That is a shameful state of affairs.

[catabryna]

50. Completely agree...

it is shameful. All children deserve homes.

[kweerwolf]

27. On the other hand ...

... maybe be can get the freepers and fundies to raise the issue of why Roberts' son was so "undisciplined" during *'s introduction of his dad.

Surely that a sign of poor family values! Not to mention that Roberts didn't stone his disobedient kid to death, as the Bible clearly calls for!

[zanne]

30. I don't know, but they are cute.

Don't care for Roberts or his wife, but I've gotta admit, the kids made me smile.

[Stirk]

33. There are alot of caucasians in South America, you know.

Go to Brazil or Bolivia and you'll be eating mostly German and Italian food.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

34. It's possible.

Not all of the Latin American population is mixed. There are still some unmixed Spanish that live there, particulary in Argentina and Uruguay.

[tx_dem41]

36. An answer: Why does it matter? n/t

[deadparrot]

37. Can we leave kids out of this, please?

These are young children, who can't help who their parents are. Let them be.

I'm just happy they were adopted, as opposed to living in a decrepit orphanage for their entire lives.

[name not needed]

38. How about leaving his kids out of this?

[anitar1]

41. many south americans are blonde and have

light complexions. It is not at all unusual.

[jmm]

46. I doubt they knew what the children would grow up to look like

Most people involved in foreign adoptions don't get the chance to meet both of the biological parents. Also I've known numerous "white" people from South America. Seeing the children after they're born isn't even a good indicator either. Many children, including most in my family, are born looking white and take awhile to get darker.