Don't be surprised if Gonzalez Fires Fitzgeralg

[Imagevision]

Push come to shove Nixon had the special prosecutor fired in Watergate so don't be surprised when they start the smear campaign on Fitzgerald once the heat gets turned up!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I'm expecting it

[dmr]

56. My bet is the CIA will keep this thing alive with Fitz -

The organized mob in the White House screwed with the wrong people.

It's not just the White House / GOP hubris that has messed them up; they just didn't think through this clearly.

The White House mob didn't factor in the ramifications of outing and endangering not just one member of the CIA, but the whole system in which many risk their lives. These agents are professionals when it comes to manipulation. Agents who are masters of thwarting governments; masters of getting the goods on people, places and things. My bet is the White House is shitting bricks, and all the BS they are throwing out is just that - BS.

My bet is on the pissed off CIA agents.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

75. The minute that Tenet demanded that the DoJ launch a criminal....

...investigation of the outing of Plame and her network, that was the exact moment that the NeoCons knew they were toast. They are on a long downhill slide, and they know it.

[Talismom]

83. This is the most hopeful and exciting entry I've read in ages! n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

84. My bet is that if the system doesn't work then the CIA will find ..

another way to remove the problem in the White House.

[acmavm]

2. That was a stupid move when Nixon did it, it would be just as stupid,

if not moreso, now.

[Boomer]

4. That was then

At one time the American people seemed capable of smelling a rat, but these days I know longer have any expectation that such a brazen move would even raise a fuss.

[Imagevision]

6. When your in a corner - you do what yopu have to do!!

[annabanana]

9. (WE are now officially in a corner too). . . . n/t

[Imagevision]

8. stupid move? - what's going to happen? ans uproar? yaaaawn!~

[whistle]

10. It was stupid because Nixon had to fire AG Richardson who....

...would not carry out a direct command from the president and then hired on another attorney general who carried out the order. Gonzales won't hesitate to do whatever Bush tells him which will make Bush look powerful.

[Spinzonner]

66. You have the Saturday Night Massacre story a bit wrong

Richardson refused and resigned, William Ruckelshaus also refused and resigned and the Robert Bork - that Bork - who was Solicitor General did the dirty deed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Richardson

[whistle]

72. Thank you I did forget about two Attorneys General and also

....never realized that Robert Bork was the bastard that ultimately did the dirty deed. How well these things get hidden!

[wryter2000]

3. He won't do it himself

He'll have Robert Bork do it. :evilgrin:

[tuvor]

5. It didn't work for Nixon.

Why should it work for bush?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

7. There was a real news media then. And, the public was not so cynical

and ignorant at the same time, I think.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

76. Don't look now, but the media appears to have gotten...

...new marching orders.

[autorank]

11. That frees Fitzgerald to talk ... and LEAK. Hell to pay...

The similarities are there, that's for sure. But they're similarities to Fisk not Watergate. Fisk, the Whitewater investigator who was to clear Clinton, was fired by Judges (the odious three). This time someone will have to step up to the plate and it has to be Gonzales. Nobody else can handle it. Fitzgerald can indict soon and get away with it. I dare them to fire him after he's done that. I think he'll surprise us. I'm thinking that Judi Miller might even be a decoy, smoke screen while Fitzgerald does some other digging. This guys tough and he'll know what to do. Indict early!

[Cha]

68. And..

"LEAK"! :D

[Occulus]

79. Watch him say "check" and

indict the President. :evilgrin:

[autorank]

80. Well, Bush did hire a DC criminal attorney....hmmm...wonder why?

Could it be he thinks that he might be indicted. Oh, the horror...

:evilgrin::rofl::evilgrin:

[Imagevision]

12. If Gonzalez fired Fitzgerald would you feel .....irate? - that will get

you alot--yaaawwnnn... Dems seem to be blowing it! it seems like all we have is Conyers!

[RagAss]

13. You are Right On the Mark

The nightmares haven't even begun yet and this will be the least of them. There's a reason that people like McCain don't dare speak against this administration. You can see the fear in his eyes when he's questioned about the leaks and the Iraq war. He knows what's coming. Most of us have yet to wake up.

[FreedomAngel82]

19. I think so too

I think that's why he does a lot of ass kissing. I've always wondered why about that. I think that's why too. Fear. He doesn't want to be in Bush's wrath.

[1monster]

38. All the more reason for him to speak up. If he sees something really bad

coming, then he should speak up in order to at least try to circumvent it.

He won't.

I've never had any faith in John McCain. He may have talked the talk for a long time, but he never walked the walk.

[Joy Anne]

61. Keating Five

Nobody seems to remember McCain's part in the S&L scandals in the 1980s.

[Lecky]

45. McCain doesn't dare speak against this admin b/c he wants to run in 08'

[Talismom]

85. That's right, fear is allowing them to run the show now.

I wish someone in a high place would read a little history and realize that such thugs count on fear immobilizing those with good intentions. They are really bullys and cowards who fall apart when faced with some courage. I'm hopeful cause they picked the wrong guys when they picked fights with the likes of Joseph Wilson or Richard Clarke. I suspect that the CIA is full of people with more courage than what John McCain is showing.

[DefenseLawyer]

14. I believe Nixon was officially in his "last throes"

once that happened. If Bush really made that move people could start legitimately talking impeachment, because it would mean Bush and/or Cheney were implicated.

[Imagevision]

15. talking impeachment? -- Bush said he would fire leaker what more has

to be said about Bush - now there has to be a crime committed and that crime must have happened on a rainy tuesday night between the hours of 5:00pm - 11:0pm

[DefenseLawyer]

18. I'm not saying

he would be impeached for recreating the "Saturday Night Massacre", I'm saying that Bush would let Rove go before he took such an action. Bush would only take such a move to protect his own ass.

[Imagevision]

21. duh! - Bush and Cheney are involved in outing Plame - do you

possibly think that Wilson smear campaign went on without Bush & Cheney aware of it???

Wilson tld the tale of Bush fixing the policies --way back then! but no-ooo no-ne paid any attention to it until now!!!!!

[Imagevision]

24. I already heard Spector bad mouthng Fitzgerald -- watch Limbaugh-Hannity

follow suit as we lead up to October and the heat rises with Bush & Cheney!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. Their crap's not playing very well with the media anymore....

...seems the media has been given different marching orders by their corporate owners.

[CoffeeCat]

78. I heard Limbaugh the other day, praise Fitz...

...he specifically mentioned that Fitzgerald was "excellent".

At least Rush is on the record--on his own show--praising Fitzgerald.

If Rush and ilk begin attacking Fitzgerald--at least it will be blatantly obvious that Rush is being a partisan, biased piece of lying trash.

[DefenseLawyer]

25. I agree, but what I think doesn't matter all that much

I'm just saying that if you see Bush firing the special prosecutor it mean that HE thinks investigation is leading to him. Remember, Nixon didn't fire Cox for investigating Watergate, he fired him because he subpoenaed the tapes, and Nixon knew that once the tapes were out he was toast.

[immoderate]

47. Cheney was aware, I wonder about Bush.

If he claims he was out of the loop, it would be plausible to me. Not beyond him, just above him.

--IMM

[WhiteTara]

52. policy bores him. not gossip eom

[immoderate]

53. LOL!

--IMM

[FreedomAngel82]

16. I wonder if they will though

Wouldn't this send out a bad sign? This is already getting publicity and if they fire Fitzgerald they'll have to have some REALLY good excuse as to why. Then it'll show they're guilty and now they're trying to prove Rove is "innocent" (heh).

[flordehinojos]

17. poppy could have fitzgerald put out of the way...like he did wellstone.

[Imagevision]

26. Wellstone? -- that was a very gray area!!!

[flordehinojos]

29. yeah..just like poppy likes it--and sonny boy does too!

[Talismom]

86. I've always suspected it and still do. Do you have any good

links to support this?

[flordehinojos]

89. i am sad to say that i don't.

:-(

[Pepperbelly]

20. I promise I won't.

Except I expected it this weekend.

[kentuck]

22. More likely, Gonzales will resign and Bush will give him a Medal..

of Freedom - just like he did Tenet when Tenet asked for an investigation....

[acmavm]

23. It will be a big mistake for the same reason it was with Nixon. This

administration has the same weakness as the Nixon administration did. It's called hubris:
****************
hybrs) also hy·bris (h-)
n.
Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: “There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris” (McGeorge Bundy).
*****************
In their overbearing pride or presumption they forget that there is danger in going to far. These people, contrary to any rumors you may have heard, are not very smart. They are basically thugs.

There are two ways to get on in life. Intelligence or being a thug, someone for which no act is too low not to stoop to, no lie to ridiculous or dirty not to tell.

All I can do is compare them to Gotti or Capone. In the end, it got 'em. And it wasn't so much their crimes (although you had to justify incarceration someway), it was their arrogance, their thumbing their noses at all authority and what could conceivably be perceived as the very basic rules we have to live by and still maintain a civilized society. There isn't a moral tenet that these clowns haven't spit on, haven't drug through the dirt. In fact, I have more respect for the Capone's and the Gotti's because while they're running rampant through society's checks and balances, they at least aren't telling you that they're doing it for your own good. They are what they are. Businessmen. Not nice businessmen, but oh well. The bat shit crazy clowns in the bush** administration use every pathetic excuse there is, from "it's for your own good" to the really ridiculous "God told me to do it".

pResident Unelected and his band of theives, thugs, and felons have no idea when to quit. They're making fools out of honest people who belong to the republican party (I know that sounds funny, but there are some. And I don't mean McCain).

Nope, they've gone over an invisible line. And since they were sooooo arrogant (made so by the successful theft of the 2000 election), they didn't make any contingency plans for if their schemes and dreams all went to shit. And that is how they/we got to where we are today. It's push has come to shove time. And when they push, we need to shove back, as hard as we can. We have a few decent honest reps we can go to. We just have to do it loudly and in large numbers. THAT IS HOW NIXON WAS DEFEATED. It's going to be harder, but it can be done.

[Imagevision]

31. When your boxed into a corner -- push comes to shove

Spe3ctor today already started accusing Futzgerald of being; "over zealous"???? watch - Limbaugh hannity to take their cue...

[Walt Starr]

27. The reason they will fire Fitzgerald is already out there

Fitzgerald hire raises eyebrows
Staffer played key role in selecting prosecutor


By Greg Hinz

U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, who has tormented City Hall and the White House with unrelenting probes of political misconduct, has hired a former congressional aide who played a key role in getting him his job.

Mr. Fitzgerald hired Margaret Hickey eight months ago as an assistant U.S. attorney here, earning about $142,000 a year. Until a few days before that, she was Illinois chief of staff and general counsel for then-U.S. Sen. Peter Fitzgerald, who recommended Patrick Fitzgerald to the White House.

Ms. Hickey was one of two Senate staffers who assisted Sen. Fitzgerald in making his choice.

<snip>

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=17218

It's out there and it's a built in excuse to fire Fitzgerald. They also will be able to say the firing is not linked to the investigation.

[Imagevision]

32. Don't forget, Ashcoft hired Fitzgerald after recuseing himself

because the investigation involved fat-boy Rove!

[H2O Man]

43. No, he didn't.

Ashcroft did not hire Fitzgerald. It's important to understand how Fitzgerald was appointed, because therein lies the reason Gonzales cannot "fire" him.

[Imagevision]

48. No, you got it wrong, Ashcroft positively hired Fitzgerald after

recuseing himself because he knew Rove issue would come up.

[H2O Man]

51. No, he didn't.

You can't recuse yourself, and then take an action. Everyone familiar with the case knows who "hired" Fitzgerald.

[kentuck]

55. Help me out here....?

I was under the impression that the CIA (George Tenet) requested an investigation after the leak became public? And Ashroft at the Justice Dept was responsible for choosing a Special Prosecutor? What am I missing?

[crispini]

57. Wasn't Ashcroft.

It was the Deputy AG at the time; Ashcroft recused himself.

[H2O Man]

65. Correct.

Ashcroft had employed Rove as a consultant years before. In fact, it was Rove who had personally intervened to have Ashcroft appointed Attorney General. After the CIA left messages with the chief of the DoJ's Counterespionage unit (7-24-03) and then sent two letters to the DoJ Criminal Division (7-30 and 9-5-03), Ashcroft allowed a period of time to pass before recusing himself.

The authority for the case was then passed to James Comey. He assigned the responsibility for investigating it to Fitzgerald. This included delegating his authority to Fitzgerald, something the OP fails to appreciate.

Thus said, "firing" Fitzgerald would be extremely difficult. It is unlikely that Gonzales has the authority, although the DoJ did not fully back the level of authority Comey granted Fitzgerald. (!) That Bush could fire him is not in dispute; that it would be the single worst mistake he could possibly make at this time is not, either.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

33. Mr. Wonderful

With positive opinions on why Fitzgerald is now doomed.

Anything else you care to throw water on?

[Walt Starr]

35. I didn't say they would do it

I just pointed to the excuse they will use if they do fire him.

[Imagevision]

39. Spector today alraedy accused Fitz for being over-zealous in his

investigation skick -- just warning of what may be in the near future.

[blue neen]

71. That's the third time in this thread that you've told us that.

Aren't you being a little over-zealous with your gloom and doom mantra?

[H2O Man]

34. Not for that.

That would not be cause to dismiss him on this case. More importantly, of course, is that in these circumstances, Gonzales does not have the authority to fire him. Only Bush does. (The circumstances of his being assigned create equal status between him and A.T.)

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

37. Shrub Does That Constantly

Shrub always gives people jobs after they do favors for him. They'd have to sack the whole administration, because he's constantly giving paybacks. Just look at bolton & roberts. 2 men responsible for his '00 Selection.

[Lecky]

49. Seriously it's like the mafia

Except I think Cheney is the Godfather, not Shrub.

[ThoughtCriminal]

41. Just a note - Sen. Peter Fitzgerald is a Republican

Odds are Hickey is too, so I don't think there is any way they can claim the appointment was partisan.

[Stirk]

28. It's too late for that.

They could've done so with little media attention just a few months ago, but now it's become a huge story.

They can't just completely disregard public opinion here, either. If the Bush Administration were to fire Fitzgerald now, they'd leave little doubt in anyone's mind that they were all guilty. The 2006 elections would be too lop-sided to steal, and they'd looking at impeachment soon after.

[acmavm]

36. Agreed. They might as well all take out a billboard and have a confession

printed on it. That's exactly what it will amount to if he's fired.

[Imagevision]

42. Yes but past events prove Bush will do whatever he damn well pleases

[acmavm]

59. Ok, then frigging forget it. Let him strut around and do whatever he

wants. And let's all just keep silent, because we can't do anything about it. Wahhhhhh!

[Imagevision]

40. One ofthe greatest thing about Plamrgate is 2006 elections coming!

[RagAss]

30. Kicked and Nominated

[Lecky]

44. Nope, no way

there is no way in Hell the press, the Democrats or the CIA would let them get away with that.

[Imagevision]

50. Why not?? they allowed Bush to get away with Iraq!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

81. LOL!

You're joking, I assume?

Just what are the press, the Democrats or the CIA going to do?

[lala_rawraw]

46. If that happens, some shit is going

To go wild... people are far too involved in this case.

[redacted]

54. But . . .Right now Bush has clean hands. But if he fires Fitz the coverup

suddenly points directly to him. Maybe not legally, but certainly in the eyes of the public. When push comes to shove Bush will sacrifice Rove and Libby if absolutely necessary.

[Imagevision]

64. Bush has clean hands?? - surely you jest!

[redacted]

77. Technically yes. So far there has been no evidence given that Bush KNEW

Rove was going to, or had outed Plame. At least none reported.

That doesn't mean I don't think he's probably guilty as hell, but so far Bush himself, does not appear to be a target (or even a subject) of Fitzgerald's investigation -- just a witness.

[Paula Sims]

58. I also fully expect it

However, we'd have another Cox situation on our hands. Too easy to use as a campaigning issue. Then again, there's that hubris again.


Paula

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

60. They may not fire Fitzgerald but

they may allow indictments to be returned. Then for the actual trial, they may assign a senior attorney to take over the prosecution, keeping Fitzgerald on the legal team in an Assistant role. Then Bush can have free rein to offer a sweetheart deal or plea bargain to Rove, Libby, et al. It would be up to the Justice Department to decide how to prosecute. They might have Rove and Libby or anyone else charged plead guilty to a minor charge and pay a fine, but do no jail time at all. I suspect this will end with payment of a fine and little more. Bush can then go before the American public and proclaim "see, I've gotten to the bottom of this" while still keeping Rove and Libby out of prison and around to serve him, although perhaps not in official government positions. This is what I think these scheming evil scum would do.

[bvar22]

67. Your assessment....

...seems very grounded in reality.

That PISSES ME OFF!
I want the fucks to BURN.

[Talismom]

87. I agree, that assessment seems to be exactly their MO.

It's so frightening to think that they could just undo all this work and incriminating evidence!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

62. How much you wanta bet?

[Lannes]

63. Hopefully he will have the investigation wrapped up by october

So we dont have to worry about it being cut short by higher ups.

[TacticalPeek]

69. Impossible - Gonzales has recused himself.

From today's Faux interview -


GONZALES: I was asked to testify. This was over a year ago. I did testify before the grand jury, yes.

HUME: And can you tell us if you at any time were aware of Valerie Plame either by name or by identification with Joseph Wilson, were you aware that she was in the CIA. If you were, did you have an idea of what kind of work she was doing?

GONZALES: Well, let me begin by answering that question by saying, Brit, that I am recused from this investigation...

HUME: I understand that.

GONZALES: ...because of the period of time that I was in the White House. And of course I have given grand jury testimony. But I had no information regarding Ms. Plame and her role at the CIA.

HUME: So you didn't know. When did you first learn about that she was CIA? Do you recall?

GONZALES: I believe I first learned about it, Brit, at the same time that most Americans did, and that's when the stories began running about her role.

HUME: So, basically, you read about it in the paper?

GONZALES: That's correct.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163479,00.html



( pardon the ref )

[electron_blue]

70. Gosh, after reading all this, I'd be surprised if he didn't

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. He can't....Fitzgerald doesn't report to the AG or anyone else in the....

...AG's chain of command.

Fitz was given the same powers as an independent counsel, and he reports only to the judges overseeing the Grand Jury.

Additionally, any attempt at this point in time to fire Fitz would be see as an admission of guilt...an image the NeoCons don't want to project.

[sattahipdeep]

82. Horse Shite.

Patrick J. Fitzgerald began serving as the United States Attorney for the
Northern District of Illinois on September 1, 2001. Mr. Fitzgerald was initially
appointed on an interim basis by Attorney General John Ashcroft before being
nominated by President George W. Bush. The United States Senate confirmed his
nomination by unanimous consent on October 23, 2001, and President Bush signed
his commission on October 29, 2001.

Mr. Fitzgerald served on the Attorney General's Advisory Committee
from 2001-2005, and he remains Chair of that Committee's sub-committee on terrorism.
He is also a member of the President's Corporate Fraud Task Force.
In December 2003, he was named Special Counsel to investigate the alleged disclosure
of the identity of a purported employee of the Central Intelligence Agency.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/aboutus/patrickjfizgerald.html

[sunnystarr]

88. I'm betting that Fitzgerald will indict in August. (nt)