Don't say Pro-life.

[mykpart]

Don't refer to them as Pro-life. They are anti-choice. I am pro-life & pro-choice. I am offended when I hear these RWr's referred to as Pro-Life. When they hold a "memorial service" for aborted babies, pro-choice people must hold a memorial service for all the women who died from illegal abortions and/or unsafe pregnancies. Look back at the literature from before Roe v Wade and use it again. I'm sick of being told I support baby killers.

[Wetzelbill]

1. yeah, hell yeah

Great post. I say anti-choice too.

[DanCa]

2. When I lobby for parkinson's i have been called everything

I have been called everything from an embryo farmer to a toddler killer. A priest told me once that I have pd because I want to kill babies. I dont know what these people are but as Al sharpton says the Christian Right arent the Right Christians.

[The Doctor.]

7. Sad, sad, ignorant people...

They experience a 'feeling' when considering an issue... usually with misconceptions about many aspects of the issue.

From that point, the visceral response dictates their perception of any new information. They develop a 'self-propagating perspective'.
They are incapable of extracting a logical, rational, or thoughful response to any of the criteria which they have assigned a negative emotional reaction.

They are literally incapable of reason. No matter what you say, they will not consider that it is ever beneficial because they've adopted the 'Kill Babies' meme.

[DanCa]

9. Thank you

That's the problem. They learn learn by repetition and fear. And isn't it interesting that President Bush wants Robert's term to start at october which is pro life month?

[mykpart]

12. Yeah! How about a moratorium on state executions during "Pro-Life" month?

[The Doctor.]

17. That's brilliant.

I think that would be very appropriate.

But then we'd have to stop killing so many other people too...

And we might have to start providing medical care for terminally ill poor people...

and....

[DanCa]

20. Hey howabout this

No bullets for prolifer's during october either. I never understood pro life pro gun any way.

[The Doctor.]

15. How they get a month to themselves?

Here's a neat little factoid;

Nearly 20% of abortions are sought by self-described "Pro-Life" women.
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

So how many do you figure don't say whether they are 'pro-life'?


I think the best part of that statistic is that you can walk up to a group of more than five 'pro-life' women and tell them that statistic.
Then say, "That means that it is more likely than not that at least one of you in this group has had an abortion but is keeping it a secret."

Now, unless one of them says something like, "Yes, and I wish I hadn't" (like that hypocrite actress whose name escapes me right now), you have just effectively messed with all of them.

They will never be sure who among them may be hiding something...

[DanCa]

16. My sister attends a fundamentalist church

It's in the flyer I don't think it's a national thing yet.

[XemaSab]

47. ooooh, good call...

"catapult the propaganda."

that might be a good flyer campaign for my small, conservative town.

your stats are a bit backwards as far as % of pro-life women who have had abortions, but nevertheless it's an instructive tool.

And anyone who has had an abortion who is now "pro-life" is a damn hypocrite who doesn't want other people to be free to make the same choices that she made.

[Pachamama]

3. Pro-life really means "Pro-blastocyst", Pro-embryo, Pro-fetus"...

once the baby is born, well, its on its own...and if its a poor brown baby born into poverty or ends up dieing young, well that was just the way it works out...Or if they can grow up to be a soldier and be sent off to kill other "babies" like themselves, then again that too is the way it works out....

They don't care about "life"....they care about "Birth"...everything after that is irrelevant...

[DanCa]

6. Pro carbon Atom

You and I are made up of carbon atoms. So can the Fristians BBQ, use coal, wear diamonds, and use diamonds without it being a step away from murder? I want to buy these people a microscope and a copy of the sermon of the mound.

[ArkDem]

38. What is the sermon of the mound?

[mopinko]

45. that's mount

blessed are the peacemakers for they shall inherit the earth and all that.

[Fridays Child]

4. Thank you. I feel exactly the same way about it.

[Vektor]

5. I agree.

There's no "pro-life" about these people.

Anti-choice is a much more fitting term, and also what I use to describe these hypocrites.

[The Doctor.]

8. I agree...

(repost)

The tragedy here is that this debate has been fully framed by a complete misconception. And that is that 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice' are diametrically opposed positions.

They are not.

I would wager that the vast majority of 'Pro-Choice' advocates do not usually look favorably on pregnancy terminations.

I think the vast majority of reasonable people can agree that abortions are not usually a 'good' thing.

It is the unreasonable people who have screwed this issue out of recognition.

I am Pro-life and Pro-choice.

[DanCa]

10. I consider myself proneutreal

As long as Roe is not over turned and people would stop harrassing rape victims at clinics I wouldn't care what they did on "private property". Who said your right's end where my nose begins?

[sagesnow]

18. Love your animated yin yang

icon. Did you design it? Nice.

[Roxy66]

11. Anti-Choice!!!

[DanCa]

13. Welcome to DU Roxy66

[sagesnow]

14. I think of fundies as Forced Birth Advocates

Not sure were I read that. Most likely on DU.

We were talking about the abortion issue today at the Democratic booth at the county fair. Someone said Republicans make sure the children are born, Democrats make sure they are taken care of after they are here. National healthcare including free contraception and family planning would be the best answer. Too bad we don't live in a rational country were all children are wanted and can look forward to a prosperous future.

[DanCa]

19. welcome aboard sagesnow

I love that gop wants babies born democrats wants babies taken care of. How dare the rethugs say that thier morally superior when they deny rights to miniorities, gays, start fradulent wars, and want to shoot everything in sight. Okay my dopamine is kicking in. I am better now. Seriously welcome to Du :D

[yodermon]

37. If fundies are for Forced Birth,

..then they should not mind in the slightest to be subjected to Forced Adoption.

That's right. If you feel that you can compel every pregnant woman to give birth, then you should have no problem with US compelling YOU to adopt that baby. EVERY unwated baby.

Think it'll fly? :eyes:

[CrispyQ]

52. Agreed.

[BlakeB]

21. Some good talking points here.

[DanCa]

22. welcome to DU Blake B

[Czolgosz]

23. If you are pro-life you SHOULD be pro-choice.

Belgium and the Netherlands, where abortions are completely legal and widely available, have very low abortion rates near 7 per 1,000 women while Peru and Chile, where abortion is almost completely outlawed, have high abortion rates near 50 per 1,000 women.

In the US, the abortion rate fell under pro-choice Clinton but appears to be rising again under anti-choice Bush.

Clearly, criminalizing abortion is not the most effective means of promoting a pro-life agenda -- eliminating the economic stress on women is the best way to promote a pro-life agenda.

I'm pro-life and pro-choice. Anyone who is serious about the pro-life agenda SHOULD be pro-choice.

[johannes1984]

35. it's true , we have very low rates

In fact we're having quite the baby-boom ....no kidding ....everyone's having children , it's madness ....

But that could be because we don't have any fear when it comes to our children having to fear our government .Could just be that everyone has social security ...i sure as shit know it ain't the weather .I know , I know , only 30 percent of the citizens believe in religion ,and we have 3 BBC"s


But seriously the gay wedding and abortian and euthanasia , and free health care ideas made us feel more secure as a nation ....dare i say it ...yes even the right , which is the pro-choice-pro-gay marriage ,pro social sec, anti muslim right , is growing smaller .

belgium is even seeing the first groups of arab immigrants' children adopt our lovely decadent western atheist ways ...

it's a miracle i tell you ...

well it's not all great and good but for the most part , at this time , it's good to say the least

[dalaigh lllama]

40. Pro-choice and pro-life here.

I don't know of anyone who is "pro-choice" who thinks abortion is the ideal solution. I think it needs to remain available as a last resort until society is educated enough (cha!) to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Speaking of "education" -- my daughter and I were looking at old home movies of her first communion (back when we were still practicing catholics). My daughter noted that of the four little girls in the ceremony (small town, here), she was the only one who hadn't become pregnant before she got married. I've since wondered if a little more emphasis on sex education might have changed the way these kids "attained" adulthood.

Do you have a source for the statistics on abortion rates falling under Clinton and rising under Bush? I have heard this before, but never seen the stats.

[Czolgosz]

51. Catholics are equally likely as women in the general American population

and more likely than Protestant women to have an abortion. See <http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/2814096.html>.

In 2000, the abortion rate for women over 20 years old and living under the federal poverty line was 43 per 1,000. Yet for women of the same age living at over 300 percent of the federal poverty line the rate was 10 per 1,000. Clearly, religious moralizing is not as effective as bringing women above the poverty as a means of reducing the number of abortions.

[klyon]

57. yes that is exactly my position also

I am sure the situation with the girls has been repeated many many times in many different places. I am concerned young people aren't getting good info.

KL

[Violet_Crumble]

24. I never have...

They're anti-choice, and in the case of most of them, pro-death when it comes to bombing living breathing babies in Iraq. I've got nothing but contempt for them...

Violet...

[VOX]

25. Yes! Also, don't say "conservative." They are *radical right wingers.*

If the RW was truly "pro-life," they'd care more about human beings once they're past the "innocent" fetal stage. They'd care about hungry and homeless children, and grown children being sent off to fight a corporate war. They'd denounce such birth control-after-the-fact tragedies like capital punishment (especially the way it's applied in this country), handgun proliferation and warfare. But they don't, and they wont, so they aren't really "pro-life" at all.

Nor are they "conservative." A true conservative believes in the Constitution, smaller government, fiscal responsibility, individual freedoms, and de-emphasizes nation-building abroad. In what way do those individuals currently controlling this country resemble true conservatives? The Constitution has been made a mockery, government has metastasized into something hideous, billions of dollars have been fed to corporations or lost outright, and freedoms have been severely abridged.

The fact is, they are NOT conservative -- they are **radical right wingers**, with a radical agenda, and their goal is power -- they want to control this country, and in fact, the world, for the greater portion of the 21st Century. :grr:

[I Have A Dream]

28. Amen! n/t

[CrispyQ]

53. You have a great LTTE there!!! --eom

[Hello_Kitty]

26. Forced- birthers is what I call them.

Thanks to learning that one on DU!

[Pool Hall Ace]

36. Yep, they're forced birthers.

It has nothing to do with life. Do you think they hold memorial services for inmates executed by the state? Of course not, because so many of them favor the death penalty. That's not consistent with being pro-life.

[I Have A Dream]

27. I never use the term pro-life. It's always pro-choice or anti-choice.

I feel exactly the same way that you do.

[Tsiyu]

29. What if we made it the law of the land

that fathers had to also be "life support" for their offspring?

If a father has a sick child who needs spinal fluid, blood, lung, or kidney, we force him to enter the hospital and - even if his own life is put at risk - we take whatever the child needs.


That is their concept of "Pro Life."

[area51]

30. anti-female.

Anti-choice people know damned well that making abortion illegal won't stop it; it'll merely punish women for having sex. They want women to die horribly in back-alley abortions. Anti-choice people are anti-female.

[Paradise]

31. Pro-Life/Pro-Choice, Here! n/t

[OrlandoGator]

32. You can't be pro-war and pro life.

That's the inverse of a bumper sticker I saw yesterday that says "You can't be Catholic and pro-abortion."

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

33. How 'bout anti-privacy? n/t

MKJ

[cmd]

34. Illegel abortion advocates

Help me think of a better way to say it.

[Toucano]

39. YOU ROCK!

Thank you.

[July]

41. And while we're at it, don't say partial-birth abortion.

Simplest substitute would be late-term abortion.

I'm so tired of seeing newspapers and even PLANNED PARENTHOOD saying things like "so-called partial birth abortion" or "a procedure critics call partial-birth abortion." That is a victory for those who are trying to convince the rest of us that abortion is murder of a child. They force everyone else to use THEIR loaded term.

If the removal of a fetus's tissue during abortion is "partial-birth," what is any other procedure that involves the uterine canal as the point of removal of tissue (e.g., cysts, tumors, endometrial tissue, etc.)? That canal is the point through which anything in the uterus is removed, and the anti-choicers are using the notion of birth, which also occurs through the same canal, to beg the question of whether a fetus is the same as a born child. (And by "beg the question" I don't mean "raise the question" but rather "assume as a given that which has not been proved").

In addition, why aren't they calling ALL abortions "partial-birth" abortions? Same point of exit for tissue, after all.

"Late-term abortion" would be simple and direct and would get around the awkward locutions writers usually come up with, though in medicine it may be known as intact D & X (dilation and extraction) or intact D & E (dilation and evacuation).

[NJmaverick]

42. Typical right wing trickiery

They are anti freedom, yet they manipulate the language to hide that fact.

[two gun sid]

43. These people are not pro-life...

it is all about controlling women and their bodies.

[jbnow]

44. I'll keep saying Pro-life

Just not in reference to the anti-choice.

Pro-life is a wonderful thing...we care about the quality of life, how people are treated, tending to the earth that supports us. Honoring those who look or believe differently.

I honor anyones choice to not have an abortion under any circumstances but I will never honor their forcing their standards on others.

And I have some trouble believing that if the girlfriend of some cheating anti-choice politician got pregnant he would encourage her to have the child.

I am not for abortion, who is? But I am for the right to choose that, knowing in this imperfect world it is sometimes the best choice.

[davsand]

46. Anti-choice, pure and simple.

They always have been and will remain Anti- choice in my vocabulary. I have other more private terms for them that I simply can't post here, however.

Remember this, When Abortion is illegal WOMEN DIE. You can't get much more blunt than that.


Laura

[YOY]

48. and many think the "Death Penalty" is juuuust ginchy.

Flipping hypocrites.

[prairierose]

49. I call them...

fetus worshippers who are anti-child.

[Tux]

50. True

If they were pro-life, they wouldn't support the death penalty, cuts to welfare programs, wouldn't get mad when Supreme Court says America can't execute kids, support aid to Africa, and many other issues.

[Scout1071]

54. I think "Pro-Privacy" is the best term to date.

[dogday]

55. It is a better way of saying what we believe in

I am so tired of hearing how the Democrats are baby killers. Nobody wants to do that! We just want to assure that a woman has a choice and a voice in what she does with her body.....

[RubyDuby in GA]

56. Call it like it is: Pro-Birth

They're not pro-life or we wouldn't be at war and we'd have mandatory sex ed in every school.

[bejammin075]

62. Pro-Birth

Because after it's born, it's getting a shitty education and funneled into the military.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[catzies]

59. I saw an SUV w/this sticker: "U Can't B Christian & Pro-Choice"

next to a couple of "Support the Troops" yellow ribbons.

I left this note on her windshield:

"U Can't B 'Pro-Life' & Pro-War."

I used her terminolgy to make a point that what they call pro-life really isn't, as we all know.

[mvd]

60. Right on

I have used pro-life before without thinking. But now all I ever say is anti-choice. Anti-choice would be framing the argument our way while also telling the truth. When they call us pro-abortion, it is a complete lie!

[Nobody]

61. The question isn't even choice, it's who gets to make that choice.

They're pro-choice, just not pro your choice. They're in favor of making choices for others, and not having to live with the consequences.

They'll say it's OK to abort in the case of rape. But they want to be the ones who decide if a rape took place. I for one have no intention of opening up any police records I may have been involved in.

They'll say it's OK to abort in the case of the woman's life being in danger, but by gum they're the one's who decide how much danger is too much. And they'll pay no mind to any existing children or spouse who might be left behind. And by the way, they have no right to access my medical records, nor will I grant them that right.

In short, abortion is just fine and dandy but only if they approve of the reasons given, and they'll never believe you aren't just saying what they want to hear. They just want to poke their noses in places they don't belong and make your choices for you, because everyone knows you can never ever trust a woman to do the right thing and if she does, it's for the wrong reasons.

[TexasThoughtCriminal]

63. Also stay away from "partial birth abortion"

I made that mistake once without even realizing that I was speaking like a fundie. It's "late term abortion".

When you let them define the terms of communication, you've already lost.

[Old Hickory Fan]

64. I prefer anti-privacy to describe them