Jane Fonda plans anti-war bus tour

[trumad]

<snip>
Prompted by a question from the audience, Fonda said war veterans that she has met on a nationwide book tour have encouraged her to break her silence on the Iraq war. <end snip>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8699776/

I know a lot of Vietnam Vets, Democrat and Republican/Pro-War. Anti-War,.........and everyone of them hate Jane Fonda's guts.

[Stand and Fight]

1. So what if Vietnam Vets hate her guts!

The article does not specify if it is Vietnam War veterans who are encouraging her to to speak out. It could just as well be that veterans of this quagmire in Iraq are encouraging her to speak out because they know of her past. Veterans from the Vietnam War who haven't gotten over feelings from over thirty years ago have some pressing issues if that is more important to them than what is currently going on. Either way, it doesn't make a damn difference, because this war is wrong no matter how war mongers spin it. If Jane Fonda wants to protest and participate in the current anti-war movement, more power to her! Go Jane! We don't see them organizing with the anti-war movement, so until they drop the kool-aid and wake the fuck up, to hell with them.

[KurtNYC]

2. "in a bus that runs on vegetable oil" ?!

Did they get this story from The Onion by mistake?

[meganmonkey]

5. Bio-diesel blends - getting pretty common

http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/

[GoSolar]

18. dancing rabbit

Noticed you had a link from dancingrabbit.
I heard of them recently and was interested in knowing more about them.
I've seen their web site and it is cool that it is being linked to from DU.

[meganmonkey]

37. I actually just found them from a Google search

coincidentally - but it looked interesting to me too

:)

[noamnety]

8. It's a relatively easy conversion

If you start with a diesel engine, you can convert it by adding a second tank. You run on diesel or bio diesel until the car gets up to temperature, then switch to the other tank that runs on reclaimed veggie oil, which you can generally get for free from restaurants.

Most people that do it have a regular supplier - they just pull in behind the restaurant, load up the oil, take it home and filter it into a big barrel.

Here's an article from the Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0406/14/g01-177958.htm

[zanne]

3. Please Jane

Don't do us any favors--stay out of it!

[deutsey]

4. Agreed

[stevietheman]

10. Yeah, let's tell an American....

they shouldn't protest against this illegal war. Geez.

Yeah, Ms. Fonda has baggage, but she also has a voice that will be heard. And adding controversy to this issue will keep it in the news with the biggest of headlines. So what if the right wing will use this to paint everyone who is opposed to this war as "Jane's friends"? If they want to inflame liberals and the left, I see that as a good thing! More fire in our bellies can work wonders!

[grumpy old fart]

6. She cannot be that stupid. This is B.S. pure and simple.

I'm sure many have "encouraged" her, but it's just plain idiotic. Sounds more like some Rovian seed.....

[flordehinojos]

7. it was about time.

do it! all over again, yes ma'am! you go girl, jane fonda! and add a few big names to your anti-war bus tour ... names like
cynthia mckinney.
sheila jackson-lee
maxine waters
HOWARD DEAN
dennis kucinich
arundati roy

and any and all outspoken critics of the bush administration: former cabinet members ...

you go jane carry on with the real torch of freedom of speech, dissent

the questioning of a morally corrupt dictator--his equally morally corrupt father, mother, and brothers...

you go girl... i send forth my energy in support of your bus tour!!!

[Toucano]

9. I know a lot of Vietnam vets who love Jane.

Maybe you just know the wrong Vietnam vets.

[trumad]

12. Oh..ya wanna take a poll......?

Please.... Just because she's a lib doens't mean we have to stick our heads in the sand.

[Toucano]

13. My head is not in the sand.

I'm proud of Jane Fonda's opposition to that war and her opposition to this war. All the people I've met who hate Jane Fonda are exclusively irrational, hypocritical morans. I'm no longer concerned with the sensitivities of irrational, hypocritical morans.

If Jane does a tour, I'll be in the front row cheering her on.

Take a poll if you want. You simply said you know one thing, and I pointed out that I know something different.

Let the pissing begin!

[KC_25]

14. As a vet...

Protest is a right that I defended, and Mrs. Fonda has every right to protest whatever she wants.

Done to the gut, personal level, I simply can not stand the woman, she took protest to a whole new level. She cavorted with the enemy of the United States of America in a time of war. She took a publicity photo of her manning an AA gun that had most likely shot at American Aviators. That is simply unforgivable in my book. There may be vets that like her, or simply do not dis like her, and I certainly wish her no ill will, but the vast majority of Vietnam Vets, or American Veterans in General, that I know...do not like the woman or what she did. There is no amount of apologizing on her part that will earn her forgiveness in the eyes of veterans.
If you think that they are nothing more than irrational morons because they dislike that she manned and took photos in an enemy gun emplacement, you lack understanding, at best, of most American Combat Veterans.

[Toucano]

16. Nothing in the world is unforgivable

Refusal to forgive someone who has expressed continued contrition for an offense is irrational. It only serves to continue to harm the person who can't forgive.

It's hypocritical because we have all had horrible lapses of judgement that require others to forgive us. Most of us are fortunate that cameras and microphones aren't there to capture and preserve our mistakes.

The administration was lying to the American people. Jane proved it. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Kissinger, McNamara, and Westmoreland never expressed an ounce of contrition for their offenses. Many of those who become rabid over the actions of Jane Fonda have been completely uncritical of the men who created the circumstances in the first place.

She never "manned" an enemy gun. She thoughtlessly sat in the seat. Someone took photos. That simply doesn't undo the enormous contribution she made to help bring the travesty to an end.

You certainly aren't a "moran", and don't fit the category of those I described earlier. I appreciate your sacrifice and service.

How you choose to regard Jane Fonda, however, is up to you.

[mitchtv]

21. save a spot for me, Toucano

this war is WRONG, the more people saying so the better. I didn't know permission was needed.It is time to engage the enemy in the streets.

[Hidden Stillness]

11. Fonda is a Brave Fighter, and She Was Right

Jane Fonda is one of the truly great people of the last 25 years--all except for the horrible, shameful posing on a vehicle with Viet Cong and treating the U.S. as the enemy episode. That was shocking and awful, but for Christ's sake, how long does she need to be pilloried for it (by male soldiers who--dare I say it--probably did worse things in Viet Nam; just like Kerry truthfully said). Remember, many veterans hated Maya Lin and tried to have her removed from the Washington Viet Nam War Memorial project, and her Wall of Names has ended up being the most visited site in Washington D.C., extremely moving. Just because males eternally hate women doesn't mean they are right, and Fonda has apologized many times for the offenses she did cause.

I remember her on an old Phil Donahue show around 1971, talking about the importance of the then newly-released Pentagon Papers, very respectfully explaining it to the audience. Now, with her new feminist modern Christianity, I expect an even deeper and more compassionate perspective from her, and I hope something along these lines does happen. People who bravely protest against wars that were wrong, (and support good, needed ones like World War II), need to be shown to have been right all along.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Jane Fonda is one of the true heroes of the Vietnam war.

And, I hope that she lines up a lot of other celebs and some brave politicians to join her on the tour.

I met a lot of vets in the protests during the war, and they expressed nothing but admiration and support for Jane.

[trumad]

17. true heroes of the Vietnam war?

You fucking people are craked.... A hero for sitting with the enemy?

[gatorboy]

20. Agreed.

Regardless of her good intentions, the last thing we need is Jane hogging up the news with this.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. You're right. Let's all keep our mouths shut and go along with Bush.

It might upset Rush and the other ChickenHawks that somebody opposes killing people for nothing.

[mitchtv]

30. sure there might be a white woman missing

somewhere

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Maybe YOUR enemy. Not mine.

And, what made the Vietnamese your enemy? A lot of us came to the conclusion that Vietnamese people weren't our enemy.

That subversive thought came to me on a marine crotch rifle range in October, 1964. And, in 1965, when they asked me to extend my enlistment so that I could go and kill peasants in Vietnam, I told them where they could put their re-up papers and why.

I had friends, whose names are on a wall in DC who weren't so lucky to get out before they made extensions mandatory.

Jane Fonda should be damned proud of serving her country by trying to get it out of that misbegotten slaughter.

[mitchtv]

26. the enemy? they weren't my enemy

the Bombing was a war crime remember that

[LSK]

34. tell me, why are they the enemy???

What THREAT TO AMERICA did they pose?????

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

50. Whose enemy? The Vietnam War was based on lies too, and the enemies

were the men that lied about it.

Edited for grammar.

[Connie_Corleone]

19. This has gotta be a joke.

Many people can't stand her for what she did during the Vietnam war. It's okay for her to be against the Iraq war, but she still has the awful stigma of Hanoi Jane.

[mitchtv]

24. those people who hate her

supported the war. Tough shit on them. We are not in the position to decide who demonstrates against it. I'm sure she'll get more converts than angry old republicans who already LOVE the chimp. Swiftboat vets ride again.

[Connie_Corleone]

27. You're wrong.

Not everyone who can't stand what she did supported the war, and they aren't all angry old republicans.

[mitchtv]

29. seems to me if you're against the war

You take all the help you can get. I am more offended by Westmoreland's lies and the rest of the lieing liars the ran the war. Mai lai dwarfs anything Jane may have done

[ArkDem]

45. lieing liars????

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. A "stigma" given her by the right wing.

That all too many supposed "progressives" have swallowed.

[mitchtv]

28. you'd think they supported what

our military was doing. The VietNamese were never My enemy. except maybe the Reigime in the South. A Catholic post French oligarchy, trying to prevent a free election, that would've been won by National Hero, Ho Chi Minh.

[KC_25]

31. As I said...

She has every right in the world to protest. She can scream from her bus all that she wants to...

But many, many veterans, Repud, and Dems alike cannot stand the woman.
My uncle is a Vietnam Vet, he was drafted, and he is was against the war... he thought that it was none of our business to have been there.
However, once he was there, he was committed to bringing himself and as many as buddies home alive as possible. See, once you are involved, the folks at the other end of your rifle, have rifles that you are at the other end of.
She went to the folks that had rifles pointed at American troops, posed for pictures laughing and giggling with NVA troops at an AA gun that very well could have killed American aviators.
My uncle is Democrat, as is most of my family, and he thinks that she is one of biggest POS to walk the Earth.
I too, am a veteran, and let me tell you, if a celebrity came out against the war in Iraq, I would stand behind him/her... However, if that same person went to Iraq and posed with the insurgents with a bomb vest laughing and smiling... what do you think that my response would be. What she did is called aiding and abetting the enemy, there were/are plenty of ways to protest the war without taking the side of the people that are killing American Service men and women...not to mention the "re-education" of the people that occurred when the South (corrupt as it was) fell. Not all viet people feel that Ho Chi Minh was a hero, or liberator... (Now to the irony of the situation which deserves it's own thread..Minh was a big fan of the US and thought that the US would help Indochina after WWII... ah well.

[mitchtv]

35. Oddly enough Castro thought we would help Cuba too

aid and abet implies that they are our enemy. It was a war of national liberation , and we were on the wrong side. As we are in Iraq.

[gatorboy]

38. Maybe her book sales are slow?

She can protest the war. Just as long as it doesn't turn into a book promotion tour with copies of "My Life So Far" hunkered in the back of the bus for easy purchase.
Considering the war has been going on and that she just recently published a new book...I find the new urge for protest...Convenient.

[KC_25]

39. I see...

So we were on the wrong side of the war..OK, I can buy that argument.
But, in fact you admit that there was a war, where American servicemen were getting killed by the NVA.
The same NVA, that she posed with, laughing and smiling. In a piece of equipment that may have very well been the cause of death for American Aviators.

Remember, just because we shouldn't have been there, doesnt automatically make the NVA the good guys. Just keep that in mind.

[mitchtv]

42. doesn't make them the bad guys either

it was, after all their country, all of it. SVN was an aberration conceived by the french to stop the election of Ho.We were supporting, as usual , a gang of muderous thugs,God knows what we were doing in Laos,we certainly destabilized Cambodia.

[KC_25]

47. Yeah...

The regime of the North proved their legitimacy post haste didn't they?

I said that we shouldn't have been there to begin with, bu the fact remains that we were. 58,000 Americans died there, to the forces that wore the same uniform as the ones that she posed with.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Castro was the favorite "enemy" when I joined up.

The "Why we fight" lectures we got in boot camp were all about Fidel being a dirty commie with a (gasp!) beard and how we should be just frothing to shoot Cubans.

It was my first inkling that I might be required to fight on the wrong side.

[trumad]

36. Exactly!

Perfectly said.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. "The enemy" again. What made them "the enemy"?

And, how dare "the enemy" shoot at our pilots and bombardiers that were blowing up "enemy" schools, hospitals, and everything else they could without regard to civilian casualties...er, "collateral damage".

[KC_25]

46. Tsk Tsk..

Um... hate to be the one to break it to you...
but if the US in vietnam really wanted to destroy the north (which they didnt they wanted a status quo, which is another reason to have been against the war) they would have leveled Hanoi. There would not have been phaselines that couldnt have been crossed, there would not have been "no engagement areas", and the politicians certainly would not have cherry picked targets and tried for the "Peace with Honor" crap...
The fact of the matter is, those pilots and bombradiers were servicemen following orders from their supieror officers. To say that the North didn't have the right to fight back and defend themselves would be silly. But to say that they were not the enemy of the Servicemen and Women of the United States Armed Forces is absolutely insane.

I do not like that we are in Iraq,at all, but that in no way shape or form would give legitamacy to ANYONE that would go to, stand with, and pose for pictures with the people that are blowing themselves, Iraqi citizens and American Soldiers to bits... would you?
She went to, provided publicity for, people who were fighting American soldiers...
So, if Toby Keith had been against the removal Mislovec, and posed for pictures with an AA battery of his regime, it should be forgiven?
No, I don't think so.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. You're equating the NVA with suicide bombers in Iraq?

The reason LBJ and Nixon didn't level Hanoi isn't because they wanted the status quo, it's because they were terrified of the possible consequences. i.e., the Soviet Union or China entering the war and the repercussions that the anti-war movement would have brought to bear here and around the world.

Most of us in the anti-war movement were accused of "giving aid and comfort" to "the enemy". Some were imprisoned for doing so by resisting the draft or refusing to "follow orders". The same is being done today.

LBJ and Bush made the same horrendous mistake. They both felt that their show of strength against "the enemy" would be a cakewalk and they would reap the benefits of being "tough", on "Communism" in Vietnam, and "tough" on "terrorism" in Iraq.

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy.” - Gandhi

[KC_25]

49. Ummm...Nope...

Um they did want the status quo, which is why that they were afraid that the soviets or china would get involved in the war.
Kennedy, or LBJ could have brought large scale escalation of targets WITHOUT the negative anti-war protests here at home, if they had done it early on.
"it's because they were terrified of the possible consequences. i.e., the Soviet Union or China entering the war"

In other words...They didnt escalate because they wanted the status quo.


NVA or suicide bombers...Both are/were doing their level best to kill American servicemen/women.

[deutsey]

41. That's pretty much how I feel

What gets me is that she sat in that anti-aircraft gun, not that she opposed the war.

[Deja Q]

32. How can she kiss up to * and still say the Iraq War is wrong?

The Iraq war is one of *'s highlights.

I'm confused.

[LSK]

33. when did she kiss up to * ?

[Taverner]

44. If she can rally Anti-war Christians to the cause

Then it will be a good thing