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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:13 AM
Original message
The upside of losing Roe!
I'm probably going to get flamed for saying there is an upside to this, but there is. For one thing it will be the end of public compacency on the matter.

For another thing, Bush has selected a true stealth candidate, which makes him a done deal. His wife was head of Feminists for Life, but that won't be enough to keep him off the courts. All the democrats have is nitpicking issues like the fact that he says he doesn't remember being a member of the federalist society. Crossposted from http://dameocrat.blogspot.com Dameocrat Blog

"Roberts has burnished his legal image carefully. When news organizations have reported his membership in the society, he or others speaking on his behalf have sought corrections. Last week, the White House told news organizations that had reported his membership in the group that he had no memory of belonging. The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, USA Today and the Associated Press printed corrections.

Over the weekend, The Post obtained a copy of the Federalist Society Lawyers' Division Leadership Directory, 1997-1998. It lists Roberts, then a partner at the law firm Hogan & Hartson, as a member of the steering committee of the organization's Washington chapter and includes his firm's address and telephone number.

Yesterday, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Roberts 'has no recollection of being a member of the Federalist Society, or its steering committee.' Roberts has acknowledged taking part in some Federalist Society activities, Perino said."


Ok, yeah, uh huh!

Anyway, I am of the mind that Roe is a goner, and that isn't entirely a bad thing. As http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/ Eric Alterman points out!

Anyway, the Roberts nomination seems to mean we should plan on saying goodbye to thirty-two years of life under "Roe," which is not entirely a bad thing, even for pro-choice advocates. After all, Bush did terrific with unmarried women without college educations. It would be helpful, politically (and democratically) for them to learn just what it was they were voting for. There's a much longer argument to be made here, about how judicially-created and enforced liberalism has weakened its cause and alienated its potential supporters while not gaining terribly much in real world terms. (I'm told much the same can be said for "Brown v. Board--at least the "with all deliberate speed" part of it too, but I've not yet read up on that argument, and it's not nearly so germane.) The implications go far beyond that obviously. Roberts is only 50 and Bush is likely to get two more nominees. We may not recognize the Constitution when he's done. In the meantime, I'll stick to what I know, will cover the nomination fight if something extraordinary happens. If not, there's plenty to keep us all

There is nothing you can do to stop a frieght train, and that is what the Bush administration is. The damage done may lead to important reforms in the end! Particularly if it ends public complacency. I know many people who vote for Republicans based on the notion that the courts will protect them from the religious right. It isn't just working class women who don't have time to read newspapers, as Alterman would lead us to believe. It is also upper middle class married women. The so-called security moms. That will officially end once Roe is overturned.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Roberts on the court will weaken, but not overturn Roe
And that, after all, is the real goal here.
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tubbacheez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. While everything you say is possible...
... and depending on one's interpretation, perhaps even probable...


I'd still prefer to:

- assume nothing
- keep up the pressure for what's right
- keep inspiring others to help us
- look for opportunities



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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. That is defense which is always a depressing game
We are losers so we have to play offence.
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tubbacheez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Hardly.
I didn't say to keep doing the exact same things on a tactical (or even a strategic level). To clarify, we always should stick to our principles and doctrines.


Talk to a martial arts instructor sometime (say, an aikido or jujitsu practitioner). Offense and defense are not always obvious.

In the face of stronger power, skill becomes more important. In the face of stronger skill, power becomes more important.




And by "look for opportunies", I didn't mean "wait" for opportunities. In the ever-changing dynamic of mass conflict, the opportunities always come and go. To make them useful, we must see them when they appear. This is done by skillful looking.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. Now if we could just roll back civil rights for blacks
we'd get their votes, too. :sarcasm:
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Tommymac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. If Roe goes a lot of our Privacy goes too...
It's about more than abortion....the Patriot Act is stripping away our day to day privacy....repealing Roe will strip away our medical privacy.

No, we must fight this guy. Tooth and nail. The time for Chamberlain style appeasement is past. Time to be Churchillian and kick some ass.

I don't care if the fight is hopeless...it MUST be fought. We have to draw the line in the sand somewhere...:kick:
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. Another, long-term upside to overturning Roe
In twenty years, we'll have more Democrats eligible to vote because fewer kids will be aborted. A baby boom eventually favors liberals because these kids, when they come of age en masse, historically favored the overthrow of repressive regimes.

Look what happened in Rumania when Ceaucescu outlawed abortion. There was a massive baby boom, and when that generation of kids came of age, they banded together to mobilize the masses to overthrow Old Nick and send him to an early grave. This is we can do with Repukes in about 20 years: get rid of the criminals once and for all.
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OrlandoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. Losing Roe would make the Democratic party ten times stronger.
...And it would eliminate the Fundies' rallying call. I don't want it to happen, but politically it would work out well.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. There is no upside
Women will die -- oh, and btw -- the fetuses along with them.

If Roe is overturned, and only one woman dies, it's not worth it. If you want lives to be bargaining chips for political gamesmanship, start with your own.

This fight was fought and won over the bodies of butchered women. The upper middle class and the wealthy will have access to safe abortions as they've always done when abortion was illegal. No deal. Sorry.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. It isn't my fault
I didn't vote for Bush.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. That has nothing to do with throwing women off the lifeboat
No sale here.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I am not throwing women off the life boat
That was already done, when the public voted for Bush.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. Here Here n/t
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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. "There is nothing you can do to stop a frieght train"
I take it you've never seen a derailment? :)

Welcome to DU, Stray Roots! :hi:
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I've seen plenty of derailments
I grew up in a rail road town. The upside is they make the public good an mad. Bush was elected, with a majority congress, and a compliant dlc wing, so we have to be realistic.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. I agree
Overturning Roe would be the greatest thing for the Democrats, thats why this guy probably wont have the balls to do it when he gets on the Court
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. Look what happened when Democrats talked of
the upside of going to war with Iraq. I still haven't seen the upside yet. Things have only gotten worse and I haven't seen the backlash against the Republican party yet. The same damn thing will happen if Roe is overturned.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. The public opposes the war now
so their is an upside to the Iraq war. The other upside is the having gotten himself in a mess in Iraq, he will now have to beg the UN for help to get out of it, so it strengthens internationalism ultimately. The other upside is that he is too bogged down to over throw the populist movement in Latin America that is being led by Hugo Chavez.
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Who cares if they oppose it now
when there is no large movement in the US opposing it yet? Bush is still supported, over 1,700 US troops have died and we're now in a quagmire.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. People don't have to be on the streets to oppose it
They just have to vote against war mongers at election time. If their were a protest movement Bush would demonize it and run against it like he did this time and like Nixon did in 1968.
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. When we've got Diebold giving away election
I'm not relying on elections.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Then what in the fuck are you relying on
armed revolution?
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. I do see a middle ground behind
armed revolution and armchair revolutionary. I'm not gonna sit around relying on elections alone while my rights are widdled away.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Then what will you rely on
Bush's conscience?
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. The press and the voting machines are so compromised
I can't believe people actually believe this strategy has any value whatsoever. Even the a majority of the freeps think abortion should be legal.

The only battles we've won with these guys is when Dems stood by the core values of the Dem party. Reproductive choice is non-negotiable IMHO.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Nobodies saying they should abandon choice
you are creating strawmen. Nobody offered a strategy either. Anyway, in light of the fact that you don't think things can change at the ballot box, what is your strategy?
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. You're advocating sacrificing lives in exchange for votes
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 12:14 PM by Mandate My Ass
Demand that he answer how he would vote on Roe and refuse to confirm him unless he says he will support it. Scream bloody murder. Republicans use this strategy all the time and it works for them.

There were so-called progressive here advocating we throw our children into the Iraq meat grinder to erode Bush support. I'll say to you what I said to them, I'm not obliged to offer an alternative solution because I don't support in your ill-conceived one.

Schiavo backfired on them, Social Security reform backfired on them because public support wasn't there and the Dems spoke out about it. It seems quite obvious, no compromise is a winning strategy when public support is behind you.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Where am I advocating sacrificing lives in exchange for votes?
I dont' have a problem with demanding he answer that question or voting against him if he won't. Go bitch at congress. I am not one of them. I am a peon with no control over what they do.
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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
53. The public opposing it now
does not bring back the thousands upon thousands of dead. Or our national reputation.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. How is this my fault?
?
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Exactly
Look at the lives lost, and for what? Public support for the war is at an all time low and yet Bush is not suffering the consequences. Likewise, if choice is overturned he will skate free.

Bring the troops home NOW! Keep abortion legal. This will save lives.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. He won't suffer any political consequences until
2006, but he will suffer political concequences.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. He's a lame duck. He doesn't care about 2006 or 2008
He cares about packing the courts with zealots. If we throw women to the wolves and Dems win in a landslide, lives will be lost. Keep abortion legal. Women's lives for votes is not a fair exchange.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I am not responsible for electing or selecting Bush
so I don't understand who your arguing with. When it is overtunred are you going to commit suicide or create a practical strategy?
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. I will neither commit suicide, nor will I throw women to the butchers
as you are suggesting. No thanks.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Where did I suggest anyone throw women to the butcher?
?
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
20. It's always you straight white guys talking like Martha Stewart.
"It's a good thing if Roe gets overturned." "It's a good thing Defense of Marriage Acts happen." "It's a good thing if Affirmative Action is killed."

I don't think it will be overturned immediately. They've been chipping away at abortion for 30 years and it will only continue.

I'd just like to know why so many of you liberal men are so selfish you only talk about this as if it is a chess game. Stratergy and all. Well, guess what? This is real people's lives. Real women being forced into the bondage of BEING PREGNANT AND GIVING BIRTH AGAINST THEIR WILL.

I notice you guys get all up in arms if they tax your porn. Is that really more important than women having the right to an abortion?
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I am a women. I am not in favor of overturning Roe
I have just accepted the probability of it happening since Bush got elected. Did you even bother reading my post?
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Okay, sorry, if you really are a woman.
What kind of strategy is that you're talking about when women lose something they fought long and hard for?

Would you also say it's a good thing if the decided to take away women's right to vote? Would that wake up the people?
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. It isn't a strategy
I think we lost. So I am planning for the game after the loss. We can oppose Bush's stealth nominees just because Bush appointed them, but we won't win because we are the minority party.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. So what kind of political party is that?
Hey, I'm an Independent who has NEVER voted repuke. But I am totally losing faith in ALL Democrats who continually say "we lost this one, I just know it, so let's not make a fuss."

Do you not think it is the Democrats responsibility to fight all of this crap they throw at us? They should not question a man who has only been a judge for two freaking years and will appointed to THE HIGHEST COURT and possibly serve for 40 years?

Why do you take it so lightly?

I used to think a myriad of things would wake up the sleeping Americans to the political shit hole we have been in for years. But guess what? They buy the soap they are sold by the corporate media and hate radio. And if they don't even hear a peep from the other side - guess what? They'll continue buying the soap, even if it kills them.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. The beltway dems suck
I don't take it lightly. I am just planning for the worst.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. No, you are making light of the issue. Recall your OP?
Upside to Roe being overturned? You may not be affected by it personally, as I may not. Those with money and those in the liberal areas of America are jest fine.

Guess what? I don't base my politics only upon my selfish needs and whether or not something affects me personally. I base them upon what is right for ALL people.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. You dont' make any sense
.I am in favor of Roe, but I believe it will be overturned no matter what, because Bush was elected. I think you are being kind of childish actually.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Your meter has expired now.
Ta ta.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
67. I'll stand with you on this Ripey
The right of a woman to chose is a line in the sand, that won't be crossed.

Millions of men like me will proudly stand with you on this one.

I notice you guys get all up in arms if they tax your porn. Is that really more important than women having the right to an abortion?

It's not an either/or situation...
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. Overturning Roe -v- Wade would be a human rights catastrophe.
EVERY freaking woman in the nation should be outraged at the notion, and certainly every woman that calls herself a progressive needs to be out in the streets and in the trenches talking about the fact that when abortion is illegal WOMEN DIE.

There IS no "up-side" to this mess, and putting any kind of spin on it is just wrong. Dems have GOT to stand up now or else face a much deserved civil war in the party.

Eric Alterman can kiss my entire ass.


Laura
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Alterman is not responsible for Bush getting elected
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 11:53 AM by Stray Roots
nor is he saying we shouldn't fight off antiroe judges. He is just realistically preparing for the probability Roe will be overturned. So am I. Bush is throwing stealth judges at us, so we can't call them antiroe!

The other upside is that pro-choice activist will start to hate the dlc as much as antipoverty and labor activist do.
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. Start to dislike the DLC?
Bwa-haaa! I was at THAT party a long time ago--like when NAFTA was in the news. This is just one more nail in that particular coffin.


To e honest, my argument is that we accomplish NOTHING by laying down and letting it pass unremarked. Do I honestly think that we have enough votes to block confirmation? Probably not. What we DO have, however, is the power to make enough noise that the NEXT appointment might not be such a heinous rat-bastard in sheep's clothing.
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Stirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
25. The rhetoric will simply change from "end abortion" to
"don't let them bring abortion back".

It won't take away their wedge issue. The Fundamentalists are insane.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. Bingo! We have a winner!
I guess I like your post so much because that's what I've been trying to convince the "they'll never overturn Roe" crowd of.

You must know quite a few fundies as well, since these people wouldn't vote for a Dem named Jesus H. Christ at this point. Our party has been so demonized among the religious right that they wouldn't vote for us even if abortion was made illegal, since we're also the party of (insert another moral "failing" here). And yet our dear "leaders" keep trying to win their votes. :eyes:

Just the fear of The Return of Roe will keep the fundies in the repub party, and I hate to see so many people assume that the repubs won't do it because they need their wedge issue. Especially since the fundies are also running out of patience with the repubs, as they've been in complete power for more than 2 years now without anything happening to make abortion illegal. The repubs know they owe them and have to do it, but they'll be able to keep the fundies in line out of fear (which is what works best on those people anyway).
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Stirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. Yep. I think you're right.
Fundamentalist Christians are simply unreachable.

They approach politics like they approach religion: there is good (Republican) and there is bad (Democrat). This is their "truth" and anything that counters it will be considered a test of faith.

Arguments and logic are irrelevant. Worse than irrelevant, in fact. They're tools of Satan.

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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
31. concession and capitulation
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 11:57 AM by noiretblu
is exactly how we got to this point because that is not a winning strategy.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. I didn't concede or capitulate ot anything
I am just looking at the probabilities.
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Stirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. I think you make a good point.
That removing the issue from the debate would take away one of the Republican's "carrots on a stick". Personally, I think the population in question- the fundamentalist population- is just too insane to react rationally. I think they could be just as motivated by the *specter* of abortion.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. They would be, trust me
I unfortunately live and work amongst these people, and I know full well that merely the fear of The Return of Roe (as I've taken to calling it) would be enough to keep them in line and voting repub. Those people do not care about economic issues, often know that they are voting against their economic self-interest, and actually get some strange sort of martyrdom out of thinking that they are sacrificing self so that the little babies can live.

Even the loss of reproductive rights doesn't bring those people back to or to the Dem party.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. i wasn't talking about you
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 12:08 PM by noiretblu
i was talking about the democratic party's amazingly consistent failing strategy.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. Welcome to DU
enjoy your stay.

There is no upside to overturning Roe.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
37. That makes NO sense to me.
That's like saying you need new brakes on your car so you don't get in an accident, but the upside of getting in an accident is you might get new brakes. By then it's too late.

We need women's votes to keep Roe; losing Roe to get women's votes is no bargain.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Nobody said we should abandon Roe
We lost the election. So Roe will likely be overturned whether we support it or not.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. We need to shout from the rooftops about it.
The idea that there's an "upside" breeds complacency, imho.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Maybe Bush will listen?
If he doesn't it isn't my fault.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. Please don't be defensive.
The point is, I don't see any "upside." There will be huge battles to face if it goes back to the states. I wouldn't want people to think, "Well let it go, so we can get more women's votes."

They're asking for a divisive conflict because it's that fight -- more than the victory -- that plays to their base. But I think we need to fight it at every level, from the USSC down to the states, as loudly as possible.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. And if she types "it's not my fault" one more stinking time
I'm gonna explode.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. It's not my fault!
be my guest!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. It is a bit repetitive
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. S/He's a "women"
I guess us lemmings should just fall into line. :eyes:
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
69. You lost me at "The upside of losing Roe!"
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 01:45 PM by Misunderestimator
I for one, am not willing to sacrifice the LIVES and RIGHTS of my fellow American women because it might be GOOD for the MINORITY of women who voted for Bush to "learn just what it was they were voting for."

What an incredibly LAME argument. Let's install a judge who will risk some men's rights then. Our party should capitulate on something that affects MEN.... THEY are the ones who voted in the majority for Bush.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
71. Locking...
This is inflammatory.


DU Moderator
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