Christians face jail for giving treats to children of Muslims

[emad]

Christians face jail for giving treats to children of Muslims
By Nick Meo in Jakarta



THREE Indonesian housewives face up to five years in prison for allegedly trying to lure Muslim children into Christianity at a Sunday School “Happy Week”.

Senior Christian figures claim that the prosecution is politically motivated and part of a campaign of persecution by Islamic fundamentalists against Indonesia’s Christian minority — about 8 per cent of the Muslim-majority population.



The three women faced threats from a yelling mob of 150 fundamentalists during a court appearance in West Java last week. It is claimed that the women were teaching lessons in reading and writing to mixed classes of Christian and Muslim children, taking them on trips to parks and swimming pools, and rewarding them with treats such as pencils for memorising Christian prayers and Bible verses. Many of the alleged offences took place at a special Happy Week earlier this year, although the lessons began in 2003.

A claim of “Christianisation” was made against the women by a chapter of the Indonesian Council of Muslim Clerics, which alleged that they enticed Muslim children to participate and that they had tried to convert the children to Christianity by giving them gifts.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1707254,00.html

[GoddessOfGuinness]

1. Sometimes I wish we had laws like that here.

One of the drawbacks of free speech is that extremists on both ends of the sacred to profane spectrum never seem to want to just shut up.

[arwalden]

4. Thanks For Being The First To Say That!!

I completely agree with you.

[Monkie]

5. i had great fun discussing the crusade on iraq with a couple of those

extremists that came to my door not to long ago :D
is it evil for a atheist to preach jesus and condemn the crusades and heap scorn on the pharisees in biblical terms just to freak the sh*t out of them? ;)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

12. As I recall

Jesus was always wreaking havoc on people's notions about different races and religions, a woman's place, etc.

These people need to understand that it's not the magic; it's the message. Good for you for telling it like it is! :yourock:

[TahitiNut]

9. In this case, it's an abuse of delegated (parental) authority.

It's not at all necessary to limit 'free speech' any further since it doesn't give anyone the 'right' to proselytize children whose parents specifically prohibit such actions. Islamic law has historically prohibited proselytization - of any kind, including Islamic. Christians in Islamic countries are protected by those same laws - no Muslim teacher would be immune from punishment for attempting to proselytize a Christian child.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

13. Someone needs to point this out to the Foulwell types...

You can be sure we'll never hear about Muslims being arrested for proselytizing.

[NashVegas]

11. That's Not Free Speech

This is bribery.

If these people had real faith in their religion, they wouldn't need to bribe, blackmail, or lure in any fashion to bring others into it.

And the crazy thing is, kids have built in bullshit detectors, making these bribes pretty useless.

I was once "saved" with the help of a McDonalds cheeseburger.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

14. LOL

St Ronald McDonald...

[Democracy White]

2. Christianization sometimes go a bit far

I am sorry to say that what these women have done would be compared to what pedophiles do. They used certain positive reinforcements for the children's participation in something that certainly would go against their upbrining. Children are the most naive and impressionable of humn beings and are easily persuaded. To me I would consider this a type of "mind rape" or "spirit rape" The children only knew Islam and were comfortable with it, but the Christian women, in their overzealousness in converting everyone to the Christian doctrines weren't right in this attempt of conversion, they weren't just volunteering reading and writing, they knew what they were doing and I find it wrong to attempt to convert unless the children's parents wanted to.

That's why I hate missionaries with their self-percieved notion that they are on a "war" against pagan and infidels and that the "ignorant" should be saved by the grace of Jesus Christ.
(not God, but Jesus, I have noticed in the churches that I have visited most of the worship is centered on Jesus and not on the Divine being that is known as God.)

My two cents. I may be wrong but that I how I feel.

Dee

[GoddessOfGuinness]

8. Interesting analogy...

How many of these missionaries would tell their kids never to take candy from strangers, I wonder?

What if we declared war on their ignorance? Suddenly we'd be "anti-christian".

[Caution]

3. I wonder what would happen if I started espousing the virtues of

Satanism in a classroom here? Or started teaching sex education for example?

I may not agree with the laws of Indonesia as it pertains to religious freedom, but this article will be used as just another example of "persecution of Christians" by the religious-right when it fact these three women broke the law in the country they are in and most likely did it knowingly. Part and parcel to civil disobedience is the willingness to go to jail for your actions.

[arwalden]

6. Oh Dear... You're Right. This Is "Proof" Of The "Persecuted Xian".

:eyes: I wonder how much mileage they can get out of it.

[VegasWolf]

7. Well, the Xians know that if they don't act now, then no Muslim or

Jew can get into heaven because they don't believe in Jesus.

</sarcasm>

[KansDem]

10. I've been to Sunday School...

I would not describe it as a "Happy Week." ;(

[VegasWolf]

15. If that had been me as a child, I would have taken the candy, said the

silly prayers and laughed all the way home.

[Ratty]

16. If you can't do the time ...

...charged under Indonesia’s criminal law with using lies, deception or enticement to change a child’s religion.

This isn't the US. We have laws concerning freedom of religious expression, we have a democracy, we have the constitution. Other countries have their own laws and constitutions. It amuses me when missionaries are prosecuted and thrown in jail for distributing bibles or evangelizing in countries where that is against the law. It amuses me when they whine about it, as if they were still in the US and the whole world should have the same laws we do. They travelled to that country, they should know the laws, they should render unto Caesar and all that. If they choose to disobey the law for personal moral reasons, well okay, go to town, but be willing to accept personal responsibility for it. Be a martyr for god's sake, but spare us the Wah Wah Wah.

[QC]

17. "as if they were still in the US...They travelled to that country.... "

The women in question are Indonesian. It's amazing what one can find out by clicking the links in thread headers!

[brentspeak]

18. Glad to see people here support this outrageous persecution

Needless to say, (and I shouldn't even have to point this out) but this is not one of those cases here in the U.S. where Christian Coalition-types are screaming "persecution"; this is a REAL-life persecution of human beings simply for proselytizing. (That is, assuming they are even guilty of doing that).

You may not like proselytizing - I myself wouldn't proselytize - but only the most ridiculously knee-jerk left-winger so beloved and exhibited like zoo animals by the Sean Hannity-types could possibly approve of anyone imprisoned for something like this.

This thread is Exhibit #1 why so many Democrats visit these boards and then just as quickly depart from them.

[NashVegas]

19. This Is About More Than Proselytizing

Okay, a potential 5 years jail sentence? A bit much.

If you study the history of colonialism, you'll have noticed that all inroads started with the Christianization of a "savage" people.

[podnoi]

20. Yes, 5 years in jail for is ok if it is a Christian

No, people on the left are not inconsistant in their application of principle?

[megatherium]

21. You are exactly correct!! Thank you! nt