Who created the ‘evil ideology’

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayArticle.asp?col=§ion=comment&xfile=data/comment/2005/July/comment_July24.xml

DEAR readers, it will be educative to find out who created the monster of terrorism that Tony Blair and others calls the "evil ideology", in the aftermath of the July 7 incidents in London.

In this respect, I had raised a question in this column, some time ago, which is that, why had the CIA and the Americans not rounded up their so-called agents in Afghanistan when they accomplished the task of driving out Russians, and put them into some reformation centers with a view to enabling them de-learn the skills they had acquired as fighters against the Russia?

At that time, the West was not calling the fighting as part of an "evil ideology", because the fight was against Communists. So, whatever these men did were hailed as acts against occupation of their land, and for freeing their country from foreign hands. Those who died in the fighting were called "martyrs", who laid down their lives for a good cause.

But, those who underwent training as fighters for a few years cannot all of a sudden become normal human beings, when the war was over, and it was the duty of those who sponsored these mujahedeens to put them in a normal mode by giving them psychological counseling. But, sadly, this had not happened, and these men were left in their camps unattended. No body told them what they were doing was wrong, because those killings suited their sponsors' purpose. And, what they knew was fighting, and only fighting.

They therefore continued to find virtue in what the West now shuns as "evil ideology". In due course of time, they spread out to other areas and regions, and continued creating the same mayhem that they had got training for in Afghanistan. This "evil ideology", thus, is the making of the CIA, whereas Muslims, as a religion, has had no role in it.

[Maraya1969]

1. And who created the "War on Terror"? It fucking marketing!

[Macadian]

2. I think you are confusing ideology...

... with strategy.

Much to the shame of the US, our CIA did indeed teach military methods to the Afghans.

However, fundamentalist Muslim's are responsible for the 'evil ideology'.


The Islamists terrorists have often and frequently declared that their goal is the establishment of a worldwide ‘caliphate’ founded on Shari’a law.

Islamist terrorists openly declare this goal. Anwar el-Sadat's assasins proclaimed “The caliphate or death.” A

Bin Laden spoke of ensuring that “the pious Caliphate will start from Afghanistan.”

Bin Laden's chief deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, spoke of re-establishing the caliphate.

Al-Qaeda leader Fazlur Rehman Khalil wrote in a magazine that America's defeat would be followed by the creation of a caliphate.

The killer of Dutch filmaker Theo van Gogh, Mohammed Bouyeri, attached a not to Gogh's body stating that, “Islam will be victorious through the blood of martyrs who spread its light in every dark corner of this earth.” He further stated in court that, “I did what I did purely out of my beliefs. I want you to know that I acted out of conviction and not that I took his life because he was Dutch or because I was Moroccan and felt insulted.”

So it is fair to say that this violence is due to the 'evil ideology' of fundamentalist Islamists.

[ArkDem]

3. But don't you agree that if we would just provide them with

counseling this mistrust would gradually go away?

[Macadian]

7. You might want to repeat your post.

But don't you agree that if we would just provide them with this mistrust would gradually go away?

You sentence didn't make sense to me. Sorry.

[ArkDem]

13. Thanks for the assist...!

[Kalish]

5. yeah they do what the return of the 'caliphate'

which would extend into Europe, like that's ever going to happen.

[MisterP]

6. actually, there was a study that showed that well over 90% of suicide

bombings and other acts of terrorism were politicial and anti-occupational (perceived occupation, at least) more than religious--though fundamentalism can play a significant role in planning and carrying it out, as with the über-Wahabbi bin Laden or Zarqawi the Undying: the near-Marxist Palestinian groups are unlikely to be devotees of the Saud family rather than the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka--from whom they adopted the explosive vest during or after the war in Lebanon

[Macadian]

9. I'd be curious to know how....

... such a survey is conducted.

Obviously you can't talk to the suicide bomber. Do you talk to his family? Do you talk to his accomplice's?

Everybody has an agenda that could easily skew the results. The family needs to believe that their kin was not evil and has not shamed the family.

How does a pollster get close enough to truly get an unbiased result?

Kind of reminds me of a favorite saying, "63% of all statistics are made up."

[MisterP]

15. not a poll: a study of sucide bombings from the late 70s on

maybe someone can dredge more up, I have to type with my littler fingers since I pinched a nerve in my writing hand

[Kalish]

4. The CIA and the West didn't make the ideology

it was there already, they just aided it in the struggle against the Soviets.

[K-W]

8. Every culture contains or has contained violent ideology.

So the question is not where violent ideology came from, violent ideology can be found anywhere, the issue is why it is such a popular ideology today. And the answer to that question lies in the history of conflict and violence the region.

In places full of violence, people tend to have violent ideologies. Suprise suprise.

[Kalish]

10. ok

but to say we 'made it' is to vastly oversimplify the whole enchilada.

[K-W]

11. No, we did in fact make the Mujahadeen as we know it.

We turned it from a bunch of religions extremists into a well trained, well funded organization able to recruit throughout the muslim world.

We were every bit as responsible for what that organization became as the people in it.

[Kalish]

12. we did not do that

Bin Laden is very intelligent (albeit so totally wrong) and he had his own vast stockpiles of money. you vastly overestimate the reach of the CIA in that part of the world.

[K-W]

16. Actually, we very much did do that.

And at the time it seemed a very smart move. You got more troops to bleed the Russians and helped our regimes in the region rid themselves of religious agitators.

The US played an integral role in the creation of the Jihad movement as we know it. Which isnt to say the movement wouldnt have existed and advanced without us, it certainly may have, but we had our hands all over this movement during a very important part of its development.

[NNN0LHI]

17. You need to read this

US: Choose allies carefully

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0925/p9s1-coop.html

TUCSON, ARIZ. - In the discussion about Osama bin Laden, a key point is often omitted: that Mr. bin Laden began his career as a US ally. Indeed, he has followed in the tradition of Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein - unsavory leaders who began as America's "friends," and later became archenemies.

Bin Laden's military career began with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. Bin Laden, a Saudi exile, moved to the Afghan frontier to join the guerrillas, or mujahideen. During this time, the US launched a vast effort to support the guerrillas. This effort, carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency in cooperation with Pakistani intelligence, was the largest operation in CIA history, involving billions of dollars of weapons, training, and other support.

The mujahideen had great publicity; after all, they were fighting communism. But their image concealed an exceptional brutality by key leaders. Gulbaddin Hekmatyar, a mujahideen leader and recipient of US aid, began his political career as a student who threw acid in the faces of women who did not wear veils. Several guerrilla leaders participated in the international heroin trade, and Afghanistan became a major source of heroin entering the United States.

The US continued aiding the mujahideen, even though the Reagan administration had declared war on drugs. US officials believed that winning the cold war outweighed concerns about human rights and narcotics.

One of our Afghan allies was bin Laden. Accounts differ on whether bin Laden had direct ties to the Central Intelligence Agency.

But there is little doubt that many men in bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist organization received CIA arms, training, or other support, either directly or through the CIA's intermediary in Pakistan. Al Qaeda has US-supplied weapons, including Stinger missiles. At least one Al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan - which was targeted during the 1998 US cruise missile attack - was constructed with CIA assistance.

[Kalish]

14. delete

wrong thread