Does God want you to be rich and buy a really, really, big boat?

[kid a]

Larry King asked some rich evangelist if he felt guilty building his 10,000 sq. ft. mansion when there are so many homeless, sick, and hungry people in the US and world - especially since the money he is using to build the fortress comes from the church.

"Jesus wants you to prosper and reap the rewards of your blessed heart"

No problem - add the sport package to that Hummer, too, jack.

[dogday]

1. Jesus said spend thy money like it was water

or something like that.

[theHandpuppet]

47. This is what Jesus said

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. "

-- from the Sermon on the Mount

[Lisa]

54. you mean, give it to people who are thirsty? (n/t)

[lavenderdiva]

2. who was the evangelist? n/t

[kid a]

6. john osteen

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. I think it's Joel

[lavenderdiva]

22. this is Joel Osteen...

his father was John Osteen, also a pretty well-known evangelist.

[kid a]

24. sorry joel - you still won't get my money though

[Obamarama]

51. This guy looks just like a Martin Short character....

I could easily see Martin Short doing a schtick of this McPreacher.

[Bluzmann57]

3. Well thats the answer

Instead of busting my tail so others can get rich, and trying to start my own scrap hauling/lawn care business, maybe I should be a televangelist. Then I could see all kinds of tax free money rolling in and buy the boat, fast cars, and etc. I've always wanted. Hallelujiah! I have seen the light. Donate to the church of the eternal party and ye shall be rewarded! Oh wait, I mean I will be rewarded.

[pitohui]

4. if he does he sure has a funny way of showing it

please lord, test me, let me win the lottery and i'll prove that i'll still be humble

i'll only buy the big boat if you really insist

[KittyWampus]

43. That's Not What Ostein Says. Not Even Close. And He Does A Lot Of

good work with his proceeds.

It's called a ministry.

[atre]

50. I suggest you study up more on the prosperity gospel he preaches

He's successful because he tells people what they want to hear: there's no moral problem in living in gross excess.

[pitohui]

56. study up on the gospels instead

jesus says clearly in matthew that the rich man has as much a chance of getting into heaven as the camel getting through a needle's eye -- that is to say, zero

no room for wriggle there

jesus did not preach for profit

the prosperity gospel hoaxers are hell-bound on the bullet train

[getmeouttahere]

5. These people can fu** themselves!!!

To me, these people are degenerates...it's one thing to be austentatious and superficial, but to say that Jesus says to be that way...

[SoCalDem]

32. Televangelists prey on uneducated, lonely people

who think their "afterlife" will be better if the "tithe" now..

My mother-in-law who lived on $300 SS and what we sent her, sent money to about 7 of those greedy pigs.She lived in a tiny apartment and had no "extra" money.

These are lonely people who fixate on the "lovely Christian family aspect of these snake-oil salesmen, and the 'faithful" willingly send the money.,..

The only tax exepmtions for religion should be for the physical property ..the church the school..

EVERYTHING ELSE SHOULD BE TAXED..AND HEAVILY.

[shadowknows69]

7. King actually asked a pressing question?

that in itself I think is a sign of the apocalypse.

[barbaraann]

8. Satan wants you to buy an old wooden boat.

:evilgrin:

[jmm]

9. More proof you can thump the Bible without reading it

It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God

And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peace-makers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

edited because I accidentally posted it before I was done

[AuntieM1957]

11. That's the new testament

this new group are most definitely OLD TESTAMENT Christians.

"Forget what JESUS said, LET'S FIND THE GET RICH QUICK PLANS"

Try pointing out to one of them that the 10 commandments are Jewish law - and watch up twitch outta that one.

[Enraged_Ape]

15. "Old Testament Christians"?!

That's the biggest oxymoron of the millennium, and a PERFECT way to describe them.

[Nevernose]

16. And the Book of Acts, and about 100 other places in the NT

4:34-36
And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Neither was there any among them that lacked:
for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
And laid them down at the apostles' feet:
and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. 36

2:43-47
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

[TahitiNut]

10. Huge needles and tiny camels cost a LOT of money.

:dunce:

[Just Me]

13. LMAO

:rofl:

[texanwitch]

17. Couldn't have said it better.

:applause:

The golden needles cost a lot of money.

[Lisa]

55. you said it ...

(the 31' needle sculpture in NYC's fashion district)




http://www.fashioncenter.com/kiosk.html

[Enraged_Ape]

12. "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

A certain ruler asked him.

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"

"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.

Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."

Luke 18:18-29.

-----------------------

Jesus is direct and plain, as he always was. I wish, just once, these guys would listen to him for a change.

[Lindacooks]

14. That pig is so creepy.

And Jesus would denounce him as a Pharisee and money-changer.

[barb162]

19. I saw this guy on TV...he has that gargantuan church down in TX

right? Oooh, is he ever slick with getting the money

[LibbyJane]

29. Yeah, that's the church that's so big...

that they have to hold services in the old Astrodome. Wonder if they have vendors walking up and down the aisle selling "Jesus is #1" foam fingers?

[barb162]

34. Bwa. That church didn't look like a church. It reminded me more

of a sports stadium in layout.

[AuntieM1957]

49. It is a sports stadium

they bought the old Summit/Compaq Center -

the former home of the Houston Rockets.

[barb162]

53. oh, hahahaha

[newyawker99]

39. Hi LibbyJane!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LibbyJane]

40. Awww, thanks! :)

[lumpy]

20. Member of Christ's brokerage house

Just another phony get-rich hippocrite.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. You can bet he wouldn't let that long haired commie from Gallilee on it.

You know that one that gave up a good job (actually it was a pretty lousy job - historically speaking) to wander around and stir up the po' folk and dis the fatcats.

[Dragonfli]

23. To a Calvinist....

...It would be even better! You see they think that their wealth-"blessings" are directly related to a "thumbs up" from God.

(it's not that he "wants us" to be wealthy - but rather "he blesses us" with wealth if we are pious enough pricks to please Him.)

They also believe that the poor among us are gettin' the lords thumbs down so they "must be" no good worthless scum.

Once you understand that sort of mindset you are able to see why they hate the poor so much while groveling before the wealthy.

These modern fundy repug types seem to have incorporated a lot of that sort of theology into their McChurches.

[DanCa]

25. Noah had a really big boat

Dont know if he was rich

[Dragonfli]

28. No, just smart - long term no-money down loan from a bank in the valley

O8)

[DanCa]

31. Welcome to DU Dragonfli

[Dragonfli]

35. Thanks for the welcome!

I came here for the knowledge, I stayed here for the company.

A great bunch of people post here, I like most of them,
that is very unusual for me.

[DanCa]

37. Same here

This is the best place on the web.

[lavenderdiva]

26. Texas Monthly August 2005 has Joel Osteen & his ministry as its cover

its a great article.

link:

http://www.texasmonthly.com/mag/issues/2005-08-01/feature.php

access code: HOUSTON


I live in Houston, and have visited Lakewood Church many times. I find his message to consistently be uplifting, inspiring and positive. He never asks for money either in church nor on his television programs, unlike other televangelists who only use the TV program as a premise to get money. I haven't been to Lakewood's new location, formerly the Compaq Center. Its pretty big and to my mind, overwhelming. The traffic around there is incredible on Saturdays (they have an evening service) and Sundays. Mr. Osteen also refuses to align himself in any way politically (right or left), and refuses to support any political candidates, to his credit, IMHO. He has a multi-cultural audience, unlike many televangelists who just preach to a predominately white congregation. He does live in a very nice neighborhood, but he will tell you that he and his wife purchased that property many years ago for $380K, and have since renovated. He drives his late father's car, used one. He no longer takes a salary from the church.

I hope I don't get flamed in this discussion, but I do enjoy hearing Joel Osteen and his message....

on edit: I did see the Larry King interview, and thought he came across as naive to some of the questions Larry was asking, but at the same time, sincere.

[PA Democrat]

27. Oh, YES! Especially if it means bilking little old ladies out of their

Social Security checks! Reminds me of "Supply Side Jesus".






http://www.beliefnet.com/story/132/story_13245_1.html

[MindPilot]

30. "never trust anyone with perfect hair"

that's my moto.

[knitter4democracy]

45. *snort* That's too funny and true!

I went to Mount Vernon Nazarene College, and our president had perfect hair. He was obsessed with it--always combing it over and over again after a teeny breeze, practically worshipping it. Anyway, it bothered me more and more the longer I was there, so when he handed me my diploma at graduation, I mussed up his hair. You should've seen his shock! He couldn't move. The president of the board came up and helped him brush it back into place, and I was crying, I was laughing so hard. :evilgrin:

He was mad at me, but his sister came up when he was about to rip into me afterwards outside, took his arm, told him to calm down, and publically thanked me for doing what she'd been wanting to do for years. I got many thanks that day, especially from people who had to go to meetings with him all the time.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

33. just another whited sepulchre

and look at the wifey.

so very humble before the lord

i just realized who this guy reminds me of. that dude William J McCorkle, the scam artist that said "i'll buy properties you find for me" who's now doing 24 years in the federal pen (despite using F. Lee Bailey as a lawyer) for bilking retirees out of their cash. Was McCorkle a Florida-regional thing or does anybody else remember him. I'm trying to find a pic of him, he was a true classic scam-artist.

[texanwitch]

36. We have several mega-churches in the Houston area.

All they are are mega shows for the sheep, shows for the brainwashed and the braindead. The guy in the picture has his show on TV, for a bigger group of sheep.

[Hardrada]

38. One factor in the extinction of Passenger Pigeons

Is that they could not thrive or breed unless they were in a flight of millions of other similar pigeons. So maybe these huge churches are not really a sign of a robust healthy faith after all. Not healthy to have to always flock together like that. Just a little excursion into sociobiology.

[KittyWampus]

41. Joel Ostein Is One Of The Good Guys. He Has A Positive Message

and all the DU'ers spouting bile are showing their lack of understanding and bigotry towards those who care about their spiritual growth.

Being poor doesn't make anyone more holy or blessed and neither is being rich.

Material rewards aren't what Joel's about.

His message is too simplistic for me, but I've heard him speak and he's sending out positive energy.

[Tommymac]

46. Well, if he was a true man of faith, he would

live a fairly spartan life, lead by example not just words.

Sorry, I lived in the South for a long time... and in my area we had a word for people like him...sumpjumpers.

The thing about good con men is they do seem sincere, and positive, and good...but they sell you something you can usually get for free, and seem to neglect telling you this small, unimportant fact...

[texanwitch]

52. Down the street from me is a little church maybe 50 people attend.

I have talked to some of the people from the church and they seem fine people, and they do help in the neighborhood. We have several older people who cannot cut the grass in their yard or really afford to pay someone, so the church members cut the grass for them.

The people in the church ask for nothing in return, just doing a good deed. Funny that the people worship in a little, woodframe church, nothing fancy. Joel is a actor just like his father, he does put on a good show, you should see the look on the faces of his followers.

[slackmaster]

42. If I thought so I sure as hell wouldn't be an atheist

:nuke:

[knitter4democracy]

44. It's called prosperity theology, and it's heresy to most of us.

Prosperity theology is a horrible heresy raging through many churches these days, especially mega-churches full of people really in need of faith, healing, and help.

It's pretty simple: they believe that, if you're a really good Christian, God will shower blessings (mostly consisting of money) down upon you. They pray that Jabez Prayer for those worldly blessings, and they believe in flaunting their wealth as proof of their faith.

Of course, the theology falls apart when you look at it much at all, especially when you consider that Jesus didn't even have His own donkey to ride into Jerusalem on but had to borrow one. :eyes: They also tend to deny church history, making all sorts of convoluted arguments about how there wasn't a real church until quite recently and all.

What bothers me the most about it is that it really leads people astray and can damage their faith. I know many who have left the faith entirely after an experience in a church like that. They really think God doesn't love them when they aren't rich and rolling in worldly blessings and then try to figure out why. It's horrible. That's not what the faith is about.

[dogday]

48. Joel Olsteen is all about the positive

He really has a positive message. He does not ever preach hellfire and damnation. He preaches a positive approach to life with faith on your side.

His father founded the church originally and preached until his death. This church was composed of mostly poor white hispanic and black people. A good mixture, a good message. The church does alot and funds alot of programs. It has grown and has a good mixture of rich and poor black and white. That I like as well....

I say if the man has earned the money through his book sales and personal appearances, he is entitled to do what he wants. He is not ripping anyone off. He is the only one I can stand to listen to on TV.....