Is Supreme Court Nominee John G Roberts Opus Dei?

[LiviaOlivia]

Has this queston been answered? I haven't seen it.

Why not?

Opus Dei..you know the list. This is not representative of the U.S. and not representative of American Roman Catholics.

A question to Senator Reid (a man of faith): An overwhelming super-majority of citizens are not Opus Dei, yet that extreme religious cult already has two representatives sitting on our country's highest court. Why do we need more?

[redqueen]

1. That's an excellent question, LO. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

2. Perhaps we should look for any connection to Scalia?

[H5N1]

5. Oafus Dei is funny.

[spanone]

9. Swamp Rat Strikes Again!!! LOL

[ClintonTyree]

3. He sure fits the profile.........

a rabid Catholic whose allegiances probably lie with the Church more than the U.S. Government. You're 100% correct, it wouldn't surprise me a bit and it's a question that needs to be answered.

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

6. "vows of celibacy" ...Could this be why he adopted???

I didn't know a thing about Opus Dei, but when I visited http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/dei.html (and http://www.americamagazine.org/articles/martin-opusdei.cfm), the celibacy thing jumped out at me.

[Ilsa]

27. They are saying the adoptions are because of his wife's

age and i suppose his as well. But celibacy is an interesting thought. I wonder if his wife minds it?

[CBHagman]

36. Oh, calm down, people! Opus Dei doesn't equal celibacy.

For starters, all we know is that Roberts and his wife are practicing Catholics and that they adopted two children. Full stop. That's it. Neither of those two practices indicate that they are involved with Opus Dei. I know plenty of people who go to mass every week and don't have biological children. Believe me, we're not all in Opus Dei.

But even if the Robertses are somehow connected with Opus Dei (as supernumeraries, who are permitted to marry, rather than as associates or numeraries), there's no reason to speculate about the children. They wouldn't be the first couple to adopt rather than have biological children.

This explains some of the details of Opus Dei:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei

By the way, I have had some contact with Opus Dei members (through a previous job), and I did meet some of the married supernumeraries. One even brought her little baby with her. Yep, kiddies are allowed, as long as you're married. :-)

That said, I had no interest in involvement in Opus Dei and was amused when they had no interest in me, either! I guess they knew I was one of those liberal Catholics.

[CatholicEdHead]

4. He could be, I have no confirmation yet

and the media would like to bring that to light if it is true in the month they have to dig before the hearings.

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. Reid is a Mormon...are THEY not "an extreme religious cult"?

Come on, they baptise dead people. Utah is close to being a theocracy, in many places.

Reid is also anti-choice, and seems to think Johnny-boy Roberts is a swell fellow. Maybe you should find another Democrat to direct your question to?

[ThomWV]

8. What's Wrong With That - Facts Please

I see more bullshit about that orginization than any normal person can immagine. Can you tell me what is so bad about them and maybe trying citing some facts?

[DanCa]

10. Dan's Brown's novel

Da Vinchi (sp) code has made them and the free mason's out to be the bad guys - just fyi.

[rinsd]

15. You have to do better than a work of fiction (nt)

[LiviaOlivia]

11. While I compile some info for you

Can you please tell me of a Democrat, leftist and/or progressive that is Opus Dei?

[DURHAM D]

13. Or a mentally or emotionally healthy female. eom

[ThomWV]

14. It Would Not Suprise Me To Learn

That John Kerry was.

Go to their website and see what they are really all about. Although I think the religion itself is a crock it doesn't meant that this orginizaiton is inherently evil. From everything factural I can find out about them all they are is a group who devotes good acts (and full lifetimes) to doing good 'in the name of Jesus" and trying to excell for that reason. Whats wrong with that?

[DURHAM D]

18. The fact that Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Louis Freeh and Richard

Hanson are all members (of the same chapter) should be a red flag just for starters. No way on John Kerry. Do you think women should serve their masters ? Are you okay with the self inflicted pain aspect of their faith ?

[ThomWV]

20. Show Me

I have read every word on their website and I find no mention of women having to be subservent to men. Once again, show me some fact.

[DURHAM D]

21. Read post number 19 - note in particular the next to the last # ...

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. How come they build a separate entrance

that the women have to use to enter their fancy headquarters in NYC?

Personally, I have a problem with any group, especially such a powerful one, that supposedly follows Jesus but is exclusive and membership is by invitation only.

I also have a problem with anyone who thinks physically injuring yourself on a regular basis is a good idea.

[deadparrot]

30. The flip side...

http://www.odan.org/

There's probably elements of truth on each side, but this is the other guy's story.

Take it from a lapsed Catholic who is close aquaintances with two members of Opus Dei.

[MelissaB]

26. I had no idea. All opus dei?

[DURHAM D]

39. I read it in a bio/book about Hansen. What a sick dude.

Louis Freeh as well - remember his passion to chase down every sexual rumor about Clinton even though Clinton appointed him. He worked closely with crazy Dan Burton in the House (the congressman who shot a watermelon in his basement to prove Foster did not commit suicide) and his assistant Dave Bossie (sp ?) also equally nutty. Wonder if either Dan or Dave are opus dei members.

[DemBones DemBones]

31. Show me proof that all of those people are members of

Opus Dei. Saying they are doesn't make it so and I've never seen any evidence for this oft-repeated allegation.

John Kerry is in Skull & Bones, which is a weirdly pseudo-pagan gang. Opus Dei may be too esoteric for most Catholics but it is approved by the Vatican. Any Catholic who has the time and inclination to attend Mass daily and pray regularly might join Opus Dei or a similar Catholic group.

[MelissaB]

35. kicking for an answer

[CBHagman]

37. Don't forget secular Franciscans et al.

I guess the laity is more involved in general since Vatican II, and a good many practicing Catholics can go through their lives without ever hearing about Third Order Franciscans and other groups, but you still have them around. There's nothing especially mysterious about them, though, and Dan Brown apparently hasn't written any novels about them. :-)

[DURHAM D]

40. See post #39. eom

[CatholicEdHead]

25. Highly doubtful for Kerry

as he usually attends Boston's Paulist Center, which is as open-minded as you can get it the Catholic Church. Opus Dei I would expect has lots of problems with the Paulist center.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/150/story_15043_3.html

http://www.paulist.org/boston/news/bulletins/thisweek.htm

Espically since the Paulist Center hosts these quite often:

"G/L/B/T Monthly Catholic Community Meeting
Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered Catholics will meet on Wed., July 20th from 5:30 to 7:00pm at Our Lady’s Chapel, St. Anthony’s Shrine (handicapped accessible). "

[blm]

34. Kerry is loathed by Opus Dei. He follows the liberal Catholic teachings...

the charitable and good works path, not unlike Dennis Kucinich, David Bonior and many others.

Did you forget that it was Opus Dei Catholics who tried to get the Pope to excommunicate Kerry?

And the new Pope wrote in favor of Kerry being denied communion back then, until Pope JP made him backtrack.

[LiviaOlivia]

19. What is Opus Dei?

Friday, 21 December, 2001, 02:32 GMT
What is Opus Dei?
By the BBC's Jan Repa

One of the figures amongst Pope John Paul II's latest list of candidates approved for canonisation is the Spanish founder of the controversial Catholic movement known as Opus Dei, Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer. Critics describe it as a sort of Catholic freemasonry - accusing it of being secretive and manipulative

Opus Dei - which means God's Work in Latin - was established in 1928 and has around 80,000 members in Europe, North and South America and elsewhere. Members are enjoined to promote the evangelising mission of the Catholic Church through their professional work. Membership is by invitation only. Critics describe it as a sort of Catholic freemasonry - accusing it of being secretive and manipulative.

~snip~

Father Escriva de Balaguer stood with Franco in the civil war Controversy also surrounds Opus Dei's founder, Father Escriva de Balaguer. Biographers have alleged various character flaws - including deviousness and social snobbery.

Personal failings have never been a bar to Christian sainthood. More problematical were his connections with the Franco dictatorship. Like most Spanish churchmen, Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer sided with the Nationalist uprising against the Spanish Republic in the 1930s. Thousands of priests were murdered by Republican militias and Escriva de Balaguer himself had to flee for his life.

He has also been quoted as saying that Hitler would save Christianity from Communism.

~snip~



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1722214.stm

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The inherent danger lies in the undemocratic structure of the Opus which totally reflects the Fascistic ideology in Escriva's teachings. People have to follow the orders given to them by their leaders without doubting them. Leaders have total control over the people subordinated to them through the weekly talk where they learn everything they need to manipulate followers. So, if the topmost leader decides to do something it will happen. They justify this structure with the excuse that it is all in God's name. But the people in the Opus are all humans and there is always a chance that they might make mistakes. In the dictatorship-like structure of the Opus a mistake or an evil decision by just one person on top of the organisation can have fatal consequences. Their response is something like: ``Oh well we have built a dictatorship, but do not be worried: we have such a nice dictator on top who is such a kind person with a good heart ...'' Besides: Escriva was not a person with a very good character. And a person who does not admit that he has made a mistake by putting this Fascistic ideology into his work, even after 1945, when the evil of the Fascistic ideology should have become obvious to everyone is definitely not a saint. Well at least, I think that God is NOT a skin head in camouflage and army boots, who likes Fascism.

# The Fascist ideology in Escriva's teachings. The fundamentalism.
# Intolerance towards other religions.
# The dishonesty.
# The danger inherent in the undemocratic structure of blindly following orders.
# The danger inherent in the psychological control they have of their members due to the "weekly chat" where they have to tell the innermost details of their souls to their spiritual leaders.
# The aggressive and manipulative way in which they try to catch new members.
# The evil character of the founder.
# The fact that they do not reveal their true goals and keep a lot of material secret from the public.
# The smug thinking of belonging to an elite.

# Liberty from oppressive government intervention in the daily lives of its citizens, from illicit searches and seizures, from enforced religious values, from intimidation and arrest for dissenters; and liberty to cast a vote in a system in which the majority ruled but the minority retained certain inalienable rights;
# Equality in the sense of civic equality, egalitarianism, the notion that while people differ, they all should stand equal in the eyes of the law;
# Fraternity in the sense of the brotherhood of mankind; that all women and men, the old and the young, the infirm and the healthy, the rich and the poor, share a spark of humanity that must be cherished on a level above that of the law, and that binds us all together in a manner that continuously re-affirms and celebrates life.

http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/opus.dei.uo.faq.html#bad

[iamtechus]

22. Whip me, beat me!

An interesting article about Opus Dei from the Chicago Tribune:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/opus/opus41.html

Rev. Marty Miller, chaplain at Lexington College, said Opus Dei's use of privation and pain reflects a sinner's need for physical penance. Because everyone falls into that category, members are expected to sleep on the floor or a board one night a week. The whip, he said, is called a "discipline," the leg binding is a "cilice."

"It hurts a bit, but I don't tighten it too much," Miller said. "It's said that our founder would draw it so tight, he drew blood."

Opus Dei's founder--and members always capitalize the title and speak of him with reverence--was a Spaniard who entered the priesthood on the eve of his homeland's civil war of the 1930s. Because the church was identified with the ruling class, many priests were killed, a fate Escriva narrowly escaped by going into hiding. When Gen. Francisco Franco won the war, Escriva allied his movement with Franco's authoritarian regime, with several Opus Dei members occupying key positions in his government. Opus Dei officials, however, currently downplay Escriva's actively supporting Franco.

Do you want them on your supreme court?

[BrotherBuzz]

23. Opus Dei officials, however, currently downplay....

Escriva's actively supporting Franco. It appears they are attempting to distance themselves from their members, too! LOL

"The Pope's spokesman, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, is a member (Opus Dei), but we would like to dispel once and for all the rumors that Louis Freeh, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Mel Gibson are members."

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/opusdei_factandfiction.htm

[BrotherBuzz]

12. He could be a member, only he can't remember joining...

:shrug:

[tanyev]

33. Selective Amnesia is a terrible disease.

Very contagious in high levels of power.

[carnie_sf]

16. Wouldn't surprise me

[TomClash]

17. I'd bet Anal Roberts is Opus Dei

He looks and acts like one. Most Catholics find them very creepy.

[LiviaOlivia]

24. kick

[kanrok]

28. More like "Opus Gay"

n/t

[ThomWV]

32. This is a Vanilla Flavored Shitball

Well, I've looked at all the drooling snot that has been presented once again and just like every other time I've looked at this there is not so much as a sliver of evidence that there is a single sinister thing about this bunch of devoted people. Its just another smear campaign against the Catholics. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind folks smearing Catholics, its just that this smear, like so many others, has no basis in fact.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. Ask all of the experts on Mel Gibson...they should know.