An open letter to progressive liberals

[whosinpower]

There are those that say us guys who sit on the left side in the realm of politics are "hurting" America because of our wacko ideals.

We can't seem to stay on track - trying to fix the whole world all at once.

There are those who say we should not compare Bush to Hitler.
We should not be anti-war.
We should not be pro Abortion.
We should not blame America.
We should not wish for peace.

WEll, if I wanted to talk like a republican, act like a republican, smell like a republican and sound like a republican - I WOULD VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!

The comparisons of Bush to Hitler were examples of how fascism works. Hitler was fascist. And so is Bush.
We have not had a war of self defense in the last 50 years. And any aggressive act of INVASION AND OCCUPATION should not be tolerated. Iraq had nothing in regards to militaristic strength. It had nothing to do with Al Quaeda. The military can't fix this one. They cannot defeat terrorism with tools of death. It NEVER worked for Israel in all the years of fighting terrorism - why would anyone think that it would work for the US????? IT DOES NOT WORK. A military answer is defeat. You've lost when you dropped the first bomb over innocent people.
The right to abortion is entrenched with women's rights and who controls your own body. I will fight for that til my dying breath proudly. The hideous days of backalley coathanger obscenities need not come back thank you very much.
And if America deserves to be blamed for ills of the world that she wrought upon it - then so be it. Why is the rest of the world supposed to be responsible for itself and to itself but America is immune? Why is it that the rest of the world is supposed to upholdthe UN Charter - but the US doesn't have to? Why is the rest of the world supposed to recognise the Geneva Conventions - but America doesn't have to? Let's face it - if the rest of the world was as aggressive militarily and economically as America - what a pickle would we be in.
We should not wish for peace??!!??

I am a wacko liberal who feels that things like freedom mean more than the right for corporations to take over other nations services, cultures and resources.
I am a wacko liberal who DOES wish for peace - damn straight!
I am a wacko liberal who thinks that society should work to the betterment of everyone - not just a privilaged few.
I am a wacko liberal who thinks that healthcare should be accessable to everyone REGARDLESS of their age, race, gender, religion or income.
I am a wacko liberal who believes that every vote should be counted and accounted for with a paper trail.
I am a wacko liberal who thinks that government is accountable to us - THE PEOPLE - and not the other way around.
I am a wacko liberal that thinks that government is in place for the betterment of WE THE PEOPLE - not we the corporations.

And if you don't like the fact that I may protest - go Cheney yourself.
And if you don't like the fact that I am pro Abortion - go Cheney yourself.
And if you don't like the fact that I am PRO PEACE - REALLY - PLEASE - Go Cheney yourself.

[iconoclastic cat]

1. I agree.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Hear Hear

[Democracy White]

3. Right on!!!

I don't want to live in a fascist world.

Dee

[Extend a Hand]

4. absolutely!

I agree with you 100%. I would rather see someone like that working to take back the repub party from the 'nazis' ;) than wanting to change our party.

[smiley_glad_hands]

5. Amen Brother (or sister).

Didn't know what to make of that post, had worked on a reply to only delete it. But you've summed it up pretty well.

[dogday]

6. Absofreakinglutely nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I am wishing for peace. Wishin, hoping, praying

[David Zephyr]

8. Kick!

:thumbsup:

[Tommymac]

9. Spot on.

Someone else here said this, but it will stick in my mind for a long time...

"How high can an eagle soar without a left wing?"

:patriot:

[PittLib]

47. Hey there Tommymac ...

Remember to keep this in mind as it pertains to our senate primary election. This why I won't be voting for Casey. :hi:

[Tommymac]

51. I never forget it....

I will listen to Pennachio's stance...and will really think about him in the coming months.

I need to research more on both candidates before I really make a decision; I will admit that my relatively uninformed support tilts towards Casey right now, but that could change. It is more out of an emotional desire to see Santorum gone.

But whatever way it goes, I will be supporting the Democratic candidate who emerges from our primaries with all my energy. I only hope we can keep the primary relatively clean on all sides...no need to give Santorum any extra ammunition.

[PittLib]

60. You should have come to ...

my house party last Sunday. Chuck will probably be back in early August. I'll keep you posted. ;)

[Tommymac]

63. Do that....

We were out of town last weekend...if we can come we will be glad to listen....

[marmar]

10. Amen.

A Democrat who sounds and acts like a Republican is going to lose to a real Republican every time. If I was running the show, the platform would be aggressively anti-war, pro-abortion rights, pro-addressing the root causes of terrorism and pro-gay rights, including marriage.
This administration is nothing but a military junta, but with a lot of money and weapons, and an severe addiction to war. They don't give a damn about the average American, even those Red State people who are losing everything but continue to support him.
In the end, progressive values are closer to "mainstream" than those of the extremist right.

:grr:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whosinpower]

14. And if your ideals are the same as the republicans

Then nothing changes does it????? But then - that is how the corporatists want it.

[Tommymac]

15. But we lost the last two cycles under the DLC

appeasers...the left wing has been silenced for too long.

[JDPriestly]

17. Actually,

the only national elections we won since 1968 are

1976 - Carter, a fluke in the aftermath of Watergate and

1992 and 1996 - Clinton, who won in '92 thanks to Perot and who was paralyzed by right-wing vitriol and who lost the congressional support he needed just two years into his first term.

2000 - We won the election, but lost the selection, and the centrists just laid down an paid dead totally losing the confidence of any halfway sane American who wants leadership that can stand up against wrongs.

That's an abysmal record. The disaffected voters who don't show up at the polls are nearly all potential Democrats. They are looking for inspiring, charismatic, honest candidates who care about them and who represents their interests. There has to be at least one Democrat who fits that bill. Where is he or she? Let's drop all our divisions and our allegiance to any potential candidate, start fresh and find that person.

[rateyes]

31. We need to find the next

FDR who has the mouth of Harry Truman.

[noiretextatique]

20. that's laughable

considering 2000 and 2002 and 2004.

[JanMichael]

21. You forgot the "sarc" tag.

Bwahahahaha!

[Old and In the Way]

22. Thanks for your concern.

No sale.

[Eloriel]

26. Not entirely sure I'm willing to

listen to someone named "Libertarian" anything giving advice about winning elections.

Not entirely sure I'm willing to listen to ANY argument that suggests the DLC knows how to win elections.

Not entirely sure I'm willing to listen to ANYone -- or group -- who considers me too liberal to be included in their party, and who thinks MY views -- which are hardly represented at ALL in politics these days -- are the source of all this party's problems. A very, VERY good argument to the contrary could be made, I'd say.

Not entirely sure I'm willing to listen to someone (again, named Libertarian something)_ who warns about us becoming a permanent minority party who doesn't seem to see that we already ARE a permanent minority party, thanks mostly to the DLC and all the other meek and non-oppositional members of this opposition party.

Not entirely sure I'm willing to listen to ANYbody who tells me bascially the exact same thing about how to run this party and our politics as the Republicans -- from their sense of wholehearted charity, I'm sure -- advise.

Not sure I'm willing to listen to anyone who doesn't quite get it that no voters will follow where no politicians lead.

Not entirely sure I'm willing to listen to you, but thanks for playing.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

29. I'd rather be in the minority and be right...

then be in the majority and be wrong. The OP was correct with, "We lost as soon as we dropped a bomb on innocent people." We lost the war, and we lost our moral authority.

[JDPriestly]

34. My views were never considered extreme left.

until Bush grabbed power. I still consider myself a moderate liberal. The definition of center has moved so far to the right that I would consider it immoral to identify myself with it. I haven't actually changed my political views in any other respect. We are not hijacking the party. The party has been hijacked by the extreme right wing.

[Burried News]

49. I feel the same.

"We are not hijacking the party. The party has been hijacked by the extreme right wing."

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. AMEN!!

Those other sites must be sort of boring these days - that would certainly explain the invasion we seem to be experiencing these days.

[ironman202]

13. yeah, what he said!!!

[carnie_sf]

16. yupper

we need more of us

[pitohui]

18. i'm with you

you can't trade away every ideal in a popularity contest, at some point you've got to take a stand

[Tommymac]

24. You should make this a thread.

Conviction in your beliefs...that's what people want to see in a leader...not someone who blows with the political winds.

Welcome to DU!
:hi:

[pitohui]

42. thanks!

:hi: backatcha

[CrispyQ]

19. I am a wacko liberal & proud of it!

I am a wacko liberal who feels that things like freedom mean more than the right for corporations to take over other nations services, cultures and resources.
I am a wacko liberal who DOES wish for peace - damn straight!
I am a wacko liberal who thinks that society should work to the betterment of everyone - not just a privilaged few.
I am a wacko liberal who thinks that healthcare should be accessable to everyone REGARDLESS of their age, race, gender, religion or income.
I am a wacko liberal who believes that every vote should be counted and accounted for with a paper trail.
I am a wacko liberal who thinks that government is accountable to us - THE PEOPLE - and not the other way around.
I am a wacko liberal that thinks that government is in place for the betterment of WE THE PEOPLE - not we the corporations.

Honestly, I don't understand what part of the above any moderate would have issues with.

[rateyes]

33. Bingo,

did you hear Hillary today asking that the left-wing and the DLC quit its infighting? I'm telling you, the more I look at her and listen to her these days--having once been a fan--the more I PRAY that she doesn't run. If the DEMS would energize their base---get people who think like liberals to actually go to the polls and VOTE, making sure, of course, there's a paper trail to follow---we'd never lose a damned election. There are more of us than there are of them----we just need some decent leadership, and all of us doing hard work.

[Talismom]

37. I'm with you rateyes, I used to be a supporter of hers and have become

progressively more dissillusioned with her as she shows more DLC tendencies and I become more convinced of the need to express our beliefs loud and clear!

[rateyes]

43. That makes at least 2 of us..

wanna bet there's a lot more?

[Talismom]

64. Especially after her recent performance with the DLC! n/t

[JDPriestly]

35. That used to be middle of the road politics.

There is nothing whacko liberal about any of it. We can't allow our party to get pushed further to the extreme right by the whacko Republican-lites.

[Dragonfli]

23. I Must Be A Whacko.....

:silly: Because I agree with everything you posted!:silly:

Including, but not limited to, the proclamation that if people don't like it -
They can most assuredly go cheney themselves!

[dalaigh lllama]

25. Hooah!

Funny, I've always considered myself a moderate, but since I agree 100% with everything you've said, I guess I'm one of them-thar wackos, too.

Long live the wacko liberals!

[Sparkman]

27. Ever wonder why conservatives look radical? And liberals look rational?

Because liberals are those who take the ruin caused by the RW personally. The RW has a conflict of interst and fears retribution, or at least fears looking hypocritical. A liberal says damn appearances, speak truth to power.
When power screws up, power covers up with those in their employ, the RW conservatives. just a thought

[Talismom]

38. One that I subscribe to wholeheartedly! Call me another WLP! n/t

[rateyes]

28. I, too am a member of the WLP...

The Wacko Liberal Party---If being wacko liberal is wrong, I don't wanna be right!

[Sparkman]

46. WLP er, barely trying to tolerate...oops.

[rateyes]

58. Huh? I thought I was agreeing with you, Sparkman..

did I miss something?

[Sparkman]

61. I'm with ya! I was attempting to imply, that many here r much left wing.

Barely a Dem. Barely able to tolerate the middle. that's all. sorry

[rateyes]

62. OK. I did miss something. My apologies as well.

[Individualist]

30. Excellent post.

:applause:

[Catholic Sensation]

32. *sigh*

There are those who say we should not compare Bush to Hitler.

You want to know why there are those who say we shouldn't compare Bush to Hitler? Maybe because there is only one Hitler, and his name happens to be Hitler. Maybe because people who had family victimized by the Nazis find this kind of thing disgusting. Maybe because there's absolutely no basis for comparison when looking at what Bush and Hitler have achieved.

Maybe it's all of these... actually I'd say definitely.

[JDPriestly]

36. My husband grew up in NAZI Germany.

He is an expert on German language and literature. He remembers how it was under Hitler. He thinks Bush is rather similar to Hitler in many respects --

the use of propaganda (excellent example in the news today in which an Iraqi citizen was quoted as saying exactly what Bush said a few days earlier),
the ridicule and isolation of dissenters,
the trampling on human rights,
favoritism toward corporations (fascism was the establishment of a corporate state, remember),
Bush's control of the media,
the rallies only supporters may attend,
the staging of events to suggest there is no valid opposition to Bush,
the refusal to answer troubling questions,
starting a war of aggression without just cause and in violation of international law,
justifying the trampling on human rights as necessary to ensure security,
totally excluding moderates who do not totally back the president from meaningful participation in his administration.

The list goes on and on. Picking on minorities (gays and non-Christians).

Where the analogy ends.
He hasn't completed co-opting the churches (Hitler pretty much took control and put dissident religious leaders in prison camps). But his faith based funding will enable him to do so. It will allow him to strengthen the churches he approves and weaken those he doesn't. Pretty soon, he or his successor will be able to control the influential churches by threatening to deprive them of the income that they will come to depend on.

Thus far, Bush hasn't placed ordinary dissenters like you and me in "detention." But, if he is allowed to continue to marginalize anyone who does not agree with him, and look at how he marginalizes any Congressman who defies him, people will protest and he will "detain" them. And when Bush gets so many dissenters in "detention" that he doesn't know what to do with them, we will be living in the modern version of Third Reich. That's the ultimate step. He already practiced this kind of an action with Muslim immigrants following 9/11. He is ready to go. All he needs is a trigger and a dissident reaction.

There are just so many similarities between Bush and Hitler, it isn't funny. Open your eyes. As my husband points out, Hitler did not start out at Nuremberg. It took him years to build the repressive state that Americans associate with Hitler. It will take the neo-cons longer here because we Americans have strong democratic traditions. But, rest assured, he can do it unless we stop him through peaceful means. One way to stop him is to be very honest about the fact that he is leading us straight to a totalitarian state. Already discussion in Congress is being limited to that which is favorable to Bush and his agenda. Bush refuses to give documents to members of Congress. These are blows against democracy and steps toward fascism. If you don't recognize it, you are living an illusion.

[Disturbed]

41. "We should not be pro Abortion"

I agree. We should be Pro-Choice. Never say or type Pro-Life, please. Anti-Choice is correct. Allowing the frame Pro-Life conjures up Anti-Life. Most of us are not Pro-Abortion. We are Pro-Choice and Freedom to live our lives without Govt. commanding us to follow an relgious doctrines. More Freedom from Government intrusion is what the Constitution and The Bill of Rights are about.

[rateyes]

44. Start this as a separate thread...

and it'll get my vote. "Hitler didn't start out at Nuremburg." What a quote! Scary!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Right! You don't fight fascism by becoming a "not as bad" fascist.

So goddam many Democratic Politicians and their "advisors" are terrified of even being called something as innocuous as a "liberal" that they'd rather break their jaws than just speak the plain, and obvious, truth.

Rather than point to the facts and say "the war in Iraq is a dismal failure", they fret about not being "tough on defense" and talk hopefully of a "failed insurgency" and a "successful election" while piously praising the inept military and calling for more troops.

Rather than call out Roberts as an anti-woman chauvinist, they shrug and say that "he's not as bad as we might have got".

Rather than seeking to find solutions to third world poverty, they rely on the time-tested failure of killing a few terrorists that poverty produces in thousands.

Rather than curb the predatory corporations they blame the workers in the other countries being exploited by those corporations.

And, the list goes miserably on. As we are told to "unite" and be silent lest we anger the right wing talk show hosts, or dare to upset "middle America" with the truth.

Like the preachers Tom Hill wrote a song about, they're promising us "Pie in the Sky" if we'll just go along and unite behind their "not as bad as" program of frog cooking.

Which is why I'll be voting issues not party or politicians hence forward.

[rateyes]

45. Thank you.

"unite and be silent"---not this WLP member. We need to LEAD, which means standing up and speaking up, even if we're the only ones doing it.

[Pepperbelly]

48. pro abortion?

I don't think I'll go that far.

[lady lib]

52. I don't think anyone is "pro abortion," but the majority of

U.S. citizens are pro abortion rights with some limits.

The question we should be raising is how do we keep abortion safe, legal and RARE? If the RW were really interested in reducing the rates of abortion, they wouldn't be interfering with access to contraception and sex education.

[wovenpaint]

53. I'm pro-choice

NOT pro abortion. I agree with you about being PRO active on sex education and the availability of contraceptives.

[lady lib]

59. There you go.

:thumbsup:

[Bride of Cthulhu]

50. Right on ! ! !

n/t

[Lindacooks]

54. YES! Thank you for saying that. I agree 100%.

[bloom]

55. I am a wacko liberal, too.

And those wacko corporatists push me more to the left everyday.

[niallmac]

56. Absolutely spot on. Regarding the correctness of Hitler references...

once I have a bag locked over my head would it be ok to compare Bush to Hitler? I don't want to be making comparisons too soon. History doesn't own Hitler. B'nai Brith taught me to always be on the lookout for the early sprouts of fascism. If it's a noxious weed I call it by it's
taxonomic group.
No more republican light. We either are proud of our values or we bend over.

[Greenbeard]

57. Amen

shout it from the rooftops