Is there a campaign to discourage straight talk about US fascism?

[ConsAreLiars]

I've been marginally employed recently and have had the pleasure of listening to a lot of progressive talk radio and spending more time on DU. It seems to me that a whole lot of callers and posters from the right (or self-styled "moderates") have been putting forth the argument that the Democrats or liberals would be more effective if they (we) would be less strident, stop calling names, tone it down, disassociate ourselves from and/or denounce controversial figures (Moore, Fonda, Churchill, McKinney, ...) and not make "extreme" claims about the threat to democracy in the US, like voting machine fraud or disenfranchisement, and NEVER mention PNAC.

A lot of prominent Democrats, and some nobodies here on DU, seem to be following that kind of guidance.

Now, I'm biased, so maybe there is less here that I see. My own belief is that the Democratic Party (and all of us on this planet) are doomed if they (we) fail to take a strong stand against corporatism and for the common good. I see corporate power and the common good as opposites.

But the sense I get is that there is a broad campaign underway. Not just a few "nice" people trying to say "Can't we just get along?" although some honest folk do get sucked up by that argument. I think the Public Relations Operatives and spinners have been given their instructions, and that those whose interests are best served by the consolidation of corporate hegemony are willful participants.

I'm not certain about the existence of such a campaign - I haven't seen any paychecks - but it seems like "they" would want to keep the most obvious facts about what is happening to us out of public awareness, and such a tactic seems quite consistent with that objective.

So, as an atheist, I'm looking for facts and alternative views.

[sojourner]

1. you make extremely good point.

have had similar thought niggling about in the dark recesses of my mind...

[dweller]

2. to answer your post

some may need a review before the test.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

dp

[vanboggie]

3. Agreed

Election fraud and the fascism that has followed should be the #1 topic of discussion. I'm tired of vacant stares and/or accusations of lunacy when I speak of such things. Few of our so-called leaders will talk about it either. And then it will always be.

[BillZBubb]

4. It is merely the reflexion of right wing projection.

The right wingers are endlessly using strident and insulting terms to describe liberals and liberal politicians. Even KKKarl Rove recently said we wanted to offer therapy to terrorists. They've got Coulter, Insanity, Limpballs, Savage and all the rest spewing hate 24/7. Has it hurt the Repugs at the polls even a little????

Like all weak minded people they project their own actions onto others. They can dish it out, but they cannot take it. They want us to unilaterally disarm while they continue to bash away.

We need to be MORE AGGRESSIVE IN OUR ATTACKS ON THE GROWING FASCISM.

[ConsAreLiars]

10. That is my view, but I think it goes beyond the psychopathology

of projection. I've seen/heard the very same "arguments" made both from blatent hatemongers who denounce "liberals" for stridency (Thom Hartmann had one on for an hour this AM) and from "well-wishers" offering help by saying that we would be more effective if we did not upset the "middle."

It is essentially the same message. I believe that unless we are able to speak truth to power we will lose, and deserve to. I hoped Kerry would do this, and I hoped that his failure to do do so early on was based on some sort of "timing" strategy, because he certainly knew everything he needed to know about the nature of that gang of criminals, but he never did, and he lost in an unfair and predictably manipulated contest because he never told the truth about the enemy.

(edit typo)

[Dhalgren]

5. You know, it isn't even open for debate, really.

Hannah Arendt is the accepted authority on the fascist brand of totalitarianism, just look at her definitions of fascism. Of course, the New Republicans aren't going to say, "Yes, we are fascists!" But that is what they are. Loyalty to the Leader, subversion of all standards and ethics in behavior to the maintenance of power, fear as THE tool for mass control, the mythologizing of history to benefit the Party and Our Great Leader, ruthless retaliation against any and all opponents or perceived threats, uniformity of thought and message, it just goes on and on. If anyone doubted the fascist nature of the New Republicanism, just look at the lock step smearing and threatening verbiage spewing from every Republican - not one voice raised in any kind of differing view. Even when former CIA officers begged and called-out for just one Republican to put country above party, all that was heard was a deafening silence.

No, the New Republican Party is a Fascist Party and the sooner we learn to deal with them as such the better it will be for whats left of our country, the world, our futures, and ourselves.

Sorry, I now relinquish the soapbox...

[Stirk]

11. Very true.

When I hear right-wingers of any stripe, whether they be talking heads on TV, or a neighbor at a barbeque, scoffing at words like fascism, it disturbs me. It's like somewhere in there, they know damn well what the Republicans have become, but they won't admit it.

They remind me of people I've known who had drug or alcohol problems and knew it. Yet when someone confronted them about it, they would either laugh and mock the person stating this obvious fact, or they'd get angry.

[Stirk]

14. *edit*- double post

[OrwellwasRight]

16. Don't get off the soapbox!! nt.

[dweller]

19. nominated

and most of all for your response.

dp

[ConsAreLiars]

23. Just right

and a "me too."

(and kudos for your nick's homage to the best work of fiction since Faulkner. You do Delaney proud.)

[Just Me]

6. Try,...distraction from betrayal and exploitation.

Drop the "fascism". Go for the throat: betrayal to exploit us, all of us.

[countmyvote4real]

7. kick

Oh, how I agree with the statements in this thread thus far.

[Gronk Groks]

8. Trouble is it is MORE than a Fascist Regime...

...it is also a criminal enterprise. They have stolen several elections and looted the national treasury.
They also have a problem with telling ANY truth, they spin just for spin's sake. Plus character assassination is just plain FUN for these people (blame Karl for those).
Fascism is just another way for this pResident to assert his "divine authority".O8)

And I use to be a moderate...:mad:

[wli]

13. the criminal enterprise aspect is also highly relevant

Bringing up the Enron, Halliburton, Coingate, embezzled funds in Iraq, etc. connections are all just as taboo as the fascism.

What's truly puzzling is precisely how comprehensive the effort to suppress the dissemination of this information has been. Michael Moore appears to be one of the very few voices in the wilderness of mass-distributed information. The very word "fascism" has yet to surface anywhere a large number of TV viewers, radio listeners, or anyone could hear it. Mutatis mutandis with respect to criminality.

One would expect a radio host or news anchor or someone to decide to scream about at least some of this at an inopportune moment at least once. At least.

[wli]

9. yes, it's the usual reich-wing spin machine in action

The notion is to get people used to being governed by surprise. If you've figured out what they're up to, you have to be discredited before you spread the word and everyone else is unsurprised. And once you see it coming, you can fight it, which is the last thing they want.

Of course, that is all opinion.

What is a fact is that fascism is exactly what is happening. It is extremely disturbing. And like the pictures at Abu Ghraib, disturbing things can't be allowed to be seen without risking the support of the constituency, the perception of legitimacy, and so on. So there is an incredibly powerful motive there to prevent ever allowing the true name for the phenomenon to ever be voiced in public. Of course, we can't connect it directly to any sort of plot, but collect a list of sources of this nonsense, see what else they've said, see where their money is coming from, and a larger circumstantial case emerges. The final step is then the tentative assumption that it's all coming straight out of the right-wing spin machine, tempered with the proviso that the case for the assertion is circumstantial.

[Redstone]

12. Well, of course there is. The RWers want us to "tone it down"

while they do all the things they accuse us of (stridency, name-calling, lying in the service of sensationalism, and so on).

You're not imagining things, and you're not biased. You're seeing things as they are.

Redstone

[OrwellwasRight]

17. But so do the DLCers, and that is what is killing the party.

If Rahm Emanuel and Hillary Clinton will not jump on board and call a spade a spade, and if they continue to spout the Bill Clinton "middle way," which is really corporation-friendly without the religious activism, and we let them run our party, then we're done (and I mean more done than we are today).

And don't think we can't win in 2006: if Tom DeLay had not cheated by redistricting Texas, we would have actually taken back some seats in the House (not the whole House, but we would have been +2 from the 108th Congress).

[Stirk]

15. I definitely think there's a conscious effort to defuse PNAC talk.

I've heard right-wing radio and television personalities scoff at the idea of the PNAC as a 'wild conspiracy theory', and outright claim it never existed.

[tnlefty]

18. Yes, and many liberals and/or progressives don't want to see it

or so it seems to me anyway. For an enlightening and frightening read google Gareth Jones who chronicled what it was like in Germany during the early 30's. If this link works it will take you to a rather intriguing page, but I recommend that you read more of his writings, http://colley.co.uk/garethjones/german_articles/under_hitler_1.htm

[ConsAreLiars]

20. Yes - the very near future if the conciliators continue to control the

Democratic Party. Anyone paying attention to the precarious state of the US economy and the impoverishment of the masses ("the masses" means you, me, our families and friends and everyone we know) will recognize this situation as the next stage, which is near at hand. If the Democratic Party leadership refuses to stand against this future, and we as active members of out communities fail to warn one another about what is happening, then this is the the future:

---quoted from that link---

SAVINGS MELT AWAY

Not only the working class, but the middle class was impoverished. In 1923 the savings of the whole country melted away in a few months, when the mark became of infinitesimal value. In 1923 one could buy for a £, millions of marks and later even billions. I remember traveling in that year from Saxony to South Poland, a distance of 350 miles. For 1,750,000 marks, which was equivalent to 1s. 10½d., I obtained a first-class ticket, and I paid the equivalent of fivepence for a five course meal on the train. This inflation a meant the disappearance of the savings of millions of families, and the, ruin of the middle class has been the most fertile breeding ground of the national revolution.

On the surface in Germany the streets still look prosperous. Men and women look well dressed, for the Germans have a pride of appearance and a regard for cleanliness which fill one with admiration. But beneath a spotless suit of clothes and a white collar there is often abject poverty crying out for retribution.

This poverty is one of the forces which has made Hitler the dictator of Germany.

---end of quote---

[AuntiBush]

21. This Liberal Sees It and It's Very Frigthening...

I can't thank you (all of you) for posting about this very issue. Have any of you noticed some of the postings lately? Very confusing and some of the responses are hard-nosed punches. Seems very odd to say the least.

KKKRove in overdrive. Might be the collegerepublicans (dot) org according to my firewall. Caught "Bush's Brains" tonight on Showtime. What irony to learn Rove was worked his way up the rank & file of this very group in TX. Most of those that had harsh warnings of him, and the authors were Republicans who's careers were ruined from his tactics.

I thank each and everyone of you for helping to keep things in prospective for those of us that can't quite put it into words.

[seabeyond]

22. i am a conservative. i have been posting tonight about this

your post is right on. i as a conservative, with liberal social beliefs see all that the repugs are doing that is destroying our country. i have been rootin for the dems to speak up loud and clear for a while. and now that they are doing it on many fronts, there is another group of dems that are saying stop.

what is that shit

i WANT the american people to know the truth. know what religion has become, walking away from their teaching, and jesus's word. that they are being manipulated in the ugliest of ways. i am watching family members, for first time in life, getting sucked up in the religious stuff, at the very worst time in religious history.

i have only seen dlc attack dean and dnc. i have not seen it the other way around. i sent letters to dlc members, better knock that shit off, solidarity.

i agree with your post, and let me conclude, i live conservative any, and this dlc stuff is bullshit

[seabeyond]

24. like clinton shrugging shoulders what repugs did to him

mccain shrugging shoulders what they did to him.

why the HELL do you think this administration thinks it can do whatever the f* it wants. because no one, no one holds them accountable. they lie cheat steal and everyone shrugs their shoulders and say, we ought to keep quiet.

NO

the american people have GOT to HEAR what this administration is getting away with and say, this is not ok, this is not acceptable. bushco's are continually pushing that line.

SOMEONE has to stop this shit. sorry hillary and her dls is to wussy, and soft on confronting abuses to do it.

this from a moderate, or more

[pocket]

25. Yes, there is

.

[snot]

26. We need a STRONG core not easily discounted who STAND UP

The Republicans are acting like bullies and psychopaths, because we've let them. For years, their conduct has brought them all gain, no pain. They have no reason to learn better, unless and until we stand up, tell it like it is, and impose accountability.

I say accountability because that includes a lot of things, to be dealt with in a lot of ways.

While I would certainly enjoy seeing a lot more prosecutions going on, the most important part, REALLY, is to GET THE PUBLIC UP TO SPEED ON THE TRUTH.

Meaning, not just who wrecked what and for what despicable reasons, but WHY some of the POLICIES we've been sold just don't work! E.g., WHY aggression against non-iminent threats is a bad idea, WHY more governmental regulation is necessary to prevent harmful monopolies not only of commercial resources but also of INFORMATION and the media that are supposed to disseminate it, WHY the separation of church and state is so impt., etc.

We MUST speak up, for 2 reasons: because bullies only view conciliation as an invitation to keep grabbing more, until they encounter firm resistance; and because it's only by speaking up that we can educate the rest of the public.

We OWE IT to EVERYONE to tell it like it is! I think we can and should do this with utter respect for everyone, but we should NEVER back off on asserting the material facts.

[glitch]

27. It's much more difficult to fight the nebulous - so they really don't want

you naming them.

Name them at every opportunity. New American Fascists is the best fit at this point in their development.