Thomas Jefferson was a great man

[Kalish]

Thomas Jefferson was a great thinker, a philisopher, and a scientists. He was an enlightenment thinker, a person of reason and science. He was a liberal in many, many ways. I wish Democrats would quote him and Madison and Franklin more than they do.

"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."

"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."

"Question with boldness even the existence of God."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive."

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter"

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

He has some quotes exalting the independence of a strong judiciary, and then he also has some quotes attacking the judiciary that tried to stop what he was doing as president. But the bottom line is, his values were very liberal for his time, and are still in many ways liberal even by today's standards.

[jeff30997]

1. Great quotes !

One of the smartest President ever(If not THE smartest).

[lvx35]

2. In many ways, America's original Democrat. A Good guy. nt

[Spiffarino]

3. My favorite President of all time

One of my favorite quotes of Jefferson's:

Happy for us that when we find our constitutions defective and insufficient to secure the happiness of our people, we can assemble with all the coolness of philosophers and set it to rights, while every other nation on earth must have recourse to arms to amend or to restore their constitutions.
--Thomas Jefferson to C. W. F. Dumas, 1787.

Some biographical info:

Religion: No formal affiliation
Education: Graduated from College of William and Mary (1762)
Occupation: Lawyer, planter
Political Party: Democratic-Republican
Other Government Positions:

* Member of Virginia House of Burgesses, 1769-74
* Member of Continental Congress, 1775-76
* Governor of Virginia, 1779-81
* Member of Continental Congress, 1783-85
* Minister to France, 1785-89
* Secretary of State, 1790-93 (under Washington)
* Vice President, 1797-1801 (under John Adams)

[mixedview]

4. Jefferson is one the most important individuals to have ever lived, IMO

He was a flawed man, but without him, one can argue that freedom as we know it would not exist.

[Spiffarino]

5. Most definitely flawed on issues of race

Brilliant as he was, he was a complete idiot when it came to differences between the races. He was afflicted with the short-sightedness that's common among aristocrats. Some of the things he wrote about black people were apallingly stupid and vain. In light of his long love affair with Sally Hemings, it becomes even more bizarre.

Putting any human being on a pedestal is foolish. We all have our flaws, and the great often have even greater ones.

[Kalish]

6. It should be noted he was opposed to slavery

He made some moves to abolish it, but withdrew them for fear of splitting the union.

[Spiffarino]

8. He was opposed to slavery in principle

He was one of the few liberal planters who believed in freeing the slaves. He also supported repatriating them to Africa rather than absorbing them into the American mainstream.

Here's a link to a long quote you might find interesting:

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/slavery.htm

You can plainly see that his views on blacks in general were those common to whites of his time. Lacking sufficient scientific understanding, I suppose they might be expected to make a lot of strange assumptions. Still, it's rather alarming to me that Jefferson wasn't more astute when it came to the realities of slavery when he spent so much time loving one.

[Kalish]

11. Yes

he was worried about a race war.

However, I'm sure he'd be pleasantly surprised and quite happy that things worked out the way they did.

[SaveElmer]

9. I too admire Jefferson...but

He was a hypocrite on slavery...even in his time. In fact his actions in some way are worse than others because he recognized and internalized the evil of slavery and did nothing about it...which he certainly could have done.

Washington for example, freed his slave upon his death. This does not seem terribly heroic now, but for the time, for a man in his position, it was unprecedented. And he actually tried to formulate a plan to do it while he was President...but finally concluded the South would bolt the union (he was probably correct in this), and the legal maneuvering required was so onerous he could not come up with a plan that was feasible at that time.

Washington is probably a good standard by which to judge others of his class at that time

[Deja Q]

7. He was also a slaveowner.

But nobody's perfect...

Those are good quotes.

[OKDem08]

10. slave owner Thomas Jefferson

"we find these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal"
an eloquent hypocrite

[Kalish]

12. attitudes like this

and others on this thread are exactly why we lose...

The right wing wades into the thick of history and plants their flag on the very heart of our country, its founding, and our founders, and we just let them have them...calling them 'slave owners', etc....

Meanwhile they were people way ahead of their time, the liberals of their day; some so liberal on matters of religion they probably couldn't even get elected president these days; absolutely committed to science and art; and all around people we should be using to frame and bolster our arguments.

Instead we've abandoned them to the right wing, just like we abondoned the heart of our country to the right wing.

I guess all we can do is complian and whine and point fingers.

Fucking no one's perfect. But our founders and people like Thomas Jefferson were great men, and on the side of freedom and Democracy.

And Thomas Jefferson was personally opposed to slavery, even wanted to put into the Dec. of Ind., but at the time national unity was more important, otherwise the Revolution could not have been won. Afterwards as a legislator he also put forth a bill that would have abolished slavery in all the new territories, but withdrew it when he realized that the South would be up in arms. He was moving the country in the right direction on the issue. Once again, ahead of his times...

[Spiffarino]

14. Certainly ahead of his time

...but not perfect.

Yes, that's the trouble with us progressives...too steeped in reality. Hero worship is just not our thing.

As imperfect and occasionally wrong as he may have been, Jefferson was and continues to be among the greatest thinkers and doers of all time. He shaped American democracy and he was instrumental in ensuring the freedoms we all enjoy to this day. His words AND his deeds will echo throughout time. I pray we may be worthy of his efforts.

[Kalish]

15. We need to use him and others to frame our arguments

We need to use their words to help bolster our arguments.

No need to hero worship. But we need to nip this 'we were founded as a Christian nation' BS meme in the bud, right now. We can't wait. But I don't see anyone, anywhere standing up to it. Democrats are playing the same game, trying to be conciliatory towards the right wing Christians. Meanwhile the true words of Thomas Jefferson and the others gets ignored. Why?

[Gold Metal Flake]

13. Read "What would Jefferson Do" by Thom Hartmann.

It's a must for all Progressives.

[Gabi Hayes]

16. love your pantheon, most particularly the non-wasp part

and, most specifically, the great hero Sibel

[PurityOfEssence]

17. When John Kennedy addressed nobel laureates in the White House

he said that it was "...probably the greatest concentration of talent and genius in this house except for perhaps those times when Thomas Jefferson ate alone."