I must admit I got suspicious when I saw a young muslim the other day

[quinnox]

I was on the bus and this young guy who looked like a middle eastern type got on the bus with a backpack. Just for a monent or two I wondered if maybe there was something in that backpack because he seemed a little nervous. Luckily my fears were misplaced but I do keep an eye out because you never know when what happened in London could happen here.

[NYCGirl]

1. He might have been nervous because everyone on the bus was eyeing him

suspiciously.
:evilgrin:

[ewagner]

6. I was about to

make the same point....

I'm sure a lot of people of Middle-eastern descent will be acting "suspicious" or "nervous" for the next few months.... I'm sure some people of that descent are wondering if what happened in London can happen here....no...not the bombings... the infamous "5 to the noggin" as Faux News put it....

[converted_democrat]

110. There is a Muslim family that runs a store that I go to alot..............

They are the nicest people you could ever want to meet. Anyway my husband and I were at Radio Shack looking at a new digital camera, and the husband of this family walked into the Radio Shack and was looking around. I walked up to say hi, but he had his backed turned to me, so I touched his arm, to get his attention. He just about jumped out of his skin. He was terrified. He looked like he thought someone was going to kill him. When he realized who I was he was fine, and he apologized profusely. He told my husband that in this political climate he was scared. He had never had a problem with people around town, until after the London bombings. People would make rude comments to him and his family, and someone egged his house a few days ago. This has been really tough on him. He is a good man, and I feel for him and his family. I know they would never hurt anyone, and I feel bad they have to go through this.

[LeftNYC]

2. Where do you live? nt

[quinnox]

3. Oregon, an out of the way place

but like I said you never know. I know it is very unlikely but it pays to be vigilant

[LeftNYC]

4. gotcha...nt

[BiggJawn]

9. "It pays to be vigilant"?

Like how? Unless you were about 10 seconds away from assaulting the guy and ripping his backpack off, I fail to see how it "pays to be vigilant", unless there's some satisfaction in going "A-HAH! THOUGHT So!" as the blast rips your guts loose...

I'm sorry, but that sounds like some kind of Klan code-word or something.

The guy is probably scared shitless to even go out in public.

[quinnox]

Yea, thats what I mean

If I saw something happening then I would try to prevent it, hell, I think most poeple would in todays climate. Did you hear about the airplane deal a year or two after 9/11 happened where everyone tackled that guy who was making trouble?

[BiggJawn]

24. The airplane deal?

You mean the one where they beat up a guy because he "looked Islamic"?

<sigh> I really don't think suicide bombers stand up and yell "Listen, everybody, I'm gonna detonate this bomb in 5...4....3..."...

[FreedomAngel82]

49. Probably

I would be too with people giving you the "evil eye" and all that.

[Karenina]

58. You are OBVIOUSLY white

and do NOT possess the skills to identify someone as "non-white" or "Muslim." However, upon *your* say-so, it appears to be the consensus that the "object" of YOUR suspicion should be executed with impunity.

Forgive me, Quinnox, this is NOT a personal shot at you. I would be delighted if more would take the time to examine their assumptions. YOUR life does NOT depend on it, but MINE DOES.

As one of our British posters responded, feeling "safe" from the new "policy" installed in the U.K., "I'm a middle-aged woman with an upper class accent." So am I. However, my skin is the wrong color. She is "safe," I am a candidate for execution.

[quinnox]

62. I don't know where that came from

but nowhere did I say the guy should be executed, I just said I was suspicious and that my fears turned out to be misplaced.

And don't worry about taking shots, god knows I have taken plenty here at DU in other threads, I can take it

[Karenina]

69. Hey, Q!

Let's not talk past each other... You admit your fears were misplaced. My point is, many CANNOT and as a result, those of us who are considered "the other" suffer GREATLY. What I am admittedly, quite clumsily trying to get you to do, is to LOOK AT and FEEL, standing in the shoes of "the other."

[quinnox]

74. I appreciate that

I understand what you are saying

[BikeWriter]

79. You are OBVIOUSLY assuming a lot.

[Karenina]

86. Oh?

[tjdee]

120. Like quinnox OBVIOUSLY assumed a lot about that guy?

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

106. Oklahoma City is an "out of the way place" too

Yet it wasn't entirely safe.

[Caution]

5. his nervousness was probably due to being assumed to be a terrorist

fear is natural. Don't let it rule you. There are about a billion muslims in the world. If they were all terrorists and all "hated america" we'd be screwed. A TINY fraction of a fraction of a fraction of this number are terrorists. About the same amount of Christians are as well.

Keeping your eyes out for terrorism is an exercise in futility and a waste of your time and energy. You have a better shot at winning the lottery. Twice. In a row. than of being killed by a terrorist. Better to spend your time attempting to convince the government to change the policies that result in terrorism.

[ComerPerro]

7. Its good to see that you recognized your behavior

Its not something I've ever really done, however.

Then again, I don't live in a large city.

[Gemini Cat]

8. I get nervous too, when people are starring at me.

Many people carry back packs.

This culture of fear seriously bites.

[Fescue4u]

10. Nothing wrong with being suspicious

The people who were cautious and aware of their surroundings lived to have children who have the same attributes.

The oblivious people were eaten by tigers a few million years ago.

[ck4829]

11. You will probably die...

By the result of a GOP policy and not by a Terrorist

Policies like...

Carcinogens in the water

Botched Health care

Or the result of Republicans arming terrorists decades ago

[Davis_X_Machina]

12. How did you know he was a Muslim?

Could have just as easily been a Christian, or a Jain, or Zororastrian nothing at all., or

[quinnox]

13. I thought he was one

I'm not exactly sure though of course what his religion was

[Karenina]

37. Could you have been COMPLETELY MISTAKEN???

Could the "object of your suspicion" have been a home-grown bi-racial AMERICAN kid who has realized his SKIN COLOR makes him a a TARGET FOR WHITE FOLKS???

[Fescue4u]

40. I think thats what he said.

not really rocket science

maybe we should ban certain thoughts to prevent mind readers from being offended!

[Karenina]

63. Was her name Eunice

or Gladys? Was it I-75 that got shut down?

[Fescue4u]

67. I think the answer is 14

[BiggJawn]

95. No it's 42.

The computer said so.
:7

[quinnox]

42. It's possible

I'm not going to say it isn't but still I like to keep an eye out when I'm out and about, and not just for terrorists but for crime in general and other potentially dangerous situations.

[Karenina]

82. Zum beispiel

If your default template is: "Nigras ALL carry knives," your sense of "danger" is informed by that, be it true or false. A man gets on the elevator wearing an Armani suit, a Rolex and carrying a Louis Vuitton briefcase, BUT ALL YOU CAN SEE is his skin color as you hug your purse while the adrenalin courses through your body...

[Sapphire Blue]

14. I know of a young man who was pulled off a city bus because an elderly

woman thought he might be a terrorist... he looked like he might have been 'Arab', wore dark clothing, and had a laptop... therefore, he must be a terrorist. :sarcasm: This young man was neither an 'Arab', and most certainly not a terrorist... he was newspaper employee, on his way to work. After the police stopped the bus and talked to him, they apologized profusely & gave him a ride to work... he could just as easily have been 'disappeared'.

So much for profiling.

[julialnyc]

15. It is only human to feel that way

I've done it myself many times on the subway. It sucks to feel like that (I don't like thinking of myself as someone who gets nervous at an innocent person like that). The truth of the matter is that it is human to feel that way. I don't know where you live, but I am still dealing with some fear after going through 9/11 in NYC. It's easy for my imagination to get carried away.

I moved to the suburbs in December (not because of fear, but for my husband's job), but frequently free-lance in the city.I always drive in now......... I haven't taken the subway in over a year (the anxiety of being trapped down there with my imagination was too much for me waaaay before London happened).I know it is being weak and caving to terrorists, but I can't help it. 9/11 installed a bit of an anxiety disorder in me.

I've seen it from the other side too. My husband's college friend visited us in NYC and we took the subway to the baseball game and everyone stared at him (he's Indian). He actually asked me to talk to him so people would know he was with us.

It's really just a sad situation all around.

[malachibk]

61. I take the NYC subway at least 4 days a week during rush hour

And even though it goes against my principles, I admit I do profile -- I just can't help it.

Rather than make anyone feel uncomfortable, I have, on rare occasions, switched cars if my mind was running away from me. This happened for a few weeks after Madrid, and is happening now, after London.

It irks me a bit that people who don't take the subway every day for their livelihoods admonish those of us who "profile". Same way it bothers me when right-wingers use 9/11 for political gain. I feel somewhat protective over my city and what we've gone through and unless you live here or "went through it" in some other significant way, don't judge those who have for the things we have to do to keep our sanity.

It is clear to most NYCers that (a) it's gonna happen here and (b) the police and MTA are TOTALLY unprepared (random bag searches are a joke).

So, yes, I profile to put my mind at ease and to give myself an admittedly false increased sense of "security". Sorry.

[julialnyc]

73. I agree with you

I've known it would happen in the subways since 9/11. I used to have panic attacks and jump off waaaaayyyy before me stop and walk the rest of the way to work. I couldn't help it. If anyone is familiar with the NYC subway, over a million people ride it everyday jammed in like sardines with zero security.


I find it therapeutic to talk about the fear I've had (because yes, I feel guilty I profiled an innocent person). How can people be so self righteous to vilify the fact that someone experienced a little fear.

I hate Bush and everything he stands for too, but 9/11 did happen.... Madrid did happen.... London did happen (and something else will happen). I live a normal life, but jeez, if I get a little scared once in a while I'm not going to beat myself up over it.

[notadmblnd]

16. was Muslim tatooed in his forehead?

How could you tell? I have a lot of Arab christian friends. I was just wondering what you saw about him that made you think he was muslim?

[quinnox]

19. I answered this up thread

I can't be sure, but I thought he might be one at first glance

[Fescue4u]

20. Oh come on. Muslims are not THAT hard to identify

While its hardly 100% accurate, arab folks wearing a turbin is pretty good evidence.

[Modem Butterfly]

22. A muslim wearing a turban is probably not a Muslim at all

Turbans are most often found on Sikhs.

[Fescue4u]

25. I was waiting for someone to say that

There's a difference between the sikhs turbins and Muslim turbins.

Within 200ft of where Im sitting (at work), there's at least 3 examples of turbins of different types.

Not to mention that there are other facial characteristics (generally) between arabs and Indians

[Modem Butterfly]

28. Uh-huh.

:eyes:

[Fescue4u]

33. Look it up then

take this as an opportunity to educate yourself.

[Kraklen]

34. Most muslims don't even wear turbans.

So I don't even know why you're telling other people to get educated.

[Fescue4u]

36. exactly

Most don't wear turbins

Im glad you are around here to tell us these things

[Modem Butterfly]

51. But when they do, they wear them differently from Sikhs

Also, they have different facial features.

:rofl:

[Fescue4u]

56. You don't think that people have different facial features?

wow! So I guess your parents had name tags so that you could tell them apart eh?

[Modem Butterfly]

57. I don't think religion = race

[Fescue4u]

59. correct.

you really do want to argue with me don't you?

Lets find something we disagree on.

Here's some things:

I like cats

Chocolate is the best.

Empire strikes back is the best of the star wars series.


Pick one of the above and lets argue about it!

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fescue4u]

65. There definitely is a joke here

But now your not funny anymore because you have resorted to name calling.

You call me a bigot, yet you damn someone because they had an impure thought.

I think that you protest to much.

[Kraklen]

76. "impure thought?" No. Bigotry.

If somebody has a bigoted thought, hopefully they can learn better. But I don't think that can be said for people who actively defend bigoted thoughts.

[Fescue4u]

81. I agree.

who here defended these impure thoughts?

[Modem Butterfly]

41. You go first

http://www.sikhpride.com/sikhguide.htm

http://www.canteach.ca/elementary/sikhism9.html

http://911prejudice.stanford.edu/

http://muttaqun.com/malehijab.html

FYI, there are many different ways to wear a turban. And you can't tell what religion someone practices by looking at their facial features.

:eyes:

I can't believe I had to say that on DU.

[Fescue4u]

46. lol

we seem to be arguing the same point.

Perhaps you should find someone whom you disagree with to argue.

[Modem Butterfly]

47. Right.

:eyes:

[Fescue4u]

48. RIGHT

:eyes:

[skypilot]

38. The problem is...

...that too many Americans can't tell the difference between a Sikh, a Muslim and a Puerto Rican who's just having a bad-hair day.

[Fescue4u]

44. Absolutely agree with that.

This poor guy is being blasted because his intuition raised alarm, and he quickly dismissed it using his own knowledge.

He took no action, realized he was wrong and went about life.

But because he had an impure thought, its time to hang him I guess.

[Modem Butterfly]

45. He should be afraid of the other people on the bus

White males have been responsible for most of the terrorist acts in the United States.

[VelmaD]

50. But was it really "intuition"...

or just a reaction to the propoganda they use to instill fear in us?

[Fescue4u]

52. I'm not sure there is a difference

I understand what you are saying though.

But proganda if digested throughly enough becomes part of ones intution (thats my opinion). Really thats the entire point of propagand.

But I don't think we should damn the guy because he had impure thoughts.

He had those thoughts or intution and quickly dismissed using higher reasoning. In other words, he put aside his bigotry (I.E THATS WHAT WE WANT PEOPLE TO DO)

[julialnyc]

54. it's both

it's propaganda because the government wants us to think things are more likely to happen then they are...... this government lives to breed fear.

On the other hand we just had London happen, so the fear is based on something (not on the usual bump the code to orange because poll numbers are down)

[Hosnon]

90. Well can anyone tell the difference between a white Brit, German,

Frenchman, etc. just by looking at them?

[Modem Butterfly]

91. They wear their turbans totally different from each other

:rofl:

[skypilot]

98. Probably not but...

...chances are pretty good that a person isn't going to give a German or Brit a hard time because he has a problem with the French; a problem that Sikhs and other non-Muslim Asian men tend to have with people who are wary of or hostile to Muslims.

[Hosnon]

100. Definitely true - I was just pointing out that we will never be able to

identify people just by looking at them, no matter what nationality/skin color/hair color, etc.

[skypilot]

103. You're right. The problem though...

...is with the knuckleheads who think that they can identify a person's nationality, religion, etc. just by looking at them and then proceed to act--sometimes violently--based on this presumed ability. Those are the people I'm thinking of. We've all read a few stories about them since 9/11.

[Hosnon]

108. Yes - they obviously possess greater intelligence than I. nt

[noiretextatique]

109. or a brazillian eom

[skypilot]

114. Or a Mexican.

That reminds me of this stand-up comic I saw on Conan O'Brien. His name is Greg Giraldi (sp?). Anyway, he was the first comic I saw do any material incorporating Sept.11, and this was just a few months after the attacks. He wrapped up his gig with a bit about a bunch of party girls from Jersey who wanted to go out on the town in Manhattan and who weren't going to be deterred because of "...what those Mexicans did." He was a very brave man and he was actually funny.

[noiretextatique]

119. timothy mcveigh, anyone?

and other anti-government and/or white surpemacist homegrown WHITE AMERICAN terrorists?
i know i can't be the only one who first thought they were responsible for 911.

[manic expression]

87. You deny the existence of Indian Muslims?

there are quite a few.

Also, Sikhs wear turbans in different ways. Some can almost look like a du-rag.

Hindus also wear turbans (for certain occassions).

[Carni]

83. Where are YOUR *Arab guys* from?

I have never seen an Arab guy in a Turban. I believe Imams wear some type of head wrap but those are few and far between.

If I were to get freaky every time I ran into a person of middle eastern descent I would have to move from the state I am in. I would say 80% of the people I buy things from are of ME heritage these days so if they want to kill me they could just poison my food, tamper with my booze, put noxious killer fumes in my gasoline (well scratch that one because someone already did that)or poison my meal when I go out to eat.

I think what would make me more nervous on a subway is the way a person (any person) is dressed according to season--heavy clothes or large packages would make me nervous in this type of heat, at this time of year--and that to me is just basic common sense.

I recently (like two months ago) saw a very white man going into a store in a long heavy over coat...I will admit I did my own "profiling" and just skipped that particular store.
A long heavy overcoat in warm weather looked a little foreboding to me and could have been concealing a shotgun or God knows what all else. I guess my point is...there were serial killers loons and nutcases long before *terrorism* was promoted as a mainstream danger.
One nutty guy with a gun that wants to kill himself because he got in a fight with his wife can be a *terrorist* so this isn't anything new IMO

Profiling for bombers by skin color or ethnithicity is a joke.
A very non-productive joke...JMO

On Edit: My remarks about ME people poisoning me or offing me in some way were written in sarcasm. Just wanted to clarify that!

[Karenina]

88. That's T-U-R-B-A-N to you...

:eyes:

[Fescue4u]

102. Your're an excellent speller

congratulations!

[CJCRANE]

97. Taliban wear turbans

but most of them live in Afghanistan. A muslim terrorist living in the west would be pretty dumb to dress up like a Taliban.

on edit: most of the guys wearing turbans in western countries are probably Sikhs.

[tocqueville]

17. I see muslims everyday

I live in a town in the South of France. I see "arabs" everyday, I talk yo them, sometimes I go to "their" shops or markets, sometimes someone can join us when I drink or eat outside, My American wife goes to French classes with "them" and I consider one of them (Mohammed called "MoMo") as a friend...

When we discuss politics they always say that the terrorists hare a double menace to them. A menace because they can be victims and a menace because they are victims of suspicions....

If I was afraid here, the only solution would be to move to north pole...

[sui generis]

18. my SO is eastern european ancestry

(see avatar) he has olive skin, dark hair, brown eyes. He is frequently mistaken for "middle eastern" and we travel a lot, but it's the backpack thing, not the ancestry that should make you nervous.

For instance, I'm the one who always carries a backpack (my favorite carry-on piece), and Mr. Sui carries one of those overnight roller pieces.

I'm the one who consistently gets searched while Mr. Sui patiently waits for them to finish irradiating my 'nads - and it's not because of my purty mouf, my golden hair or my blazing green eyes.

It's the backpack . . .

[Horse with no Name]

21. This is so wrong on so many levels, but this is the world that Bush

created.
I fear for the Muslim community...whose crime is nothing more than to be a dark skinned person in an increasingly Aryan society.
Shame on you...and shame on the government for it's continual perpetuation of hate and bigotry.

[Fescue4u]

23. He did nothing wrong..at all

What are you? The thought police?


His instincts told him something was wrong.

Using observation, common sense, uncommon sense, life experience and reasoning he realized that there was no threat and took no action

You do this everytime you cross the street.

If one cant do that, you'll likely die young.

Now if he took inappropriate action, thats a different animal.

But there's nothing in the post to indicate it.

[BiggJawn]

27. Not this time anyway....

"You do this everytime you cross the street."

What, look at people who don't look as white-bread as me and think "I wonder if that's a Terra-ist?"?

[Fescue4u]

31. nope

but nice attempt at being obtuse.

So you don't look for cars when you cross the street?

Hope your life insurance policy is paid up.

[Kraklen]

43. What the OP describes is textbook racism.

I think the only people being obtuse are the ones arguing otherwise.

[BiggJawn]

89. Is this one-a them "Straw Mans"?

I thought we were talking about non-Anglo people getting on a bus, NOT looking for the very REAL hazard of approaching cars when crossing the street.

BUZZZZZZ!

Thanks for playing. Vanna will give you a home edition of our game backstage as you leave.

[Fescue4u]

104. Not at all

Im talking about intuition, evaluating a situation and either taking an action or dismissing it.

Its REALLY THAT SIMPLE.

Even Vanna would know that.

[Horse with no Name]

32. So are automatically afraid of every black person you meet?

Every Muslim?
Do you get the same reaction when a Caucasian person sits next to you with a backpack?
If you do..can almost be justified.
But to see a Muslim with a backpack and get nervous just goes to show you that this Hitler-esque approach on creating fear of one race is working.
To automatically think that someone is going to harm you simply by the color of their skin is bigotry.
Slice it, dice it...any way you cut it IS prejudice.

[Fescue4u]

35. Why would I be afraid to look in the mirror?

where did I say anything about being afraid?

where did I say "to automatically think that someone is going to harm you simply by the color of their skin"

I ALWAYS evaluate the situation around me when in public (usually at a subconscious level)

Its called being aware.

Its why you are here and why your ancestors were not eaten by tigers one million years ago.

[Hosnon]

92. I agree with you on these posts. One criticism of the PC police that

I happen to agree with is completely blinding ourselves in an attempt to be 'X'-blind.

[Kalish]

105. there appears to be a contingent of DUers

that would just let themselves get blown up, and not do anything to stop a suicide bomber for fear of being racist...

[Hosnon]

111. Yes I agree - I don't follow any principles blindly, such as don't

prejudge people - certain circumstances do warrant it.

[Kalish]

115. The chances are incedibly slim

but the people killed in London thought the same thing no doubt.

If you saw a Persian looking individual mumbling a prayer, reaching into a bulky jacket on a hot day on a crowded bus or train I think the rational thing to do is to stop him and see what he's doing. I don't even think that's rascist, it's just common sense. If it's all innocent, then all's good, and then you go on with your day.

The danger is when certain elements in our society just start lashing out indiscriminetaly and in anger. That's what must be avoided at all cost. That does nothing to help the situation and only makes things worse.

My two cents.

[noiretextatique]

123. the danger, folks...is that if you focus on"persians"

you might miss another timothy mcveigh.

[julialnyc]

39. I agree with you

Just because a thought ran through someones head once doesn't mean that they will start 1. thinking that everyone is a terrorist or 2. call the police and point fingers out of fear.

People can act very self righteous. No one is perfect and we've all had a couple thoughts that we wish we hadn't had.


I bet the majority of people who ride mass transit have had a thought or two. It doesn't mean they are racist or they live in fear........... your talking about a few random thoughts (and the writer of this obviously felt guilty after).

It sucks even harder for people who are arabic or look arabic (Muslim or not). It must feel horrible to have people suspicious of you all of the time. I can't imagine that nightmare.


There is no easy answer when talking about someone's emotions (because all we are talking about is emotion..........not action like getting people thrown off a plane.......... just a letting your imagination get carried away is human)

[quinnox]

53. thank you

I agree completely and your take on the situation I think is the intelligent one, and likewise with Fescue.

[noamnety]

26. Reminds me of last year's "Terror in the Skies"

She survived a flight with 14 harmless Syrian musicians -- then spread 3,000 bigoted and paranoid words across the Internet. As a pilot and an American, I'm appalled.

(snip)

"What I experienced during that flight," breathes Jacobsen, "has caused me to question whether the United States of America can realistically uphold the civil liberties of every individual, even non-citizens, and protect its citizens from terrorist threats."

Intriguing, no? I, for one, fully admit that certain acts of airborne crime and treachery may indeed open the channels to a debate on civil liberties. Pray tell, what happened? Gunfight at 37,000 feet? Valiant passengers wrestle a grenade from a suicidal operative? Hero pilots beat back a cockpit takeover?

Well, no. As a matter of fact, nothing happened. Turns out the Syrians are part of a musical ensemble hired to play at a hotel. The men talk to one another. They glance around. They pee.

http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2004/07/21/askthepilot95/

[Catrina]

29. I suppose many people are reacting

that way now. But, if you think logically about it, you are in far more danger of being injured on the highway by drunk drivers, speeders etc. statistically, than by a terrorist.

That's what I worry about, since someone very close to me died when a foreign driver (no, not a Muslim, European) whose license had been suspended 9 times, pulled out of a blind driveway and caused his death.

Otoh, one of our neighbors was killed on 9/11 ~ but we cannot live in fear ~ and I don't ~ if I did though, I would never go into a hospital after reading about the huge number of Americans who die each year as a result of a stay in a hospital, or get in car a because of the huge number of accidents that kill Americans each year, or go out alone at night as a result of the tens of thousands of murders that are committed each year in the US.

We could also be nervous about white males who look like Timothy McVeigh, or the Unibomber, or Rudolph, recently convicted of abortion clinic bombings and the Olympic park bombing.

The reason we think more about Muslims, who are responsible for far less deaths than the average American (murder, accidents, terror attacks etc.) is because that is where our focus and fear is directed for obvious reasons.

Today, more Americans will die as a result of the actions of other Americans, than those of terrorists, Muslims or otherwise, and more Muslims will die as a result of the actions of Americans, also. So, while it is true that Americans have died as a result of extremist attacks, if we were to be logical, we would be way more fearful of the average American, just by virtue of statistics. But, I understand your concern, and why it present in our society today. Fear is not always based on logic or statistics!

[Kraklen]

30. Yeah, you got to look out for black people too.

You never know when they're going to carjack you.


:sarcasm:

[Catherine Vincent]

55. Did he have a cute butt?

;-)

[uppityperson]

64. I have been careful of what I wear in public last 4 yrs.

I am obviously a middle aged white female. Obviously, no matter how I wish otherwise. While I will continue to wear readily available India clothing/hippie wear, I am careful of where and when I wear my more ethnicky salwar kameez (pants/tunic outfits from India/Pakistan). I have a mixed ethnic heritage, and do embrace my Indian/Pakistani side as well as my western and northern Eurpean side, but have been careful to not typecast myself in public by wearing salwar kameez and headscarf unless I want to prove a point and am very careful where I do that at.

This fear stuff sucks and I always tell people these 6 simple words when they start getting off on Islamic Terrorists: "Timothy McVeigh was a white boy".

It is good to face your prejudices. We all have them. It is good to face them, understand them, work at getting past them.

[Oilwellian]

66. What a horrid, bigoted thread

What exactly IS a "middle eastern TYPE?" And what exactly do you mean by "TYPE?"

On Edit: Maybe you should talk to Ricky Martin.

Ricky Martin Vows To Stamp Out Arab Stereotype

Puerto Rican pop hunk Ricky Martin has vowed to make an effort to change the negative perception of Arabs in the Western world. As part of his trip to Jordan - his first ever visit to the Middle East - Martin met with a group of teenagers who expressed concern about being labelled "terrorists" by other cultures.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4203894

[Modem Butterfly]

68. He means people who look like me

Black hair, brown eyes, dark skin.

He's talking about people who look just like me.

[Oilwellian]

72. I'm sorry you're experiencing this on DU

It's absolutely disgusting.

[Modem Butterfly]

107. It's extremely upsetting

[Fescue4u]

71. Yes I agree, he should punished

for having those impure thoughts that he took no action on, and felt guilty for having.

I suspect that George Orwell may have the solution for this.

[Oilwellian]

75. Who said anything about his being punished

You're doing what republicans do so well...twist words. As for George Orwell, fear of the unknown was one of his major themes. How fitting.

[Fescue4u]

80. Good point.

I'll just follow your lead and call him "horrid and bigoted"

:eyes:

[uppityperson]

77. I thought he was saying he found he was prejudiced and got past it

I thought most of the people here are admitting that of course we prejudge people, yet we are able to face that and get past it. Also that we have been indoctrinated with the FEAR the stranger crap, even though we try not to be. I judge people by sex, age, hair, etc, but try REALLY REALLY hard to not let that get in the way of interacting with them. I hate it when I must slap myself upside my head because I have had a bigoted thought but it happens. I try to be aware of them and not let them rule me. I also HATE the fact that the fear fear fear bs has taken root, however shallowly, in me. That is what I took the OP and many of the responders here to say.

We are all world citizens. We all make mistakes and it is good to acknowledge, take responsibility for them, learn and go on.

[Hosnon]

93. I agree..the attacks on the OP are ridiculous. Who here is HONESTLY

100% free of "horrid" thoughts such as this? Give the guy a break. He had the thought, recognized it, aired it on DU, and got nailed - good job guys, so proud of DU today...:eyes:

[smirkymonkey]

130. I agree, the self-righteousness here today is astounding.

There are very few people that are completely unpredjudiced all the time - and that means prejudice toward blacks, whites, christians, muslims, jews, democrats, republicans, men, women, gay people, etc...

We may not be proud of it, or even admit to it, but most people have bigoted thougths at one time or another. As long as we recognize that it's wrong and don't act out on it, I think it's understandable.

[quinnox]

78. Come on

Now this is obtuse, look up the word type in the dictionary but I think you know what I mean

[SmokingJacket]

70. As an American woman, I'm more likely to be raped

by a white man on any particular day than I am -- or you are -- to be a victim of a terrorist attack.

But if I felt frightened every time I saw a white man, I'd be pathetic.

I live near a large, international university. I see middle-eastern looking men with giant backpacks every time I get on the bus.

Let's get our fears in perspective here.

[Kalish]

84. I had a similar experience and I completely understand

I was in a bus standing in the middle isle. It was coming back from the airport, although anyone could have gotten on it as it had just stopped at the airport. It was packed, standing room only. A persian looking fellow was standing next to me. Now that alone doesn't trigger anything in my mind, as there's lots of people like that here. BUT he was wearing a jacket, yes it was a light jacket, but it was a hot hot day. ALSO, there was clearly something bulging out under it down low, above his belt, as if he was wearing a fanny pack or something, but it could have been anything (it had a square look to it and I don't think it was a fanny pack). He was staring straight ahead and not once looked at a puppy on the floor in front of us with which two kids were playing. I admit I watched him. If he made a movement that looked like he was reaching for something under his jacket and started mumbling a prayer I may have reached out and stopped him, looked him right in the eye, and then tried to size up the situation from there. I wasn't bugging him, I doubt he was even aware of my concern. I'm capable of being incredibly discreet about these things. No one else was bugging him. But there was a few moments where I truly wondered what was under that jacket. He got off the bus, and no terrorist attack happened, and all is well and good.

But it does pay to be at least somewhat watchful and aware of your environment. It's just common sense. You don't have to freak out, you don't have to point or harrass, just be aware.

That's the logical thing to do.

[tjdee]

118. You doubt he was aware of your concern?

You think he doesn't know he looks "Persian", LOL?
I'm sure he was aware of everyone's concern long before he walked on that subway.
I had corduroy pants on today, and it was 98 degrees. I guess that's suspicious, LOL.

[Kalish]

129. I doubt it

I didn't stare, there was a puppy running around our feet. It was very easy to steal a glance or two.

[mixedview]

85. This is the world I have to live in - terrorism screws people like me

more than anyone.

I'm of mixed race - half Indian (subcontinental), upper 20s, male.

After 9-11 I was harrassed and got into several fights. At the time I had longer hair and a beard - the whole 'korn' look. But I guess some folks mistook that as being Muslim. I'm a damn atheist for crying out loud.

Anyway, since 9-11, I make a concerted effort to look very Western - clean shaven, short hair style, etc. I even got a visible tattoo - this is something a Muslim would never have, I thought to myself.

I mean, I've always been more of a metrosexual anyway, lol, and I've always liked to try different 'looks', but the fact is I do NOT grow a beard because I'm too afraid it will cause problems. IOW, how I look is largely a result of my desire to avoid a beatdown.

And still, I tend to be paranoid and always aware of my surroundings.

I used to be more liberal. I still lean left, but I'm much more libertarian and independent now, because I've been forced to think about and deal with these issues. For example, now I strongly believe in the right to bear arms - the cops aren't going to save me.

[texanwitch]

94. I quess I am lucky I look white instead of native american like so many

of my relatives. I ride the bus and carry a large backpack because I sometimes shop at the grocery store near work before I go home, save on the gas in my truck. I feel sorry for my brother and cousins now, to maybe be a bomber because of your skin color.

Thanks Bush, love your America.

[goodhue]

96. I would keep this kind of thought to yourself.

It really is rather racist.

My first reaction is that you must not have much exposure to "middle eastern types", whatever the hell that means. Reminds me of the "middle eastern type" from Bolivia recently shot to death in London. Or the many, many "middle eastern types" who are US citizens whose heritage is from India for example, and who are absurdly routinely mistakenly harassed as "Arabs."

[Kalish]

101. there is a Persian look, just like there is a European/American look

it's not rascist...it's reality.

[goodhue]

113. The "look" may be a reality, it is the suspicion that is racist.

eom

[Kalish]

117. if the suspicion is based on nothing but bland appearence then yes

but if it's based upon other factors then it may fall into the category of rational concern. It's a fine line, and one that is subjective in many ways.

[noiretextatique]

121. so true...mcveigh had that european/american look

it probably contributed to his "success" in oklahoma.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

122. My parents have a Syrian friend. She has blond hair and blue eyes.

She's an Arab.

My uncle is Irish American. He has black hair and black eyes. One day in the sun and he looks like he's been in Mexico for a month. He's European American.

There is no definitive look. If you have traveled the world, you realize this. If you live in a large urban area, you definitely realize this.

[julialnyc]

112. why can't this person share thoughts

I have friends from every background. I don't fear anyone else's race, but I do fear terrorism........ big time! Living in NYC is great, but unless you are super human your body and mind remember 9/11 and certain situations freak me out.


It is a heart breaking thing what happened, and it is a heart breaking thing for people to now be looked at suspiciously because they may look like a certain background. My friend who is Syrian says her family live in a bizarre dichotomy of fearing the terrorists and people thinking they are the terrorists.

Some honest discussions are hard to have because we see something we don't like in ourselves. I am not racist at all, but I am scared of being blown up in a subway.

It is a complicated world with no easy answers.

[noiretextatique]

125. i understand your fear

but it's just as likely that a white supremacist or anti-government type, many of whom happen to be white and american, *might* blow you up too.
i would wager that some are thinking about that now, because just about everyone would assume it was "middle eastern types."

[julialnyc]

127. I do understand that

but I also think that if someone has a little fear of riding the subway or bus right now it is normal............ it may not be logical when you look at the statistics of the different ways and the different people who want to harm you, but it is normal.


i don't know why I'm more scared riding the subway than driving my car (I'm more likely to get hurt in the car), but I imagine it has something to do with feeling like you have control over a situation.

Some people deal with this better than others...... some have a little PTSD (I know I do).

You never know what might make a persons mind work.I for one lost someone on 9/11 and was in the city downtown. This wasn't family or a best friend, but someone I knew. I just can't help thinking about those last moments and how terrifying they must have been. I have a REALLY big fear of being trapped in a space I can't get out of.


It is a tragedy that these terrorists have made life so awful for so many people that walk around being judged.

I can only speak for myself, but I am scared shitless of terrorism,not an ethnic group and if my mind isn't thinking straight sometimes, I feel awful about that. But it isn't so black and white. We have many fears that we suppress that can bite us sometimes. I'm not proud of it, I'm just being honest.

[noiretextatique]

132. my condolences on the loss of your friend

of course i understand and share some fear. however, as a "suspect" person myself, i also fear that the afraid may harm me.

[rainbow4321]

99. Meanwhile, the dude who looked like...

Tim McVeigh had no one staring at him.

[noiretextatique]

116. you may have more to fear from people who look like

timothy veigh, who was not a 'middle eastern type.'

http://cbs11tv.com/investigations/local_story_330180036.html

Nov 26, 2003 3:30 pm US/Central
By Todd Bensman
Investigative Producer

...Three people linked to white supremacist and anti-government groups are in custody. At least one weapon of mass destruction - a sodium cyanide bomb capable of delivering a deadly gas cloud - has been seized in the Tyler area.

Investigators have seized at least 100 other bombs, bomb components, machine guns, 500,000 rounds of ammunition and chemical agents. But the government also found some chilling personal documents indicating that unknown co-conspirators may still be free to carry out what appeared to be an advanced plot. And, authorities familiar with the case say more potentially deadly cyanide bombs may be in circulation.

[donheld]

124. This is what listening to much to *

and the MSM will do to us all. Instill us with fear.

[KG]

126. I must admit I got suspicious when I saw a white guy with a crewcut

and blue eyes driving a Ryder rental truck the other day. he looked kinda worried. luckily, he wasn't headed for the local federal building, so my fears were misplaced. I do keep an eye out because you never know when what happened in Kansas City could happen here, oh wait it did happen here.

[goodhue]

128. Washington Post: Think you can spot an Arab American? If so, guess again.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10780-2004Jul24_2.html

The Perils Of Profiling

Think you can spot an Arab American? If so, guess again. Most Americans are notoriously bad at identifying people by their race or ethnicity, asserts Jeremy M. Weinstein, an assistant professor of political science at Stanford University.

"In a climate where discrimination against Arab Americans is on the rise, people are often getting it wrong," said Weinstein, who conducted the research with colleagues James Habyarimana of Georgetown University, Macartan Humphreys of Columbia University and Daniel N. Posner of UCLA.

That's an understatement. In tests conducted on the campuses of USC and UCLA in Los Angeles, nearly 100 study participants were shown a series of photos of young people and asked to guess their race or national origin. The images were selected to be a representative sampling of facial types of Asians, blacks, Caucasians, Latinos and people of Middle Eastern descent.

These students were able to correctly identify the ethnicity of Arab Americans only about 27 percent of the time.

* * *

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10780-2004Jul24_2.html

[Lannes]

131. Having a "knee jerk" reaction is human

The real test is whether or not you act on it.

[Moderator]

133. locking..

This thread has run its course.



DU Moderator