censoring the views of those who oppose the war against Iraq....

[mike_c]

I'm getting really tired of having posts deleted when they question the "service" of military men and women fighting in Iraq. I generally do so without using heated language, without resorting to name-calling, and as respectfully of other people's disagreement as I can. I understand that those posts express a minority viewpoint, and I also understand the importance of doing so without trampling the rights of others to disagree. I only wish the "support our troops" crowd would extend the same courtesy.

The essence of my argument is that fighting in Iraq is not "defending America" or even serving American interests. The war against Iraq is a war of aggression, a war crime by definition, and under the Nuremberg protocals and the U.N. Charter, a crime against humanity. I believe that participating in that war is exactly the same as Nazi military participation in the invasion and occupation of Poland (and the siege of Falluja sure does offer parallels with the suppression of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, but that's another story). We can't have it both ways-- we denied the Nazis absolution for "just following orders," even orders that were legal in Germany, and we established the principle that wars of aggression are themselves criminal enterprises, no matter how they are conducted. The Nuremberg decisions specifically stated that they applied to the United States as well as to the Axis powers during WWII.

Over and over again my attempts to discuss this perspective, or simply to make the point, are deleted from DU-- presumably because someone does not want to face the harsh truths about what our military is doing in Iraq. Either the moderators or other members of the DU community find criticisms of "our" military offensive. This is hypocritical in the extreme-- it's the same sort of hypocrisy that the GOP employs when it attempts to excuse its crimes as being somehow different from other people's crimes.

But you know what? Crime is crime, and war crimes are war crimes. Dismissing the argument that OUR military is involved in an ongoing war crime is hypocrisy of the worst sort. Deleting reasoned posts that state that argument is censorship of the worst sort-- the sort that prohibits a critical self examination. Two such posts were deleted within the last hour, and that total will probably have risen by the time I post this comment. There is every chance that this post itself will be locked because it criticises not just the war against Iraq, but the U.S. military that is an essential component of that war of aggression.

[JimmyJazz]

1. I'm not trying to be rude, but you might want to read the rules

if you are wondering why your posts are deleted. It is specifically against DU rules to bash the troops. Although I haven't read your posts, that might be what is causing the problem. :shrug:

[mike_c]

3. if stating the truth about what we're doing in Iraq...

...is "bashing the troops," then that's part of the hypocrisy, isn't it? If the emperor is buck nekkid, pretending otherwise doesn't change the fact. And no offense taken, BTW.

[MsUnderstood]

4. Is critisizing the miltary the same as critisizing the troops

My perspective is that the troops are the individual soldiers "doing their job" but the military is the machine that is making the decesions about what jobs need to be done.

For example, I think the employees at the IRS are really hard workers who follow the rules given to them very well, but the IRS is a big jumble of dookey that terrorizes American Citizens to squeeze every last penny out of them.

You see the distinction?

[bloom]

2. "war crimes are war crimes"

I agree.

And I also think that it is a Patriotic duty to speak out against the illegal war and to discourage people from signing up.

Everything about the war is bad for our country. I don't think it does anyone a service to say otherwise.

[no_to_war_economy]

5. here here, bravo

you nailed it, the US is committing war crimes, the soldiers who are taking part in this are guilty of war crimes, we here in the homeland are guilty of war crimes - we pay for this noise and children of Iraq die as a result of the USA's actions

the truth stinks, smells, and most people don't want to acknowledge it

[Lerkfish]

6. I have not seen your earlier posts, but

I have no problem with the Iraq war portion of this post, as far as I can tell.
I DO think its counterproductive to complain in a thread of other deleted threads, sort of guaranteeing this one will deleted as well.

so...before that happens: I think you have correctly identified the problem, but I think the buck ultimately stops at the top, and not the bottom. You would never have abuses on the ground level of a hierarchy if it was not promoted, encouraged, or ignored by higher ups.
So, while I agree this war is illegal, and war crimes have been committed, I set my target much higher than you, and I think, appropriately so.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

8. Locking...

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