For God's sake, educate yourselves about civil unions and "marriage"!

[theHandpuppet]

I cannot believe that -- even now -- how many long-time posters on DU do not understand that civil unions do not provide the same rights and benefits as legal marriage"!!!

Legalizing gay marriage would not require ANY church to recognize such a union, no more than it would require that a mosque perform a Catholic wedding or a Catholic church perform a wedding of Baptists.

Marriage is a LEGAL CONTRACT, not a religious ceremony. Approving civil unions for gays while denying them the right to marry discriminates against gay couples in the following ways (just some examples from http://hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Partners&CONTENTID=14362&TEMPLATE=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm )

*Lesbian and gay families are denied the same benefits married heterosexual families receive under Social Security.

*Lesbian and gay families are taxed for health benefits provided to their domestic partners, while married heterosexual families are not.

*After the loss of a job, lesbian and gay families are not guaranteed the opportunity to purchase continued health coverage for a domestic partner, although married heterosexual couples are."

The "civil unions" acts you have read about being passed in some states are not binding in other states; only marriage, which is LEGALLY recognized by the federal government, provides gay couples equal rights and protections under the law. That is why Bush and his fundie base want a Federal Marriage Act, so that any civil unions recognized by individual states will NEVER allow gays to have the rights and benefits guaranteed under federal laws, and will ensure that no civil union granted by one state must be recognized by any other state.

Whether or not you personally believe in "marriage", unless you support the right of gay couples to marry you are effectively supporting discrimination which denies gay couples the basic rights and protections enjoyed by heterosexual couples.

Educate yourself and stop letting the fundies frame the argument for you.

[OrlandoGator]

1. Legal and religious marriage are blurred together to most people.

They lack the cognitive reasoning to tell the difference.

[theHandpuppet]

2. Well, let's provide another illustration

A divorced catholic can *legally* remarry whether or not the marriage would be recognized by the Catholic Church. Just because the church would not recognize the marriage nor perform the ceremony doesn't make it illegal. Get it, folks?

[dsc]

3. In fairness it would be theoretically possible for civil unions not

to discriminate. To see that imagine if VT were its own country, then they wouldn't. Similarly, a federal civil unions law which gave all the rights to civil unions which marriages currently have would, in theory, not be discriminatory. But as a practical matter, that is close to impossible. Way too many laws would have to be changed.

[theHandpuppet]

6. Yet you still couldn't have a "separate but equal" clause...

... without first defining marriage as a union only between one man and one woman. IOW, you would have to define WHY a "separate but equal" clause existed. A difference which makes no difference IS no difference.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

4. Absolutely. Civil rights are NOT NEGOTIABLE.

eom.

[CTLawGuy]

5. does the federal government recognize MA gay marriages?

Im genuinely curious.

[theHandpuppet]

7. The Federal Government does not recognize gay marriage of ANY state

That's the difference between the "civil union" afforded by a state and any legal recognition by the federal govt. If gay marriage was recognized by the federal govt, like heterosexual marriage is now, you could be married in Mass and still be married in Mississippi with the same federal rights and protections. Right now state law rules, but its powers extend only to those rights afforded by the individual states.

[CTLawGuy]

13. then what does it matter whether states have marriage or civil unions

until the federal government acts to recognize gay marriage?

[Guaranteed]

8. self-delete

Too damned early.

[theHandpuppet]

9. No church is forced to recognize ANY marriage

"Gay marriage" is about legal rights, not religious ceremonies. If you think that legalizing gay marriage would force churches to marry gay couples, you are majorly misinfomed. Stop letting the RW twist the facts.

Any heterosexual couple in this country can be legally married, whether they have the all-out wedding ceremony in a cathedral, a drive-by in Vegas or by a Justice of the Peace. Marriage is the legal contract, not the religious ceremony.

[Guaranteed]

12. Yeah, I read the post wrong. nt

[theHandpuppet]

10. That's okay

Methinks you were up too late following the CAFTA disaster. I think you are more hopeful about the Dem Party than I am, BGL, having seen our party these past few years never turn down another neocon invitation to bend over and grab their ankles.

[Guaranteed]

11. Not so hopeful myself, anymore. nt