Its great that the Wilson CIA outing is making headlines, HOWEVER

[shance]

I am stopped in my tracks by the glaring reality that, to receive high alert media attention, it takes one CIA operative put in harms way to override the deaths of over 400 of our troops and easily 15,000 innocent Iraqi citizens?

I think this bears major attention as to the overall value we are placing on American lives here.

I do not mean to minimalize, on the contrary, all lives as far as I am concerned are of equal importance, but I have to ask this question,

have Washington insiders and CIA officials become that much more important than thousands of innocent individuals and American citizens?

And is this what it takes to prompt an investigation?

I have to wonder how the parents of the dead soldiers feel about this.

Im sure it may be encouraging on one hand, and then in the other, it could be enraging and heartbreaking to be viewed so expendible and see one life as being so important.

And we wonder why there is so much abuse and rage in this society??

I have followed the Wilson story and am very grateful that it is receiving the attention it well deserves.

And yet, if CIA lives are that much more important and of value than the innocent kids and Iraqis that are caught in a oil quagmire, where are Washingtons' priorities?

Have we become that shallow?

It makes me numb to think that thousands of young idealistic kids and innocent Iraqi families with dreams and aspirations are so irrelevant when it comes to this supposed "great" nation.

Something doesnt seem right to me.

[DrBB]

1. Hey, I'll take what I can get

Presidents have been afforded a huge leeway to make war since WWII. Even unelected ones, apparently. And however badly they fuck it up, they're more or less covered. Apparently.

But this is a nice, neat-n-tidy breach of federal law, at the level of--not to put too fine a point on it--treasonous acts, as defined by REPUBLICANS (the relevant law having been instituted by Bush I). So if they can pin it to, say, Rove's fat ass, well what does that mean?

It means not only does Rove get canned (yanking a major support from under the Flying Chimp), it means that our High And Mighty Generalissimo In The War Against Terrorism has the rug yanked out from under him in the "patriotism" realm.

I severly misdoubt it will happen, more's the pity. But if it does, I'd say that's a pretty good downpayment on what Dubya and Cronies owe for the depredations of the last three years.

[shance]

3. I agree and yet I am still struck by what it takes to garner attention,

the protests, the deaths, in comparison appear to have little relevance. I know everything is all part of the bigger picture and yet, I dont know, I can see where people could get bitter by feeling invisible and dispensible. I can see where the lack of recognition is stark.

Its a conflict. I am very grateful and inspired to see Mr. Wilson having the courage and strength to speak the truth and stand up for his wife and for what is right*** That takes a lot of conviction, determination and concern for what is happening to the country, which is more than I can say for many who are sitting on the sidelines, or in total denial.

And then there are many Americans have been screaming and protesting for a long time and essentially at times it has felt like no one has been home. Probably just where I am tonight.

Like I said, I know its all part of the process.

[calimary]

9. I Second That Emotion...

As one of those Americans out screaming and protesting for a long time (well, since the early anti-war gatherings last year, anyway), I know exactly how you feel. I remember laughing on the evening newscasts - specifically Aaron Brown's at CNN - on a Friday night, I believe, which was also the eve of that HUGE round-the-world day of protesting the THEN-impending war in Iraq. Or, my memory sometimes being what it can be, it might have been right AFTER the coverage. What I remember most specifically is ol' Aaron commenting on the size of the protests - either what was expected or what it was. Actually I think it WAS what was expected, and he voiced astonishment at how large these protests were, and how many, and how widespread. And he said words to the effect of - "It's hard to say whether these protests are just popping up mysteriously or whether they've been going on for awhile and gaining momentum and we've just now noticed." At any rate, whatever the wording, it was enough to make me do a spit-take.

You wonder how long you're gonna be out there hollering for people to wake up before they actually start stirring in their beds.

We were what we call "The Silenced Majority." Because you've got to know there are more of us than there are of them. Al Gore's legitimate victory, by the numbers, shows that. Factor in the folks who voted for other party people like Greens and Independents, and you have a slam-dunk. But because a cabal of loudmouthed hate-spewers have a monopoly on the delivery systems for information and opinion, you're only going to get the (GOP) party line. And we're sick of it!

LiberalHistorian, I'm with you! You've got to hit 'em back! You've got to stand up! There are more of us doing it, more obviously, and more noisily, nowadays, anyway, so perhaps it's now in vogue. Or maybe that the offenses have piled up just so damned high that there's no avoiding the mountain in your living room anymore. You can't sweep it under the rug anymore when it's a mountain instead of a few piles of crumbs. I think as time goes on, and MAYBE (I have no inside scoop on things like the CIA/DOJ/Ambassador-Wilson's-Wife Affair) too many holes spring up, and out, in the dike, that KKKarl will run out of fingers to plug all the leaks. The drip-drip-drip has become blop-blop-blop and splash-splash-splash. The trend is clear. If we want to win, we have to add water! Or if we're near that leaky drip-drip-drip we should grab the handle and crank it open further!

By the way, LiberalHistorian (and all you who seem to have these boorish brothers-in-law), I must share a NON-political lesson I learned with MY family bully - in this case, my - uh - er - brother-in-law! We were at my husband's parents' dinner table with my spouse and me, our baby, and my spouse's brother and his wife and two grade-school-age kids. Something was said from back in the annals of the family history that really bothered my husband. He objected and asked that they stop talking about it. They didn't. He objected again and further complained that nobody was taking his feelings into account. His brother kept at it and got somewhat in his face about it. My spouse got too emotional and frustrated, and LEFT! Fortunately we'd arrived in separate cars!

So there we sit, me with baby, and the rest of my husband's family. After the shocked silence was broken, and people started to mumble things again, sure enough - my brother-in-law starts in again on my husband and what a schmuck he was for getting upset and why couldn't he just get over it and the parents-in-law sort of ahem'ed their agreement. I spoke up, gently but firmly, and said - "can we talk about something else?" So they changed the subject. For about a good two minutes. Soon enough, my brother-in-law starts up again. This time, his wife joins in, adding her agreement. My parents-in-law basically sit there and just watch. I say again "can we talk about something ELSE?" And yet again, the conversation dies down. But a third time, it starts up again. This time, I get totally angry and not-nice anymore. I set down my fork and turned to him and loudly interrupted - "SHUT UP, (name-withheld)!!!"

And that was that. Mr. Name-withheld stood up and grabbed his jacket and walked out, his wife and two kids following close behind. I didn't see them again for years, until my father-in-law was about a month away from dying. Unbelievable. Taught me a most effective and memorable lesson: THE BULLY CAN DISH IT OUT, BUT HE CAN'T TAKE IT. The only way to win is to confront. Best done well-armed with facts. But confront! By all means! Don't lie down peacefully in front of them - they'll take you for a doormat and step on you. Hard. Don't be afraid. Remember: YOU'RE the one who's correct here.

On edit - when I finally did see my brother-in-law again, he treaded very carefully around me and hardly spoke at the dinner table, except for the most innocuous, harmless, trivial things. He appeared to be on his best behavior. I, on the other hand, was fully prepared to confront - AGAIN. Didn't need to, as it turns out. But I was ready - AND vigilant. NOBODY dumps on my husband and lives.

[FauxNewsBlues]

4. This is a scandal the Media does well

Complicated war things are icky. However, a leaking scandal is exciting, coverable, and requires nothing but local phone calls, and a cab ride around town to cover.

I agree that it is shameful that the media won't cover Iraq lies, but I will take what we can get.

[shance]

5. I agree and understand. I dont think there is any true right or wrong

with an answer per se, and yet there are questions I think we could all benefit from addressing in the process.

How does America (and our citizens) measure importance and value? How has that come to be? (Advertising, capitalism, materialism etc??)

And how do we change that perception and value system? Can we change it? Will our society survive if we dont change it?

[RainDog]

2. war is about killing

that is the whole point of war. I, too, hate that one person has died for Bush lies in Iraq, but if someone is in the services, they are trained to kill other people, not just to defend themselves.

Blowing an agent's cover does not just effect her, it effects ALL the work she had done OVER YEARS to build confidence among possible sources. Revealing her may have endangered other lives, and certainly has a negative impact on intel's ability to create trust.

But, beyond that, yes, lives in America are routinely assigned greater or lesser value depending upon their class or race or sex, even.

The issue here, too, is that there are so many things BushCo has done which deserve an honest accounting, but this seems to be one which can get a hearing and get enough publicity/outrage to fly.

Where's Ann Coulter now? Shouldn't she be calling for the death penalty for these two traitors?

[candy331]

6. I FEEL

distressed too that it would take something like this to garner attention. But as sad as it might be we do have to take what we can get. It is not easy to flush out corruption. Wilson's wife being an operative knows a lot herself. She certainly has been put in danger. She might need to consider her options about now. Shore up her true friends/buddies and watch her back and start an irrefutable information trail.

[GregD]

7. Cost of her being compromised

I heard Wilson speak, and I thought I heard it said that when his wife was compromised, that a network of 50 or 70 agents were similarly exposed (killed?) as a result of the inferred connection. Anyone able to corroborate that?

[newyawker99]

16. Hi GregD!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. It's about more than one agent...

...it's also about anyone with whom she associated during her operations overseas...they are all at risk thanks to Novak and whoever in the White House gave him the info to release to the public.

Additionally, the CIA and the Bushies have been at war for quite some time. The CIA has refused to tailor their reports to meet the needs of the Bushies, and the Bushies have tried to blame the CIA for every failure since 2000 to include 911.

Look at some additional indications that things are beginning to change:

1) One or more factions within the military and the intelligence communities are leaking damaging info about the Bushies on a daily basis. This is called "The Death of a Thousand Cuts";

2) The mainstream press is starting to not only print the leaks noted above, but they are also beginning to report good investigative sories about the Bushies on a daily basis. In fact, the mainstream press first started to print negative stories about the Bushies soon after the Tax Cut Bill came in at nearly 45% of what the big corporate conglomerates wanted.

3) The story about the CIA demanding an investigation by the DOJ into White House wrongdoing was under the byline of Andrea Mitchell, Greenspan's wife. The ramifications of this are enormous.

[shance]

10. As well as the overall neglect by our Media.....they are the true offender

They give us JLO and Ben, and Kobe, and anything else to numb us, dumb us down, and distract us from the truths and reality that is happening and rising in volume and in intensity. Its beyond horrific really.

They have been such offenders to Americans and Democracy,
and the networks have allowed so much of the truth to be ignored, and as a result have revealed their own classism and even Darwinism as a result.

[Jose Diablo]

17. Has anyone started a thread about anti-trust laws

And the media? I read this morning something about 'tension' between journalists and corporate owners of the media. Somehow this was supposed to insure an informed citizen and oversight of government.

I don't see how a journalist can overcome an owner. After all, the owner provides the 'bread and butter' a journalist needs to survive.

Somehow the media has obtained an exclusion from Sherman Anti-trust Laws. This exclusion needs to be removed and the corporations force to spin-off enough media outlets to open free information gathering and publishing.

Yes, concentrated corporate ownership of the media is keeping the citizens uninformed on what their government is doing. America definatly needs freedom of the press to insure an informed citizenry.

[bluestateguy]

11. I know. I hate to say it..

I said this months ago, and it made a lot of people angry, but the tragic fact is that Americans simply could care less about Iraqi civillian casulties. I bet even if 1 million civillians were killed it wouldn't make a difference. But when All-American boys start coming home in body bags, support for the war will collapse, which is what is happening now.

[joycep]

12. I do not put her life over anyone else's

I really don't think that is the point at all. I am very glad this is making the headlines now. It just calls attention to the treachery of the WH. We are accused daily of being guilty of treason and we see who the treasonous people are very plainly here.

[radfringe]

13. from a historical perspective

it only took one little break-in at Watergate, couple of lines in a police log to start a ball rolling that brought down Nixon

Also, don't look at this as one little isolated story - it's all connected to the fact that the whistleass lied

Outing a CIA agent is just one of the dots

[shance]

15. I agree. This is a big deal and this needs to be addressed BIG time

I guess we all want things to be a certain way and the reality is not always as clear.

I wrote this last night when I was looking at everything and from the whole perspective and the entire war, things that should be recognized for so long havent been, and I think thats where I was. This deserves high priority in some ways more than other situations because overall of the people that will be affected. It is not one isolated case. It affects many.

[UTUSN]

14. It's One Facet of the Whole, Not Either-Or

You say that you are "very grateful that it is receiving the attention it well deserves."---------yet you immediately take the LEAP that,---------"And yet, if CIA lives are that much more important and of value than the innocent kids and Iraqis...." So DO you want it to have the attention or NOT?

Why take that leap and tie yourself and our cause up in knots? Look at it simply as a precipitating event for exposing the scoundrels and ONE ROUTE to making a case.