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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:17 PM
Original message
Can We Please Have A DU HIstory Lesson On Iran-Contra? >
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 10:46 PM by Stephanie



burythehatchet brought this up in another thread - and I have forgotten a lot of what went on then. Are there comparisons between that scandal and this? I know many of the same players are involved. What were their tactics then? How did they fight prosecution? burythehatchet recalls that they used Congressional hearings to provide immunity to key players.

Calling for an Iran-Contra discussion, please!


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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. im interested as well
i remember trying to follow the "inquisition" but i had just given birth and it soured my milk to watch/listen.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Consortiumnews is a good place to start
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Nah, I just want DU'ers to tell us stories
It's more fun that way.
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
159. I had forgotten about that website, thanks for posting. It seems I have
6 or 7 favorites I read daily and unfortunately omit sites like that one. Thanks again!
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Iran-Contra Affair
Iran-Contra Affair
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
(Redirected from Iran contra)

The Iran-Contra Affair (also known as "Irangate") was a mid-1980s political scandal in the United States. President Ronald Reagan's administration sold arms to Iran, an avowed enemy. At the time, Americans were being held hostage by Islamic terrorists in Lebanon, and it was hoped that Iran would influence the terrorists to release the hostages; at the same time, Iran, which was in the midst of the Iran-Iraq War, could find few nations willing to supply it with weapons. The U.S. diverted proceeds from the sale to the Contras, anti-Communist guerrillas engaged in an insurgency against the Marxist Sandinista government of Nicaragua. Both the sale of weapons and the funding of the Contras violated stated administration policy as well as legislation passed by the Democratic-controlled Congress, which had blocked further Contra funding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thank you. It's very hard to summarize concisely!
There were so many angles to it.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. I thought the hostages were being held in the embassy
in Tehran. Terry Anderson was kidnapped and held in Lebanon. :shrug:
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #22
92. If you use logic, you'll never get there, Bare Nekkid Lib
Now put some damn clothes on. There's nuns in the next room.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #92
117. Buck up, Bucky
those are my sisters
;)
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
55. WTF? "...Contras, anti-Communist guerrillas..." Bullshit.
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 07:43 AM by SpiralHawk
How about Republican stooges.

That part of the entry is propaganda.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #55
75. It's Wikipedia
and anyone can write anything they want or edit what's in it...

Want Reagan to have fought alongside the contras wearing pearl-handled pistols while riding his horse Prickly Pete? All it takes is a few clicks of the mouse, and it can be there for days or even weeks (depending on when the next person visits)...
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
100. This is all screwed up
A quick synopsis of Iran-Contra:

A group of Iranians led by Ruhollah Khomeini overthrew the US-installed Shah of Iran and seized US Embassy Teheran.

The US President at the time, Jimmy Carter, had the military attempt to get them back. Unfortunately, this mission failed.

His Republican challenger, Ronald Reagan, campaigned in part because he said he had "a plan" to get the hostages back and Carter did not. What we didn't know at the time was that the "plan" involved sending vice-presidential candidate Poppy Bush to Iran to negotiate an arms deal if Iran would only hold the hostages until after Reagan was inaugurated.

So Reagan was inaugurated and the hostages came home. We kept our word fairly well and sold a lot of guns to Iran. As Iran was a declared Enemy of the United States, this act of providing aid to them exactly meets the constitutional declaration of treason. (All y'all screaming about how outing Valerie Plame is treason shoulda been around when our president was committing real acts of treason.)

In 1985, the US had Israel ship Hawk missiles to Iran to attempt to convince Iran to help get some Americans who were being held in Lebanon freed. (I have heard rumors that Iran was pissed because the Israelis sent them Hawk missiles, not Improved Hawk missiles, and did a terrorist attack against the US in retaliation. IIRC it was Pan Am 103, but can't find anything about this. However, it would make sense.)

The US used the money from the weapons sale to fund the Nicaraguan Contras. Contras were the insurgents fighting against the Sandinistas, who had overthrown the US-backed dictator Somoza. (And then Daniel Ortega, leader of the Sandinistas, turned out to be even worse than Somoza and a communist besides.)

Why this was a scandal: lots of stonewalling, plus both aiding the Iranians and aiding the Contras was against US law.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #100
120. Ortega worse than Somoza?? I think this is Reagan propaganda
he may have been a communist, was I believe, a socialist....he didn't do everything the US said, SOOOOOO he was officially an enemy

at least one person in his govt was a Catholic priest from the Liberation Theology wing

Liberation Theology looked at society from the bottom and was very strong in Central and South America....it was viewed by many Catholics and Protestants as a necessary breath of fresh air (back to the NT!!!!).......eventually the last pope condemned it
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #120
136. He is not worse, but he is certainly very bad...
Somoza wins hands down, but Ortega is a big time corrupt... the two major parties in Nicaragua have only benefited a very few influential leaders who are very unpopular, and that includes Ortega.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #136
139. This, however, was not how he was sold originally
He was supposed to be the great savior of the Nicaraguan people. After all, he was leading the charge to run Somoza off--and we all knew what a fuckhead Somoza was.

Then we get a Sandinista government, and Ortega shut down the savior act and turned into a generic communist dictator.

I guess my comment about "worse than Somoza" was based on knowing that when he was fighting Somoza, he was billed as a good guy.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #139
141. "Generic Communist dictator"?
What, did the Sandinistas divide up your family's coffee plantation or something?
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #141
156. LOL
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 07:18 AM by Jose Diablo
"What, did the Sandinistas divide up your family's coffee plantation or something?"

I was wondering the same thing myself, like how did the Chiquita Banana Company fit into all this stuff, you know the United Fruit Company. They had vast tracts of land that was 'redistributed' to the peasants, that makes the 'communist dictator' pretty evil I guess.

The nuns and priests that were executed by Negropontes death squads, those nuns were pretty bad too, huh?

Throwing around 'communist' labels, more or less, identifies Reagan's real agenda, and that agenda was corporate money and globalists stealing from people. Thanks Ronnie, I hope you're rotting in hell.

Lydia, you're comment about the coffee plantation is right on the mark.

Edit: Oh, Ronnie, I also hope your stalwart friend and partner GHW and his misbegotten sons will be joining you soon and that fat slug of a wife of his too.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #156
162. Is this the deal where Ollie North could shred fast enough - needed
the help from the babe to make documents/files disappear??
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #100
140. Worse than Somoza? Not even!
John Negroponte (remember him?) was the source of much of the black propaganda directed against Nicaragua. He planted newspaper articles of anti-Semitic policies on the part of the Sandinistas, for example,--totally false.

I don't have time to tell you the whole shameful story of the Reagan administration's policies in Central America, but the Sandinistas were more sinned against than sinners.

When they were voted out in 1990, it was because the country had been beset by the Contras for eight years and people were exhausted and utterly impoverished. Bush Sr. strongly hinted that if the Nicaraguans voted "correctly," the war would stop.

The opposition won narrowly. Journalists who were on the scene reported that there were no celebrations when the results were announced. People were simply very quiet.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #100
146. You forgot the little tidbit about the Iranians releasing the
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 02:50 AM by merh
hostages on the very day that St. Raygun was inaugurated. Yes, boys and girls, St. Raygun was so powerful that the day he took his oath of office, the Iranians shook in their boots and released the hostages.

January 20, 1981, the day the hostages were freed, the day our nation was imprisioned by the repukes and the day my mother began her captivity, as a prisoner of a brain tumor. I'll never forget that date or the irony of it all.



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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
114. The post was qualified as sourcing Wiki
just a cut and paste y'all...

:shrug:


I forgot to include the following disclaimer:


The views expressed in wikipedia do not necessarily reflect those of the poster or the DU community.

:hide:
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
6.  a short recap
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 10:41 PM by Pithy Cherub
Because Congress cut off funding for the Contras, the NSC through Ollie North set up funds with the CIA to pay the Contras subverting the law that Congress passed. The Secretary of State (Schultz) HATED the Secretary of Defense Weinberger and was left out of the loop. meanwhile the NSA (National Security Advisor) let North run the covert op from the WH. The Vice President, who formerly was the Director of the CIA was present at NSC meetings as a principal when some of this was discussed. C. Boyden Grey was the White House counsel at that time. Bob Dole in the Senate helped to make the immunity deals by setting up the special commitee. Dole used his office to help the president.

Are you freaked yet! There is more.

Firewall, by Lawrence Walsh is a great resource.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sooo much to tell, but I'll give you a tidbit - they are all back!
All the criminals from those days. Even the pardoned ones. Even the "Death Squad" ones. And most have been promoted.

John "Death Squad" Negroponte - brought back from wherever his lair is to inflict more death in Baghdad. Now he is watching over all us American citizens here in the US as our "Nat'l Security Czar" - isn't that comforting??

Ahhh...that reminds me of The School of the Americas, back when the CIA and the WH were still good buddies...and so much more reminiscing to be had....

but, that's it for now kiddos, 'cuz I am about to be sick.

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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
150. Yes, they are all back. They were all back in December 2000 when Bush
jr. stood in front of us allsurrounded by his new "cabinent" and promised to bring back integrity and honor to this nation.

I knew then we were in for a world of hurt. Everyone from Iran-Contra surrounded him that day. I looked to my husband and said we are going to war.

Silly me, I thought they were going for Columbia. Whoops. I had not read enough yet.

Bastards, one and all.

The Bush family are a criminal family. Sorry. The Bush family is bad news for us all. Always has been, always will be, until "we the people" decide to eliminate them from the military/industry/government complex they wield power over.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. Once upon a time....
Jimmy Carter was President. Iran took our citizens hostage for 444 days. Ronald Reagan took office and the hostages were released almost immediately. Reagan said he would never negotiate with "terrorists".

Ollie North and Robert McFarland took a cake to the Ayatollah, with a Bible in it. They sold weapons to these terrorists and took the proceeds and bought weapons for the Contras, terrorists who were fighting the Communists in Nicaragua and El Salvador. They were mostly operating out of Honduras and funneling arms to the Contras. Rumors were that they were also funneling cocaine back to this country.

Reagan was put under oath and he said he knew nothing about the Iran-Contra connection. His VP, George Bush, Sr, said he was out of the loop. His son, made several trips down to Central America when his Dad was president. Nobody knows if he was on a weapons or a cocaine run.

Democrats were in control of Congress and refused Reagan the funds to give to the Contras so they could prevent the Communists from coming across our southern border and invading our country. Ollie North put on his Marine uniform and stood defiantly and proud, in front of the Democratic-run committees that were holding the hearings on the scandal. He became a hero of the right-wing.

North and Fawn Hall destroyed documents all night or until the shredder tore up and then they smuggled documents out of the White House under their clothes. Nobody was ever really held accountable.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Fawn Hall!
OMG you bring it all back. Thanks for that portrait. God it was all so BIZARRE. But, is it any more bizarre than what we've seen the last five years?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. lol! Her face and HAIR just flashed in front of me! And North, then
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:05 PM by OmmmSweetOmmm
is so clear in my minds eye too. Arrogant bastard.

One thing that isn't touched on in the summaries that I provided was speculation of drug trafficking to finance the Contras. There had been reports of an airfield in Arkansas being used to bring cocaine into the country. There is even speculation that * and Clinton were involved with that.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
81. Somehow Crack Cocaine just mysteriously showed up in LA at that time
Crack the garbage freebase cocaine. Cocaine cut with baking soda was created to sell extremely cheap to the Blacks in the inner cities. What a plan. If you look at it it is extremely brillient. Get blacks hooked on a cheap drug both for the high and the easy money drug dealing held and then busting the blacks for felony charges so they could never vote again. The Republican congress also got the laws changed so that a gram of Crack was a felony where a gram of Cocaine was only a misdemeanor. Rich white kids (Bush*) got the good stuff without much penalty while poor blacks got the shaft all the way around. From their point of view this was a plan of exceptional brillience. It addressed a whole bunch of their issues at once. They got blacks to make the money for them to send to the contras while at the same time giving them the crack baby soundbite and the complete plunder of black communities. These people are litterly the absolute scum of the earth. That the CIA brought in tons of cocaine from South America has been documented. What they did with it has not.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #81
88. And let's all try to guess who has control of the record opium crops
in Afghanistan........
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #88
91. Only two options:
{1} Bad guys: they control the opium for evil purposes.
{2} Good guys: they control it for the right's reasons.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #91
93. That depends on one's interpretation of whom the bad and good guys are.
Personally, I think they are one and the same.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #93
94. And I would
fully agree.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #81
121. Gary Webb wrote a series on the crack connection to the CIA
series ran in the San Jose Mercury....at first it was 'great'; then national media attacked him and got him fired.....Webb recently committed 'suicide'
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #121
133. Gary Webb’s “Dark Alliance” Returns to the Internet
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #81
137. Reagan's two big cultural legacies
are the infomercial and crack.

Ronald Reagan's FCC invented the infomercial by repealing the rule that says a televised advertisement for one product could be no more than fifteen minutes long.

Crack we all know about.

I don't think Reagan's goal in the crack thing was to disenfranchise the black (and Latin) community through massive numbers of felony convictions. I think his goal was to have them kill each other off.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
142. Crack cocaine and the imprisoning of a large portion of a generation
also hampered community activism in the black neighborhoods.

It was really suspicious how all that crack appeared all of a sudden. I think it was in Boyz in the Hood that one of the characters notes that no one in the ghetto had the internatonal connections needed to start the crack cocaine trade.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
95. Official FAWN HALL White House portrait
She just can't stay away from Republican rackets.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Carter / Reagan / hostages / election / "OCTOBER SURPRISE"
This is one of the best articles I've seen on the original October Surprise:

Bush's Impending Watergate
By Harvey Wasserman
originally published on May 23, 1991

http://old.valleyadvocate.com/25th/archives/bushs_watergate.html

George Bush should be impeached. Whether he will be impeached depends on the intestinal fortitude of Congress. But the evidence is clearly sufficient to begin proceedings.

snip

The circumstances are worth repeating: On November 4, 1979, radical Iranian students seized some 55 American citizens and began a crisis that lasted until the moment Ronald Reagan was inaugurated as president 444 days later.

snip

But by October of 1980, one thing was clear: If the hostages were released prior to the election, Carter would be re-elected. If not, Ronald Reagan would win. All major polls -- including one by the primary Republican pollster, Richard Wirthlin -- showed a 10 percent swing on just that issue.

In early October, word spread through the world media that Carter had negotiated a deal for the hostages' release. It was widely believed that he had agreed to unfreeze some $4 billion in assets claimed by the deposed Shah, and to supply spare parts to the American-made arms inherited by the Ayatollah Khomeini's revolutionary regime. The hostages were due home by mid-October, in ample time to assure Carter's re-election.

Then, mysteriously, the deal was off. The hostages weren't coming home after all. What happened?

snip

But two years later, Barbara Honegger, a member of the Reagan campaign team, angrily left the White House staff, leveling charges of sexual discrimination. She then asserted that during the 1980 campaign a special "October Surprise" Committee had operated with a mandate that appeared focused on sabotaging Carter's arrangements and guaranteeing that the hostages remain in Teheran until after the 1980 election.

Honegger claimed no direct proof, but she recalled being told that the hostages would not be coming home because October Surprise Committee member Richard Allen (later chief of Reagan's National Security Council) had "cut a deal" to keep them in Teheran. Future CIA director William Casey may have masterminded the sabotage, Honegger said.

snip

Just prior to the election, a self-proclaimed former CIA operative named Richard Brenneke claimed to have personally flown Bush to Paris to negotiate the deal. Producers from CBS' 60 Minutes were preparing a feature on Brenneke, who was in jail in Colorado, when questions about his credibility were raised and the feature was canceled. The Miami Herald, Los Angeles Times, Boston Globe and other major publications carried stories concluding there was insufficient evidence to confirm or deny the deal occurred.

-- much more --
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Some wild and crazy October Surprise links
Who is Jim Moore? Part Seven
CAMPAIGN 1980 & THE IRAN-CONTRA AFFAIR
©2002 by Jim Moore
(John Anderson, R. Secord, Ollie North -- quoting the above article)
http://www.geocities.com/omegareport/Authors/04-Moore-g.htm


INSLAW, OCtober Surprise, many other articles by Henry V. Martin
http://www.american-buddha.com/napa.sentinel.htm#THE%20NAPA%20SENTINEL

This one will curl your hair:
ex-President Carter's Operation Desert Claw sabotaged?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=629531#631588

"Only Christian soldier is a good soldier" by Lt. Gen (R) James Vaught
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=638484#638554

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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
43. The smuggling of cocaine
I was believe has been pretty well substantiated. I don't have a link but I do recall the tie-in to the beginning of the crack epidemic in LA.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. In fact
it resulted in the creation of crack, which allowed low-income folks to consume signficant quantities of a drug previously considered the rightful property of the "beautiful people." There is no serious debate that the Iran-Contra scandals were funded in large part by the introduction of cocaine to inner-cities.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #51
147. And during the admin a junior congressman with a law
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 03:06 AM by merh
enforcement background who hated drugs (he perceived himself as a Bufford Pusser type) and drug trafficking was killed in a small plane crash just after he purported meet with an informant that had told him of the WH connections to the drug trade.

:shrug: Shit happens! :scared:

Edit: He was killed in '89 -- http://www.internetpirate.com/airplane.htm
http://www.nogw.com/articles/plane_crashes.html




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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Here's a good summary for you.
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/execsum.htm

Executive Summary

In October and November 1986, two secret U.S. Government operations were publicly exposed, potentially implicating Reagan Administration officials in illegal activities. These operations were the provision of assistance to the military activities of the Nicaraguan contra rebels during an October 1984 to October 1986 prohibition on such aid, and the sale of U.S. arms to Iran in contravention of stated U.S. policy and in possible violation of arms-export controls. In late November 1986, Reagan Administration officials announced that some of the proceeds from the sale of U.S. arms to Iran had been diverted to the contras.

As a result of the exposure of these operations, Attorney General Edwin Meese III sought the appointment of an independent counsel to investigate and, if necessary, prosecute possible crimes arising from them.

The Special Division of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit appointed Lawrence E. Walsh as Independent Counsel on December 19, 1986, and charged him with investigating:

(1) the direct or indirect sale, shipment, or transfer since in or about 1984 down to the present, of military arms, materiel, or funds to the government of Iran, officials of that government, persons, organizations or entities connected with or purporting to represent that government, or persons located in Iran;

(2) the direct or indirect sale, shipment, or transfer of military arms, materiel or funds to any government, entity, or person acting, or purporting to act as an intermediary in any transaction referred to above;

(3) the financing or funding of any direct or indirect sale, shipment or transfer referred to above;

(4) the diversion of proceeds from any transaction described above to or for any person, organization, foreign government, or any faction or body of insurgents in any foreign country, including, but not limited to Nicaragua;

(5) the provision or coordination of support for persons or entities engaged as military insurgents in armed conflict with the government of Nicaragua since 1984.

This is the final report of that investigation.

Overall Conclusions
The investigations and prosecutions have shown that high-ranking Administration officials violated laws and executive orders in the Iran/contra matter.

Independent Counsel concluded that:

-- the sales of arms to Iran contravened United States Government policy and may have violated the Arms Export Control Act1

1 Independent Counsel is aware that the Reagan Administration Justice Department took the position, after the November 1986 revelations, that the 1985 shipments of United States weapons to Iran did not violate the law. This post hoc position does not correspond with the contemporaneous advice given the President. As detailed within this report, Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger (a lawyer with an extensive record in private practice and the former general counsel of the Bechtel Corporation) advised President Reagan in 1985 that the shipments were illegal. Moreover, Weinberger's opinion was shared by attorneys within the Department of Defense and the White House counsel's office once they became aware of the 1985 shipments. Finally, when Attorney General Meese conducted his initial inquiry into the Iran arms sales, he expressed concern that the shipments may have been illegal.

-- the provision and coordination of support to the contras violated the Boland Amendment ban on aid to military activities in Nicaragua;

-- the policies behind both the Iran and contra operations were fully reviewed and developed at the highest levels of the Reagan Administration;

-- although there was little evidence of National Security Council level knowledge of most of the actual contra-support operations, there was no evidence that any NSC member dissented from the underlying policy -- keeping the contras alive despite congressional limitations on contra support;

-- the Iran operations were carried out with the knowledge of, among others, President Ronald Reagan, Vice President George Bush, Secretary of State George P. Shultz, Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger, Director of Central Intelligence William J. Casey, and national security advisers Robert C. McFarlane and John M. Poindexter; of these officials, only Weinberger and Shultz dissented from the policy decision, and Weinberger eventually acquiesced by ordering the Department of Defense to provide the necessary arms; and

-- large volumes of highly relevant, contemporaneously created documents were systematically and willfully withheld from investigators by several Reagan Administration officials.

-- following the revelation of these operations in October and November 1986, Reagan Administration officials deliberately deceived the Congress and the public about the level and extent of official knowledge of and support for these operations.

In addition, Independent Counsel concluded that the off-the-books nature of the Iran and contra operations gave line-level personnel the opportunity to commit money crimes.


The Basic Facts of Iran/contra

The Iran/contra affair concerned two secret Reagan Administration policies whose operations were coordinated by National Security Council staff. The Iran operation involved efforts in 1985 and 1986 to obtain the release of Americans held hostage in the Middle East through the sale of U.S. weapons to Iran, despite an embargo on such sales. The contra operations from 1984 through most of 1986 involved the secret governmental support of contra military and paramilitary activities in Nicaragua, despite congressional prohibition of this support.

The Iran and contra operations were merged when funds generated from the sale of weapons to Iran were diverted to support the contra effort in Nicaragua. Although this ``diversion'' may be the most dramatic aspect of Iran/contra, it is important to emphasize that both the Iran and contra operations, separately, violated United States policy and law.2 The ignorance of the ``diversion'' asserted by President Reagan and his Cabinet officers on the National Security Council in no way absolves them of responsibility for the underlying Iran and contra operations.

2 See n. 1 above.

The secrecy concerning the Iran and contra activities was finally pierced by events that took place thousands of miles apart in the fall of 1986. The first occurred on October 5, 1986, when Nicaraguan government soldiers shot down an American cargo plane that was carrying military supplies to contra forces; the one surviving crew member, American Eugene Hasenfus, was taken into captivity and stated that he was employed by the CIA. A month after the Hasenfus shootdown, President Reagan's secret sale of U.S. arms to Iran was reported by a Lebanese publication on November 3. The joining of these two operations was made public on November 25, 1986, when Attorney General Meese announced that Justice Department officials had discovered that some of the proceeds from the Iran arms sales had been diverted to the contras.

When these operations ended, the exposure of the Iran/contra affair generated a new round of illegality. Beginning with the testimony of Elliott Abrams and others in October 1986 and continuing through the public testimony of Caspar W. Weinberger on the last day of the congressional hearings in the summer of 1987, senior Reagan Administration officials engaged in a concerted effort to deceive Congress and the public about their knowledge of and support for the operations.

Independent Counsel has concluded that the President's most senior advisers and the Cabinet members on the National Security Council participated in the strategy to make National Security staff members McFarlane, Poindexter and North the scapegoats whose sacrifice would protect the Reagan Administration in its final two years. In an important sense, this strategy succeeded. Independent Counsel discovered much of the best evidence of the cover-up in the final year of active investigation, too late for most prosecutions.


Scope of Report

This report provides an account of the Independent Counsel's investigation, the prosecutions, the basis for decisions not to prosecute, and overall observations and conclusions on the Iran/contra matters.

Part I of the report sets out the underlying facts of the Iran and contra operations. Part II describes the criminal investigation of those underlying facts. Part III provides an analysis of the central operational conspiracy. Parts IV through IX are agency-level reports of Independent Counsel's investigations and cases: the National Security staff, the private operatives who assisted the NSC staff, Central Intelligence Agency officials, Department of State officials, and White House officials and Attorney General Edwin Meese III.

Volume I of this report concludes with a chapter concerning political oversight and the rule of law, and a final chapter containing Independent Counsel's observations. Volume II of the report contains supporting documentation. Volume III is a classified appendix.

Because many will read only sections of the report, each has been written with completeness, even though this has resulted in repetition of factual statements about central activities.


The Operational Conspiracy

The operational conspiracy was the basis for Count One of the 23-count indictment returned by the Grand Jury March 16, 1988, against Poindexter, North, Secord, and Hakim. It charged the four with conspiracy to defraud the United States by deceitfully:

(1) supporting military operations in Nicaragua in defiance of congressional controls;

(2) using the Iran arms sales to raise funds to be spent at the direction of North, rather than the U.S. Government; and

(3) endangering the Administration's hostage-release effort by overcharging Iran for the arms to generate unauthorized profits to fund the contras and for other purposes.

The charge was upheld as a matter of law by U.S. District Judge Gerhard A. Gesell even though the Justice Department, in a move that Judge Gesell called ``unprecedented,'' filed an amicus brief supporting North's contention that the charge should be dismissed. Although Count One was ultimately dismissed because the Reagan Administration refused to declassify information necessary to North's defense, Judge Gesell's decision established that high Government officials who engage in conspiracy to subvert civil laws and the Constitution have engaged in criminal acts. Trial on Count One would have disclosed the Government-wide activities that supported North's Iran and contra operations.

Within the NSC, McFarlane pleaded guilty in March 1988 to four counts of withholding information from Congress in connection with his denials that North was providing the contras with military advice and assistance. McFarlane, in his plea agreement, promised to cooperate with Independent Counsel by providing truthful testimony in subsequent trials.

Judge Gesell ordered severance of the trials of the four charged in the conspiracy indictment because of the immunized testimony given by Poindexter, North and Hakim to Congress. North was tried and convicted by a jury in May 1989 of altering and destroying documents, accepting an illegal gratuity and aiding and abetting in the obstruction of Congress. His conviction was reversed on appeal in July 1990 and charges against North were subsequently dismissed in September 1991 on the ground that trial witnesses were tainted by North's nationally televised, immunized testimony before Congress. Poindexter in April 1990 was convicted by a jury on five felony counts of conspiracy, false statements, destruction and removal of records and obstruction of Congress. The Court of Appeals reversed his conviction in November 1991 on the immunized testimony issue.


The Flow of Funds

The illegal activities of the private citizens involved with the North and Secord operations are discussed in detail in Part V. The off-the-books conduct of the two highly secret operations circumvented normal Administration accountability and congressional oversight associated with covert ventures and presented fertile ground for financial wrongdoing. There were several funding sources for the contras' weapons purchases from the covert-action Enterprise formed by North, Secord and Hakim:

(1) donations from foreign countries;

(2) contributions from wealthy Americans sympathetic to President Reagan's contra support policies; and

(3) the diversion of proceeds from the sale of arms to Iran.

Ultimately, all of these funds fell under the control of North, and through him, Secord and Hakim.

North used political fundraisers Carl R. Channell and Richard R. Miller to raise millions of dollars from wealthy Americans, illegally using a tax-exempt organization to do so. These funds, along with the private contributions, were run through a network of corporations and Swiss bank accounts put at North's disposal by Secord and Hakim, through which transactions were concealed and laundered. In late 1985 through 1986 the Enterprise became centrally involved in the arms sales to Iran. As a result of both the Iran and contra operations, more than $47 million flowed through Enterprise accounts.

Professional fundraisers Channell and Miller pleaded guilty in the spring of 1987 to conspiracy to defraud the Government by illegal use of a tax-exempt foundation to raise contributions for the purchase of lethal supplies for the contras. They named North as an unindicted co-conspirator.

Secord pleaded guilty in November 1989 to a felony, admitting that he falsely denied to Congress that North had personally benefited from the Enterprise. Hakim pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor count of supplementing the salary of North. Lake Resources Inc., the company controlled by Hakim to launder the Enterprise's money flow, pleaded guilty to the corporate felony of theft of Government property in diverting the proceeds from the arms sales to the contras and for other unauthorized purposes. Thomas G. Clines was convicted in September 1990 of four tax-related felonies for failing to report all of his income from the Enterprise.


Agency Support of the Operations

Following the convictions of those who were most central to the Iran/contra operations, Independent Counsel's investigation focused on the supporting roles played by Government officials in other agencies and the supervisory roles of the NSC principals. The investigation showed that Administration officials who claimed initially that they had little knowledge about the Iran arms sales or the illegal contra-resupply operation North directed were much better informed than they professed to be. The Office of Independent Counsel obtained evidence that Secretaries Weinberger and Shultz and White House Chief of Staff Donald T. Regan, among others, held back information that would have helped Congress obtain a much clearer view of the scope of the Iran/contra matter. Contemporaneous notes of Regan and Weinberger, and those dictated by Shultz, were withheld until they were obtained by Independent Counsel in 1991 and 1992.


The White House and Office of the Vice President
As the White House section of this report describes in detail, the investigation found no credible evidence that President Reagan violated any criminal statute. The OIC could not prove that Reagan authorized or was aware of the diversion or that he had knowledge of the extent of North's control of the contra-resupply network. Nevertheless, he set the stage for the illegal activities of others by encouraging and, in general terms, ordering support of the contras during the October 1984 to October 1986 period when funds for the contras were cut off by the Boland Amendment, and in authorizing the sale of arms to Iran, in contravention of the U.S. embargo on such sales. The President's disregard for civil laws enacted to limit presidential actions abroad -- specifically the Boland Amendment, the Arms Export Control Act and congressional-notification requirements in covert-action laws -- created a climate in which some of the Government officers assigned to implement his policies felt emboldened to circumvent such laws.

President Reagan's directive to McFarlane to keep the contras alive ``body and soul'' during the Boland cut-off period was viewed by North, who was charged by McFarlane to carry out the directive, as an invitation to break the law. Similarly, President Reagan's decision in 1985 to authorize the sale of arms to Iran from Israeli stocks, despite warnings by Weinberger and Shultz that such transfers might violate the law, opened the way for Poindexter's subsequent decision to authorize the diversion. Poindexter told Congress that while he made the decision on his own and did not tell the President, he believed the President would have approved. North testified that he believed the President authorized it.

Independent Counsel's investigation did not develop evidence that proved that Vice President Bush violated any criminal statute. Contrary to his public pronouncements, however, he was fully aware of the Iran arms sales. Bush was regularly briefed, along with the President, on the Iran arms sales, and he participated in discussions to obtain third-country support for the contras. The OIC obtained no evidence that Bush was aware of the diversion. The OIC learned in December 1992 that Bush had failed to produce a diary containing contemporaneous notes relevant to Iran/contra, despite requests made in 1987 and again in early 1992 for the production of such material. Bush refused to be interviewed for a final time in light of evidence developed in the latter stages of OIC's investigation, leaving unresolved a clear picture of his Iran/contra involvement. Bush's pardon of Weinberger on December 24, 1992 pre-empted a trial in which defense counsel indicated that they intended to call Bush as a witness.

The chapters on White House Chief of Staff Regan and Attorney General Edwin Meese III focus on their actions during the November 1986 period, as the President and his advisers sought to control the damage caused by the disclosure of the Iran arms sales. Regan in 1992 provided Independent Counsel with copies of notes showing that Poindexter and Meese attempted to create a false account of the 1985 arms sales from Israeli stocks, which they believed were illegal, in order to protect the President. Regan and the other senior advisers did not speak up to correct the false version of events. No final legal determination on the matter had been made. Regan said he did not want to be the one who broke the silence among the President's senior advisers, virtually all of whom knew the account was false.

The evidence indicates that Meese's November 1986 inquiry was more of a damage-control exercise than an effort to find the facts. He had private conversations with the President, the Vice President, Poindexter, Weinberger, Casey and Regan without taking notes. Even after learning of the diversion, Meese failed to secure records in NSC staff offices or take other prudent steps to protect potential evidence. And finally, in reporting to the President and his senior advisers, Meese gave a false account of what he had been told by stating that the President did not know about the 1985 HAWK shipments, which Meese said might have been illegal. The statute of limitations had run on November 1986 activities before OIC obtained its evidence. In 1992, Meese denied recollection of the statements attributed to him by the notes of Weinberger and Regan. He was unconvincing, but the passage of time would have been expected to raise a reasonable doubt of the intentional falsity of his denials if he had been prosecuted for his 1992 false statements.


The Role of CIA Officials

Director Casey's unswerving support of President Reagan's contra policies and of the Iran arms sales encouraged some CIA officials to go beyond legal restrictions in both operations. Casey was instrumental in pairing North with Secord as a contra-support team when the Boland Amendment in October 1984 forced the CIA to refrain from direct or indirect aid. He also supported the North-Secord combination in the Iran arms sales, despite deep reservations about Secord within the CIA hierarchy.

Casey's position on the contras prompted the chief of the CIA's Central American Task Force, Alan D. Fiers, Jr., to ``dovetail'' CIA activities with those of North's contra-resupply network, in violation of Boland restrictions. Casey's support for the NSC to direct the Iran arms sales and to use arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar and Secord in the operation, forced the CIA's Directorate of Operations to work with people it distrusted.

Following the Hasenfus shootdown in early October 1986, George and Fiers lied to Congress about U.S. Government involvement in contra resupply, to, as Fiers put it, ``keep the spotlight off the White House.'' When the Iran arms sales became public in November 1986, three of Casey's key officers -- George, Clarridge and Fiers -- followed Casey's lead in misleading Congress.

Four CIA officials were charged with criminal offenses -- George, the deputy director for operations and the third highest-ranking CIA official; Clarridge, chief of the European Division; Fiers; and Fernandez. George was convicted of two felony counts of false statements and perjury before Congress. Fiers pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of withholding information from Congress. The four counts of obstruction and false statements against Fernandez were dismissed when the Bush Administration refused to declassify information needed for his defense. Clarridge was awaiting trial on seven counts of perjury and false statements when he, George and Fiers were pardoned by President Bush.


State Department Officials

In 1990 and 1991, Independent Counsel received new documentary evidence in the form of handwritten notes suggesting that Secretary Shultz's congressional testimony painted a misleading and incorrect picture of his knowledge of the Iran arms sales. The subsequent investigation focused on whether Shultz or other Department officials deliberately misled or withheld information from congressional or OIC investigators.

The key notes, taken by M. Charles Hill, Shultz's executive assistant, were nearly verbatim, contemporaneous accounts of Shultz's meetings within the department and Shultz's reports to Hill on meetings the secretary attended elsewhere. The Hill notes and similarly detailed notes by Nicholas Platt, the State Department's executive secretary, provided the OIC with a detailed account of Shultz's knowledge of the Iran arms sales. The most revealing of these notes were not provided to any Iran/contra investigation until 1990 and 1991. The notes show that -- contrary to his early testimony that he was not aware of details of the 1985 arms transfers -- Shultz knew that the shipments were planned and that they were delivered. Also in conflict with his congressional testimony was evidence that Shultz was aware of the 1986 shipments.

Independent Counsel concluded that Shultz's early testimony was incorrect, if not false, in significant respects, and misleading, if literally true, in others. When questioned about the discrepancies in 1992, Shultz did not dispute the accuracy of the Hill notes. He told OIC that he believed his testimony was accurate at the time and he insisted that if he had been provided with the notes earlier, he would have testified differently. Independent Counsel declined to prosecute because there was a reasonable doubt that Shultz's testimony was willfully false at the time it was delivered.

Independent Counsel concluded that Hill had willfully withheld relevant notes and prepared false testimony for Shultz in 1987. He declined to prosecute because Hill's claim of authorization to limit the production of his notes and the joint responsibility of Shultz for the resulting misleading testimony, would at trial have raised a reasonable doubt, after Independent Counsel had declined to prosecute Shultz.

Independent Counsel's initial focus on the State Department had centered on Assistant Secretary Elliott Abrams' insistence to Congress and to the OIC that he was not aware of North's direction of the extensive contra-resupply network in 1985 and 1986. As assistant secretary of state for inter-American affairs, Abrams chaired the Restricted Inter-Agency Group, or RIG, which coordinated U.S. policy in Central America. Although the OIC was skeptical about Abrams' testimony, there was insufficient evidence to proceed against him until additional documentary evidence inculpating him was discovered in 1990 and 1991, and until Fiers, who represented the CIA on the RIG, pleaded guilty in July 1991 to withholding information from Congress. Fiers provided evidence to support North's earlier testimony that Abrams was knowledgeable about North's contra-supply network. Abrams pleaded guilty in October 1991 to two counts of withholding information from Congress about secret Government efforts to support the contras, and about his solicitation of $10 million to aid the contras from the Sultan of Brunei.


Secretary Weinberger and Defense Department Officials

Contrary to their testimony to the presidentially appointed Tower Commission and the Select Iran/contra Committees of Congress, Independent Counsel determined that Secretary Weinberger and his closest aides were consistently informed of proposed and actual arms shipments to Iran during 1985 and 1986. The key evidence was handwritten notes of Weinberger, which he deliberately withheld from Congress and the OIC until they were discovered by Independent Counsel in late 1991. The Weinberger daily diary notes and notes of significant White House and other meetings contained highly relevant, contemporaneous information that resolved many questions left unanswered in early investigations.

The notes demonstrated that Weinberger's early testimony -- that he had only vague and generalized information about Iran arms sales in 1985 -- was false, and that he in fact had detailed information on the proposed arms sales and the actual deliveries. The notes also revealed that Gen. Colin Powell, Weinberger's senior military aide, and Richard L. Armitage, assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, also had detailed knowledge of the 1985 shipments from Israeli stocks. Armitage and Powell had testified that they did not learn of the November 1985 HAWK missile shipment until 1986.

Weinberger's notes provided detailed accounts of high-level Administration meetings in November 1986 in which the President's senior advisers were provided with false accounts of the Iran arms sales to protect the President and themselves from the consequences of the possibly illegal 1985 shipments from Israeli stocks.

Weinberger's notes provided key evidence supporting the charges against him, including perjury and false statements in connection with his testimony regarding the arms sales, his denial of the existence of notes and his denial of knowledge of Saudi Arabia's multi-million dollar contribution to the contras. He was pardoned less than two weeks before trial by President Bush on December 24, 1992.

There was little evidence that Powell's early testimony regarding the 1985 shipments and Weinberger's notes was willfully false. Powell cooperated with the various Iran/contra investigations and, when his recollection was refreshed by Weinberger's notes, he readily conceded their accuracy. Independent Counsel declined to prosecute Armitage because the OIC's limited resources were focused on the case against Weinberger and because the evidence against Armitage, while substantial, did not reach the threshold of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.


The Reagan, Bush and Casey Segments

The Independent Counsel Act requires a report as to persons not indicted as well as those indicted. Because of the large number of persons investigated, those discussed in individual sections of this report are limited to those as to whom there was a possibility of indictment. In addition there are separate sections on President Reagan and President Bush because, although criminal proceedings against them were always unlikely, they were important subjects of the investigation, and their activities were important to the action taken with respect to others.

CIA Director Casey is a special case. Because Casey was hospitalized with a fatal illness before Independent Counsel was appointed, no formal investigation of Casey was ever undertaken by the OIC. Casey was never able to give his account, and he was unable to respond to allegations of wrongdoing made about him by others, most prominently North, whose veracity is subject to serious question. Equally important, fundamental questions could not be answered regarding Casey's state of mind, the impact, if any, of his fatal illness on his conduct and his intent.

Under normal circumstances, a prosecutor would hesitate to comment on the conduct of an individual whose activities and actions were not subjected to rigorous investigation, which might exculpate that individual. Nevertheless, after serious deliberation, Independent Counsel concluded that it was in the public interest that this report expose as full and complete an account of the Iran/contra matter as possible. This simply could not be done without an account of the role of Director Casey.


Observations and Conclusions

This report concludes with Independent Counsel's observations and conclusions. He observes that the governmental problems presented by Iran/contra are not those of rogue operations, but rather those of Executive Branch efforts to evade congressional oversight. As this report documents, the competing roles of the attorney general -- adviser to the President and top law-enforcement officer -- come into irreconcilable conflict in the case of high-level Executive Branch wrongdoing. Independent Counsel concludes that congressional oversight alone cannot correct the deficiencies that result when an attorney general abandons the law-enforcement responsibilities of that office and undertakes, instead, to protect the President.

Independent Counsel asks the Congress to review the difficult and delicate problem posed to the investigations and prosecutions by congressional grants of immunity to principals. While recognizing the important responsibility of Congress for investigating such matters thoroughly, Congress must realize that grants of use immunity to principals in such highly exposed matters as the Iran/contra affair will virtually rule out successful prosecution.

Independent Counsel also addresses the problem of implementing the Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA) in cases steeped in highly classified information, such as many of the Iran/contra prosecutions. Under the Act, the attorney general has unrestricted discretion to decide whether to declassify information necessary for trial, even in cases in which Independent Counsel has been appointed because of the attorney general's conflict of interest. This discretion is inconsistent with the perceived need for independent counsel, particularly in cases in which officers of the intelligence agencies that classify information are under investigation. This discretion gives the attorney general the power to block almost any potentially embarrassing prosecution that requires the declassification of information. Independent Counsel suggests that the attorney general implement standards that would permit independent review of a decision to block a prosecution of an officer within the Executive Branch and legitimate congressional oversight.



Classified Information

In addition to the unclassified Volumes I and II of this report, a brief classified report, Volume III, has been filed with the Special Division. The classified report contains references to material gathered in the investigation of Iran/contra that could not be declassified and could not be concealed by some substitute form of discussion.

And

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/summpros.htm

Summary of Prosecutions
After Independent Counsel Lawrence E. Walsh's appointment in December 1986, 14 persons were charged with criminal offenses. Eleven persons were convicted, but two convictions were overturned on appeal. Two persons were pardoned before trial and one case was dismissed when the Bush Administration declined to declassify information necessary for trial. On December 24, 1992, President Bush pardoned Caspar W. Weinberger, Duane R. Clarridge, Clair E. George, Elliott Abrams, Alan D. Fiers, Jr., and Robert C. McFarlane.

Completed Trials and Pleas


Elliott Abrams -- Pleaded guilty October 7, 1991, to two misdemeanor charges of withholding information from Congress about secret government efforts to support the Nicaraguan contra rebels during a ban on such aid. U.S. District Chief Judge Aubrey E. Robinson, Jr., sentenced Abrams November 15, 1991, to two years probation and 100 hours community service. Abrams was pardoned December 24, 1992.

Carl R. Channell -- Pleaded guilty April 29, 1987, to one felony count of conspiracy to defraud the United States. U.S. District Judge Stanley S. Harris sentenced Channell on July 7, 1989, to two years probation.

Thomas G. Clines -- Indicted February 22, 1990, on four felony counts of underreporting his earnings to the IRS in the 1985 and 1986 tax years; and falsely stating on his 1985 and 1986 tax returns that he had no foreign financial accounts. On September 18, 1990, Clines was found guilty of all charges. U.S. District Judge Norman P. Ramsey in Baltimore, Md., on December 13, 1990, sentenced Clines to 16 months in prison and $40,000 in fines. He was ordered to pay the cost of the prosecution. The Fourth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., on February 27, 1992, upheld the convictions. Clines served his prison sentence.

Alan D. Fiers, Jr. -- Pleaded guilty July 9, 1991, to two misdemeanor counts of withholding information from Congress about secret efforts to aid the Nicaraguan contras. U.S. District Chief Judge Aubrey E. Robinson, Jr., sentenced Fiers January 31, 1992, to one year probation and 100 hours community service. Fiers was pardoned December 24, 1992.

Clair E. George -- Indicted September 6, 1991, on 10 counts of perjury, false statements and obstruction in connection with congressional and Grand Jury investigations. George's trial on nine counts ended in a mistrial on August 26, 1992. Following a second trial on seven counts, George was found guilty December 9, 1992, of two felony charges of false statements and perjury before Congress. The maximum penalty for each count was five years in prison and $250,000 in fines. U.S. District Judge Royce C. Lamberth set sentencing for February 18, 1993. George was pardoned on December 24, 1992, before sentencing occurred.

Albert Hakim -- Pleaded guilty November 21, 1989, to a misdemeanor of supplementing the salary of Oliver L. North. Lake Resources Inc., in which Hakim was the principal shareholder, pleaded guilty to a corporate felony of theft of government property in diverting Iran arms sales proceeds to the Nicaraguan contras and other activities. Hakim was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard A. Gesell on February 1, 1990, to two years probation and a $5,000 fine; Lake Resources was ordered dissolved.

Robert C. McFarlane -- Pleaded guilty March 11, 1988, to four misdemeanor counts of withholding information from Congress. U.S. District Chief Judge Aubrey E. Robinson, Jr., sentenced McFarlane on March 3, 1989, to two years probation, $20,000 in fines and 200 hours community service. McFarlane was pardoned December 24, 1992.

Richard R. Miller -- Pleaded guilty May 6, 1987, to one felony count of conspiracy to defraud the United States. U.S. District Judge Stanley S. Harris sentenced Miller on July 6, 1989, to two years probation and 120 hours of community service.

Oliver L. North -- Indicted March 16, 1988, on 16 felony counts. After standing trial on 12, North was convicted May 4, 1989 of three charges: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents. He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard A. Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines and 1,200 hours community service. A three-judge appeals panel on July 20, 1990, vacated North's conviction for further proceedings to determine whether his immunized testimony influenced witnesses in the trial. The Supreme Court declined to review the case. Judge Gesell dismissed the case September 16, 1991, after hearings on the immunity issue, on the motion of Independent Counsel.

John M. Poindexter -- Indicted March 16, 1988, on seven felony charges. After standing trial on five charges, Poindexter was found guilty April 7, 1990, on all counts: conspiracy (obstruction of inquiries and proceedings, false statements, falsification, destruction and removal of documents); two counts of obstruction of Congress and two counts of false statements. U.S. District Judge Harold H. Greene sentenced Poindexter June 11, 1990, to six months in prison on each count, to be served concurrently. A three-judge appeals panel on November 15, 1991, reversed the convictions on the ground that Poindexter's immunized testimony may have influenced the trial testimony of witnesses. The Supreme Court on December 7, 1992, declined to review the case. In 1993, the indictment was dismissed on the motion of Independent Counsel.

Richard V. Secord -- Indicted March 16, 1988 on six felony charges. On May 11, 1989, a second indictment was issued charging nine counts of impeding and obstructing the Select Iran/contra Committees. Secord was scheduled to stand trial on 12 charges. He pleaded guilty November 8, 1989, to one felony count of false statements to Congress. Secord was sentenced by U.S. District Chief Judge Aubrey E. Robinson, Jr., on January 24, 1990, to two years probation.

Pre-trial Pardons


Duane R. Clarridge -- Indicted November 26, 1991, on seven counts of perjury and false statements about a secret shipment of U.S. HAWK missiles to Iran. The maximum penalty for each count was five years in prison and $250,000 in fines. U.S. District Judge Harold H. Greene set a March 15, 1993, trial date. Clarridge was pardoned December 24, 1992.

Caspar W. Weinberger -- Indicted June 16, 1992, on five counts of obstruction, perjury and false statements in connection with congressional and Independent Counsel investigations of Iran/ contra. On September 29, the obstruction count was dismissed. On October 30, a second indictment was issued, charging one false statement count. The second indictment was dismissed December 11, leaving four counts remaining. The maximum penalty for each count was five years in prison and $250,000 in fines. U.S. District Judge Thomas F. Hogan set a January 5, 1993, trial date. Weinberger was pardoned December 24, 1992.

Dismissal


Joseph F. Fernandez -- Indicted June 20, 1988 on five counts of conspiracy to defraud the United States, obstructing the inquiry of the Tower Commission and making false statements to government agencies. The case was dismissed in the District of Columbia for venue reasons on the motion of Independent Counsel. A four-count indictment was issued in the Eastern District of Virginia on April 24, 1989. U.S. District Judge Claude M. Hilton dismissed the four-count case November 24, 1989, after Attorney General Richard Thornburgh blocked the disclosure of classified information ruled relevant to the defense. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit in Richmond, Va., on September 6, 1990, upheld Judge Hilton's rulings under the Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA). On October 12, 1990, the Attorney General filed a final declaration that he would not disclose the classified information.






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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. OK I've read the first paragraph and I see a comparison - TWO scandals
We are seeing two scandals unfold at once - DSM/Traitorgate.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Actually DSM and Traitorgate are the same scandal. Lying
about the yellow cake was faking intelligence to make a case for war. Unfortunately I have heard very few people talking out about this. I believe Joe Wilson has.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
45. If you want to see another similarity
The antecedent of Iran Contra was the deal that Reagan/Bush cut with the Iranians when Carter was president. It was essentially "don't release the hostages until after the election". Can you say treason?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #45
99. The good old "October Surprise". Yes, it was treasonous. n/t
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Wow, here is a big similarity >
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:17 PM by Stephanie




When these operations ended, the exposure of the Iran/contra affair generated a new round of illegality. Beginning with the testimony of Elliott Abrams and others in October 1986 and continuing through the public testimony of Caspar W. Weinberger on the last day of the congressional hearings in the summer of 1987, senior Reagan Administration officials engaged in a concerted effort to deceive Congress and the public about their knowledge of and support for the operations.

Independent Counsel has concluded that the President's most senior advisers and the Cabinet members on the National Security Council participated in the strategy to make National Security staff members McFarlane, Poindexter and North the scapegoats whose sacrifice would protect the Reagan Administration in its final two years. In an important sense, this strategy succeeded. Independent Counsel discovered much of the best evidence of the cover-up in the final year of active investigation, too late for most prosecutions.



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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
44. Of the three
Ollie North in particular was "disowned" by the administration.When Reagan took the stance that he had little idea who North was and what he was doing, North freaked. He was willing to take responsibility, but he wanted to be honored for what he did. Those higher up were treating him with distain, in part because the investigation showed that North was played by the elder Iranians several times in a row.

That, in fact, is one of the most important "little" lessons that we should take from this ugly chapter of history: we tend to think our government is in control of everything -- and can make everything happen, or allow anything to happen -- but North (who is a serious man) got taken repeatedly. Played. Scammed. The Iranians are not an easy group to push around. And, thanks to Ollie's adventures, we know they got ahold of some serious technology.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #44
57. Ollie North made sure Iran got our Hawk anti-aircraft missiles
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 07:50 AM by SpiralHawk
So now our American pilots are threatened if BushCo orders them to invade Iran (currently making lovey dovey with Iraq.)

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_02.htm

Can you spell c-l-u-s-t-e-r-f-u-c-k ?

Take a good look in the mirror, Ollie. Behold the ugly truth of what you did to the people of the United States of America. Hang down your head in shame.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
123. North
...put on uniform and stood in front of congress with his 'open, honest, I cannot tell a lie' face..........feted at conservative political and religious meetings as an American 'hero'

...Malloy always refers to him as 'the traitor Oliver North'

...when North ran for senator in VA, he bluntly said 'Clinton is not my commander-in-chief' (IOW, it's ok for republicans not to support the president, but it's 'treason' if democrats don't support the president)

North planned the FEMA division of the US into administrative areas to be controlled by the federal govt 'in case of disaster/emergency', and Reagan authorized this by executive order........this was exactly what republicans claimed Clinton was going to do in 2000 rather than leave office
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
124. dupe
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 06:13 PM by bobbieinok
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
116. Off-topic but tangentiallly related -- Katherine Harris also "mistreated"
after doing their dirty work -- She wants to run for Senate now and says "they owe her."

Good thread. :thumbsup:
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
47. To circle back to the issue that started this discussion
I fear that Pat Roberts is employing the same strategy.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I think the timing
is different. Fitzgerald has the information he needs already. The granting of immunity now would not affect anything he has. It could be viewed as a potential problem for future information .... but in 99% of the possibilities, that future infomation/testimony would come from individuals who "turn" and are thus granted immunity anyhow. More, keep in mind that a person is thus required to answer honestly, or face charges for failing to do so.

The republicans aren't going to be able to derail this investigation. The only thing that can do it would be a series of presidential pardons, which I can say for sure are being given serious consideration right now. The problem for the administration is that these lead suspicion straight to their door -- exactly where they do not want it. For Bush to pardon the senior White House criminals would result in VP Cheney being investigated by the House, in which case the House has the right to any and every bit of information that the administration can otherwise keep under wraps.

It is true that in the past 14 days, the VP and his hoodlums have been pressuring republicans in the senate and house to help them. The pressure is building in ways that go far beyond the news media. The shit is going to hit the fan very soon, and there is anxiety and fear building in the bowels of the White House.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. I can't tell you how comforting it is to read that
Hope is just a four letter word these days.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #48
163. the bowels of the wh or heartless cheney?
Remember the report that he has acid stomach? Good pun :rofl:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
42. Very good summary!
Walsh was a conservative, and he recognized that this represented a take-over of the constitutional government.

One of the single most important issues that this article brings into sharp focus is that Iran-Contra was no a scandal .... it was a complicated. often overlapping series of scandals that spanned -- at very least -- 1980-1992.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
69. If anybody seriously wants to understand it, THAT is the post to read.
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 08:15 AM by enough
Thank you, Ommm.

I will never forget standing in the kitchen listening to the radio when the first details of this started to come out. You just could not believe it: They sold WHAT to WHOM???!!!! And then they used the money to finance WHAT???!!!

You have to remember that Iran was the arch-foe at the time. It was as if Bushco were publicly exposed selling arms to Al Qa-eda (not that we would be surprised today).

I had been following politics for a long time by then, but the fact that Iran-Contra did not eventually bring down the entire government was what finally made me realize that it is all a put-up job. And now we have some of the very same players in position again.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #69
101. Wonder if Plame knew that their WAS some funding involvement
Buds with the bin Ladens for years, that boy.
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Starfury Donating Member (615 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
149. Great report, but don't forget Michael Ledeen -
Manucher Ghorbanifar
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Manucher Ghorbanifar (nickname Gorba) is an expatriate Iranian arms dealer best known as a middleman in the Iran-Contra Affair during the Ronald Reagan presidency. He re-emerged in American politics during the lead-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq during the first term of President George W. Bush as a back-channel intelligence source to certain Pentagon officials who desired regime change in anti-American and theocratic Iran.

In the 1980s, Ghorbanifar's principal American contacts were National Security Council agents Oliver North and Michael Ledeen. Ghorbanifar also tried to get the US to support the Mojahedin-e-Khalq (MEK) opposition to the Khomeini government of Iran. Ledeen vouched for Ghorbanifar to National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane. Oliver North later claimed that Ghorbanifar had given him the idea for diverting profits from TOW and HAWK missile sales to Iran to the Nicauraguan Contras.

Ghorbanifar's suspected duplicity during the Iran-Contra deal led CIA Director William Casey to order three separate lie-detector tests, all of which he failed. Iranian officials also suspected Ghorbanifar of passing them forged American documents. The CIA issued a "burn notice" (or "Fabricator Notice") on Ghorbanifar in 1984, meaning he was regarded as an unreliable source of intelligence. A 1987 congressional report on Iran-Contra cites the CIA warning that Ghorbanifar "should be regarded as an intelligence fabricator and a nuisance".


But we're still feeling the result of Iran/Contra. One could say it never ended. Wikopedia continues:

In December 2001 Michael Ledeen organized a three-day meeting in Rome, Italy between Manucher Ghorbanifar and Defense Intelligence Agency officials Larry Franklin and Harold Rhode. Also present were two officials from Italy's SISMI. In addition to a position at the American Enterprise Institute, Ledeen was working as a consultant to then U.S. Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith, who oversaw the Office of Special Plans. The 2001 meeting took place with the approval of then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley. The meeting concerned a secret offer from reportedly dissident Iranian officials to provide information relevant to the war on terrorism and Iran's relationship with terrorists in Afghanistan.

In June 2002, officials of the Department of Defense met with Ghorbanifar and Iranian officials in Paris, France, without approval from the White House or other relevant Executive agencies. It is unclear if the other Iranians were actually MEK members.

Summer 2003 news reports of the meetings prompted an internal review, as well as an investigation by the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld described the meetings as, "There wasn't anything there that was of substance or of value that needed to be pursued further." News reports also indicated the Ghorbanifar sought to be payed for the middleman role.

Subsequent contacts with Ghorbanifar were abandoned.

Manucher Ghorbanifar has emerged as the probable origin of the information cited by Congressman Curt Weldon's book, Countdown to Terror: The Top-Secret Information that Could Prevent the Next Terrorist Attack on America... and How the CIA has Ignored it (Regnery Publishing, June 2005) ISBN: 0895260050. Weldon cites an anonymous source, "Ali," believed to be Fereidoun Mahdavi, a former Iranian minister of commerce before the Iranian Revolution who is a close associate of Ghorbanifar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manucher_Ghorbanifar


Summary from DailyKOS entry on forged Niger document genesis:
Back in 1984, Michael Ledeen put forward the idea of using Manucher Ghorbanifar to make illegal arms sales to Iran. The CIA's Deputy Director for Operations, Clair George, deemed Ghorbanifar totally unreliable. He felt that Ghorbanifar, a MOSSAD double agent, had Israel's security as his only priority. But George Bush Sr., having dealt with Ghorbanifar in Paris prior to the infamous "October Surprise" that got Ronald Reagan elected, agreed with Ledeen and so Ghorbanifar became the middleman in what became known as the Iran-Contra affair.

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/22/7563/12283

It all comes full circle....
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. The destruction of the Constitution was planned during this time by Reagan
I had watched the Ollie North trials every so often. He ended up a hero for his passion to not have people tortured. Anyway, during one of the televised part of the trial, Ollie mentioned that there was a group in the WH that were to figure out under what conditions the Consitution could be suspended. At that point the prosecurter (I think) objected and ran up to the judge. Ollie was told he was not allowed to mention anything about the commision against the Consitution.

Just imagine the thoughts I had when the Patriot Act was passed. These same people are back.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. actually it wasn't Reagan, he was already
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:27 PM by BareNakedLiberal
alzheimered. It was bush the meaner who was in the process of deconstructing the constitution. Martha Honey and Danny (I can't remember his last name - he was suicided) were exposing the entire nasty business, but they killed Danny in a bathtub. It was called a shadow government. Bill Moyers did a special called "Constitution in Crisis" which is an excellent account of the whole thing.

Edited to add important stuff.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Danny Casolaro
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:38 PM by Stephanie


The Octopus

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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. delete dupe
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:31 PM by BareNakedLiberal
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. thank you. Danny and Martha were my heros
and I never want to forget his name.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Casalaro, I think it is n/t
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. actually I think it's Casolaro
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 12:01 AM by Stephanie
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. Here's a history lesson on Elliott Abrams by David Corn of The Nation:
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 10:55 PM by Zen Democrat
Corn wrote this article about Abrams back in 2001 when Bush was putting Abrams back in government. The entire article gives a broad overview of just who Elliott Abrams was and is.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20010702&s=corn

....

Abrams was as nasty a policy warrior as Washington had seen in decades. He called foes "vipers." He said that lawmakers who blocked contra aid would have "blood on their hands"--while he defended US support for a human-rights-abusing government in Guatemala. When Oliver North was campaigning for the Senate in 1994 and was accused of having ignored contra ties to drug dealers, Abrams backed North and claimed "all of us who ran that program...were absolutely dedicated to keeping it completely clean and free of any involvement by drug traffickers." Yet in 1998 the CIA's own inspector general issued a thick report noting that the Reagan Administration had collaborated with suspected drug traffickers while managing the secret contra war.

So Bush the Compassionate may hand the White House portfolio on human rights to the guy who lied and wheedled to aid and protect human-rights abusers. As Adm. William Crowe Jr. said of Abrams in 1989, "This snake's hard to kill."
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. Lots of the same players today doing the same old treasonous stuff.
The believe themselves "Übermenschen." In reality they are nothing more than gangsters.





Iran-Contra gangsters resurface in Bush administration

By Patrick Martin
1 August 2001

The Bush administration appealed to Senate Democrats July 27 to move ahead with the confirmation of two top-level diplomatic nominees whose appointments have been delayed because of their role in defending right-wing dictatorships and death squads in Central America.

Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Joseph Biden (D-Del) said through a spokesman that a hearing for John Negroponte, nominated for US ambassador to the United Nations, would be held as early as next week. No hearing has yet been set for Otto Reich, nominated for assistant secretary of state for western hemisphere affairs.

Negroponte and Reich are two of the three Bush administration appointees with direct operational roles in the Central American counterinsurgency campaigns of the 1980s. The third is Elliott Abrams, named as director of the office for democracy, human rights and international operations at the National Security Council, a White House position which is not subject to Senate confirmation. Abrams was convicted of lying to Congress about the Iran-Contra affair, but was later pardoned by Bush’s father in 1992.

Negroponte was US ambassador to Honduras during the years when the right-wing Nicaraguan Contra forces were based in southern Honduras, just across the border from Nicaragua, supplied and armed illegally by the Reagan administration. Abrams was assistant secretary of state for western hemisphere affairs during that period and worked closely with Oliver North in organizing the illegal arms supplies to the Contras. Reich headed the Office of Public Diplomacy, a State Department agency which illegally funded pro-Contra propaganda both in the US and internationally.

The convicted liar

The selection of Abrams is the most provocative appointment by Bush since his nomination of John Ashcroft as attorney general. Appearing frequently at press forums and congressional committee hearings in the 1980s, Abrams was one of the most belligerent defenders of Reagan’s policy of arming the Contra fascists, who waged terrorist assaults on the Nicaraguan population for nearly a decade, killing an estimated 10,000 people.

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/aug2001/cont-a01.shtml



OTOH: Not even Ian Fleming dared dream that SMERSH or Blofeld or SPECTRE would ever hijack the Government of the United States -- but the crooks did it. My own take, it goes on from before Iran-Contra, all the way back to November 22, 1963.



From Dallas to Watergate

Selected writings of Professor Peter Dale Scott

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/B-IV.html

CONTINUED...



Back then, we called them "The Establishment," the "Military-Industrial Complex," "The System." We didn't know they also had the direct NAZI connection. And they are still, at heart, murderers, this Bush Organized Crime Family.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. it ended when bush the meaner
pardoned all the people involved. Reagan was deep in dementia, slept through the meetings, Nancy was consulting an astrologer, Oliver North and Admiral Poindexter said that the buck stopped with them. They shredded all the evidence (Fawn Hall testified that they shred so many docs that the shedders kept overheating), 100s of thousands of innocents died in Guatamala, Honduras and of course Nicargua. The difference between the Watergate hearings and the Iran/Contra hearing are that Watergate was successfully prosecuted and bush the meaner got away with murder. We mined the harbors of Nicargua, we were labeled as war criminals by the world court, bush the meaner gave the world the finger (figuratively) and when Clinton got into office, we thought that at least the nightmare had been put at bay, but of course chimpy stole the election and the country and things are worse now than ever.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I wonder if Laura would consult an astrologer?
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:27 PM by Stephanie


I think she would.

Both Watergate and Iran/Contra earings were on TV. So far this Fitzgerald investigation is still in grand jury. If there are indictments, will we see criminal trials on TV?
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. you betcha baby
we didn't have c span in those days, so it will be much easier now to watch it all. I took off working during the watergate and iran/contra hearings and I plan to be seated right in front of my tv for the next one too.
:popcorn:
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. A couple of links I've accumulated
Not all that much:

May 5, 05
Mexico Investigating Pakistani Suspect( in US custody, ties to IranContra)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1554153

Your tax dollars at work: remember Iran Contra smuggler Gene Hasenfus?
(1996 bill in Congress to compensate him - he was with Barry Seals)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2367431

Know your BFEE: Oliver North, Drug Dealer
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2349430


Untangling the Octopus
(October Surprise, Iran-Contra, Noriega, Iraqgate, and BCCI; The "Cleanup Wars"; The Wackenhut Connection; The CenTrust Connection: the S & Ls, the Mob, and BCCI; Bush's Teapot Dome?: the INSLAW Affair; Is the Octopus Still Alive?: Mena, Arkansas and a Clinton Compromise)
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/octopus.html

1980s, USA: Money Laundering for Contras, the Mob and the CIA
By Gary W.Potter, Eastern Kentucky University.
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue43/articles/mone_laundering_for_contras.htm#jeb

Call to Octafish: We need massive linkage on BCCI and IranContra.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2118878#2119051

Nazi Hydra in America
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html


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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. So bascially after reading all of this
I have come to the conclusion that in 5-10 years Rove will have his own radio show.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. Gather round, Children...
In July, 1979, a group of Nicaraguans calling themselves the Sandinistas overthrew dictator for life Anastanzio Somoza, one ofthe most corrupt thugs in Central American history. Despite pleas from Republicans that Carter intervene to put Somoza back in power, Carter refused. Somoza fled to Paraguay where he got bumped off under mysterious circumstances.

The Sandinistas put through a package of reforms and promised to hold legal elections. Within three years they had cut adult illiteracy in Nicaragua from 60% to 13%.

Meanwhile, in Iran, the Ayatollah had overthrown the Shah and seized the US embassy, holding Americans hostage. The GOP, Ronald Reagan, and George H.W, Bush secretly negotiated with the Iranians to stonewall negotiations with the US and keep the hostages until after the election, which they did. The hostages were released the day Reagan was inaugurated, and Reagan promptly began selling Iran arms secretly.

Some of the profits went into people's pockets, but some began to fiannce a group of Somoza's former soldiers and secret police who called themselves the contras. The contras were hailed by right wingers here as liberators; the Gipper called them the moral equivalent of our founding fathers.

The contras avoided the Nicaraguan army, alhough they killed many an unarmed peasant, as well as a few tourists. It was after "the moral equivalent of Our Founding Fathers" raped and killed a vanload of American nuns that Congress passed the Boland amendment, forbidding American aid to the contras.

The Reagan administration ignored that law. They went on secretly selling arms throughout the Mideast (one rumor at the time was that they sold an A-Bomb to Iran) and using the profits to buy arms and ship them to the contras. In addition, the contras were given a free pass by the DEA to bring cocaine up from South America and sell them in the US (Ollie North wrote a memo detailing this.)

Among the low points:
--In October, 1983, a car bomb killed 241 Marines in Lebanon; it was the Corps' bloodiest day since the battle of Iwo Jima. Hezbollah remains the chief suspect. Reagan at first compared it to kitchen remodeling problems, then invaded the tiny Caribbean island of Granada as a distraction. Secretly, he went on selling arms to Hezbollah.
--Reagan gave a speech in late 1985 announcing "America will never trade arms for hostages" about two days AFTER he had signed a memo authorizing arms sales to the Hezbollah in return for the return of hostages. The Hezbollah released the hostages as promised, and then predictably seized even more hostages.

In 1986 the scheme fell apart. A plane full of arms flown by Eugene Hasenfus was shot down by the Sandanistas. The White House denied he had anything to do with them, but Hasenfus had the private phone number for Poppa Bush's office written on a scrap of paper in his pocket. Hasenfus was put on trial by the Sandinistas, and convicted. The Sandinistas then commuted his sentence and sent him back to the US.

At about the same time, a $10 million payment from the Sultan of Brunei meant for the contras got put in the wrong Swiss bank account by Ollie North and his secretary, the blond and lissome Fawn Hall. The Swiss businessman who found it in his account made a stink.

Republican Lawrence Welch was named Independent Counsel for one investigation...another was a presidential commission named by Reagan, headed by Senator John Tower. The investigations nailed (among others) North, Abrams, Secord, Weinberger and Meese. The entire country was amazed to learn that Ollie North had conducted a non-stop shredding operation on the eve of the investigation. He shredded so many documents that he actually wore out one of the machines, and Fawn Hall (seen below) smuggled the shreds out in her brassiere.


Reagan's interrogation was especially noteworthy; the Gipper's answer to more than 130 questions was "I don't recall," even when shown memos that bore his signature.

As Welsh was winding up his investigation and Poppa Bush's trainwreck of an administration drew to its dismal close, Poppa Bush pardoned just about everyone involved, including Casper Weinberger. Weinberger had been indicted but not convicted; it was widely expected that his testimony would have led to an indictment of Poppa Bush.

Meanwhile, in Nicaragua, with the contras finally gone, the Sandinistas held free elections in 1990 just as they had promised...and peacefully left office when Nicaraguans voted against them. They remain one of several political parties in the country.

FUN FACT: Fawn Hall went on to be Playboy's "Sex Star of 1987."
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Excellent narrative!
Compelling read! I note you put special focus on one Fawn Hall.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Thanks...
At almost the same time that Fawn and Ollie were in the headlines, so were:
--Gary Hart and Donna Rice...(Hart, the front runner for the Democratic nomination, was cheating on his wife with Rice. Asked about it, he challenged reporters to follow him around so they could see for themselves it wasn't true. They did..and caught him fooling around with her on the deck of a yacht named, of all things, the Monkey Business)

--Jim and Tammy Bakker, evangelists (Jim turned out to have groped Jessica Hahn, one of his assistants and then paid her hush money; Tammy had taken the money sent in by the not very bright faithful and blown it on many extravagant purchases, including a dog house with solid gold fittings. Tammy went on televison and denied it all, getting long black streaks of mascara and tears down her somewhat grotesque face. Fellow evangelist Jimmy Swaggert, cousin to decadent rockabilly legend Jerry Lee Lewis, publicly jeered at the Bakkers, which was ironic because

--Jimmy Swaggert, not long after his attacks on the Bakkers, was discovered by a private eye at a shabby motel with an un-named $35 an hour prostitute. (Swaggert was the most successful evangelist in the world at the time, raking in more than $150 million a year. The detective had been hired by Marvin Gorman, another evangelist who had got caught having an affair and publicly jeered at by Swaggert.) Soon it was Jimmy's turn to go on television and weep big hot salty tears...but his empire collapsed.

It was an interesting time...
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #40
102. Interesting. I wasn't aware that the media was assisting so much back
then in the same way they are now. So the right wing was throwing out distraction 'Michael Jackson, shark and white woman missing' stories then too?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #102
106. To be fair, Gary Hart and Tammy Bakker gave them a lot of help
I agreed with Hart on nearly every issue, but to DARE the press to follow him when he actually WAS fooling around (and aboard the Monkey Business, no less) betokens dangerous egotism and a fundamental lack of common sense. Better we found it out then than after he was the candidate--or the President.

And how could anyone ignore Tammy Faye and her creepy little lemur of a husband? You'd have to have a stone for a heart not to laugh and jeer.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #40
152. And still to this day may it be "interesting". Any one else here fed up
yet?


:argh: and :banghead: many times over!
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #36
60. Gigadittoes ! Thanks Benchley
Worth saving
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #60
68. Thank you!
You know, if it wasn't that innocent people were being killed, wounded or taken hostage by this mess, it would read like comic farce.

And I suspect the same will be true of this era.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #32
86. Bravo! Terrific work! One quibble, though, it's WALSH not Welsh.
Re: Reagan's "I don't recall"; it was utterly surreal! I remember screaming at the TV, "Are they REALLY going to let him get away with that shit?!?!"

On the other hand, it was becoming pretty obvious that the guy was nothing more than a drooling idiot stage prop.

sw
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #86
105. Yes, you're right. Mea culpa...
Worth noting that
--when Democrats picked an independent counsel to investigate Nixon they picked Republican Alexander Cox. And when Cox found wrongdoing, Nixon fired him...and the Democrats replaced Cox with Republican Eliot Richardson who found plenty of wrongdoing;

--when Democrats picked an independent counsel to investigate Iran/Contra they picked Republican Lawrence Walsh, and Walsh found plenty of wrongdoing;

--but when Republicans picked an independent counsel to investigate Whitewater they picked Republican Robert Fiske. And when Fiske found no evidence of wrongdoing, the Republicans fired him and appointed Republican Ken Starr, who had multiple conflicts of interest in the case...and Starr still had to admit there wasn't any evidence of wrongdoing.

I knew they were going to let Reagan off, and I even agreed with it...you might as well have hauled Ollie North's family dog into the courtroom and beat it with a stick. The Gipper was a senile mess, hardly even himself anymore.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
96. Very well done.
It's amazing how America can continue to elect the same criminals, over and over again, without realizing how they are being duped.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #96
107. What I find just as unsettling
is how America ignored what happened and what continues to happen in those countries we were meddling in.

Wonder how many people here, who knew other things about Iran/Contra and domestic events, knew that after the contras dried up, the Sandinistas held elections just like they promised and left office peacefully when they lost?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #107
148. Probably not many. Also, at the time, one of the
arguments for continuing the funding of the fake freedom fighters was that the Sandinistas refused to negotiate with them.

This was patently untrue. I know, because I translated some talks so they could be presented to Congress. The Republican leadership refused to let them be entered into the record.

The smearing of the Sandinistas was very professional.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #32
112. I realize
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 12:54 PM by slaveplanet
In the interest of brevity, you added this : In addition, the contras were given a free pass by the DEA to bring cocaine up from South America and sell them in the US (Ollie North wrote a memo detailing this.)

But there's a lot more to it...

Here's one of North's more famous entries July 12, 1985 entry: "$14 million to finance {arms} came from drugs."

I see it not as the Contras being given a free pass by the DEA...but in the more ominous specter , that the NSC was/is in partnership with the drug cartels and the DEA is only used as a tool to bust the competition.

Many good DEA agents were forced into the role of mere spectator as the supply lines,airfields, and protectionism was set up in a business like fashion...The WAR ON DRUGS (WOD) was declared ...so they could import it on the front end , control the distributors in the middle, and nail the tail end street user in order to institutionalize the hapless in the Babylon system of prisons, many owned privately by their buddies. It also was a convenient excuse to further militarize the police and bring in the culmination of things like the patriot act.(much of the provisions spirit arose from this period.)

A main character in the 80's was John Hull who operated a ranch in Costa Rica, drugs were also flown out of the el Salvador airport to private airstrips all across the southern US often refueling in the Bahamas.

It may be different routes , different players , but the same activity continues on through this day. With all this present day, in your face political activity, we just don't hear about it as much.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
143. Another fun fact:
Fawn Hall was dating the son of Arturo Cruz, Arturo Cruz being the Nicaraguan exile whom Reagan promoted as the "real people's choice" in the 1984 Nicaraguan elections.

http://crm.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=7b91c151664a5186b0c0962cfbc84767
---
In 1984, while Contra rebels terrorized much of the countryside, the Sandinistas searched for a negotiated solution to the conflict. They signed on to the Contadora Group's regional peace treaty, only to have Reagan's White House demand it be redrafted. They then hoped that democratic elections would convince the United States to leave Nicaragua alone.

Opposition leader Arturo Cruz returned to Nicaragua from his self-exile in Washington to run for president against the FSLN's Daniel Ortega. After beginning his campaign, Cruz later withdrew his candidacy, claiming the electoral process was unfair. The elections went forward and the FSLN won 67 percent of the vote with six opposition parties sharing 29 percent. Foreign election observers -- including a delegate from the British Conservative party -- declared the vote to have been fair and free. But citing the abstention of Cruz, who later admitted being in the pay of the CIA, Reagan dismissed the vote and the war continued unabated.
---
The article does not mention that Ortega tried to accommodate Cruz by actually postponing the elections so that he would have time to campaign.
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #143
160. My small role in the breakup of Fawn and Arturo
I probably shouldn't be saying this, but I may have played a small passive role in their breakup.

At the time I was buds with Arturo, Jr's younger, ne'er-do-well brother-- the black sheep of the family. I can't imagine why in the world he would do it, but he gave his brother the key to his apartment, a real swank ultra-modern place in Dupont Circle, when he and Fawn went abroad for a week.

Long story short, my friend begged me to help him clean up the place the night before they were due to get back in town. Outside in the hall you could smell the strong stench of feces-- the toilet had overflowed. Big time. There was about an inch and a half of the watery brown stuff covering the bathroom floor. It was so gross I refused to help and walked out-- I wasn't gonna put myself through that for Fawn and Arturo's sake. I convinced my friend to leave it be and we split, leaving it the way it was.

I can imagine the look on their faces when they got back to the apartment after their long trip. Less than two weeks later they split up. I can't help wonder if the bathroom incident had anything to do with it....
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
33. we are leaving out the death of CIA Director Casey...
...on the day he was to testify. By most accounts, William Casey knew everything.
The term "chilling effect" really got a foothold during the Reagan/Busg regieme.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Welcome to DU!
How did Casey die? Wasn't he canoeing or something? In the canal?
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. thank you!
And thank you for bringing up the topic!
To answer you question, I am almost positive that it was a massive stroke. I am fairly certain he was on his way that very day to testify.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #39
67. Let me second the welcome...
You might recall Bob Woodward later wrote a book which claimed to contain Casey's deathbed confession...except that hospital security records showed that they had tossed the newshound out the only time he tried to visit Casey's hospital room.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
66. You're thinking of Wm. Colby, former CIA director.
His body was found ten days after he disappeared boating off the coast of Maryland near his home.

Another suspicious death related to the Franklin arrair and Iran/Contra.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #66
80. thank you - that is who I'm thinking of
He was on the coast?
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #80
85. That was how DeCamp described it in his book. He was a friend of
Colby's. Colby warned DeCamp his life was in danger because of his investigation of Franklin, it's connections to the WH and the highest levels of power. Colby told him to get the information out to protect him and his family. When Colby died under mysterious circumstances, DeCamp decided to publish what he knew and could prove.

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #80
134. I'm pretty sure he lived on "The Eastern Shore" which refers
To the Eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay, not the Coast.

-Hoot
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #134
144. Well...I've not been able to find if it was a river or the open sea.
As you well know, the whole of the eastern seaboard around that area is either river or sea, depending on where you are at the moment.
I did find this:

William Colby was last seen at this retreat about 40 miles South of Washington on Saturday. Before bad weather set in this afternoon divers searched for new signs of what might have happened. His canoe was found swamped on a sand bar on Sunday.


He was an old guy. He could have keeled over after a nice dinner at his house while canoeing etc... Maybe.

But he was in fear of his life and sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

Read the book. (DeCamps.)

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. Actually Casey had a stroke when the scandal came to light
He died of pneumonia shortly before he could testify. He was 74 at the time...
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #41
164. He died quite suddenly of a "brain tumor"
and he had a closed casket funeral. This was also during the time of the reign of Baby Doc for Life, Haitian dictator and the ton ton machoots (sp). There were reports during that time about a poison that would leave one in a death like state. I always had a suspicion that he took the poison and is living elsewhere (but then I always was a conspiracy theorist)
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. It's a fascinating story
I was 19 at the time, living in Santa Cruz and very politically active. I worked at a thrift store, and during the hearings I would turn every TV in the place to the broadcast, and I followed it closely.

The Christic Institute, a public policy law firm in Wash DC, did a lot of good work; IIRC they filed a lawsuit against the CIA.

A lot of great speakers toured the country and talked about this fiasco, and I saw many of them in Santa Cruz.

Somewhere I have a deck of Iran Contra playing cards. I suspect if I pulled it out I would find I have about 1/2 of the current Bush administration. Ugh.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. That's right! The Christic Institute!
I can't remember the specifics of that lawsuit.
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. They were representing those journalists from the La Penca bombing
and Daniel Sheehan was the main guy at Christic Institute, I believe. I still have a bunch of their literature tucked away somewhere. I swear I was flabergasted when that scandal broke and it didn't bring down the whole administration.

Imagine my shock to see that all these guys are back. It's just unfathomable to me that Negroponte was appointed as ambassador to Iraq. Not to mention all the other Iran-Contra guys who are constantly being hired and promoted by Junior.

I think it's just that most people aren't paying attention...too busy with their lives, or with junk TV.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
128. media do NOT talk about the backgrounds of these people
also,

NPR has all these guest commentators from the Heritage Foundation or the American Enterprise Institute......they are identified after their comments, and the fact that these are conservative think tanks is NEVER mentioned

years ago, when someone from the CATO institute was on NPR, it was always identified as a Libertarian think tank
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. Many peculiar things said and done at that time...
You might recall Fawn Hall telling Congress (obviously repeating what she'd heard the people she worked with say) "Sometimes you have to go above the written law"...and then immediately realizing she'd blurted out something she wasn't supposed to sayto outsiders and trying to take it back...

The memory of Reagan testifying is also indelible....he was a sad, scared, distracted old guy who was, if not already gripped by Alzheimers, clearly sliding irrevocably toward it...and he clung desperately to his "I don't recall" over and over and over, even when shown documents he had signed.

Weirdly, the thing that still best sums it up for me is a Saturday Night Live skit with Phil Hartman as Reagan in the Oval Office. In front of the public he was the doddering, confused Reagan who testified, but the second the doors closed he transformed into a steely dynamo barking out the plans for Iran/Contra to confused subordinates who couldn't figure out the many and obvious flaws and contradictions in the scheme...It was hilarious because it was so clearly NOT what had gone on in the Reagan White House.

Clearly, what you had with Iran/Contra was a bunch of wingnut staffers, each with their own twisted agenda, out of control and making foreign policy in clearly illegal, highly unethical and even antiAmerican ways...and that's why it is so important to find out what Judge Frenchfry contirbuted to the mess.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. That line ....
"Sometimes you have to go above the written law" stunned the average American. Thank you for reminding us of that.

Also, you are absolutely right about Reagan's deteriorating mental abilities. At one point, he said, "It's as if I were never really president." hat line was far more true than he realized. I think it is important to realize that Iran-Contra was the result of the vice president's influence. Certainly, like today's scandal(s), there were numerous players. But it was Bush1.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. It was actually tragic to watch...
Because it was clear there was nobody there...just an empty suit.

Ironically, the party that said "Sometimes you have to go above the written law" in those years and that is currently tearing up the Constitution and ignoring laws it finds inconvenient, spent the intervening years screeching "rule of law" like scalded parrots and trying to pretend a humjob was the crime of the century.

You might also remember that for all his patriotic posturing, Ollie North turned out to be a cheap crook who siphoned off Iran/Contra funds for stuff like snow tires and home improvements...

And it's also worth noting that one of the major events that unraveled the whole thing was bumbling Ollie putting the Sultan of Brunei's $10 million in the WRONG Swiss bank account.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Snow tires and the fence .....
Poor Ollie thought he needed them, just in case. And you are correct: the hearings exposed North as being in way over his head.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Didn't Ollie testify that he needed that fence to protect himself from
Bin Laden? Wasn't that the name he dropped then?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #59
72. No, it was Abu Nidal...
and there was no record Nidal ever did anything but buy arms through a cutout from Ollie and his odious chums. (North also claimed at the time that a Libyan assassination squad had tried to off his family and had been foiled by the FBI--needless to say, that was horseshit too.)

But it was a popular lie in dittohead circles after 9/11 that Ollie had named Osama, and even that he had offered to fly over to the Middle East and kill Bin Laden in face-to-face combat, only to be prevented from doing so by....Senator Al Gore. And then they called it the blues...

And then Bill Clinton slapped his penis right in poor Ollie's face while Monica held him down...no, I made that part up. But it was surprising that the freepers didn't manage to work the clenis into that bullshit somehow.

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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. I must bleach my brain now
Just goes to show that we all can be sucked in by a sound bite when we least expect it. With all the activity surounding that time in history I am amazed that we can keep any of it straight. Thanks for bringing the real name to light for me.

I must now go and bleach my brain, for I had retained a dittohead soundbite without my knowledge. Sort of like Spyware for the brain .. you don't know it's there until you run a check for it.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #77
84. I know what you mean...
If it turns out Judge Frenchfry gets into trouble for his role in that, expect the chickenhawk brigade to begin firing that weapon again...only this time it will be John Kerry (or Howard Dean or Hillary) who stopped Ollie from taking out his bowie knife and killing Osama...

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #56
63. Ollie's lame excuse
was that he hadn't stolen Iran/Contra money, he had saved his spare change.

And as I mentioned up above, his sidekick Fawn Hall, whom the natives called White Bimbo, was toting shredded documents around town in her brassiere for whatever bizarre reason...
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #49
153. It is Bush, Inc. Bush1 and all his evil minions are still in charge,
they gave us Jr. this time in place of Reagan. Jr. loves to dress up.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. John Tower Sure Died Mysteriously
John Tower
AKA John Goodwin Tower

Born: 25-Sep-1925
Birthplace: Houston, TX
Died: 5-Apr-1991
Location of death: Brunswick, GA
Cause of death: Accident - Airplane
Remains: Buried, Sparkman Hillcrest Memorial Park, Dallas, TX


Gender: Male
Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Politician

Level of fame: Somewhat
Executive summary: US Senator from Texas 1961-85

Military service: U.S. Navy (1943-46)

After service in the Senate (including Chairman of the Armed Services Committee for several years), Tower became a highly paid defense consultant. In 1986, Ronald Reagan appointed Tower to investigate the Iran-Contra scandal. He was also nominated to U.S. Secretary of Defense by George H.W. Bush, though not confirmed by the Senate amidst a firestorm of allegations regarding his womanizing and heavy drinking.

Wife: (1st, three daughters)
Wife: (2nd)
Daughter: Marian (d. same airplane crash)


High School: Beaumont High School, Beaumont, TX
University: Southwestern University, Georgetown, TX (1948)
University: London School of Economics and Political Science
University: MA Political Science, Southern Methodist University (1953)


Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board Chairman 1990-91
Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board 1989
Iran-Contra Scandal Headed the Tower Commission
U.S. Senator, Texas 15-Jun-1961 to 3-Jan-1985
American Legion
Kiwanis Club
Kappa Sigma Fraternity
Risk Factors: Alcoholism, Prostate Cancer


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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Planes DO crash
and there sure seem to be a lot fof them around the Bush Crime Family...

Still, why there'd be foul play from anyone in Iran/Contra against a guy who did all he could to cover it up, and who was Poppa Bush's choice to be Secretary of Defense (Congress turned him down bcause he was a womanizing drunk), is beyond me.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #53
71. People DO get murdered
Planes tend to crash, people tend to get a stroke, when it's convenient for the criminals in high places.

"Sometimes you have to go above the written law"
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. Again, though....
if anybody had a motive to murder Tower it was either a mistress he dumped or his wife....Poppa Bush tried to make him Secretary of Defense, and Tower was the reason Ollie North's ass didn't go to jail...
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. Jeez...which mistress? The guy was a player. n/t
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 08:45 AM by LibInTexas
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Yeah, the GOP is the party of family values...(snicker)
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #83
97. Actually I believe he was divorced at the time of his death, so
technically, he didn't have mistresses.

Unfortunately one of his daughters died in the crash. He used to bring her around the TV station I was working for when he did interviews there, very nice and pretty woman.

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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #46
62. Ahh, what did Judge Frenchfry contribute to the mess?
That is the question.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #62
73. A good good question....
He would have been giving out written opinions both during the arms for hostages/illegal war stage, AND in the "Give them a pardon so Poppy doesn't go to jail" phase...

And just the fact that the GOP is trying to hide those opinions tells you how dreadful they are....
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #62
90. Who is Judge Frenchfry?
confused...
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #90
98. SCOTUS Nominee Roberts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050720/ap_on_go_su_co/roberts_french_fry

...As a member of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, Roberts wrote a decision last year upholding the arrest of a 12-year-old girl who violated the ban on eating food on Washington's subway system, Metro...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #90
103. Chimpy's Supreme Court Nominee
who in his most famous case thought it was appropriate that a child should be handcuffed and jailed for eating a french fry in public...(no word yet as to whether it was because he thought she should be eating a freedom fry instead)...
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #46
154. I'm sorry, I love it. "Judge FrenchFry". I want those records released.
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 06:06 AM by anarchy1999
Now, not now but yesterday! As Bush 1's soliciter general, on behalf of the Vice President Bush, what did you know, dear sir, and when did you know it? And how did you help and or aid in all the pardons of criminals that had committed treaon? Just what was your role in this affair?

Oh, yeah, right, executive privilege, records are sealed and so on and so forth. You're guilty, dear sir. But hey, you are the best we've got, right?

America, What went Wrong?

www.amazon.com

There is a book with lots of detail.

Iran/Contra will never go away until the criminals are held accountable. Problem is they are now in control of our "government".

Deep, Deep Trouble.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
58. all these posts and so few nominations?
and let's keep this thread alive for further input

Was anyone else a listener to WBAI's (NYC, Pacifica radio)
"Contragate"? I used to listen religiously. wow....
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
61. Kerry statement in Iran-contra hearings, re. CIA narcotics trade
"We were complicit as a country, in narcotics traffic at the same time as we're spending countless dollars in this country as we try to get rid of this problem. It's mind-boggling.
I don't know if we got the worst intelligence system in the world, i don't know if we have the best and they knew it all, and just overlooked it.
But no matter how you look at it, something's wrong. Something is really wrong out there."
-- John Kerry, Iran Contra Hearings, 1987

from the documentary "Crack The C.I.A."
http://www.archive.org/download/ctc/ctc_256kb.mov (32MB, 9min)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7dhyg/slaverevolt.html
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
64. it never really ended
"This is no different than Iran-Contra. In fact the same names that were around there are affiliated with Ptech. The same illegal clandestines are affiliated behind the scenes with Ptech."


"(Ptech) is a CIA clandestine op on the level of Iran-Contra. And I have reason to believe this because Care International that was mentioned in one of the slides is a renamed version of Alkhifah which was the funding arm for WTC '93. Prior to Alkhifah it was called Maktab Al-Khidamat, which is the funding arm for the Afghani Mujahideen. It was how the money got to Osama bin Laden through the Pakistani ISI."


"(Ptech's) financier, their funders, their investors, were all Saudis. (...) one Saudi has been placed on the US Terror List, October 12, 2001.
(...)someone who has been placed on the US Terror List is key funder, angel investor, to a company whose software is utilized at the highest levels of almost every government and military and defense organization in this country, including the Secret Service, the FBI, the Department of Defense, the House of Representatives, the Treasury Department, the IRS, the US Navy, the US Air Force, and, last but not least, the Federal Aviation Administration.
(...) they were in use at IBM, of course, and the top accounting firms, and even in the FBI, in Miter. Miter is a large company that does specialized technology for defense and intelligence."

-- Indira Singh, 9-11 whistleblower


sources
Indira's testimony before the 9-11 Citizens Commission:
http://911busters.com/911-Commission.html (video, audio)
- Indira Singh Sibel's Letter
- Indira Singh and Ruppert Questions and Answers
http://www.justicefor911.org/September-Hearings.doc (transcript)

KPFA "Guns n Butter"
July 20th 2005
Inteview with Indira Singh
"Ground Zero 911, Blueprint For Terror, Part Two"
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/archives.php?id=13&limit=N
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #64
79. precisely
its the same fucking novel.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
65. BIGGER, BADDER

A BIGGER, BADDER SEQUEL TO IRAN-CONTRA (article from 2003)

Jim Lobe, AlterNet

Just like Ollie North and his cohorts, a small network of officials are pursuing a covert foreign policy agenda -- except their aims are vastly more ambitious.

http://www.alternet.org/story/16597 /

The specter of the Iran-Contra affair is haunting Washington. Some of the people and countries are the same, and so are the methods ? particularly the pursuit by a network of well-placed individuals of a covert, parallel foreign policy that is at odds with official policy.
Boiled down to its essentials, the Iran-Contra affair was about a small group of officials based in the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that ran an "off-the-books" operation to secretly sell arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. The picture being painted by various insider sources in the media suggests a similar but far more ambitious scheme at work.

Taken collectively, what these officials describe and what is already on the public record suggests the existence of a disciplined network of zealous, like-minded individuals. Centered in Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith's office and around Richard Perle in the Defense Policy Board in the Pentagon, this exclusive group of officials operates under the aegis of Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney.

This network includes high-level political appointees, such as Undersecretary of State John Bolton, who are scattered around several other key bureaucracies, notably in the State Department, the NSC staff, and most importantly, in Cheney's office.
...more..
===================

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0710-04.htm

Published on Sunday, July 10, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times

Confessed Iran-Contra Figure Lands Sensitive Pentagon Post
Robert Earl, who helped in the failed coverup of the '80s scandal, is now chief of staff to Gordon England, acting deputy secretary of Defense.

by John Hendren

WASHINGTON — In 1987, Robert L. Earl told a grand jury that he had destroyed and stolen national security documents while working for Lt. Col. Oliver L. North during the Iran-Contra scandal.

Now, he sits in one of the most coveted offices in the Pentagon as chief of staff to Gordon R. England, acting deputy secretary of Defense. Earl has clearance to review the kinds of classified documents he once destroyed.

As England goes through his Senate confirmation process, his hiring of Earl has drawn criticism from government ethics watchdogs. But congressional sources said it was unlikely to affect support for England, who was popular on Capitol Hill but whose nomination was tied up over an arcane financial rule.

President Bush nominated England to replace Paul D. Wolfowitz, who left the deputy secretary's post this spring to head the World Bank.

..more..



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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
70. a scary parallel
when you put today's policies side by side with then becomes too clear. they will carry cakes and bibles to future targets- especially to future targets- for immedidate deals. this serves to give the illusion that these dirtbags will deal with anyone in things that cannot be disclosed safely. Mutual blackmail or honor among theives supposedly. The cake and bible portray both dumbness and this kind of deal making.

Now we know that they have that cake and eat it too. They use the immediate advantages of deals with future set targets or current realtime enemies to both get inside their dirty affairs and to foster the illusion that this is how you can get what you want from America. This twist is affirmed by the equally twisted and illegal power that succeed in achieving absolute power back here.

Even though in real terms that latter illusion has been proven false, that any dealing with the WH crooks will be self-defeating and betrayal inevitable, that even the honor among thieves has no more surety than a test ban treaty, no one has made a clean break from the temptation of dealing with Ammerica. That tie has become stronger as consequentially the US coup clique has become more powerful. Other national leaders know better- maybe- but not all, and it is something to feed off as they try to weather the Bushes out.

It is about total corruption by all political leaders in the world, the seduction of power, pragmatic necessity, warped national interest(here nationalism truly reveals itself in its worst diseased suicidal form), global economy fragility, blowback of strangled media information to your own people, etc.

The methodology and its course is now affirmed by the same radical players of the last scandal which was an offshoot of the Reagan administration and now the absolute center of a new dictatorship. They know if the world will tolerate a Hussein or even a smaller tyrant they certainly will give the "US" anything it wants if it behaves the same way. Yet the habits of Iran/Contra- the black bag crimes, the treason, the subterfuge- now really unnecessary- are impossible to break because these souls are set in stone. These are wind up treason dolls.
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
76. Can't Stop the Music
We're in the midst of a revolution and we have not won yet.

One of the great things about now as opposed to the 60s is you can protest in your
basement, you don't have to go to Washington, D.C., and I encourage everybody to do it.

Monica with Prescott and Beth Bush
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
78. Another interesting twist to Iran/Contra is the Franklin Cover-up.
From former Nebraska state senator John DeCamp's book "The Franklin Cover-Up, Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska"...paraphrased in the Gunderson report:

De Camp, in his 1986 book on the Franklin case, cites an Omaha World-Herald May 21, 1989 article CONNECTING Franklin to Iran-Contra; "In the 61/2 months since federal authorities closed Franklin, rumors have persisted that money from the credit union somehow found its way to the Nicaraguan contra rebels ." (P. 171).

Carol Stitt, Foster Care Review Board Executive Director, had notes that referenced Larry King running guns and money into Nicaragua. De Camp writes; "Her notes on December 21, 1998 reflect that she talked with Flanery and in addition to the Nicaraguan info he was also now talking about CIA involvement and provided info that yesterday (Dec. 20) the FBI quit cooperating with him. Apparently Flanery told Carol he was close to resigning and the reason he didn’t think anyone wanted to do anything was because of the possibility of a White House connection" (p. 170).

Rusty Nelson has reported new evidence on a Franklin and Iran-Contra connection as of June 22, 2000, jeopardizing his life further. Nelson’s June 22, 2000, written statement states: "An other dark villain was Colonel Akino to whom King paid off with a suitcase of bearer bonds and cash earmarked for covert Contra operations."



For a not so quick overview of Franklin:
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/gunderson_report.htm
Or google "Franklin Cover-Up" and break out the popcorn.

Otherwise the DeCamp book cited above is a fascinating read and he has a new 2005 edition out available through his office:
AWT Inc. P.O. Box 85461 Lincoln, NE 68501 402.477.3974 decamplegal@inebraska.com


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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
87. For more on IranContra, I recommend this book.
In it I learned how massive the arms shipment to Iran was. It was more than needed to equip an infantry division (20,000+ men). It included huge amounts of ammunition and many heavy weapons. These were not WW II surplus. It included large artillery pieces and I think a battalion of tanks (~60)
Also Marc Rich's name surfaces and the banking network necessary to move the large amount of money surreptitiously is also mentioned.

Robert Maxwell: Israel's Superspy : The Life and Murder of a Media Mogul (Hardcover)
by Martin Dillon, Gordon Thoma

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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
89. We are still experiencing the consequences of Iran-Contra...
in that the arms sold to Iran (in exchange for Iranian pressure to get our hostages out of Lebanon) were used to keep them in the fight with Iraq. Iran was (as it is today, and as it was before we went to war in Iraq) more dangerous to the U.S. Iran was a Shiite-led Theocracy. At the same time, we were also selling (get-this)WMD to Iraq--to keep them in the war with Iraq---we didn't want a winner in that war, IMO. (Remember where the "gas" came from that Saddam used against the Kurds--if he didn't have it, he couldn't have used it).

Now, we learn yesterday that the new government in Iraq--sovereign as it is--prefers to set up--not a democracy--but, like in Iran, a Shiite-led Theocracy. (So much for the spread of democracy in the middle-east.)

So, now, instead of a new democratic state---guess what we have--two theocratic states, living side-by-side, at peace with one another--with one of those states (Iran) beefing up their nuclear program.

So, why again, are we fighting in Iraq? Not WMD, they tell us now, but regime change---but, look at what it is being changed into. The U.S. is digging itself into a deeper hole every day--and, IMO, we need to stop digging and start looking for a ladder out of this hole.

Oh, the tangled web that was woven when the RW SAVIOR REAGAN:sarcasm: started negotiating with those who had taken our citizens hostage. Sold arms for hostages, diverted proceeds to Contras when it was illegal--kept the Iran/Iraq going--ended up right where we didn't want to be. The country is being run by dumbass idealogues who have the wrong idea.

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dr.zoidberg Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
104. Why bother?
It'll be full of bullshit and horribly biased as well.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #104
108. Now there is a curious comment.
Maybe you could explain what "full of bullshit and horribly biased" discussions on related scandals are the cause of your contempt?
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dr.zoidberg Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. What I'm saying is
That everything I've ever seen on Iran/Contra is always done by someone that has an axe to grind. It drive me up the fucking wall! I would just once like to know what happened without the persons involved be attacked or defended and without smart-ass comments being made!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #109
110. I think there are
a number of good links on this thread that will meet your needs. The fact that those involved may be "attacked" would seem a consequence of their behaviors .... indeed, it would seem hard not to examine the illegal behaviors and not find fault. That would make it difficult to imagine any democrat defending the behaviors of Abrams et al.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. I can relate to what you are saying. Seriously try one of these.
Or the one I mention just above. Unfortunately boards cannot meet all our needs - finding the truth takes alot of quiet time and solitary thinking as well as a group dynamic. One suggestion - when you feel confused it helps to ask - is someone trying to confuse things, (who when why where and how) - actually it sounds to me like you are already doing that. Don't mean to be preachy, just trying to help.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=Sy+Hersh&userid=Ey23NqeBzB
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #109
118. Why don't you try finding
the documentary called Constitution in Crisis. This was produced by Bill Moyers and is an excellent piece about what was happening.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #118
161. Here is a link to that video :
http://rinf.com/news/july-05/The-Constitution-Crisis.html


Thanks to everybody who contributed to this fascinating/educational thread.
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
113. The Oliver North File
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #113
115. "The ends justify the means."
This is the credo of the RW. These gangsters are proud of themselves. Violating laws, subverting the Constitution are their standard MO and they are proud of their deeds. They do consider themselves above the Law. They have proven that time and again. Dems are too weak to bring about change in Amerika. The Multi-Corps are in charge and they have no alliegance to America or the non-elite American. Amerika will be a 3rd world Corporate Ruled wasteland grinding itself into a Fascist Police State. Looking to the Dem Party to stop the Global Multi-Corps Steamroller is a rose colored pipedream.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
119. Poppy was Prez for 12 years and PARDONED Weinberger.
Pruneface Reagan was so out of it, he didn't recognize his own Secretary of Education. The real power behind the throne was Poppy. Remember that most of his own 1980 pretzeldental campaign team -- Casey, Baker and Mosbacher-- ended up as the White House straw bosses for Pruneface.

When the Iran-Contra scandal broke out. Poppy claimed he "was out of the loop." What bilge. George Herbert Walker Bush avoided jail only because of a supine Democratic Senate and the fact he pardoned most of his fellow co-conspirators after losing in 1990 to the Big Do.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #119
127. Interesting that the same relationship exists between VP and Pres
Both administrations had puppet front-men in the presidency, with the real power vested in the scheming, manipulating, venal VP's.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #119
130. Weinberger said if he went down he wasn't going alone...so a pardon
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 06:43 PM by bobbieinok
like it's SOOOO believable that the vice president, the former head of the CIA, was 'out of the loop' during Iran-Contra
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
122. You are just too much fun and then some!!
Peace.

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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
125. Don't DUers Google, for crissake?
I see a lot of people ask questions that could be answered in 0.23 seconds if they'd just look it up. :shrug:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. This is called a discussion.
The rest of us are enjoying it. If you prefer to Google please go do so.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #129
131. also, personal memories are interesting and at times helpful
there's a difference between books, articles, documentaries, etc about the 60s civil rights movement and personal stories about the time....or about any war, etc, etc, etc,....
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #129
145. poo on you...
:spank:
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ChiDem Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
126. anybody here read Al Martins book on Iran Contra ?
it's very very detailed. names, places, times ...ect
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #126
132. Poppy bush had a reputation of being...
a nice guy, non-confrontational and bland. That was his public image. Behind the scenes he was a mean, spiteful scheming asshole. No doubt in my mind that he was in the thick of the Iran/Contra planning. Off topic for another post but I have read Bush 1's involment as CIA Chief and Manual Noreiga. Bush is the head of the Bush Crime Dynasty.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #132
135. Fantastic photo!
Meanwhile the nuclear and munitions sites were all looted.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #135
155. You left out the museums and libraries. Thousands of years of history,
GONE! That was the day I cried the most.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
138. It was so complicated to the general public, I think it sort of
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 10:28 PM by barb162
died by itself. People sort of tuned out even though the media was doing a lot of reporting on it. Reagan should have been impeached for it but he smiled his way out of it, like he did everything else. The public bought his crap as usual.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
151. How in the hell in the name of all that is good did "we the people" ever
wind back here with all of these criminals back in charge?

I just want a god damned answer! How in the hell did we let this happen?

I'm mad and I want answers.

aHH, YES, I Remember now, it is the Bush Family Criminal Enterprise.

They go way, way back. They helped with World War II right, they helped Hitler.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #151
157. How did we end-up back with these guys in power?
Just look at the CAFTA vote, same principle. The Dem party has some that have been bought, their votes are for sale.

Poppy should have had his hide nailed to the wall, and he was allowed to walk. Same with his minions. Thats how they survived to get power back through stealing elections.

Sure, I am hot at the Republicans, but at least we know where they stand. It's the turncoat Dems that bother me the most. With friends like this, who needs enemies?

I realize we need as many as we can get, but some people cannot be trusted. If we cannot trust them, then its maybe better to not even have them in our party.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #157
158. Pretty much how they got us to attack a country that didn't attack us.
They've taken over the media. Even though they maintain that "liburl media" fiction, by relentless propaganda for over 20-30 years, they've brainwashed a significant number of rubes with hyperbole and outright lies to gain political support.

And since they've allied themselves with large corporate interests, they have oodles of money to play with.

I'm afraid this isn't going to change until it gets so much worse, and Joe Six-Pack wakes up.

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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
165. Thanks for the info. At the time, I was still a Republican and my brother
BEGGED me to draw a picture of Ollie North so we could make "Oliver North for President" T-shirts to sell at the fair.

:eyes:

Even then I wasn't too happy about the whole thing. I was a huge Reagan fan when I was in high school, but he lost his shine for me when I was in college. It's hard to believe I ever supported those bozos. Geez. Growing up is hard.
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