How much fuel does Nascar guzzle in any given week?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

I'm SICK of "the troops" supporting the gluttonous habit of these flag-waving, phony patriots. Didn't some Saudi muckety-muck just say that by the year 2015, OPEC would no longer be able to quench the West's thirst for oil (at the levels we're accustomed to) and that it's time to consider conservation? That's 10 short years away...

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. Far less than commuters in one major city on one day...

drivers in LA, or Atlanta, probably use more fuel in a day than NASCAR consumes in a MONTH...maybe a year. If you're seriously worried about NASCAR, your priorities are misplaced. THe average American is more responsible for gas-guzzling.

[The Stranger]

5. But NASCAR is a waste.

Commuters in a major city are mostly regular folks trying to get to work to put some food on the table.

NASCAR is a mass of cars literally driving in a circle, faster and faster to nowhere, and sponsored by tobacco, big oil, and now the military.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. Even so...

are you going to say that money spent on widening roads and so on wouldn't be BETTER spent on mass transit? Better to reduce the amount of driving people do, yes? Get rid of NASCAR, and you've made essentially NO impact on oil consumption. Make people drive less, and you're getting somewhere. Unless you think symbolic gestures that don't accomplish anything are GOOD, that is.

[Xtreme]

16. There are a gazillion wasteful things

I bet you could name something you like and a few could point out its short comings.

[klyon]

56. that is so true

I heard it cost almost $100 million to repair or replace the cars crashed in one week-end at a Nascar event. Can't remember which track it was? Famous for crashes. Darlington?

KL

[WorseBeforeBetter]

6. Nascar is for entertainment; commuting is for livelihood. (n/t)

[ellenfl]

9. nascar is not entertainment to the drivers, crews and

support staff that make their lving from it. how about grounding air force one (and two?). that should save a lot of fuel. or maybe we could shut down the plastics industry.

ellen fl

[WorseBeforeBetter]

15. Perhaps the drivers, crew, and support staff could find...

gainful employment in the military. I hear they're looking for good people.

[danalytical]

34. Who needs sports

Lets shut down Major League Baseball, all those people in the stands must have had to drive to get there, its a waste of our collective oil.

While we are at it lets stop allowing people to buy cars, and instead have government approved rationed cars based on the size of the family unit.

We can also shutdown the highways on the weekends to help discourage weekend recreational traveling.

That would be double plus good, heh brother.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. Two words: Mass transit. (n/t)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

21. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive...

beef up mass transit and cut back on waste.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. Best way to cut back on waste...

is to reduce the amount of time people spend idling in traffic and the distances they drive. Which means viable mass transit, commuter rail, buses, and so on.

[One_Life_To_Give]

45. My only problem with mass transit

(Other than it usually doesn't go where I want to, when I want to)
Is the average fuel consumption per passenger mile. If I put 3 people into a small SUV, I get better performance than using a average public transit system.

[MindPilot]

48. You are correct sir.

I could take the bus to work. But why would I turn a 30-minute commute into a 90-minute one? If there is a traffic jam, I'm still stuck in it, and it would actually cost me more in bus fare than gas.

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. Wrong.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about; commuter rail is the most energy/fuel-efficient means of transport, and commuter rail networks are generally electric, not diesel; as to buses, it's true that they average about two miles per gallon, but that's carrying forty to sixty passengers. Which makes them much more efficient per passenger mile than a 10-15mpg SUV carrying three to six people.

[One_Life_To_Give]

51. Except Buses log many miles empty

Yes a fully loaded bus is more efficient. But in order to accomplish that, you need 40 people all wanting to go to the same place at the same time. During peak hours it works. But off peak a Bus may have only two or three passengers on it. You have to average out the total fuel consummed during all of the day against the total number of passenger miles.

[sintax]

90. for comparison

an f-16 uses more fuel in one hours flight than the average US motorist uses in two years of driving.

www.warresisters.org

[DS1]

95. I'd wager that NASCAR actually SAVES Gasoline. How?

All those hours that millions of people spend watching a long ass NASCAR race, guess what, they aren't driving anywhere.

[kid a]

2. theres a good challenge - NASCAR pedal cars

[The Icon Painter]

24. LOL

Now there is an image to conjure by. All those macho red-necks, swathed in their advertisement laden garments, hunched down over their teeny steering wheels, pedaling their little hearts out. That I would pay to see. :9

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

3. Good question. nt

[gmoney]

4. I'd bet fans GOING to the race guzzle more...

...but I really dislike Nascar. Wouldn't shed a tear if it was shut down.

:hide:

[Peregrine]

101. But it is still less than what is used by Football fans going to

the games.

If there is a legitimate gripe about Nascar and its fuel is that it still uses leaded gas and has been fighting the EPA's attempt to force them to unleaded.

[G_j]

7. or how much does the military guzzle?

and pollute for that matter?

[ret5hd]

17. i read somewhere (have no link) ...

that one hour in an f-16 uses as much oil as an average u.s.'er uses in 2 years...

and the u.s. navy uses 16% of the worlds deisel supply.

[eternalburn]

8. Another question...

Why make regular-joe cars that go very fast when there are speed limits?

[ellenfl]

67. these aren't regular joe cars. they are not made by the automakers

but by the shops of the owners. i'm not positive, but i believe they only use the chassis from the automaker. then they modify it and add their own engine and body.

ellen fl

[Ikonoklast]

99. Entirely custom made

especially the chassis.

[eternalburn]

128. I posed the question regarding......

...regular cars that everyday people drive on everyday streets. Why make a car that can go 125 if the speed limit only goes as high as 65?

I know that race cars are custom, not factory :)

[YOY]

10. How many brain cells does it guzzle up?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

14. No kidding. Predominantly fat, sweaty white guys...

sitting in the blistering heat watching cars go round and round in circles for hours. Unfortunately, they vote and are deciding our fates.

[YOY]

27. No complex rules to follow...

Inebriation generally allows even the stupidest of the masses enjoying high-octane-induced euphoria.

Unlike baseball, Am. Football, Soccer, or most other sports. :sarcasm:

[ArkDem]

28. That's for sure! I've never seen a drunk at a baseball or football

game!

[Coventina]

29. Yeah! Those Cubbie fans are models of sobriety

:D


Seriously, I once saw a college psychology textbook that used a photo of the Wrigley Field bleachers as the illustration of the section titled: Alcoholism.
:rofl:

[YOY]

32. But have you ever seen one at a chess tournament?

or synchronized swimming?
fencing?
cycling?

I'd pay to see that.

an exception to the rule would be caber tossing...I'm pretty sure you have to be stupefied to both partake and to watch.

I often forget to put in a :sarcasm:...sorry for the appearance of faulty logic.

[hfojvt]

98. other than parents, spouses and other contestants

there are very few spectators at a chess tournament. Could you see a huge crowd of cheering fans "Kasparov takes the bishop and the crowd goes crazy!!" :bounce: :bounce: "Polger loses a pawn and calls time-out, she still has two left."

They sure would have to speed the tanj things up. Like ten minutes on each clock, best of seven. "Here's the slow motion replay of the knight taking the queen!"

[YOY]

119. Now that I'd love to see

Sounds like a Monty Python sketch

[Yupster]

126. The way I've been playing chess lately,

I may as well down a few before the game.

[Mike Daniels]

86. One thing NASCAR has over the other sports you listed

is that their fans generally don't act like criminal minded drunken idiots after the event and riot and destroy personal property after their "team" wins the national championship.

[jayfish]

114. Your Right, They...

do it on the infield the Fri. and Sat. before the race. Well not quite that bad. It is a good time though.

NASCAR fan and proud

Jay

[YOY]

117. True

but most NASCAR events don't take place in the centers of modern metropoli.

...and no I've seen Daytona...it is not a modern metropolis....more like a tourist trap.

[ellenfl]

68. excuse me?! actually, i think you'll

find that the average race-goer is (what used to be called) middle class. lower income people cannot afford to go. oh, and btw, 40% of the audience is female (including me). i attend 2 races a year and one weekend costs me at least $1,000.00 when you factor in air fare, car rental and hotels with the prices jacked WAY up and a 3-night minimum stay.

nascar may be considered a predominantly southern 'good ole boy' sport, but i think that is a mis-identification. the nascar attendees that i know are mostly professional people, not blue collar.

ellen fl

[WorseBeforeBetter]

72. So, are "professional" people superior to...

"blue collar"? This isn't a class issue. It's an issue of the country being "AT WAR" and the country not being asked to sacrifice ANYTHING. Just the soldiers and their families.

[ellenfl]

84. no, my point was that nascar fans cover a broad spectrum of the

economic 'classes' of this country. furthermore, i think that the repugs cultivating of this group won't bear fruit for them. too many unknowable unknowns!

ellen fl

[QC]

111. "This isn't a class issue."

Please see post #110.

[ellenfl]

125. i was responding to post #14. sorry, shouldn't have continued

the hijack. :shrug:

ellen fl

[QC]

127. I wasn't responding to you.

Was responding to the original poster of the thread.

[ellenfl]

129. oh. boy am i confused! eom

[jayfish]

115. Don't Forget The New England.

and mid-western tracks. They are some of the funnest to watch races on.

Jay

[rinsd]

91. I'm so glad we're beyond stereotypes.....

...christ I don't watch NASCAR. I don't like it but why do people feel the need to slam it. I just don't get it?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

103. If the stereotype fits...

I slam it because I think it's incredibly wasteful. Aren't we in a war for oil? Should oil be conserved or used for sport?

[rinsd]

105. "if the stereotype fits"....

... If you don't know why that's wrong then I would consider another site.

"I slam it because I think it's incredibly wasteful."

As compared to what? Do you have any idea how many "frivilous" products contain petroleum?

"Aren't we in a war for oil? Should oil be conserved or used for sport?"

So you go for an "easy" target because most people here dislike NASCAR rather than make substantial suggestions like raising CAFE etc etc.

But hey they're all a bunch of dumb hicks that vote against their interests....geee I wonder why they would do something like that.

[ellenfl]

124. that looks like bristol. where'd ya get the pic? eom

[QC]

107. "why do people feel the need to slam it"

To declare their superiority over The Great Unwashed (particularly the Southern branch). Simple.

[Xtreme]

13. I dont think there was ever a study?

NASCAR still raced during the 70's oil crisis.

22 gallon tanks (13 on super speedways), average four tanks a race plus thirty six races.

Do the math<--- Michael Waltrip

[GiovanniC]

135. The Math

3,168 gallons of fuel. Per car. Per year.

I commute about 25 miles one way to work each day. I get about that many miles to the gallon. So I use two gallons per day, about 261 working days per year. 522 gallons just on the commute. I also go home to Michigan pretty frequently and my wife's family lives in Alabama (we're in Kentucky). So we travel quite a bit -- I don't think we approach 3,168 gallons per year, but...

[punpirate]

18. I think your objections to this are more related...

... the symbology of NASCAR than its fuel use.

As others have suggested, one big traffic jam on the 405 consumes a lot more fuel than NASCAR does on a weekend. But, to give you some idea, there's thirty-three cars on the grid, and if all finish, at an average fuel consumption of about 4 mpg, one 500-mile race consumes a bit over 4000 gallons. Add in testing time during the week, and one might get a total usage of perhaps 6000 gallons.

There are about forty races per year, so that's a total 240,000 gallons in a season, the equivalent of about 6000 barrels of crude oil per year. For comparison, the US as a whole uses not quite 21 million barrels of oil per day.

There's probably more fuel used just moving cars and teams from place to place.

By contrast, if there's a two- or three-hour slowdown on I-405 in LA during rush hour (which is not uncommon), there might be 20,000 cars involved, and it can take a driver perhaps 60-90 minutes to go ten miles. With all the starting and stopping, gas consumption might be around 4-5 mpg. So, 20,000 cars getting 5 mpg over ten miles is a couple of gallons per--about 40,000 gallons for that one rush-hour crush in one big city--not quite seven times what NASCAR uses for one race.

I'm not a big fan of NASCAR, but one has to look at these things realistically.

Cheers.

[Xtreme]

19. Awestruck

Pretty much sums it up

[ellenfl]

69. actually, there are 43 cars on the track . . . at least at the beginning.

[punpirate]

71. Well, I haven't watched in a good long while...

... it always used to be eleven rows of three abreast.

Cheers.

[Telly Savalas]

77. 6000 gallons for a single NASCAR race...

compared to 17,000 gallons for a single trans-continental flight. ( http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/new_articles.cfm?articleID=219&journalID=47 )

[frylock]

85. well played..

please pick up your lollipop at the front counter. :thumbsup:

[punpirate]

100. I wonder about those figures...

... because real-world mileage figures from one operator (Northwest) give a figure slightly less than 8 gpm.

Note, too, that they say a 747's mileage is 6.7 mpg. Nope--it's gpm.

It's still not the big consumer in transportation. I think the mileage of the Queen Elizabeth 2 gets about fifty feet to the gallon. About 433 tons of diesel fuel per day. :wow:

[One_Life_To_Give]

20. Not as much as the fans at a Baseball game

The Fans traveling into and out of just 1 game at Fenway park burn more fuel than Nextel Cup cars will burn in a week. And Baseball (Basketball, Football, Soccer, etc) serves no purpose greater than Nascar.

[SidDithers]

35. Fans go to Nascar races too...

so your comparison example is a bit off.

Sid

[One_Life_To_Give]

44. Fenway Commuters, 15,000gals per game

Concidering that the effective fuel efficiency for cars and mass transit are both less then 20MPG. And an estimated average commute to a game of only 5 miles. Putting 30,000 fans in the stands at Fenway takes 15,000 gals. With around 90 Home games a year, would be 1.35 million gallons. Nascar could run 40 races a year for only 0.16 million gallons.

The solution is simple. Only allow people to watch sports on TV.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

55. delete

nm

[One_Life_To_Give]

58. Candlestick, or whatever it is called now?

But then I would have to guess what the average commute would be. 20 Miles? Maybe 30, round trip average. Say 90,000 gallons per game. 8.1 Million gallons per season.

[SidDithers]

65. Nascar commuters...300,000 gals for every race

~ 40 Nacar races, avg of 200,000 fans per race, run out in the boonies where fans have a longer commute, call it 15 miles.

Using your calculations, Putting 200,000 fans in the stands takes 300,000 gals. for each race.

You're comparing apples to oranges. What you should say, is that Nascar could run 40 races a year for only 0.16 million gallons, and MLB could play 5000 games a year for only 1 million gallons of Gatorade, because the ballplayers, unlike the racing cars, don't actully use any gasoline.

Sid

Edit: nevermind

[ellenfl]

76. 200,000 seats? what track do you go to! eom

[SidDithers]

88. 100,000 maybe? Can't say I'm a fan....

:)

Point remains the same, though. Both sports have fans, so you can't compare fuel consumption by fans of baseball vs fuel consumed by Nacar racing cars.

Thanks for the correction. :hi:

Sid

[One_Life_To_Give]

96. But race fuel consumption

is trivial by comparison. So what is the point of complaining about 4000 gals. If we don't care about the bigger uses?

[jayfish]

116. That Wasn't The Point Of The Original OP Though. -NT-

Jay

[MadHound]

23. Well, given that different races are different lengths,

It is tough to come up with an all encompassing average. However the most common number of miles run on a race is 500, so based on that, and the fact that your average NASCAR racer gets aprox. 6mpg, then on a typical weekend, a NASCAR race car goes through somewhere around 83.3 gallons of gas. This is the figure for one car, on race day. In the days proceding a race, qualifying laps are run, engines tested, etc. etc, thus insuring even more fuel is burned

However what is even more appalling is the amount of pollution these gas guzzlers emit. First, even though these vehicles are called "stock", don't let that label fool you. The catalytic converter has been removed, mufflers have been replaced with glass packs or straight pipes, they use high octane fuel, and many other modifications are made to enhance the power of these vehicles at the expense of pollution controls. So much pollution is released that the one time I've been near a NASCAR track while racing was going on there, the stadium had a fairly thick brownish blue haze drifting out of it. Even non-NASCAR tracks are serious pollution producers.

Is this a waste? I suppose it depends on the eye of the beholder. For those who are NASCAR fans, no, it isn't a waste. It is great entertainment and sport. For those who dislike NASCAR, then yes, it is a huge waste. Myself, I take a pragmatic view of the matter. Racing has been around as a sport for milinia. Foot races, horse races, bike races, motorcycle races, car races, plane races, etc. etc. have always been around. Personally, I've never been a big race fan of any sort except for bike races, and even then only when I was participating in one. However being a car buff(especially antique cars), I can understand the attraction to the sport. For me the most fascinating factor of car racing is the pit crew, but hey, I'm a gearhead.

One thing to remember about racing, any racing. That is that any racing sport is not only there to provide entertainment, but also to improve whatever is being raced. If it is a foot race, then that sport pushes forward the frontiers of human endurance and training. Horse racing improves the breeding methods, training and endurance of horses. And the same thing applies to cars and NASCAR. Many many vehicle improvements got their first big tests on race tracks. So in that sense, it isn't a waste. It brings you better tires, better brakes, better handling, etc. etc.

That the sports fan base is dominated by Republican voters is really neither here nor there. Most of are large market sports have a majority of their fan base voting Republican. This does not effect my personal decision on whether or not I wish to watch or participate. I decide on my own personal aesthetics. Thus, I don't watch NASCAR because I find it quite boring, same with golf, and to a lesser extent baseball. I do enjoy football a great deal, and that too has a majority 'Pug fan base. But to base your decision on whether or not to enjoy a sport based on political factors I think is foolish and petty. Politics and the fan base change all the time, it is sport itself that should determine whether or not you like it. If you don't find cars going around and around entertaining, don't watch. But don't disregard a sport just because of the politics of the fan base.

[Coventina]

25. Here we go again with the attack on motorsports

Every month or so someone "decides" that some form of motor-racing (usually NASCAR) should be eliminated because it's a waste of gas.

Do you drink out of plastic bottles? That's a waste of gas.

Do you drive to the grocery store instead of growing your own food?
That's a waste of gas (you driving and also having the food trucked to your local store).

Do you attend ANY sort of sporting events? The symphony? The theatre? That's a waste of gas.

The bottom line is, our ENTIRE SOCIETY is oil addicted.

NASCAR is a waste of a lot of things, gas included. But to say it should be shut down is revealing of one's own personal preference, and not helping the overall problem.

[MindPilot]

26. Again with the NASCAR bashing

*uhhh whine* It's white guys, it uses fuel, it's corporate money, it pollutes, it's dangereous. *uhh whine*

What else can you find to whine about? NHRA? Motorcycle racing? CART? F1? Anything that involves white men?

A NASCAR car gets 5-10 mpg, but unlike your Volvo on which the turn signals don't work, it will do that at 200mph.

[jayfish]

118. I Have Learned To Just Have Fun With It...

and watch the races on Sunday. NASCAR isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.

Jay

[KittyWampus]

30. Somewhat Less Than The US Fighter Jets& Helicopters & Vehicles In Iraq

[WeRQ4U]

31. Point the finger elsewhere.... It aint NASCAR you should be worried about.

It's the American public, it's the American ideals.

And why must every discussion regarding NASCAR turn into some elitist slam-fest. It's so lame. Football and boxing are just as ridiculous as NASCAR. What, do you guys sit around watching Horse Jumpting and Polo all day? To each his own.

[ragin_acadian]

33. ideals - exactly,

but i think that nascar is indicative of american ideals: it's a pointless, wasteful, non-sport, and a gigantic advertising and marketing ploy to boot....consume, consume.

it does not resemble football or boxing in any way. those two sports require training and athletic ability.

i don't think i am being elitist when i say that nascar has as much appeal to me as toad shit.

[Coventina]

36. You don't think race car driving requires training and athletic ability?

Now, I hate NASCAR just as much as the next cultural elitist, but I know for a darn fact that those drivers are the result of YEARS of intense training and they are VERY athletic.

Don't believe me? Go participate in your local SCCA autocross event and then come back and tell me it doesn't take training and strength to drive in anger.

[ragin_acadian]

39. okay,

so they might do chinups and squeeze tennis balls to strengthen their grip on the steering wheel. they might spend years driving in a circle.....but driving in anger - hell, i do that!


i'm sure they train just as hard as Oscar DeLaHoya :sarcasm:

[Coventina]

40. Paul Tracy (a top Champ Car driver) trains with Lance Armstrong

You are embarrassing yourself with your ignorance.

[WeRQ4U]

54. You haven't got a clue.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4243400

Read this. I suppose you'll dismiss it as an unreliable source, whatever.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

81. LOL...sounds like you've done time on the DC Beltway? (n/t)

[ragin_acadian]

106. haven't done the DC Beltway yet,

but i've done Atlanta a few times. maybe i should get someone to sponsor my car next time i drive through?

on edit:

wow, i can't believe the angst generated by this thread! it's like i was talking about someones mother or something!

[WeRQ4U]

37. Come on now.

Have you ever seen an out of shape NASCAR or INDY racer? THey are in extremely good shape. The conditions present inside one of those cars have got to be off the charts. You can't be some fat guy with a bad heart and drive one of those things.

As for requiring "Training"... do you think you could drive one of these things at about HALF the speed they drive at? Believe me, you couldn't. It's not something you just decide to do one day, it requires LOTS of learned skill.

Believe me, I don't like NASCAR either.... but that's because I think it's boring. It's not for me. But denigrating its participants, simply because you do not understand it, is well...............republican-like. I know you're better than that.

[ragin_acadian]

41. right.

i'm sure they have a daily training regimen that looks exactly like the montages fromt the Rocky films.

carrying 6x6 beams on their shoulders, eating raw eggs. beating up a side of beef.

nah. they probably train as much as golf pro's do. all i'm arguing is that you cannot equate nascar to a contact sport. that's like comparing bowling to tennis or soccer.

[Coventina]

43. As a matter of fact, many drivers DO have training regimens like that

You obviously do not know what you are talking about.

Please educate yourself before passing judgement.

[WeRQ4U]

52. You have no clue what you're talking about.

For starters, here is an article written by NBC sports on this very topic. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4243400

Just google the topic and you'll find more.

[salcero]

122. This is how I know they are athletes

There is an example I try and use for those that claim racing drivers are not athletes. Anyone who has been in a serious accident knows how incredibly sore you are the next day, even if you are not actually injured in the accident. I've been in 2 major accidents and luckily I walked away from both of them, but in both cases I was so incredibly sore the next morning that I could barely lift myself out of bed.

Racing drivers however are often involved in much more serious accidents than you're likely to ever be in or survive on the street. Yet even after these horrendous accidents they are back in a racing car either later the same day or the next morning. Your body just can not recover that quickly unless you are in top physical condition.

[LSK]

61. you sit in a non airconditioned car with no ventilation on a 95 degree day

For 5 hours, then come talk to us about how out of shape they are.

[TX-RAT]

38. I'm sorry, i thought you were talking about the movie industry

(it's a pointless, wasteful, non-sport, and a gigantic advertising and marketing ploy to boot....consume, consume.)

[MindPilot]

42. Boxing...two people beating each other up

now that's a SPORT! :sarcasm:

[dr.zoidberg]

62. Yeah, let's all pile on boxing.

As far as I'm concerned boxing, kickboxing, and MMA will always exist. Remember, when the little games of the past are gone and forgotten, people will fight with their fists for money.
The way I see it, no one is forcing any body to fight. The two fighters in the ring have consciously made the decision to enter the ring. They also know the possible consequences of the sport that hey are engaged in. Namely, severe injury and possibly death. Of course, this also is a real possibility for example in football, auto racing, and rugby.

[MindPilot]

63. Boxing or any fighting "sport" is different.

In racing, baseball, football, rock-climbing, skydiving whatever, the object is to score the most points, win the race, climb the highest, etc. Any death or injury is incidental to the activity.

In boxing, the object is to literally physically injure or kill your opponent.

It's as barbaric as cockfighting and has no place in civilized society. Saying the participants choose to do be involved doesn't change that.

Why don't we just replace the fists with guns? Or swords? Is it because it most cases the crowds can't actually see the injury, so that makes it more palatable?

[dr.zoidberg]

64. I don't think it will ever be banned.

Combat sports has been around for a very long time. In some countries, such as Thailand and Japan, they are part of the culture of the country. The object in boxing is not definitely not to kill your opponent. Sure, you can win by KO, which is difficult to do. Typically, the fights go to decisions. The object is to win, not kill. Besides killing someone with your fists is very difficult.

[theboss]

47. So, you are cool with people beating each other to death?

Boxing is not a sport that's particularly easy to defend.

[MindPilot]

46. No they'd whine about that being a violation of the horses' rights

The elitists who want to slam NASCAR and its fans seem perfectly okay with spending their afternoons watching a bunch of <insert racial minority slur here> chasing a ball around. Nevermind that said participants had no other educational option to get ahead and only by virtue of their athletic ability are they able make a decent living. But that's okay; it's only exploiting people of color and it doesn't involve fossil fuels.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

79. Nowhere in my initial post did I mention "class."

While driving recently to NC via VA, I noticed the $$$$ SUVs and pickup trucks on their way to some big Nascar race off of 95 (Petersburg maybe?). It's not about class - it's about the country being "at war" for O-I-L and the country not being asked to sacrifice. Only the men and women of the military seem to be making sacrifices.

[QC]

112. Yet your own feelings in class come through bright and clear. n/t

[LSK]

50. so slamming the biggest sport in the country wins votes how???

Please, Id really love someone to explain this to me. WE HAVE TO WIN FVCKING ELECTIONS to do anything 1st.

When you slam NASCAR, you are slamming its fans who number probably 100million. WAY TO GO WITH TURNING AWAY 100million voters.

Instead, maybe democrats should find someway into the NASCAR community.

[WeRQ4U]

53. But calling them fat, white, swetty pigs isn't elitist.............

Right....:eyes:

It's so lame. I get so tired of it as well.

[ProfessorGAC]

57. A Myth

Sorry, but NASCAR's own numbers don't support that statement.

They don't have 100 million fans. Nowhere close.

They show the highest attendance PER event in American sports. But, they don't show the highest ratings, week to week. (Good, but not the highest.) Their own numbers indicate about 45 million, so it's quite a bit lower than your estimate.

Remember that while a NASCAR race is taking place, there is just the one Cup event. So, all the fans of the sport who can make it MUST GO TO THAT ONE RACE! Simultaneous to that, there are 15 or 16 baseball games taking place. Put 25,000 people in each of those parks, and there are 400,000 people watching a baseball game. How many races are taking place in front of more than 400k people?

Combine the total viewership for all those baseball games, and the TV numbers for the race are equally dwarfed.

I'm not bashing NASCAR, but the reason to not bash it is not because it's the most popular sport. Their own numbers (attendance and ratings) don't support that.
The Professor

[WeRQ4U]

60. I see your point. But here's my point.

Isn't that kind of splitting hairs?

When liberals immediately dismiss NASCAR and motorsports in general, because of the misconception that ALL fans and drivers are fat, sweatyy, red neck, hillbillies, does it really matter whether the number they are pissing off is 100 million or 45 million. The point is, this debate is biased, misinformed and elitist. And it sucks. It's this type of thread that prompts fans of this type of sport to vote republican.

But why do they think that the Republican Right falls any closer to their own ideals? Do you really think the vast majority of rich, right wing christians, actully LIKE NASCAR? Probably not. But the difference between their party and this one, is that their members do not bash it, based on superficial bullshit, clothed in some see-through debate on wastefulness and global warming. Hmmmmm, if I was a NASCAR fan, who would I vote for. THAT's the point.

[rinsd]

94. Don't forget to stereotype them too!

"Instead, maybe democrats should find someway into the NASCAR community."

Judging from the atttitude prevalent on this board of "if I don't like it, it is unworthy and I must ridicule it", the NASCAR vote is gonna be a tough one. People wonder while working class white males vote against Democrats....the attitude you see here is part of the reason.

Maybe we're not as vicious and myopic as freepers but we sure can be as petty.

[Algorem]

121. Let's cram the empty oil tankers full of these goobers ,

it'll help the trade deficit,the A-rabs can make Soylent Green out of the suffocated goobers and the U.S.A. will evolve quickly without these goobers.

[newportdadde]

59. If you don't like Nascar thats fine but dont wrap it in an gas rant.

Every now and then one of these posts comes along that flames Nascar. Look I'm not crazy about the sport but lets be honest its not taking up that much fuel and its an even that a lot of people enjoy, including a lot of Democratic voters.

I think the NBA playoffs with .500 record teams and playoffs that go on forever is dumb too.. but its peoples right to spend their money and time how they see fit.

Much bigger fish to fry then Nascar and ranting about it just helps fuel that liberal = snob stereotype.

[Mr_Spock]

75. I agree

I drag race as a hobby - leave us the fuck alone narrow thinking people. Heck, a lot of Nascar rednecks are morons, but don't lump all auto hobbyists into one group!

[MindPilot]

104. I guess since NHRA is not from the south,

CART & F1 have drivers with hard to pronounce European names, those are okay.

[Mr_Spock]

120. LOL - yeah!

You forgot :sarcasm:

[DrGonzoLives]

66. Of course, if you were serious

You would include Formula One, Grand Prix, etc., in your worthless little diatribe, but those are nice, safe, elitist events that you probably like, right?

[Mr_Spock]

82. That animation is disgustingly funny!

Is that the OP thinking about NASCAR? :rofl:

[WorseBeforeBetter]

87. Wrongo - not a fan of any of them. Whether racing through...

the streets of Monaco or on some track in North Carolina.

[ThomWV]

70. Less Fuel Than Obese People Waiting At The Driveup

Window of McDonalds around the country.

Its not that much fuel really. But if it makes you mad why not also get rid of all the other wasteful uses, recreational boating being the next biggest I suppose, and then maybe something like kids go-karts.

[Mr_Spock]

73. I race as a hobby - hardly any fuel compared to sprawl commuting

Leave us hobby/sport people alone!!

[Dawgs]

74. Another NASCAR hating thread...

Can we end this shit already? Some of us love NASCAR, so enough of the "I hate NASCAR cause it's just a bunch of southern right-wing rednecks" threads.

[Mr_Spock]

78. I agree - I almost want to put this person on ignore for this thread alone

This is NOT the way to make friends around here. I drag race and I generally don't like the NASCAR culture, but I am not going to criticize NASCAR just because some of my enemy like them.

[oasis]

83. This thread is about fossil fuel waste. You're imagination is taking you

in a different direction.

[QC]

109. We get this same damn thread every week or two.

Some people never get tired of it. Simple pleasures for simple minds, I guess.

[oasis]

80. NASCAR tracks are temples of combustible engine worship.

[Strawman]

89. Counterproductive, diversionary culture bashing

Republicans tell red staters that liberals hate their way of life and they try really hard to coopt shit like NASCAR. And what do we do in response? Make fun of people for liking it, imply that we'd like to see it abolished and in turn fuel the Repugs horseshit diversionary tactics.

What do you hope to accomplish by this besides letting off steam? Wouldn't it be better to attempt to find common ground with people who like NASCAR (e.g. pointing out things like fuel prices are too high, I want cleaner air and water, and it would be nice not to have to drive everywhere all the time).

I understand where you're coming from and think there is validity in your critique of NASCAR's symbolic celebration of gas guzzling engines, but as a political tactic, I don't think such critiques are very effective. I'm not saying you have to like it (I don't know anything about it), but why go after it like that?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

93. Because as my sister-in-law's brother prepares to be shipped...

back to Iraq and my brother waits for word about whether he'll be deployed to the Middle East (for the 4th time...), I've decided I've had it with fat and happy Americans who are making no sacrifices while the country is "at war." What drives fuel prices? Demand? Demand for cars to drive around in circles for entertainment purposes? My point is that Nascar talks that "support the troops" bullshit, but how is it really supporting the troops?

[Strawman]

97. It's not at all. You're absolutely right.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be so critical. I didn't read through the entire thread, so I didn't know about your brother or your sister-in-law's brother. I hope that they remain safe and that this terrible war can somehow be brought to an end as soon as possible.

But I do think going after people for liking racing is not going to stop this war. I think it just makes people feel defensive, like they are being judged and that makes them more likely reject our ideas. Telling people about your brother's and your sister-in-law's brother's sacrifices, on the other hand, might make them think twice about the cost of their gas guzzling ways and the entertainment that glorifies it.

That being said, you have every right to blow off some steam about this war. If I had a loved one over there, I wouldn't be worried about stepping on the toes of those who celebrate the mentality that put my loved one in harm's way and neither should you. You have every right to call out these hypocrites.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

102. Thank you. I probably should have provided more info in the original...

post, but as I opened my mail this a.m. and saw pics of a family get-together while sis-in-law's brother is home on leave, I was literally shaking with anger. The wife's expression was really strained and the poor kids (2 sons) looked so sad.

[sintax]

92. Compared to

the US military NASCAR is a drop in the bucket. But I totally agree with your sentiment. Loud, polluting, wasteful and fuel(ish).

An f-16 uses more fuel in one hours flight than the average american motorist uses in two years driving

US Navy uses 16% of the world's diesel fuel

An Abrams tank gets four GALLONS TO THE MILE

Pentagon requisitioned 7.5 BILLION gallons of fuel for IRAQ war for year 2005. Will use more as it will obtain more fuel from other sources.

www.warresisters.org

[Kraklen]

108. The amount burnt by the race...

Is probably less than the amount consummed by the fans driving to the race.

That said, NASCAR sucks ass.

[QC]

110. There are over 16,000 golf course in the U.S. How much fuel is needed

to maintain them? (And that's to say nothing of the chemicals and the wasted water.) How much fuel is burned flying yuppies to exotic destination spots? How much gas is burned up getting affluent New Yorkers out to the Hamptons on the weekend? What about commuters who work in the city but live way out in McMansion developments?

It's interesting how selective (and transparent) your outrage is.

[alfredo]

113. Nascar is going unleaded. They use SUNOCO gas.

Sun oil only uses west African light crude. It has less sulfur so it is easier and cheaper to refine. If it ever came down to it, NASCAR could change to Ethanol.


There might be some grits in the stands, but the crews are highly educated people. The shade tree mechanic days are long gone. There's too much money involved to leave anything to chance.

[Algorem]

123. They have these races on the radio now.How do you listen to cars go

around in circles on the fucking radio?And you can't see the crashes,the best part.Hoping to hear a dead guy on the radio?That doesn't work.You gotta see the dead guy.

[gulliver]

130. Negligible amount. Troll post?

I'll bet the tiniest increment in mileage standards would totally dwarf in one month the entire fuel cost of NASCAR for its entire history. That sense of proportion is what makes me think this might be a troll post. Why single out NASCAR when the real fuel economy issues have to do with Republicans taking payola from car companies to keep fuel efficiency standards off the books? Smacks of NASCAR baiting.

[QC]

132. This same thread gets posted every couple of weeks.

It's more or less identical every time. I don't think it's really trolling so much as using NASCAR as an indirect way to bash "regular folks," since doing it openly will, quite rightly, get people called on their classism. Better to put on a little enviro windowdressing. As I pointed out above, nobody ever seems to fret about how much fuel is burned up keeping golf courses nice or flying bourgeois white folks to Caribbean resorts, but they lie awake nights worrying about NASCAR wasting gas. It's silly, but there you have it.

[gulliver]

133. That's why I think it might be a troll post.

Bashing regular folks is not a Dem thing to do. Dems have nothing against NASCAR, but Repubs would like to make it seem that way.

[QC]

134. "Bashing regular folks is not a Dem thing to do."

There are always plenty of people here who take the bait, though. Maybe you're onto something.

[Quixote1818]

131. Don't Nascar cars use Ethanol?

If so then Nascar would be supporting our farmers.