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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:14 AM
Original message
LttE debunking a winger - your opinion
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 11:32 AM by Kelvin Mace
Here is the original letter I am responding to:

I was amused by Hunter Popalis's letter (Your View, 7/12) which stated "do not be misled by right-wing manipulations of fact."

Evidently, Popalis has no problem with being misled by left-wing manipulations of fact. His letter contained two facts along with a whole lot of speculation and opinion. What he claimed to be fact NO. 3 is actually an opinion.

I am writing for two reasons. First to say that right-wing or left-wing is irrelevant. The truth is what it is. The second reason is to dispel the myth that "nobody died when Clinton lied."

Popalis and many other Bush-haters claim that there were no American or NATO fatalities in Bosnia. That's wrong, but don't take my word for it. A search on the Internet will reveal the facts. However, finding the facts isn't easy. The liberal media did a good job of covering up for Clinton.

If you go to the Center for Defense Information Web site (http://www.cdi.org/) and search for document ID 508, you will see an article which states, "In Bosnia, land mines maimed or killed 50 NATO personnel. In fact, the first U.S. combat death in that campaign was caused by a land mine." Note the word "first."

Do any Bush-haters remember Commerce Secretary Ron Brown? He died in a plane crash along with 31 other Americans and three Europeans.

It is a fact that U.S. casualties were low in Bosnia, but they were not zero. Another fact is that the only reason casualties were so low is because Clinton used aerial bombardment. The same aerial bombardment that indiscriminately kills civilians in any war. How many civilians were killed by Clinton's bombing? Do Bush-haters care?

MIKE HUGHES



My response

I note that Mike Hughes' letter of 7/29/05 takes exception to the left-wing meme "No one died when Clinton lied."

He then goes on to cite the death of US troops in Bosnia and Commerce Secretary Ron Brown as examples that people did indeed die "when Clinton lied."

Mr. Hughes seems to misunderstand the context of the point he is "debunking".

When folks refer to Clinton's lie, they are referring to his petty parsing of words, "I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky."

As I recall, we did not dispatch troops to illegally invade another country as a result of that lie.

Mr. Bush's lie (or more correctly, "lies") was that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons and would soon have nuclear weapons and that would be used against America.

All of this was complete false, and as the Downing Street minutes proved, knowingly false.

So, by my count, Clinton's lie about sex cost not a single life nor a single dollar of our military budget. Bush's lie has cost 1,768 American their lives, has wounded at least 15,000, has killed 25,000+ Iraqi civilians and cost $183 billion so far, with another $80 billion allocated to pay for operations through Sept. 30th.

Being able to look up answers on the Internet is of dubious value if you don't understand the question.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent
Although http://icasualties.org/oif/ puts the US death toll in Iraq currently at 1791.

:evilfrown:
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I was going by the AP tally
Didn't want to be accused of using "partisan" sites. :)
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'd also point out that Clinton's actions in Bosnia were
pursuant to our treaty obligations under NATO and were undertaken to stop ongoing genocide.

Mr. Bush's actions against Iraq were contrary to our treaty obligations and the reason for those actions has changed so frequently that nobody knows for sure what the reason was anymore.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I did, but had to cut it to keep under the
250 word count.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Alrighty then :) You're a step ahead of me :). n/t
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. That is a very good response
In my mind - Bushies seem to enjoy making irrelevant comparisions, I've noticed.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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hwmnbn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. excellent.......
Clear thinking always trumps misinformation. You pointed out his inferred lie, and then zapped him with the simple truth. RW bushbots hate when that happens. They may go on to other lies but they KNOW they've been busted. Great work!
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Your closing sentence is the kicker
:thumbsup:
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. One significant point, though - Clinton NEVER said "I did not have sex..."
The whole point of the parsing was "I did not have sexual relations with...", as defined by Judge Wright.


OTOH, good use of "minutes" instead of memos!


/have nits, will pick

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Good catch
Thanks.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent response, but you need to correct a couple of things.
"All of this was complete false, .....", should be 'completely'. The current number of American lives lost is 1791.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks!
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