When in God's name did Conservatism become a virtue?

[LiberalEconomist]

I see it all over this board: "No, no, those are neocons, they are not TRUE conservatives." As if there is some redeeming quality of being conservative. Conservatism breeds cowardice. Conservatism breeds bigotry. When was the last time you heard of a Liberal KKK member?

Then you get these ape apples pounding their chests: "I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal." Whaaaaaatttt?? The two things are mutually exclusive. Fiscal conservative. You should be ashamed of yourself you greedy, selfish, assh***s.

Liberalism is a virtue. You hear me. LIBERALISM IS A VIRTUE. CONSERVATISM IS A VICE.

Oh and for the yahoos who equate liberalism with rapid change. Think again. Liberalism is about the advancement of humanity. It is about enlightenment. It is not about change for the sake of change.

To use a football analogy, conservatism would dictate running the ball on every down and kick a field goal from the opponent's one yard line, when your team is down by four points with ten seconds left on the clock.

Radicalism would advocate passing deep on every down, even when it is fourth and one from your own one-yard line.

Liberalism would call for a balanced running and passing attack.


Finally, the notion of liberal bias is just as meaningless as the notion of intelligence bias. Do you want to hear that maggots spontaneously erupt from rancid cheese? Do you want the perspective of ignorance?

Anyone who believes that their views are conservative are obligated to examine those beliefs until they convince themselves that they were stupid to hold them in the first place.

[izzie]

1. When they said it was but we know the truth

Any how who wants to return to the Middle ages with these people.

[Kipling]

2. If you're a conservative you probably think conservatism is a virtue.

QUOTE: "I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal." Whaaaaaatttt?? The two things are mutually exclusive. Fiscal conservative. You should be ashamed of yourself you greedy, selfish, assh***s.

That is a possible position to take. You can be pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, and anti-war and yet still support less taxes and welfare. It's odd, but possible.

[LiberalEconomist]

7. That is not social liberalism, that is social libertarianism

Social liberalism requires democratic justice, which in congruence requires that each and every individual be provided their basic needs. You call for pro-choice, which is fine. However, if you cut welfare programs, how are poor women going to exercise their choice.

[Kipling]

15. Um, well...

They could exercise their choice between the Bent Coathanger Method and the Hoover Method? I don't know, try to see it from the point of a crazed sociopathic yokel.

[lvx35]

3. Good point, I agree.

Liberalism is about advancing humanity. But at the same time, "know thy enemy" is good words too. Conservative principles never included big authoritarian government, or vast government spending as Bush has pushed. Conservativism may be a vice, but part of the vice is naivete which Bush exploits to sell his government to people whose actual beliefs aren't served by his government at all.

[LaurenG]

4. Some things about conservatives are virtuous

many of us have friends or family member who are conservatives. They are perfectly nice people except they vote "wrong" and NOT neocons.

Just because I don't agree with my parents political ideology doesn't make them un-virtuous. They believe Bush is crazy, they believe that his policies are wrong. They believe in the environment and strongly disagree with his stance on stem cell research, abortion and social security yet they believe the government should stay out of their lives thus they think they're conservative. They did vote for Bush along with many others I consider mis guided and gullible. There is your difference, they are not Bush republicans but they still think they're conservatives.

[lovelaureng]

6. I agree 110% with you. n\t

[LiberalEconomist]

9. I was very careful with what I wrote

I said that conservatism is a vice. I did not say conservatives have no virtue. The philosophy of conservatism is without any redeeming quality.

[LaurenG]

12. I see what you mean.

Not the conservatives themselves but the philosophy. Well then I have only one thing to say, I agree :headbang:

[phantom power]

5. It happens whenever people are afraid of the future

It's a form of wishful thinking. "If only we could get back to the good old days..."

[Orsino]

8. It depends upon what you're conserving.

Conserving a thirty-year-old history of reproductive freedom is worthwhile. Preserving Social Security, civil rights and democratic balloting--these are all good things.

The mere hoarding of wealth has no such virtue.

[LiberalEconomist]

13. I am not talking about the act of conserving

The connotations are quite different between conserving and "conservatism." Yes, conserving those things that promote social justice and human rights good things. Therefore they fall into the realm of liberalism. Conserving racial inequality or gender inequality on the other hand are encapsulated within the notion of conservatism.

[Orsino]

18. Only because civil rights for all is such a new concept.

If they hang around much longer, even Conservatives will have to admit that dismantling them is radical.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

10. when war became peace

[Solly Mack]

11. You ever seen the threads "What are your most conservative views?'

Mine used to be: I like the toilet paper to hang a certain way

But thanks to those threads I no longer worry about how the TP is hanging. I just print out the "What are your most conservative views?" posts and wipe my ass with them.

[LiberalEconomist]

14. AAAAH HAHAHAHAH!!

Now that is some funny shit....Oops, no pun intended.

[skids]

16. conservativism and liberalism are two abstract extremes.

And extremism, in either direction, is wrongheaded.

Despite your attempt, and that of many before you, both on the right and the left, to redifine the language in hypercharged political terms and make these terms into insults/badges of honor, I am not swayed. I think I'll keep the plain old English definition of the word.

Conservatives resist change and view it as dangerous. This is sometimes true -- society can only stand so much flux before it finds itself deep in uncharted waters with no coping mechanisms. That being said, social conservatism as practiced in the red states is extremism and thus wrongheaded.

Liberalism recognizes the need for change and advocates for it (sometimes carelessly.) This is sometimes true -- society must adapt to a changing environment, or it will suffer.

Now just because I speak English and not American Hype, doesn't mean I like the neocons or even the paleocons, nor do I believe them when they say they are primarily conservatives, because even the paleocons defy the basic tenets of conservativism on a frequent basis. What it means is that I like to have words that aren't insults at my disposal. As in, I like to have words in my vocabulary that mean something other than "enemy" or "freind" and I'm sick of having people try to jam words into those categories. It has never been, isn't, and will never be that simple.

[VOX]

17. It's the **term** conservative. It hasn't been damned like "liberal" has.

Conservatism in itself is not a virtue. But from a strict and historical standpoint, there is nothing traditionally conservative about those in power and their legion of enablers.

For example: A traditional conservative, having a strict interpretation of the constitution, would support freedom of speech for all. A traditional conservative would be foursquare for smaller government, and would be for lessening the influence it had over the life of the individual (this cuts in both good and bad directions, IMO). And certainly, a traditional conservative would stand for fiscal belt-tightening.

It's time to color the term "conservative" in a negative light, and not let it be used as casually and universally as it is now. The * administration is a pack of right-wing radicals and extremists. This point needs to be hit upon hard and often! :mad: