Randi on the October Surprise

[wli]

It seems I'm not getting the MIHOP on the hostage crisis from nowhere. Randi just made the claim herself. Is she a reliable source?

[Mythsaje]

1. She does a lot of speculation.

It's SMART speculation, a lot of the time, but speculative just the same.

[still_one]

2. what are you referring to?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

4. When Reagan was running against Carter, we had hostages being

held by Iran because we had backed the Shah. Reagan/Bush supposedly made a deal with Iran not release the hostages until after the election. They would then sell arms to Iran who had been at war with Iraq. And that is exactly what happened. Then those monies were given to the Contras in Nicaragua (which was illegal) to fight against the elected Sandanistas. Hence, the Iran-Contra Affair.

Edited because my text went bonkers on me when I pressed send!

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Those hostages were released

just a few hours after Reagan was inaugurated, as I recall.

[charlie]

11. Minutes n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. Yes, within minutes. n/t

[bananas]

24. split-screen tv: reagan swearing-in and hostages being released

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. When you look back with the knowledge you now have, it is unbelieve

how shameless that was.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. It really made me mad at the time

And I didn't know then what I know now.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Yes

And now Reagan is the one who gets all the credit. :mad: He's the one who held them! Bastard.

[still_one]

10. Yes, I know that, but are you implying their will be another October

surprise, i.e. pardons, firing Fitzgerald, etc?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

18. She wasn't talking about another October Surprise and there is no

implication in my post about it. Although I personally feel that this administration uses homeland security for alerts at times when Bush's polls are dismal. They did it all the time during the 2004 election.

[still_one]

25. no there wasn't, just trying to understand

I guess she was trying to educate people on why we are in the mess we are in today

Thanks

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. Yes, she is. What's Very Important is that many of those players

back then are back in this administration.

[still_one]

28. I know, this is like the rerun of a bad movie

thanks for the background and the information

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

29. Your welcome and it astonishes me that so many Americans

are asleep at the wheel. The biggest population in our country are the baby boomers. We lived through the lies of the Vietnam War, Watergate and Iran-Contra, and so many are so blind to the sociopathic machinations of this pResident and his men/women.And those who aren't blind are apparently apathetic.

[still_one]

30. yup, I am one of those baby boomers

[Cleita]

34. That's how I remember it. The hostage crisis completely

derailed Jimmy Carter's reelection. If memory serves me, there was also the question that Carter wouldn't declare war on Iran to free the hostages, so all the chickenhawks were screeching in high dungeon about that. We didn't really get all the details until years later. The electorate was completely sold another packet of lies to get Reagan elected.

[wli]

5. she claimed the 1979-1981 Iran hostage crisis was staged

Specifically in order to influence the 1980 election.

[still_one]

15. What happened was bill casey and bush I met with Iranians

before the 1980 election, that if they would hold the hostages until after the elections, if they won they would give them arms, which was illegal

Carter lost, they won, and six people were pardoned before it went to court

[Eloriel]

19. See my post below -- you're confusing everyone

And I'd add: either you're misunderstanding her, or SHE is mis-speaking, or she's nuts on this. See my post and especially the entirety of very first article listed.

Carter made a deal; Reagan/Bush screwed up the deal so they could get elected. I seriously doubt OUR side engineered the taking of hostages in the first place. They just availed themselves of the problem in order to come up with a winning "October Surprise."

[wli]

23. I'll let other listeners chime in; I myself may need clarification

[julialnyc]

3. what's MIHOP?

N/T

[wli]

6. an acronym for Made It Happen On Purpose

[Just Me]

8. SHE IS KICKING ASS!!!!

:woohoo:

[burythehatchet]

9. Looks like she read the threads on DU...best political research on the web

[dmr]

44. Not really, this is exactly how Randi

has always been, even before there was a DU.

[Eloriel]

12. What do you mean MIHOP on the hostage crisis?

Specifically. Are you saying Reagan and Bush caused the hostages to be taken by/in Iran in the first place?

That I'm not sure I buy, but I just posted THIS information yesterday -- perhaps you've seen it, perhaps not:

Bush's Impending Watergate
By Harvey Wasserman
originally published on May 23, 1991
http://old.valleyadvocate.com/25th/archives/bushs_watergate.html

George Bush should be impeached. Whether he will be impeached depends on the intestinal fortitude of Congress. But the evidence is clearly sufficient to begin proceedings.

snip

The circumstances are worth repeating: On November 4, 1979, radical Iranian students seized some 55 American citizens and began a crisis that lasted until the moment Ronald Reagan was inaugurated as president 444 days later.

snip

But by October of 1980, one thing was clear: If the hostages were released prior to the election, Carter would be re-elected. If not, Ronald Reagan would win. All major polls -- including one by the primary Republican pollster, Richard Wirthlin -- showed a 10 percent swing on just that issue.

In early October, word spread through the world media that Carter had negotiated a deal for the hostages' release. It was widely believed that he had agreed to unfreeze some $4 billion in assets claimed by the deposed Shah, and to supply spare parts to the American-made arms inherited by the Ayatollah Khomeini's revolutionary regime. The hostages were due home by mid-October, in ample time to assure Carter's re-election.

Then, mysteriously, the deal was off. The hostages weren't coming home after all. What happened?

-- much more --

Selected LINKS:

**** October Surprise X-Files at Consortium News (several articles)
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html

Arafat and October Surprise
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110204.html

Robert Parry's Oct Suprise Page at Real History
http://www.webcom.com/~lpease/collections/denied/octsurprise.htm


Disreputable Men - Minstrel Boy
(author Gary Sick mentioned, and Delmar Vreeland)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2371290#2372806

Bush's Impending Watergate By Harvey Wasserman
originally published on May 23, 1991
http://old.valleyadvocate.com/25th/archives/bushs_watergate.html

Archive: October Surprise 'X-Files' Series (several articles)
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html



Who is Jim Moore? Part Seven
CAMPAIGN 1980 & THE IRAN-CONTRA AFFAIR
©2002 by Jim Moore
(John Anderson, R. Secord, Ollie North -- quoting the above article)
http://www.geocities.com/omegareport/Authors/04-Moore-g.htm


INSLAW, OCtober Surprise, many other articles by Henry V. Martin
http://www.american-buddha.com/napa.sentinel.htm#THE%20NAPA%20SENTINEL


And don't miss this one:
ex-President Carter's Operation Desert Claw sabotaged?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=629531#631588


"Only Christian soldier is a good soldier" by Lt. Gen (R) James Vaught
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=638484#638554

[wli]

16. thanks, sounds like some good material

[Must_B_Free]

13. I know it from David Emory

the timing of the thing indicates a deal was made; right after reagan was elected, the hostages were released.

there was supposed to be something about the jet that was flown ovber to make the deal? Either it was Adnan Khashoggi's plane (Madame Butterfly Ballot Theresa LePore as the stewardess) or it was a plane that one of bin Laden's brothers flew?

Can't recall the various conspiracy rumours.

[laststeamtrain]

20. I listened to an Emory program this morning from WFMU archive.

An interview with John Loftus from a few weeks ago. Don't ask for details I was distracted and need to listen to it again. Nice to hear Dave's name here. An interesting researcher.

[laststeamtrain]

14. Why Oh Why didn't Kerry talk about Iran/Contra during the campaign?

In addition to reconnecting with the working-class 'base', the Dems need to talk about the last 30 years of Republican skull-duggery.

[still_one]

17. frustrating isn't it

[laststeamtrain]

31. Yes, it was.

[Just Me]

22. It's shocking,...

,...and those who CARE about and respect the limits of people avoid tearing their view of the world apart. Maybe, it's a mistake to be that protective,...especially considering the present circumstances.

[laststeamtrain]

32. I don't know what the balance is between 'tearing' and a factual..

analysis of things as they are. Unfortunately too many people seem to need a quick 22 minute wrap-up to a happy ending picture of the world.
There are 400 or 500 or so 'households' that have annual incomes of $200+ million. Everything revolves around this fact.

[Blue Belle]

38. Kerry should have talked about it....

He should have brought up all th cover up then (he was, afterall one of those who uncovered the Iran/Contra money trail), and asked questions of the cover up now. The biggest asset the Republicans had in this campaign were Kerry's campaign managers. SIGH... :eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Don't forget BCCI

[omega minimo]

35. Um whut wuz da kwestion?

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone who sat there and WATCHED the split-screen Bananas pointed out-- one side showing Raygun getting sworn in and the other showing released hostages deplaning-- musta had an INKLING that some sort of bullshit was happening. WERE WE SUPPOSED TO THINK IT WAS A COINCIDENCE?

The legacy of that media subterfuge and brainwashing is what we are STILL DEALING WITH TODAY. The Merican people sat still through THAT and the next thing and the next thing and the next thing................ the Big Lie got Bigger and Bigger and........... HERE WE ARE.

What I don't understand is how people sit and scratch their heads in wonderment and try to figure out why the Merican people are zombified WHEN WE HAVE BEEN WITNESSING THIS SHIT FOR 25 YEARS.

Shoulda listened to the punk rockers.

:rant:

[wli]

36. well, I figured it out, it's avoiding smackdowns en masse from others

i.e. "can I cite Randi as the source for this to get you to stop bombarding me with tinfoil smears?"

[omega minimo]

39. Pardon me, I thought this was a group discussion

Having not noticed anyone "bombarding me with tinfoil smears?" This seemed to be about the systematic dismantling of our nation. I didn't realize it was all about you.

If there was any question, one would hope that the :rant: is a good indication of generalized statements, not directed at an individual.

Your thread is important. Why shoot it down?

[wli]

41. the subject has an importance beyond me, but I had a motive

That motive was to get something to defend my assertion with.

The greater good done, of course, is why I didn't decide it was noise and refrain from posting the start of the thread.

Anyhow, it's good to see that people are getting the idea that the racket has been ongoing for 25 years.

[omega minimo]

42. I'm sorry, what is your assertion?

Do you remember those years and did you watch the "racket" developed?

[wli]

43. I was young during the Reagan puppeteering

I had a pretty good idea they were criminals getting away with it on national TV. I thought they were just there to steal money, kill people in other countries, and were otherwise irrelevant to me back then.

[DemoTex]

37. Nothing new. Nixon/Kissinger did the same thing to Humphrey & Muskie.

Nixon/Kissinger sabotaged the Paris Peace Talks. They are shameless warmongers, all!


The 1968 Democratic ticket: Hubert Humphrey & Edwin Muskie

[Minstrel Boy]

40. Gary Sick , principal aide for Iranian affairs

in the Carter White House, who served on the National Security Council for Ford, Carter and Reagan, pieced it together in this book: