The London Bombing makes "progress"

[Must_B_Free]

(from a fascist perspective) at bringing other ethnic profiles into the "struggle".

We now have Arabs, Asians and Africans all potentially needing ethnic profiling. All those dirty Godless foreigners are trying to kill us and Jesus!

When I went through the airport today, the two families that were stopped for the extra screening and patdown were both of foreign one looked arab and the other was ambiguously ethnic.

[The Magistrate]

1. Let Us Be Clear, Sir

Is it your contention that the persons arrested had nothing to do with this matter?

And if it is, what is the basis for that belief?

[Must_B_Free]

2. Your desire to be contentious has you shadow boxing, Mr. Twain

your interpretation of my post is not supported by the details, sir.

[Selatius]

3. He's asking a pretty straight-forward question.

Do you believe the ones arrested had no connection to the attacks?

[The Magistrate]

5. Do You Think So, Sir?

If the arrests are justified, then what is the complaint? Their heritage and background is beyond the control of the authorities, after all, if the men moved themselves to the deed they are accused of. Should they not have been arrested, because millions of people of similar ethnicity have not done the thing these men are accused of?

[Must_B_Free]

10. I think what I said was clear.

As for do I think the arrests justified? I haven't really read about them, but I'll take your word for it.

It is sort of ironic all this stuff with the vigilantes patrolling the border and now pretty much all people of color sort of officially branded "suspect", torture, tasers... how ironic in comparison to our history how we are edging in a high tech "kinder, gentler" version of this direction again. it's like somebody said "lets go back and investigate the worst of history and see how we can apply it in a modern context."

Slave "patrollers," mostly poor whites, were given the authority to stop, search, whip, maim, and even kill any slave who violated the slave codes. In their agitation against the South, abolitionists cited the slave codes as an example of the barbarism of Southern society. Above, a woodcut from the abolitionist Anti-Slavery Almanac (1839) depicts the capture of a fugitive slave by a slave patrol.

[beam me up scottie]

13. You admit you know nothing about the arrests yet you believe you're

qualified to characterize them as the result of racial profiling?

No need to do any research, is there?

Those bothersome facts and evidence do get in the way of making uneducated guesses about alleged fascists.

I think it's called "faith based" knowledge.

[Must_B_Free]

16. i never characterized the arrests as the result of racial profiling

rather, they are the signal to the public of the expansion of the "Struggle" to include all people of color. It's a racist's wet dream.

[beam me up scottie]

18. A "signal to the public" ? "expansion of the "Struggle"" ?

[Must_B_Free]

23. You heard it here folks

yeah, that's right, we're really not slipping into a new "kinder gentler" fascism.

And I'll qualify that, since you have trouble understanding anything I say - "kinder, gentler" is a reference to George Bush Sr. I believe one of his campaign slogans was a "kinder, gentler conservativism".

So, all this invasion of privacy, consolidation of power to the executive office, fake rational for wars, rampant profiteering, manipulation of the media; that's all really not happening. Nothing to see folks, move along lest someone ridicule you for "wearing a tinfoil hat".

The "struggle" in quotes is a reference to the rebranding of the "war on Terror" to the "struggle against extremism". I know that one escaped you also.

[beam me up scottie]

20. Rule #4.

4. Try to answer as few direct questions as possible. Always obfuscate and try to sound learned. Mimic Richard Hoagland's style and you'll go far.

[Must_B_Free]

24. where are you getting these rules from?

to use your own words against you -

"If you want to say something, at least have the guts to say it."

[The Magistrate]

29. It Is, Sir

From a pretty commonly cited "rules of disinformation" compendium, often cited around here, and by both sides of many disputes....

[The Magistrate]

22. The Relevance Of That Old Wood-Cut, Sir, Escapes Me

Several men have been arrested in England, and one in Italy, whom the authorities claim to have carried out an illegal act. What relevance this has to Minutemen on the border with Mexico, or how it makes "all people of color" suspect and subject to torture, remains unclear. It certainly does not effect my view of the various Middle Eastern, Central Asian, and African persons encountered in the normal routine of my days in the city.

Your proposition that "someone" has resolved to re-create conditions of an earlier time would seem, on the face of events, to rather confuse the responsibilities here. The English authorities had no control over who might have chosen to carry out a criminal act and be arrested for it, apparently on reasonable suspicion. Those who did the act are responsible for any consequences that flow from it. Are you, therefore, saying that jihadis are trying to recreate this past history? Or are you seeking to imply these men had nothing to do with what they were arrested for, but were simply singled out for the purpose you suggest? Or perhaps that they were put up to it by the authorities to give them a chance to do so? If so, it might be better for you to state it clearly.

Of course, if you would prefer to discuss antebellum matters in the United States, we could doubtless pass some enjoyable time at that. It is not one of my major fields, but has engaged my interest somewhat at various periods of my life....

"The Union is our wagon, and the People are its springs
And every true American for Millard Fillmore sings!"

[Must_B_Free]

26. I'll explain it to you

Several men have been arrested in England, and one in Italy, whom the authorities claim to have carried out an illegal act. What relevance this has to Minutemen on the border with Mexico, or how it makes "all people of color" suspect and subject to torture, remains unclear.

Your proposition that "someone" has resolved to re-create conditions of an earlier time would seem, on the face of events, to rather confuse the responsibilities here.

And yet those low points of our history are back in a new form nonetheless. Call it another coincidence if you like.

Those who did the act are responsible for any consequences that flow from it. Are you, therefore, saying that jihadis are trying to recreate this past history? Or are you seeking to imply these men had nothing to do with what they were arrested for, but were simply singled out for the purpose you suggest? Or perhaps that they were put up to it by the authorities to give them a chance to do so? If so, it might be better for you to state it clearly.

I am not really making any of those judgments that you have suggested for me. All I am doing is noting the similarity in appearance of the details. 150 years ago were had vigilantes "rounding up dark people for violating our laws" and 150 years later we are doing it once again. The cop armed with a taser has become, in over 100 cases so far, a judge, jury and executioner at the touch of a button.

This is similar to the premise of my original post. See, many people at DU also see the currents and trends of history and in this Bush war on terror, many people feel we are being goaded into a fascist or neo-fascist dictatorship like the Germans of the Wiemar republic were. That is a common theme on DU of which you should be aware. Given that you have 19275 posts and super user status, it would be disingenuous for you to pretend to be unaware of such.

Thus, you should have also been aware of the relevance of my initial post in following that line of thinking. And argue against it as you will and as you are entitled to, you are, none the less, not arguing with just me but many others here who see the same patterns of old repeated in a modern context.

[The Magistrate]

28. Well, Sir

When you can show me vigilante mobs rounding up Moslems on the streets of London, for example, then it might be possible to say you were on to something. Since you have made every attempt the language allows to suggest there is a purposeful attempt to produce such a situation by the authorities, you will have to forgive me for taking you at opur words, and responding accordingly.

Whether or not an idea is popular or not, Sir, here or elsewhere, makes no difference whatever to my view of whether it is either true to fact, a sensible interpertation of fact, or worthy of serious regard or not. It is my custom to make such judgements by my own lights, and with a complete disregard for what others might think or feel in the matter. It does, of course, please me when others are moved to agree, but my life affords me a variety of sources of pleasure, so that that particular one can be done without easily when not available.

It is true there is a good deal of misperception long evident here concerning the rise of Nazism, and the establishment and course of the Third Reich. Serious study of the matter is the cure for that, but it is arduous, and so rarely undertaken, and pointless to recommend....

"You can't expect a boy to be properly depraved unless he has been to a good school."

[Must_B_Free]

30. excuse me,

When you can show me vigilante mobs rounding up Moslems on the streets of London, for example, then it might be possible to say you were on to something.

Didn't an english mob kill a muslim just after the bombing? But I guess that's not enough to count?

Since you have made every attempt the language allows to suggest there is a purposeful attempt to produce such a situation by the authorities, you will have to forgive me for taking you at opur words, and responding accordingly.
You are jumping ahead of yourself attempting to fault me for not presenting something which you have just now asked for.

Whether or not an idea is popular or not, Sir, here or elsewhere, makes no difference whatever to my view of whether it is either true to fact, a sensible interpertation of fact, or worthy of serious regard or not. It is my custom to make such judgements by my own lights, and with a complete disregard for what others might think or feel in the matter.
Interesting flattery of yourself. You have repeated displayed that you have a big problem when I freely display my views, as exemplified by your repeated stalking and locking of my threads, because you don't agree with them. So don't too your own horn too loud, Sam.

It is true there is a good deal of misperception long evident here concerning the rise of Nazism, and the establishment and course of the Third Reich. Serious study of the matter is the cure for that, but it is arduous, and so rarely undertaken, and pointless to recommend....
Not sure what you mean by that. "Serious study of which the Third Reich", or "serious study of the misperception concerning the rise of Nazism?" And then which ever it is it's too much work to understand to you don't recommend that anyone study it?

[Must_B_Free]

31. "Texas Minutemen head quits, cites racism in group"

By EDWARD HEGSTROM
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

The head of the Texas Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has quit, saying he has been unable to overcome racism among members in Goliad.
ADVERTISEMENT

National leaders say the resignation of Bill Parmley won't have any effect on the planned actions targeting illegal immigrants in Houston and other Texas cities this October.

However, they also acknowledge Parmley was a driving force in organizing that effort.

It was Parmley's idea to run operations in Houston targeting day laborers and the contractors who hire them. And Parmley, a petroleum geologist and landowner in Goliad County, bought the plane tickets to fly in national Minuteman leaders from Arizona last month to begin organizing efforts here.

Parmley said he has become concerned that some of the Minuteman activists in his region have a vendetta against the Goliad County sheriff, who is Hispanic.

He asserted they also have made comments about shooting illegal immigrants or letting them die from dehydration.

"That's their mind-set, and I don't want my name and my reputation associated with a group of people who are racist like that," he said.

Starting to sound more and more like that woodcut.

[beam me up scottie]

4. What you're suggesting is that this was all part of a plan

for the UK to target Arabs and other ethnicities.

And we're supposed to believe you because of your dubious account of what happened at the airport?

If you want to say something, at least have the guts to say it.
Don't dance around and act like you have no idea why people are asking for clarification.

[madeline_con]

6. I don't know others' feelings, but...

Searching little blonde girls' teddy bears was getting ridiculous.

Anyone who doesn't understand my post is welcome to ask for clarification. ;)

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Must_B_Free]

12. Yeah, Maddie

can't you tell he's concentrating?

He's got really important stuff to do and you're interfering with it.




:)

[beam me up scottie]

14. Nope, just trying to decipher your

tortured sentences:

"As for do I think the arrests justified? I haven't really read about them, but I'll take your word for it.

It is sort of ironic all this stuff with the vigilantes patrolling the border and now pretty much all people of color sort of officially branded "suspect", torture, tasers... how ironic in comparison to our history how we are edging in a high tech "kinder, gentler" version of this direction again. it's like somebody said "lets go back and investigate the worst of history and see how we can apply it in a modern context."

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Yes, I can't receive the "signal to the public" because

the government never got around to implanting the mind control device.

Excellent implementation of rule #22

22. Refer to anyone who does not immediately agree with you as being uneducated on the matter, lacking in important information, or just plain too stupid to understand your magnificent statements.

[Must_B_Free]

25. i'll explain them to you

tortured sentences:

"As for do I think the arrests justified? I haven't really read about them, but I'll take your word for it."

I didn't read about the arrests, nor did I comment on whether they were justified. So what difference does that make?

It is sort of ironic all this stuff with the vigilantes patrolling the border
reference to the armed citizens catching people of color who attempt to cross into America http://www.10news.com/news/4729945/detail.html

now pretty much all people of color sort of officially branded "suspect",
established as the premise of the original post; harkens back to the holocaust and how it started with handicapped, then expanded to gays, then to jews, etc. etc. In the "war on terror" first it was just all Muslim arabs that were suspect, now it has been expanded to include all people of color.

torture,
The US had broken a convention in place since George Washington by employing torture to try to get information out of suspects. There was a batch of photos released from Abu Graib and the ones that weren't released are said to contain images of children being raped in front of their parents.
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2142

tasers...
This is a new device that zaps people with a haigh voltage burst of electricity. They are responsible to over 100 deaths noe and are overwhelming used against people of color.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&tab=wn&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=taser&btnG=Search+News

how ironic in comparison to our history
in other words, I reference the brutality in our nation's past against people of color

how we are edging in a high tech
i.e. tasers and high tech killing machines

"kinder, gentler" version of this direction again.
again a sarcastic reference to Bush Sr.'s tortured use of these words. It essentially mocks how the brutal Bush agenda was sold to the american public by telling them is was softer and nicer, when in reality, the opposite was true.

it's like somebody said "lets go back and investigate the worst of history and see how we can apply it in a modern context."
The worst features of our own history have been rekindled by this administration.

[Selatius]

8. On racial profiling...

Ultimately, I think racial profiling is the lazy man's way out of not devoting the required resources needed to secure, say, every person on every plane, every cargo container, every airport, every seaport, and every inch of the nation's border.

All it takes is technology and common sense and the willpower, all of which this nation has in abundance. However, there is no will from politicians to bring it to bear. No, they're interested in building big bombs, and big big bombs, and big big big bombs instead. Because of this, we end up with racial profiling of Arabs as an alternative as if white people don't come in the Timothy McVeigh variety.

They keep telling us to buy more SUVs and go about shopping like nothing is happening. Where is the national sacrifice here, people?

[tocqueville]

15. Profiles of the five men in custody

The July 21 suspects

Saturday July 30, 2005
The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1539300,00.html

Muktar Said-Ibrahim

In 1996 at Wood Green crown court, north London, Ibrahim was jailed for five years for his role in a teenage gang who carried out a series of violent muggings in the Welwyn Garden City and Stevenage areas of Hertfordshire. He served two and a half years in a number of young offenders institutions in south-east England where he was said by friends to have turned to radical Islam.

After leaving prison he is believed to have grown a beard, adopted Islamic dress and become devout


Ramsi Muhammad

He was seen at Stockwell station at 12.25pm on July 21 where he boarded a northbound Northern line train. When his bomb failed to detonate between Stockwell and Oval stations, he got off the train at Oval at 12.35pm. He was captured on CCTV running away from the tube wearing a sweatshirt with the words "New York" on the front. He was chased by at least three commuters. The suspect was last seen at Tindal Street at 12.45pm on July 21. He was traced to west London yesterday where he was arrested with Muktar Said-Ibrahim, the bus bomb suspect.


Yasin Hassan Omar

For the past five years Omar has shared the flat with Muktar Said-Ibrahim, the suspected bus bomber.

Along with Ibrahim, Omar was spotted by a neighbour returning to the flat the day after the failed bomb attacks on July 21.


Hussain Osman

Italy's interior minister said Hussain Osman was a naturalised British citizen, but the Home Office refused to discuss his immigration status yesterday.

The Italian news agency Ansa, citing unidentified sources close to the investigation, said British police had put the Italians on his trail by providing the mobile phone number of his brother-in-law.

It said by monitoring mobile phone conversations between the two, police were able to follow his movements, from England to Milan and Bologna and finally to Rome.

[beam me up scottie]

21. How conveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenient.

[Must_B_Free]

27. Another thread for you to debunk

you have better go debunk this one it plays right into my premise:

Loftus: London bombing mastermind an MI6 agent (Fox News)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4226243