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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:42 PM
Original message
H2O Man's "appreciation" to DUers.....
{1} Introduction

"If you had the luck of the Irish,
You'd be sorry and wish you were dead.
You should have the luck of the Irish,
And you'd wish you were English instead.

A thousand years of torture and hunger
Drove the people away from their land.
A land full of beauty and wonder,
Was raped by the British brigands. .....

In the 'Pool they told us the story
How the British divided the land.
Of the pain, the death and the glory
And the poets of auld Eireland."
-- John Lennon; "Luck of the Irish"

I wanted to thank the people on DU who contributed to the "H2O Man Appreciation Thread" today. Although I'm a gruff and grumpy old man, it meant a lot to me. I had thought I would put something organized on here tonight, and was sitting trying to write an outline in my mind, when my older daughter walked by, and asked me if she could use the computer, as I was sitting and staring into space. So I showed her the thread, and said that apparently a few people care about what goes on in my head when I stare blankly.

She said, "Well, since I turned 11, I've found that your opinion isn't always right." Probably exactly what I needed to hear, before my head expanded, and all traces of thought become lost. Anyhow, I am not going to say anything very organized or planned out .... because I have an 11-year old girl who wants a turn on the computer. But maybe, in some strange way, I can tie a few random thoughts together.

{2} The Irish Penal Laws

"...a machine of wise and elaborate contrivance, as well fitted for the oppression, impoverishment, and degradation of a people, and debasement in them of human nature itself, as ever proceeded from the perverted ingenuity of man..."
--Edmund Berke; Letter to Sir Hercules Langrishe

In an essay on the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy, that I posted earlier this week, I wrote about the trade relationships between urban city/states, and outlying rural areas. The city/states depend on the natural resources of the rural lands, in order to support them.

For example, a city doesn't produce enough food to provide for its inhabitants; hence, a New York City will "import" both food and water. Food, fuel, and "man-hours" are the three most important resources that city/states import.

The larger the city/state, the larger the area it needs to trade with in order to meet its needs. When the rural population shares the same racial, ethnic, religious, language, and other "identities" of the city/state, the more pleasant and fair the trade relationship. When the peoples are different, we have something that is defined as imperialism, which often becomes colonialism. More, the relationships become far more exploitive and oppressive.

Many years ago, mid-way between the Roman Empire and the Bush Empire, the British Empire was so large, that the sun never set upon it. One of the places that the most exploitive and oppressive examples of imperialism was found in Ireland. I think it might be of interest to us to take a look at the "Later Penal Laws" in Ireland.

{3} "Like good wine the Penal code improved with age."
-- Seumas MacManus; "The Story of the Irish Race"

The early penal laws in Ireland were primarily imposed as a means to oppress the largely rural population, so that the English could have a favorable trade relationship. This included introducing a certain amount of non-Irish to the island, generally to settle in the port areas. But the majority of the island remained "Irish," though its resources were being stolen.

Now, most DUers are familiar with the earlier Cambro-Norman invasions of Ireland, and how over the years, the invaders became absorbed into the Irish culture .... giving the world families like the Galloways. The English were also aware of this, and so they attempted to keep as many social walls between the Irish and the colonists in the norhwest as possible. We are all aware that the Catholic-Protestant divide has been used to oppress Ireland for centuries.

It's interesting to note, however, that after the "Williamite" wars,(which led to a temporary role of traditional Irish influence in self-government) and as a consequence of the Limerick Treaty, in the early 1700s, the colonists in Ireland were afraid the Catholics would exact a bloody revenge. The Irish militia, though appearing to be peasants, had defeated the professional army of the Brits in terrible battles, and there was fear they would be vicious.

But those who suffer oppression often are the most peaceful when they gain power. The Irish actually passed laws granting freedom of religion, so that being Catholic or Protestant made no difference in a person's status. And other parts of Irish culture were attracting attention in Britian and Europe. The single most important one was the long-recognized belief that women were equal to men. Not exact. Equal. (Now you understand why my daughter's comment got me started on this!)

{4} "... Conceived by demons, written in blood, and registered in Hell." -- Montesquieu; A French Jurist's Description of Irish Penal Law.

People do not kill that which they hold in contempt; they kill that which they fear. And the British "royalty" feared the ideas expressed by the Irish. For those ideas -- freedom, equality, and the value of being sovereign -- were ideas that threatened the status of those who lived in luxury, but who contributed no more to society than a tape worm does to its host.

The Irish could no longer be simply colonized and exploited: they had to be utterly destroyed. Hence, we find these laws were imposed:

The Irish were forbidden to practice their religion.
It was illegal to be educated.
It was illegal to practice a profession.
They could not hold public office.
They could not own a business.
They could not live in a corporate town, or within 5 miles of one.
They couldn't vote.
They couldn't own land.
They could not leash land.
They could not use their land as a security for a loan.
They were forbidden to keep any weapons.
They couldn't buy, inherit, or receive a gift of land from a Protestant.
They couldn't rent land worth more than 30 shillings a year.
They could not reap benefit of over 1/3rd of their rent.
They could not be guardians to children.
They could not leave children with Catholic relatives.
They were compelled to attend Protestant services, and donate to Protestant church-schools their children were forbidden to attend.

Attending church or school were offenses that were punishable by death. Both priests and school teachers were hunted by professional military men, using Irish bloodhounds.

In most city-state relationships with rural populations, there is found a tendency to have those displaced from the land move into the city. There, they form ethnic neighborhoods, and provide large pools of cheap labor for industries. As we can see, in Ireland, the goal included keeping them out of the cities. There "No Irish allowed!" signs that would become a part of the American experience actually started in Irish cities at this time.

On the gates of one town was a sign which read: "Enter here, Turk, Jew or athiest; Any man except a papist." Below it, an Irishman wrote: "The man who wrote this wrote it well; For the same is writ on the gates of Hell."

{5} "But sometimes the troops came on them unawares, and the Mass Rock was bespattered with his blood -- and men, women and children caught in the crime of worshipping God among the rocks were frequently slaughtered on the mountainside." -- MacManus

Two figures that stood out in the "Later Penal Law" era were the rebel priest, and the hedge school master. The priests had to live in the wilderness. They lived in caves and under rock ledges in the most isolated mountains in the southwest. Some, who dared to venture closer to populated hamlets, lived in the bogs that allowed them to escape the bloodhounds.

They held religious services at the old, pre-Christian sacred sites. These included at boulders on the mountains; near springs and wells that were long recognized as being where powers existed; and at the cromlechs (or dolmen) that are composed of three great standing stones, connected by flat slabs resting on them -- which had a special symbolism to the Irish.

The "hedge masters" were the school teachers. They tended to fit in with the general population, much like a fish in the ocean. They were usually tenet farmers who did not appear as anything other than peasants to the British. But, at odd hours, they would teach small classes of Irish children, hidden by the hedges along a lonely stretch of road.

In my family, there were both rebel priests and hedgemasters. The rebel priests rarely had children, or so I have been told. But for this discussion, I shall focus on one hedge master. He lived near Limerick, and records from the Royal Irish Academy show that he had taught "Fair Penmanship, Correct Reading, Arithmatic, Book-keeping, Euclid's Elements, Algebra, Geography, and the Greek and Latin languages." His specialty were the Gaelic languages, and his manuscripts on the relationship between Irish, Scottish, and Manx are still housed in the RIA.

{6} "My lords, it may be a part of a system of angry justice, to bow a man's mind by humiliation to the proposed ignominy of the scaffold; but worse to me than the purposed shame, or the scaffold's terrors, would be the shame of such unfounded imputations as have been laid against me in this court. You, my lord (Lord Norbury), are a judge, I am a supposed culprit; I am a man, you are a man, also. By a revolution of power, we might change places, though we never could change characters." -- Robert Emmett; (quoted in "The World's Famous Orations," by William Jennings Bryan; Vol VI, pages 137-8; copyright 1908)

My ancestor joined the United Irishmen and was sentenced to die after the Uprising of 1798. He was friends with men like Robert Emmett and John Philpot Curran. Being friends with Curran, the noted attorney, saved his life.

I'm far more proud that he was a hedge master, than that he was to become an "Honorary" Member of the Gaelic Society, with manuscripts that are still considered of great value in the study of the Irish language. It means more to me to sit along the "information higfhway" on DU, and to debate the great issues of the day, than to mingle with the high and mighty. I've done both. Today I am in a position to do whatever I please, and I like that I can post my little essays on DU, and discuss them with people here.

{7} Robert Kennedy:"What do you think of Che Guevara?"
Roger Baldwin: "I think he's a bandit. What do you think?"
Robert Kennedy: "I think he's a revolutionary hero."
-- "Robert Kennedy"; Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.; page 861

Of course, the United Irishmen's uprisings led to greater oppression, including the Great Starvation, where the British royalty were guilty of genocide in Ireland in one of the ugliest chapters of human history. At that time, more than a million Irish came to North America. It changed the culture here.

One of the greatest Irish-American politicians was Robert Kennedy, Sr. Towards the end of his life, he told a British journalist that if he had not been born rich, he would been a revolutionary. Alice Roosevelt Longworth saw this quality in him, and Schlesinger quotes her as saying, "Bobby could have been a revolutionary priest."

If people find this interesting, I may do a second part that explores part of the Irish contribution to American culture that our history books ignore. Are people familiar in the Anti-Rent War? Interested in learning about it?

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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please do Part 2. I'm only a very small part Irish, but very proud
of that small part.

I think it's interesting what the Irish people were forbidden to do by the Brits. Looks a bit similar to where the US RW is heading here!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think the Penal Laws
sound very familiar. The idea of royalty vs peasants seems pretty familiar, too.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the Americans are as brave as the Irish were
at fighting back! I only wish all people would pay attention to all history. "Those who ignore history, are condemned to repeat it."
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I wonder if Bush's ears are ringing?
Oh, I forgot for a second...he doesn't read and isn't interested in book learning.

Thanks H20 Man...That was interesting and I learned a lot!
My husband is Irish and I'm sure he'll enjoy this article.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Bush may have had
his wife read "My Pet Goat" to help him get to sleep tonight. It seems to have a hypnotic effect on him.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. From the first sentence I thought of the Kennedys.
Thanks for a great essay. It explains, plain as day and between the lines, why the powers-that-be hated progress in Ireland, the Empire, the New World and in the form of the United States Constitution -- and those Americans who actually believe its laws apply to every citizen, equally. When you find time, please give us a part two.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sending link for this to my wayward daughter _ we will enjoy the read
together in our next phone marathon!

Sorry I missed the H2O Man appreciation thread. Hope ya know I think you're aces!

In your Irish history, do ya have any good sources for info on Thomas Francis Meagher (Meagher of the Sword), the rascal who was sent to Tasmania after one too many run-ins with the Brits in charge. I believe he came up with the Tri-color flag upon his return to the Ireland after a trip to France.

He busted out of the prison down under, after leaving a note to the authorities telling them of his plan. Came to the US, was a general in the Civil War (Irish Brigade), lawyer, newspaper publisher, first Territorial Governor of the Montana Territories.

Any sources on the gentleman would be appreciated by myself and the wayward daughter
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. "The Last Days of the 69th in Virginia,"
by Thomas Francis Meagher, is found in pasges 391-397 of "Memoirs of Gen.Thomas Francis Meagher," by Michael Cavanagh (Messenger Press; Mass; 1892). Off the top of my head, I think in "The Irish in America," the book edited by Michael Coffey, 1997, had fascinating information on him. (I mention him briefly in my book on Irish immigrants' contributions on the railroads.)
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks! Hmm, Meagher... Coffey...
family names for me 'n Wayward ;)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Meagher
was noted for two things, and one was being stubborn. Repeated charges against a well-armed enemy, who is secured behind a huge stone wall (Fredericksburg) surely helped win the war .... but at quite a cost. "Wayward" may be genetically predisposed to Irish behavior! (grin) The hardest part with my own is when they sound like I did at their age.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. LOL Stubborn? He was also know for getting horses shot out from under him
(Or perhaps, he kept falling off?)

Yes, there are some genetics involved. And I understand you about your kids and the echos of our own youth!

Just got an email from the young woman. She has been reading about the Stregheria. Just when I think my work is done and I can relax... :eyes:

What do you get when you cross an Irish temperament with an Italian flare for, um, herbal knowledge? This may get dangerous! If I can steer her back to our Meagher project, life might be safer for the idiots she works with ;)
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. I thought you would like to see these engravings H2O
My family was also from County Wexford

http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com.nyud.net:8090/scans/p-10607.jpg

Illustrator W. H. Bartlett

The prints in this publication are steel engravings. They depict the many beautiful scenes to be found in Eire.

There are beautiful scenes of interesting geological sites (e.g: The Giant's Causeway) as well as views of towns and mountainous regions.

There are also night scenes and in them people are still out and about. The eerie light in these scenes adds to the atmosphere of such places.

The list below contains links to scanned images of these picturesque views.


http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/IRELAND-BARTLETT.htm
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Beautiful!
Thanks for showing that to me.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Very interesting! YES! Do a part 2.
I loved it. Thank you! :hug:
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes. Please write more.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. yes, please do a part 2! n/t
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kick for part 2!
:kick:

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. Woohoo dos fight'n Irish! Just order all of Flogg'n Molly's CD's!
On with part II please, unless you've already posted and I missed it. Going to check thread.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. A lot of U.S. citizens were lucky in that they were not owned by
others or treated badly (to horribly). Now, the formerly safe are going to find out what those that stood beside them were going through if the madness over us doesn't go away.

I can easily visualize our leaders grabbing the country and flipping it upside down so that we have to climb up all over again.



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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. I glanced through this...and have to admit
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 10:52 PM by Horse with no Name
I was up til 6 this am with a sick grandbaby.
I want to read this again when I wake up in the am, because not only can I not string together two organized thoughts, I cannot comprehend two organized thoughts,lol.
Maybe it was the wine coolers...
However, I will read in the am, when I am clear headed. Thank you for writing this post. It looks to be another great read.
Hats off to you. And again...many many thanks for sharing your talents with us.
:toast:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I think that
the more wine coolers consumed, the more sense it might make.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. I Think The Day Is Coming When We Will Really Have To
stand up for ourselves. What form that will take I do not know. Hopefully a tsunami of words from all of us will finally turn the tide against the great evil being visited upon our land. How bad will it have to get before "people are willing to hide in hedges if they have to "? Keep telling the histories, we all need to know what others were willing to do for "freedom, equality, and the value of being sovereign".
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. You make DU worth reading for me, H2O...and you keep me honest
thanks for making this a great place!


goodboy.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh, yes -- please post more about this issue.
I hope that I don't miss it when you post it.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks cyber hedge master H20 Man.
I would like to hear "Part II" too! Two kicks!

:kick: :kick:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
25. You are a wonderful teacher, H2O Man.
I hope I'm as effective in the classroom as you are on these threads. Thanks for the truth and wisdom...

Peace.B-)
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
26. Very good H2O man......
My ggrandfather came over before the US Cvil War....an O'Shaughnessy (OSeachnasaigh) if you will, we have so far traced them to about 1825 on the "old sod".

I was interested in the "Williamite" wars...we had a migration to my town starting in 1728-29 of English Protestants from County Longford. They had been exiled to Ireland after some earlier wars and left after several failed attempts to reclaim their properties in England.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. the O'Seachnasaigh
were a leading sept of the southern Ui Fiachrach, who were descended from Daithi, the last of the pre-Christian kings of Ireland. You probably know that most were located in the barony of Kiltartan in the time that your grandfather left Ireland. Known for their extreme musical talents, all the O'Shaughnessy's I've met.
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ocean girl Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
28. Would you please post a link to the appreciation thread?
I need to add my own flattery.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Gladly.
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
29. Anti-rent War, yes please.
While I don't remember the details of all the suppression and inhumanity wrought upon the irish by the english, I do have a concept of the magnitude of the whole ordeal.

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World Traveller Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
31. Pls do more on Ireland-My Irish Grandparents used to tell stories
They were from southwest Ireland, Galway, and grew up speaking Gaelic. Grandmother, who came to US in 1903 at age 18, used to tell vague stories about oppression but never went into details. One thing though, she HATED England, so there must be a reason.
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. a friend of mine told me a story once about the Irish "famine."
Regarding the "famine" ...


Malone: "My father died of starvation in Ireland in Black '47. Maybe you've heard of it?"

Violet: "The famine?"

Malone: "No, the starvation. When a country is full of food, and exporting it, there can be no famine."

-George Bernard Shaw; Man and Superman

On one day in November of 1848, the following items were sent to England from Cork: 147 bales of bacon; 120 casks and 135 barrels of pork; 5 casks of ham; 300 bags of flour; 300 head of cattle; 239 sheep; and 542 crates of eggs. Yet people were dying from starvation and from the diseases that feed on malnutrition. Please read the posts a ways below here regarding the Malthusian theories and Darwin's "survival of the fittest." The Irish experience is the classic example of the cruelty human beings endure because of the greed of the power elite.

Thought you might find that information interesting or useful . . . .

So when can we see "part two?"
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Sounds familiar ....
I kind of remember reading that somewhere before.
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. familiar?
You remember reading it? Maybe do you remember writing it?
Silly H2O!

:toast:

Slainte!!!
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kick! n/t
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
36. Oh! Hello, my friend.
:hug:

If we continue to reach for social justice, we will die with no regrets.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
37. It Is Always A Pleasure To See You About The Place, Sir
And most often an informative one to boot.

Be well, Sir!
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
38. I always say that I have the luck of the Irish
All bad.

I do not get the Lennon quote. I should have the luck of the Irish instead of the luck of the Irish?

I was going to ask if you have read Jane Jacobs about cities. She claims that this: "The city/states depend on the natural resources of the rural lands, in order to support them.

For example, a city doesn't produce enough food to provide for its inhabitants; hence, a New York City will "import" both food and water. Food, fuel, and "man-hours" are the three most important resources that city/states import." is backwards. That cities produce technical and cultural innovations which enrich a region and add far more to the "wealth of nations" than the backward rural regions. That may only have been true in older times and may not apply to cities larger than a certain size.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I'm not familiar
with Jane Jacobs. While you certainly have the right to your opinion, you might have a difficult time listing the larger modern cities that produce a surplus of food. But, I have an open mind, and look forward to the list you have in mind.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. well I did say, it might not apply to modern times
I cannot seem to find a copy of "The Economy of Cities" but only have "The Life and Death Of Great American Cities" which is not really explicating the same theories. Also, I am not saying I buy her thesis, only that I found it interesting. I still lean towards rural areas and small towns, but that is personal bias.

As best I can summarize from many years ago, a city produces a surplus of food, first by including nearby areas as part of the city. They had their own gardens which were more productive thanks to research and technology which was produced in the cities. The city produces a surplus of food by manufacturing the tractors, hybrids, and reapers which make the land more productive.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. You're close .....
but the city doesn't "produce" the food. The rural areas do. Think of the grains, such as wheat and corn. Or the beef or dairy farms. The food is produced in the rural areas. It is then transported, generally in mass, to the urban areas where it is processed. The processed raw materials, no matter if they are food, wood, or metal, are then sold/traded back to the rural areas.

Because cities have "industry," which can include anything from a flint factory to a metal industry, can mass-produce, they create a product they can sell/trade for a cheaper amount.

The cities also produce the technology that allows the rural areas to produce a higher amount of resources to trade/sell to the city/state. More, the city trades "luxury" items that tend to speed up the pace of rural life in such a way that the rural folks become dependent on that technology -- or at least they think they are. What actually happens is the rural area trades its self-sufficiency at the exact rate that it becomes dependent on the urban luxury items.

However, it is an error to think that cities produce the raw materials. They don't.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
41. Fascinating. I'll read the second installment if you write it.
Much thanks.


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