My dumb ass brother thinks more hispanics are GOP instead of Dem

[wildwww2]

Help me prove him wrong.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[chaumont58]

1. Maybe some places, he is right, but sure as hell not in California

Most hispanics out here remember prop 187. A whole generation is going to have to get old and die before the repukes live that foolish enterprise down.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[KarenInMA]

5. Ohhh..

:popcorn:

I tried this reasoning a few days a go. Didn't go well for me. Good luck.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[KarenInMA]

11. I missed the TB issue,

But everything else I touched on. I'm such a racist. :sarcasm:

[solinvictus]

16. Yep...

It's not just Hispanics, though they're the most visible. There are lots of illegals from China as well. Here in Birmingham, the local governments are trying to get together to start deporting some of them.

[TreasonousBastard]

46. The TB issue is bogus...

years ago I worked with farmworkers on Long Island, almost none of whom were Hispanic. The old "Harvest of Shame" with the work crews still operated, but mostly they went to inner cities and found poor blacks and offered them "great work."

Anyway, the TB problem was huge back in the '80s among these farm crews and other poor people in Suffolk County. The county pretty well refused to admit that TB even existed because then they would have to spend money to deal with it, and they loathed spending money on anyone, much less transient workers. It was a pretty big sandal.

Since then, we've heard a lot about TB in the poor neighborhoods where they don't get, or don't take, their meds properly and resistant strains are growing.

Just a guess, but I'd think that Hispanics, legal or otherwise, and other immigrant groups are getting their TB right here from our own locals, and not bringing it in with them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Yes they pay taxes

Payroll taxes and sales taxes. They do contribute to SS. And they usually don't get tax refunds since they don't file returns.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

25. Thank you. I'm waiting for the Minutemen apologists to show up on this

thread. :eyes:

Same old, same old.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I am so tired of this

It is ignorant, racist crap. Not what I expect from DUers. :grr:

[solinvictus]

30. I wouldn't expect DU'ers to advocate for illegals who..

are taking American jobs and depressing wages. But hey, it's a big tent, isn't it?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

32. You're blaming the victims of the crime and not the perpetrators

how about focusing on the employers who hire them and prosecute them? You also refuse to listen to the fact they illegals pay takes and contribute to social security. But that's what I expect of your kind of attitude. Where are you from again?

[solinvictus]

36. What part of "illegal" is vague to you??

The entire notion of defending immigrants who are here in violation of Federal law is absurd. The employers deserve to be fined to damn death for hiring them, I agree there, but at the same time these people need to be deported home. The impact of illegal immigration has been disastrous in our recessionary economy. Jobs in construction here in Alabama used to sustain a middle class existence, but now, they average about $8/hour. Here downtown at a project for the university, former employees of a company were picketing because they were replaced by a contractor who uses illegals. Illegals are terrible for the American working class.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. Are you descended from immigrants?

Most people in the US are. And at one time, many were illegal.

Don't blame just the immigrants for depressing wages. Blame the assholes in the White House and Congress for passing legislation that hurts the American worker. Why don't you help organize unions down there in Alabama? That would certainly help you earn a living wage.

[Swamp Rat]

44. Hell! All you Irish in Boston were "illegal!"

And we Irish in N'awlin's too. :D

:popcorn:

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. And you still don't see that the real bad guys are

the companies that hire these workers and not the workers themselves? Here in the midwest, local companies send trucks and buses down to Mexico to ship the workers up here. They buy apartment complexes for the workers to live in. One company here in my community even opened a Mexican grocery store next to one of these apartment complexes. The employers are creating US communities for the illegal workers!!

Yet, you want to punish the workers. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I expect DUers to be intelligent enough

to know they are NOT taking American jobs and depressing wages. Educate yourself about this issue. You have made a lot of incorrect assumptions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Lesson #1

The fact is employers hire the undocumented precisely because they can pay them less, prevent them from unionizing and get rid of them when better pay is demanded. However, the solution is not to try to deport immigrants (which will weaken their position even more), but to allow them to organize and fight for better wages and working conditions. If the eight to 12 million undocumented immigrants currently thought to be in the United States were all deported, what would one have accomplished? In the world of corporate globalization, “competition” from desperately poor workers in foreign countries is a much more powerful tool for dragging down wages than is “competition” from immigrants. If all undocumented immigrants from Mexico currently working in the US would be “rounded up” ( A racist phrase if ever there was one) and “sent back,” it would cause a significant drop in wages in Mexico, which would make Mexico an even more attractive place for capitalists to move production.

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/995/1/90/

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. #2

A recurring theme in US history has been periodic anti-foreign frenzy. We are now in the throes of one of these episodes, with Mexican and other Latin American immigrants being portrayed by the ultra right as the most terrifying “alien” threat since H.G. Wells’ War of the Worlds.

This comes at a moment when immigration is at an unprecedentedly high level not only in the United States, but all over the planet. Corporate globalization has penetrated the farthest reaches of the world, disrupting existing economic arrangements, driving farmers off their land and into already overcrowded cities, and creating conditions of ever more desperate poverty in Latin America, Africa, much of Asia and the former socialist states of Eastern Europe.

Country after country has been pressured by the World Bank and the IMF to implement economic measures that have left large sections of their populations unemployed and destitute. NAFTA is estimated to have driven six million Mexican farmers and their relatives off the land since 1994. The powerful have insisted on trade policies that allow capital to go wherever it will generate more profit. But there has not been a parallel change in the rules regulating the movement of labor. Circumstances force tens of millions to try to emigrate, but they are not allowed to do so legally. Having no choice, they do so anyway.

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/995/1/90/

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. about social security and illegal immigrants:

If Americans ever succeeded in getting rid of illegal immigrants – deporting those who are already here and preventing the entry of others – there would be an outcry from Latino activists, civil libertarians and the business community.

But that's nothing. Do you know who might really be furious? The Social Security Administration. If not for the billions in payroll taxes that illegal immigrants are paying into the system, the funding crisis facing Social Security would be much more serious and much more imminent. It is all thanks to the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act, which made it a crime for employers to knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

True, the law is a joke that is rarely enforced, and that should bother the law-and-order crowd more than it does. But by forcing employers to require Social Security cards – even bogus ones – IRCA did manage to rope illegal immigrants into the system. Last year, contributions by illegal immigrants made up about 10 percent of the Social Security surplus – the difference between what the system takes in and what it doles out.

According to a recent story in The New York Times, the numbers are startling. But they help explain why the U.S. government has tolerated illegal immigration for so long. It's the same reason that someone visiting Las Vegas tolerates a slot machine spewing out silver dollars.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/news_mz1e10ruben.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. So I take it you are ready to voice your concerns

to the employers who bring them in and hire them?

[solinvictus]

21. Yep...

but I favor deporting them en masse as well.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. They will just continue to come back

until there are no jobs here for them. No way can we secure our borders to keep them out.

[solinvictus]

23. Sure there are, but no one has the guts to do it..

We could easily construct a Berlin Wall on the southern border. No big deal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

Have you ever seen the southern border?

A Berlin Wall would be a bandaid approach.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Well I would rather not live in a country

that shoots immigrants, legal or illegal. But I that is your cup of tea, I hear there are some great real estate deals in N Korea and along the Gaza Strip. :eyes:

[wildwww2]

13. Thanks, Yeah he drove aroundMiami and saw Viva Bu$h stickers

and lumps all hispanic people together. I was hoping someone would have a link to hispanic voter registration logs or something.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[Ladyhawk]

29. I don't know. It's the hispanic construction workers who have been

listening to LImbaugh and Hannity around here. :shrug: It has me puzzled.

[AtomicKitten]

49. The GOP is trying hard to use the Bible as a wedge

to pry minorities from the Democratic Party. Many blacks are squeamish about gays, Hispanics about abortion. I think Ohio candidate, Paul Hackett, has it right-on, which probably speaks to my Libertarian leanings, and that is government needs to stay the hell out of our lives and out our bedrooms. I honestly believe when Americans get a good look at the fundie-run GOP, they will be disgusted. Paul Hackett is doing a great job exposing his opponent for being the scrunchie-wearing, Bush butt-kissing, nutjob that she is.

[bullimiami]

3. only here in miami dade.

cubans, especially the older generation. they still hate the democrats because of kennedy and the bay of pigs, plus the first exodus of cubans were wealthy and conservative and quite opposite of everything castro was fighting for.

[CatholicEdHead]

4. If they focus on economic issues, then they are more Dem

if they are more social issue, then they are Republican. Most are Roman Catholic and would follow the narrow anti-abortion teachings that are often pushed. It is hard to get broader teachings in many areas.

[bobbieinok]

47. pentecostals are targetting Hispanic immigrants in a major way

especially in areas like OK where there has been a large increase in the number of Hispanics in the last ca 6 years........and at least in OK the pentecostals preach an extremely conservative political view and urge the congregation to vote republican.......I've frequently heard people here say that no one who votes for a democrat is really christian

[jobycom]

6. "Hispanic" is a very broad term. Depends on where you are

and which group of Hispanics you mean. In Florida, Cubans are Republicans, while in Texas, Hispanics who are mostly either native Texan or from Mexico are Democratic. It's further complicated in Texas because there are Hispanics that have been in Texas since before it was Texas--they moved the border after the Mexican War, but people didn't move-- and there are naturalized citizens from Mexico, and there are second and third generation Mexican descendants. In the southern half of the state, the economy from top to bottom is Hispanic, and thus you have all income levels and all professions represented, and there the vote splits more according to economic status than ethnic background.

There are also a lot of Texans of Hispanic descent who grew up in white culture. They, too, split along non-ethnic lines.

Add to that Central and South America, and you have a complex picture that varies from region to region. In general, though, Texas Hispanics vote Democrat.

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Maybe your dumb-ass brother knows that

Hispanics are about 95% Catholic and pro-life, with both groups actively courted by the GOP while the Democratic Party says "Rah, rah, Roe!" and shows no evidence of caring that Catholics are defecting because the Dems are making no effort to keep them, just as the Dems aren't making the effort to keep bluecollar workers.

[manic expression]

14. And how is the GOP making "the effort"

to GET bluecollar workers? Granted, the Dems are spineless and aren't doing NEARLY enough for the lower/middle classes, but how is the Republican Party an improvement?

[friesianrider]

38. Probably the same way they work to get the pro-life vote.

Say they are pro-life then don't bat an eyelash at blowing thousands of Iraqi kids' brains out.

[Sapphire Blue]

18. GOP mask of 'pro-life' covers an ugly face of inflicting cruelty upon life

Democrats value life... along with liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

There are so many issues concerning life, issues that are completely ignored in the abortion focus... hunger, poverty, homelessness, livable minimum wage, unemployment, lack of medical insurance, civil rights, unjust wars, to name just a few. Perhaps if we focused on these other issues, abortion might become 'safe, legal, and rare'.

[friesianrider]

37. Bullshit.

To some people, fucking JOBS, THE ECONOMY, AND ACTUAL PEOPLE matter more than a god damn fetus.

Fucking pro-life psychos - they're SO often one-issue voters. Fuck the kids whose parents can't afford to clothe them cause they have no job, fuck the Iraqi kids who have their brains blown out on a daily basis, fuck the rest of the actual people in this country and the world...I'm voting to save a 7 week old fetus!

I live right near an extremely hispanic city in Pennsylvania, and they OVERWHELMINGLY are Catholic and went OVERWHELMINGLY for Kerry. He wouldn't have carried my county without their Dem votes.

[Lannes]

8. I believe its starting to shift to the GOP

I hope Im wrong but the hispanics Ive discussed politics with down here are pro-bush.I believe Bush's amnesty and guest worker overtures are moving them over to the right.

[aaronnyc]

10. He's wrong, but it is getting closer

In 2004: 53% of hispanics voted for Kerry while 44% voted for Bush. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
BTW, Hispanic Catholics were the group which shifted the most in favor of Bush from 2000 to 2004.

[wildwww2]

24. Thanks for the link. Great site by the way.

We are still arguing about the issue. But at least I could show him how hispanics voted in the last election. He is still pissed that Kerry conceded. And so am I. He does not want to believe the exit polls because where we live in Loxahatchee we did not get exit polled.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[UTUSN]

12. Well, Guess What--A Disconcerting Number ARE

But relax. The VAST MAJORITY of them -----------DON'T VOTE. We Dems need to disseminate the excellent get-out-the-vote techniques of our other components. Sorry to sound so clinical.

[skids]

15. There are large GOP hispanic communities.

Some Cuban communities in Florida are very right wing, for example.

But just look at last year's exit polls. Sure they are flawed, but they aren't so far off that one could say GOP has a majority. Kerry took hispanic votes 53% to 44%.

Those numbers might be sobering, though for those Dems who think it is a good idea to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration because they eventually become citizens (or raise their kids as naturalized citizens) and vote Dem... they don't vote THAT Dem.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

17. The religious ones are pro GOP due to Bush's anti-abortion stance

Their preists tell them who to vote for and they follow - not all of them of course, but most of the religious ones think they are doing the right thing by voting for the anti abortion president.

[UTUSN]

33. Plus the "Faith-based" B.S. and the Voucher-Crap n/t

[OrlandoGator]

26. Just Cubans, really...they never forgave JFK for Bay of Pigs.

n/t

[friesianrider]

35. There's a city near me that is HUGELY hispanic...

...and the rest of the county is insanely conservative.

The county went for Kerry 72%, thanks totally to that city of hispanics voting Dem.

[wli]

45. depends a lot on the flavor of Hispanic

e.g. the Cuban exiles in my family are so right-wing they're pretty much white supremacists (you might even say "Cuban supremacists"). Actually, they more or less say so themselves.

Anyway, this whole affair calls into question the immigration policy. Some flavor of amnesty for illegal immigrants already within US borders and other measures of bringing this affair within the province of law and order are necessary, as well as some kind of method of addressing the econmic impact.

[henslee]

48. That is one dum ass brother.