who destroyed the ancient library in Alexandria??

[bobbieinok]

I always heard it was the early Christians, but lately I've heard conservative Christians say it was the Muslims

and the destruction has resounded down the centuries as a barbaric destruction of civilization

so who destroyed the ancient cultural artifacts in the Baghdad museum?

another barbaric act of the destruction of civilization and culture

(I know the death of thousands is more important; but I just freaked when I first heard of the destruction of the artifacts of the earliest civilization.......some have claimed that not much was destroyed, it just 'disappeared'!?!?!?!)

[baldguy]

1. Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_library

"The library was destroyed circa 400 A.D. as a result of an edict by Theophilus enforcing Christian doctrine..."

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

2. self-delete

redundant

[libhill]

3. I've always heard

that it was accidentally destroyed by a fire, at the time of the Roman conquest of Egypt.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. That's what I remembering hearing. I never heard anyone being blamed. n/t

[libhill]

8. Leave it to religionists

to hurl accusations - "The Christians did it" , "No, the Muslims did it", ad nauseum.

[Ravenseye]

9. That was the first time and it was by accident

The first person to get the blame for the destruction of the library was Julias Caesar in 48 BC. He was pursuing Pompey into Egypt and when he was cut off he ordered the ships in the harbor to be set on fire. The fire spread and destroyed the Egyptian fleet, but also spread and bruned down part of the city.

There were plenty of Caesar detractors though so if he actually were responsible for the burning of the library there would have been far more evidence. As it is there is none.

[myrna minx]

18. I had always heard that it was Julius Caesar, until I read this book:

The Vanished Library (Hellenistic Culture and Society ; 7) (Paperback)
by Luciano Canfora, Martin Ryle (Translator

I read this book a few years back, which was quite entertaining. Its a bit disjointed at first, but really interesting.

a review:
From Publishers Weekly
Canfora, an expert in ancient literature and a professor at the University of Bari (Italy), has created a loving, anecdotal ramble through that fabled store of classical learning, the Library of Alexandria, its history and destruction, probably not, in Canfora's opinion, during Caesar's campaign but some 300 to 400 years later, as the Arab world began to encroach on a crumbling Roman Empire. The author stops along the way to consider some germane (and some tangential) subjects: the fate of Aristotle's writings, the rival library at Pergamum, Ramses II's victory over the Hittites at Kadesh, the creation of the Septuagint. To avoid further distractions on this peripatetic journey, Canfora reserves the exegesis of historical sources to the second half of the book. But this is not without its drawbacks: the sense that one is getting only half the story at any given point and the inevitable redundancies. Whatever the shortcomings of this approach to an admittedly murky subject, Canfora makes clear g the importance of the Library. No matter how much was destroyed, far more was conserved--or created--by the scholars and copyists who worked within its confines.
Copyright 1990 Reed Business Information, Inc.

[Ravenseye]

20. hmm

what does that author say? 300-400 years after Caesar would put it in the time period of the destruction of the library by the Christian mob.

[Kraklen]

25. There was a destruction of books, during Julius, I think...

could have been somebody else, but anyway... he had all texts on alchemy destroyed because he seriously thought they might turn lead into gold and bankrupt the economy. Lots of stuff was lost. Nothing to do with Alexandria though.

[libhill]

30. Sounds to me

like the distractions are as interesting as the main text - but that's just me. Gawd, who knows how much we lost, regardless of who was responsible -

[SoCalDem]

28. Fire and or earthquake is what i had heard

:)

[malmapus]

34. Same thing I heard / thought too

Thought it tied in with the Romans coming in.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

4. According to Rick Santorum, it was Hillary Clinton.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

5. The Clenis did it

one fell swoop

[Dhalgren]

7. Christians burned it and murdered Hypatia the last librarian of

the Great Library. She was the most highly educated person on earth and a true heroine. At the time of the burning, around 412 BCE, Mohammad had not yet even been born...

[kittenpants]

36. so the Muslims must have time-travelled back to destroy

the library! Even more devious, aren't they! That's what happens when you don't check the backpacks of all Muslim males, you know. :crazy:

[johannes1984]

10. them conservative christians

they went about doing a lot of those things , they killed all the followers of antinous which was a roman gay god ,....well he was the lover of emperor hadrianus ...I'm just saying ....because he had the same special powers as jezus did(the walking over water trick )...in rome they killed a few thousand by burning them alive .....the alexander library , in what i recall from history was more of a horny for power and whilst at the same time dick wagging thingie .


We lost most of the sources covering birth of western thought in that fire , ....which is good ,cause now pat robertson and crew can claim they have that covered .you can say a lot about them ...but not that they don't look ahead .


God?......i wouldn't mind divine intervention right now ..........and again the call goes unheeded

[libhill]

14. Yup

been going unheeded for, what - 2,000 years now? Looks like ol' J.C. is a day late, and a dollar short. Since it was supposed to have happened during his generation.

[johannes1984]

19. most aptly put ,i think there's only one word to mark the occasion

goddamnit

[libhill]

22. But I wish

he'd damn the Republicans and neo-con jerk offs, hateful militaristic anal bastards that they are -

[johannes1984]

23. heck

if he did that i wouldn't lie about my catholic heritage anymore

[izzie]

11. The Greek

:eyes:

[Ian David]

12. Theophilus ordered it burned-down to avoid paying his overdue book fees

Cheap bastard.

[charlie]

13. It's still there

http://www.alexandria.lib.va.us

Abide by the No Smoking rules and we can continue to enjoy it for decades to come.

[Ravenseye]

15. Three times - Once Intentionally

Once Accidentally, Once Intentionally, and Once not at all.

Caesar did it by accident while fighting Pompey in 48 BC, though there is no direct record that he actually did burn it down, the part of the city the library was in did burn, and they say the library went up too, though there is little evidence.

The second is a bit more chaotic and involved Christians. Theophilus was the Patriarch of Alexandria and he destroyed purposely abotu 10% of the library when he converted a temple into a church. Then his nephew Cyril became Patriach and riots broke out when a monk was publicly killed by the prefect of the city Orestes who was said to be under the influence of Hypatia the female philosopher and head librarian of the library. Christians became a mob, stormed the library, burned it and flayed Hypatia alive. The story differs depending who tells it but the library always burns and the Christians always drag her body through the streets and murder her.

The third person to burn the library, probably never did. It's a more popular story since the growth of anti-islamic sentiment in this coutnry. The Islamic Caliph Omar in 640 AD is said to have ordered the library burned because the knowledge there would either contradict the Koran and be heresy, or agree with it and be superfluous. The problem is that the quote and the storys of what happened are all traced to 300 years after this fact when the Christian Bishop Gregory Bar Hebraeus who spent all his time writing about other falsified Muslim atrocities jotted it down.

So three stories of it burning, one definately true and on purpose by a Christian mob, one probably true and accidental by Casear himself, and one apocryphal and almost certainly false by Caliph Omar.

[bemildred]

16. Yes.

:thumbsup:

Edit: It's probably worth noting that what we have of ancient
literature, we have by the failure of the early church to destroy
it all, and the good services of the muslim world in preservation.

[Kraklen]

24. What Ravenseye said.

Just to add to that...

Those muslims during the Caliphate, they were wonderful with storing ancient documents. Much of the ancient world we only know because they kept such good care of things, them and the Irish.

[bemildred]

26. Yes, props to the Irish too, good point. nt

[Karenina]

27. Oh those wacky X-tians!

Too bad about the Baghdad Museum, eh?

[Kraklen]

29. Yeah, Baghdad, what a mess.

It's like when the Mongols sacked it and destroyed the Caliphate.

[myrna minx]

31. How the Irish Saved Civilization by Thomas Cahill

is such a fantastic read. You are so correct with the assessment of the careful care taken my both the Muslims and the Irish in preserving ancient western culture.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385418493/002-1058525-5936866?v=glance
Editorial Reviews
A review:

Amazon.com
In this delightful and illuminating look into a crucial but little-known "hinge" of history, Thomas Cahill takes us to the "island of saints and scholars," the Ireland of St. Patrick and the Book of Kells. Here, far from the barbarian despoliation of the continent, monks and scribes laboriously, lovingly, even playfully preserved the West's written treasury. When stability returned in Europe, these Irish scholars were instrumental in spreading learning, becoming not only the conservators of civilization, but also the shapers of the medieval mind, putting their unique stamp on Western culture.

[malmapus]

35. Interesting, never knew all that...thanks Ravenseye!

I always chalked it up the Romans lol. :)

[Bridget Burke]

17. There were several libraries & several "destructions"

More legend than fact is available. This source has some good links:

http://baheyeldin.com/egypt/library-of-alexandria-bibliotheca-alexandrina.html

Julius Caesar was accused of burning it during his occupation of the city, but that's considered "apocryphal." Perhaps some extra copies of scrolls awaiting export were destroyed.

The Library & Museum continued for centuries, suffering occasional looting by Alexandrian mobs, targeted destruction of certain collections by rulers & the fortunes of war. But Alexandria remained a center of learning, where Pagan, Christian & Eastern thinkers could communicate.

Christian rioters caused a great deal of damage & murdered Hypatia. Some say that Arab conquerers did, in fact, destroy the remnants of the last library. Others do not, including several Christian sites referenced above.

Meanwhile, Alexandria has built a new library: www.bibalex.org/English/index.aspx

[Bossy Monkey]

21. Emperor Theodosius, per the Columbia Encyclopedia

Here: http://www.bartleby.com/65/al/AlxndriaEg.html

[BiggJawn]

32. Not surprising....

"...but lately I've heard conservative Christians say it was the Muslims..."

What do expect from the same bunch that stridently claim that neither Hitler nor Eric Rudolph are "REAL Christians"?

It's not just dishonest historians who are heavily into Revisionism...

[myrna minx]

33. I found an interesting research paper of this subject in

case you are interested.
http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm