So many of you here (and around the nation) are forgetting

[Closer]

that this election is about more than just fighting to get our country back.

It is also about fighting for the Democratic Party, and reclaiming it. It is no less than crucial in this election.

Don't blame the Greens for the Dem's loss in the last election. Blame the Democratic Party, the DLC, Joe Lieberman (and Katherine Harris).

If Clark gets the nomination, the Democratic Party, as we knew it, will officially be dead. Period.

And I hope and pray a Third Party will be created.

Don't be so naive my fellow Dems. Notice a fraud and setup when you see one.

[goobergunch]

1. ***FLAME WARNING***

FLAME ALERT LEVEL 1

[imax2268]

14. Second that...FLAME ALERT...

:eyes:

[joe_momma]

2. Nice try...

I used to think Dean would be a good running mate for Clark. Sheeple like you have changed my mind.

"The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else. It would be tough but we could do it." -- Howard Dean in 1995

"I have never favored a Social Security retirement age of 70 nor do I favor one of 68." -- Howard Dean in August of 2003

You are supporting a liar that will say whatever is necessary to get elected, not the 2nd coming of Christ, FDR or Clinton.

[diplomats]

3. Spare me the hyperbole

the Demcratic Party has been around for 200 years; it will not perish if we nominate Clark. The infighting between the liberal and nonliberal factions in the party is nothing new. We'll survive.

[tsipple]

10. The Democratic Party Has Never Nominated...

1. A candidate who helped the Republican Party raise money only 28 months before his running for the Democratic nomination.

2. A candidate who wouldn't even answer journalists' questions of whether he was, in fact, a Democrat until a couple months ago.

The Democratic Party has nominated generals, however. That's not new. (Andrew Jackson is a good example.)

Somebody please help me get past these two facts, because I'm getting really queasy. :-(

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. More Flame Bait....

Another person added to my ignore list....

Adios Amigo.... or Amiga....

Brian

[carpetbagger]

5. If Democrats choose Clark, Dean, Sharpton, or Joe, I'm stickin'

And I'll bet you that Wes Clark is a more loyal democrat than any of the my-way-or-the-highway "democrats".

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Since The Seminal Poster Is On My Ignore List I'll Point Out To You

that freeperish cartoon comes from the Chicago Tribune, a notoriously Puke newspaper....

[Justice]

6. And If Dean Gets the Nomination?

The party will be what - alive and well, to ride off into the sunset?

Not likely. Not because of Dean, just because there will always be people to the left and the right

Again, with the extreme positions. Please don't copy the RWs and be extreme. It is not helpful to the discussion.

[blondeatlast]

11. Well said. And welcome to DU!

:toast:

[gully]

7. I'm a Dean supporter, but if Wes gets the nom, he's got my vote.

No third party for me thanks. Some tried that in 2000...

[TreasonousBastard]

9. That does it for me.

I'm changing my vote.

[blondeatlast]

12. After long and careful deliberation . . .

Congratulations, Closer!

You are the first, and I hope only, person on my Ignore list.

BTW, we survived Clinton, way too far to the right for me and many in the party. Clark is to the left of him.

Adieu, farewell . . .

[kodi]

13. that's as dumb as a turnip and lazy as a three toed sloth thinking

but seriously...

look, you got it all wrong. no one election, no one presidential nominee is going to cause either the transformation of the democratic party to a modern day whig party or an overnight change to a party directly responsive to its grass roots.

political entities such as the democratic party have too much structure and roots to them that reach into the local communities nation-wide to collapse, redirect quickly, or decease.

the democratic party is not about to be re-directed from the top down, because its power centers are too diffuse, and any presidential candidate who is successful will have to have the basic support of the rank and file democrats who are active in the party and who run the party apparatus.

perhaps one is thinking that the democratic party is run by stalinist principles where whatever the top dog wants done gets done. this is not the case, because the strength of the party is in its people, people who are there for the party when it needs volunteers and money. these folks are hardly the type who follow orders they dont like.

and this dovetails with what dean has actually started vis-a-vs grass roots activism and which seems blurry to you in focusing only on the man himself with your forlorn comment about the demise of the party, or at least its principles: what are you personally going to do about it? will you work as an activist for the party and thereby have your own personal voice heard, even if it is at only town or local precinct levels? because this is where one or a movement philosophy starts to take over a party for the long haul and this is where a political party is most effective in impacting on its members and citizens at large. the largest form of impact government has is at the local level. if you cant get people to believe in you and what you stand for in your own neighborhood, dont expect it to happen nationally.

so, anyone who complains that this election cycle and the decisions made by it are terminal aren't thinking hard and are too lazy to look at the deeper implications, because regardless if dean wins or not anything, the most important thing is that he has reawakened in people the potential for us to control our lives by participation in the political process directly one person at a time locally.

this is the golden fleece from dean (and gore before him), it has nothing to do with him, his pearly teeth or promising programs. its about US, not him.

[Padraig18]

15. Just another example of..

... "my way or the highway" intolerant-of-dissent, leftist 'ideological purity' freaks!

:eyes:

[10digits]

16. YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!!

Dean needs to blow even harder!

[salin]

17. great - another thread - with a slight twist

that fits with a bunch of other threads on this topic.

I appreciate your point - but could you make it on one of the existing threads?

Or is no discussion besides Clark or Dean allowed in GD anymore? Because the net effect of starting a thread that fits with several existing threads and that will result in a mirror Dean thread is pushing ALL substantive ISSUE topics off of the front page. Within minutes.

Sorry but this is frustrating.

*this is todays pat response to the proliferation of identical threads that has shut down all other conversations among people, on issues, that are about beating BUSH, fighting back against BUsh policies, but devoid of clark or dean.* If ya'll can spam the forum - then I can spam your threads.