Should we stay or should we go?

[dsc]

The role of gays in a straight world

In 2000, the notion that watching Queer as Folk would lead to deep thoughts was absured. QAF was an unapolgetically uber gay show. No sexless eunics these. Brian reacted to the trashing of his car by simply driving off and continuing to lead his hedonistic life.

Now, in its final year, the show is about nothing less than the role of gays and lesbians in a straight world. The insulated world of Liberty Avenue has been invaded by the very real forces of the straight world.

The simple fact is that like any minority gays and lesbians have to make a decision as to how much interaction with the straight world they wish to have. Do we lock ourselves in a gay ghetto where we work with gays and lesbians , live with gays and lesbians , play with gays and lesbians, and worship with them or do we live in predominately straight places, work with straights, play with straights, and worship with them. We also have to decide if we will be honest with those straights.

But now the decision is becoming even more extreme. For more than a few gays and lesbians the question is seriously being asked; do we stay or do we go? A combination of nearby Canada joining the cutting edge of gay rights and a very real fear about the future of the US is starting a conversation among gays and lesbians of should we stay or should we go.

When Bush was installed in 2000, though we lost the political power we had under Clinton we could honestly cast it as an abberation and an illegitimate power grab. Not only did Gore win more popular votes than Bush, a strong case can be made that Bush stole Florida in order to eek out the technical win he ended up with.

But then 2004 happened. Not only did we lose 11 referenda by mostly large margins, Bush rode back into the White House in part on the skillful use of anti gay bigotry. But wait, it gets worse, Dean may well have lost the primaries due to his courageously discussing gay rights. No less than Bill Clinton called Iowans telling them that Dean was unfit for the Presidency due to his signing Civil Unions legislation. By any measure, 2004 was an unmitigated disaster for gays and lesbians.

Using the standard number of 6% of LGBT voters and assuming a 9 to 1 split, the 61% of Ohioans who voted for the amendment banning any recognition of relationships outside of marriage, ends up being close to 65% of straight Ohioans. It is pretty hard to imagine more of message that we don't have much of a role in straight society. I often wondered what African American Lousianians felt after David Duke narrowly lost his race for Senate despite the fact that 2 out of 3 white Lousianians voted for him. I don't have to wonder anymore.

I have always taken the assimulationists side in the debate on the roles of gays and lesbians in straight society. I would miss my family too much to retreat to some gay ghetto and never let them in. So I told them about myself and moved back to my hometown. The meltdown of the economy forced me to move elsewhere but I took the assimulationist route again. I live in a small town but go to a gay friendly church with both straights and gays. I have some gay friends and many straight ones. That is the way I choose to lead my life.

I have no intentions of leaving my town, much less my country, right now. But I am certainly deciding to become more able to leave if I need to. The simple fact is that we are at a turning point. I would like to think that we are on the winning side of history here. But the signs, at least the ones that are most immediate, aren't all that good.

Our opponents are emboldened in a way that is evident all around us. They are taking on Ford and Kraft. They already caused the mighty Gates to cower. TV is rapidly becoming berefit of gay and lesbian characters yet again. On HBO, Six Feet Under is in its last season, on Showtime QAF is in its last season, NBC is probably going to cancel Will and Grace after next year. None of that would be so bad if there were replacements ready but there appear to be none. Only the L word will be left. The United Church of Christ can't run ads which all but subliminally tout their acceptence of gays and lesbians, but Focus on the Family can sponser Super Nanny. All the while our opponents have the unmitigated gaul to whine that they are the victims of discrimination.

Things are certain to change in the next few years. But the direction of that change is far from certain. Remember Colorado Issue 2. We won that fight in the Romer case or we would have had literally dozens of states banning any entity within them from granting gay and lesbian citizens rights.

The 1970's were pretty good years for gays and lesbians. They saw our first elected officials, our first gay rights laws, and the bare beginnings of cultural acceptance. Then the 1980's came and much of that was reversed or atleast stalled. Then we had the gay 1990's. They saw an unparalled acceptence of gays as a part of the fabric of this country. It is still too early to categorize the 2000's. After all, it is the decade of Lawerence, civil unions, and marriage. But it is also the decade of Bush, Roberts, and anti gay referenda.

In the final analysis, gays and lesbians, like any other minority, only have so much say of the role they get in society. So to the straights out there, do we stay or do we go?

[dsc]

1. kick

[dsc]

2. kick

[Hardrada]

3. Stick around. We'll help you with Same Sex Marriage

If you help us with Choice.

[dsc]

4. You are in a vastly stronger position on choice than we are on marriage

Even if you eliminate Roe, which I am unsure will happen, unless it gets replaced by a decision that mandated the protection of fetal life, I honestly doubt that abortion would be all that strongly regulated in most of the country. Popularity helps you in that regard.

In my case I am waiting for 2008. If things don't improve then I might have to think about Canada.

[Hardrada]

5. OK, we'll all work for 2008.

I'm too old to move so I have to carry on the struggle here.

[dsc]

7. After 08 I will be too old to go as well

40 is the cut off for most countries and I will be right at that point in 08. Of course if I meet a sweet Canadian guy then I would be all good.

[Sapphocrat]

12. 44 is the cutoff for Canada...

At least, as far as taking a big hit on the number of points you lose on the immigration assessment calculations.

Canada might have been an option for us at one time, but no more -- I turn 44 in September.

On the other hand, marriage (or same-sex immigration to any of the other 14 or 15 other countries that offer it) is always an option. And I can give you a long list of reasons partnering up with a fur'ner can be so... well, fun, actually. A blend of cultures can be the icing on the cake. :)

[dsc]

14. I will be 41 a month after the 08 elections

As a teacher I would likely still get some points added for that. If it looks necessary I would try to learn enough French, I took both Latin and Spanish in high school and Spanish in college, to get at least the minimum points for that. As for the marriage option, well let's just say I am in the market.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. Please stay.

There are straight people who love you. Who support you. Who will and are fighting for you and alongside you.

I had a friend in my class this summer who kept referring to his "roommate" and it made me sad. Why? It made me sad that he didn't feel free to discuss his life partner as freely as others of us could and did. I can just say "my husband" and people know all that entails--the romantic angle of the relationship, the life partner part, co-parent, everything.

But this guy had to use the euphemistic "roommate" as if his life partner were just someone he splits the cable bill with. :-( I know he wasn't his roommate because we talked outside of class and he told me. He said it's just too dangerous to say "partner" when you don't know the views of the people around you.

Some people might think saying roommate as opposed to partner is no big deal, but it is. I'd be sad if I had to reduce one of the most important people in my life to roommate. And it's also indicative of bigger, deeper issues in our society--the fact that he has to be so incredibly wary of prejudice that he can't even live and love openly like I can.

All in all, it breaks my heart. Don't go, ok? Please don't. We'll keep fighting and working. I have NO DOUBT in my mind that I will someday be telling my grandchildren about how gay people used to have to live and they will be amazed that things were ever the way they are now. No doubt.

[dsc]

8. A mass gay exodus is quite unlikely

as for an exodus of one, that is also on the slim side. I think 08 is the election which will decide just how safe gays will feel at the end of the day.

[Bouncy Ball]

9. ...

:hug:<---a million hugs

Oh I know it's unlikely. But all of this is very heart-breaking to me. The governor of Texas, Rick Perry, suggested that gay veterans returning to Texas from Iraq could just move somewhere else if they don't like how gays are treated here. He really did, just about six weeks ago. What a motherfucker.

Hang in there. We're with you. And I'm not shy about letting other people know about my support for gay rights, either. Silence implies consent for the status quo and I don't want anyone to think I'm ok with what's going on right now.

[dsc]

10. Thanks

The other point of your first post is also quite telling. I don't have a partner at this time but I have to say that I would be hard pressed to be honest about having one at work. I have a couple of good friends who can't even live together due to not wanting to be dishonest about it like they know they would have to.

[Sapphocrat]

11. The ONLY reason I've stayed this long...

...is that I've got an aged parent in shaky health, and I'm the only child nearby. Period. If that situation were to change on Wednesday, I'd have the house sold Thursday, and be on the first plane to Australia Friday.

Is it any better in Australia? Not really. But at least fc and I would finally have a life together. And go ahead -- just ask her how many times I've talked about moving as far away from straight society as we can possibly get.

But that's another story.

Yet, I'm no separatist. I love my straight family and friends. Unfortunately, the straight folks who love me are far outnumbered by those who'd love to imprison me or just kill me outright.

(That's not hyperbole. Spend some time reading what the "mainstream" wingnuts say about us.)

There are only two times when lesbians and gay men are of any importance in this society: 1) When the Democrats need our donations and our votes, and 2) when we serve as the perfect wedge issue for the Republicans.

(I believe the Greens are sincere in their support of LGBT rights, but they're in no position to do anything about it.)

Am I bitter? You bet. I've spent my life being a hardworking, law-abiding, taxpaying citizen of a country that promised that I, too, could share the "American Dream" -- and then I learned that the "Dream" didn't apply to people like me -- that "equality" was for rich, white, heterosexual males and their wives (in that order). The "Dream" was just a big, fat lie invented to temporarily placate people like me while my resources were being drained and my pocket was being picked.

And I have unfailingly supported a party that promises me a piece of the pie "when the time is right" -- yet the time is never right.

The most difficult thing for me to absorb has been the slow and sure understanding that I live in a society that doesn't want me as a member. If I'm lucky, I may be "tolerated." But who wants to be "tolerated," as if one were a stray, sick cat that just won't go away?

Why, then (family obligations aside), should I want to stay? I'm no masochist, nor do I want to be a martyr.

Thanks for a great post, dsc. You (obviously) hit a very sore spot for me -- but sometimes that can be a good thing.

[dsc]

16. I can understand the parent thing

My dad is in his 70's. His health is steady but not great. I would hate to be across a border or worse an ocean. After he is gone though, the calculation would be quite different.

[foreigncorrespondent]

13. I'd leave in a heartbeat.

Being in a country with government representatives on both sides of the political fence ruling in favor of banning any and all recognition of same sex marriage, I know exactly where you are coming from.

When Howard first announced that he intended to pursue a ban on recognition of same sex marriage, by declaring marriage is a union between one man and one woman a lot of my fellow Aussies said that it would never pass. They simply couldn't make a part of the Australian community second class, yet they did. And it wasn't the first time a part of this community was declared second class, just think of the Aborigines.

At least so far here in Australia, I still have the right to sponsor Sapphocrat for immigration. How long that will last, I do not know. Howard has given religion a place in our government, and allows that religion to make rules all Australians have to live by, regardless of who they are, or what religion they follow.

When I joined DU, I found a community of people from all walks of life with one thing in common, we all shared the mutual belief in what the left stood for. But since Bush* stole office, I have been witness to many on DU make a shift to the right. Blaming the queer community for losses in elections, telling us we need to wait until the time is right for our piece of the pie, and downright homophobic intolerance. Not by all, but by enough to make an impact on the community DU once was.

With that shift being so noticeable in an online forum, imagine how large the shift in the real world actually is. And with a shift like that really shows how little room there actually is for all minority groups, but most importantly the queer community which is at the bottom of the minority shit heap.

The losses to our community are large, and getting larger with each passing day. We are now faced with police officers not wanting to do their job properly when a crime happens against a queer couple. And speaking of crimes, since a homophobic president was installed, hate crimes have risen, and will continue to rise. And given that, if I was queer and living in the U.S. in the current climate, I would be the first one on a plane out of there, because nothing is worth risking ones life over.

Now Sapph and I have invested over five years in our relationship. She doesn't have the right to sponsor me, but I do have that right to sponsor her for immigration. And that, is the only reason I remain in Australia. Once Sapph is here, and we have begun our life together, we will weigh up all our choices and made a solid decision on whether to stay in Australia or not.

[dsc]

15. If it were only one party

you could hope the opposition could simply reverse the policy. I had thought about moving to Austrailia in my 20's when our economy was so bad under Bush 1 but then Clinton came and I thought, sweet. Now I am honestly beginning to wonder. My dad is in his 70's and I have a grandmother in her 90's. After they are gone, if I don't have a relationship here and the country is still a mess, I may well ship out. In any case, I hope things work out for you.