What I think should be done about this "Intelligent Design" talk

[FreedomAngel82]

I'm all for debating people about ideas. I'm a Christian but I also love science and looking at everything. Mostly Creationsim comes from an idea. In Genesis one God is saying something to happen and it apparently happens. Can you prove God exists? No. Can you prove he doesn't? No. That's why it's called faith. What I think should happen is the students themselves should decide. When I was in high school at the end of the year we got a survey and was able to vote on certain issues from having a dress code or not to going all year or not. I think they should add this. If majority of the students want this taught in an optional class, why not? You wouldn't have to take it and people can serioulsy have a discussion about this idea and belief. In my high school we had a Bible History class we could've taken if we wanted and it would've been counted as a credit. You still had to take all your other classes as well like the basic math and science and English classes etc. But if majority of the students,not the parents,wanted this type of class, then why not? You wouldn't have to take it. Especially if it's in a public school. In my Bible History class the teacher couldn't preach to you at all so it would be something like that. Just my opinion.

[Kraklen]

1. That's ridiculous.

Should we teach that the earth is flat too?

[shoelace414]

2. the problem is

you are elevating it to the same level as real hard science.

I relate it to the Swift boat thing. It's not just two sides to the story, one side is more right than the other.

[Walt Starr]

3. I'm all for teaching Intelligent Design in science classes

as soon as they can tell me who designed the designer,

and then who designed the designer that designed the designer,

and then who designed the designer that designed the designer that designed the designer,

and then who designed the designer that designed the designer that designed the designer that designed the designer,...

ad infinitum.

[bryant69]

9. Well by the designer, don't most of them mean some kind of God?

I guess I don't understand this question. Although some religions/mythic structurs have generations of Gods, the Judeo Christian belief system dominent in the United States believe in a God who was existent from the beginning to the end.

I would agree with the origional poster if such an elective class was strictly voluntary, was not paid for by tax dollars, and taught as a specifically religious class.

Religion and Science answer fundamentally different kinds of questions - suggesting that Religion can provide the same answers as Science is like using a hammer to remove a nail (the hammer part not the hook part on the other side). It won't work and will probably end up being pretty desctructive.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[LastDemocratInSC]

32. I think what you're suggesting is called a church

[CTFT]

4. Propoganda Agenda

This guy (Bush) is so screwed up. You can teach “Abstinence Only”, “Intelligent Design”. This is very dangerous when the Prez tells us what we can and cannot learn. What does he care? He has his own agenda and is not up for re-election. Frist is just as bad. This must be another Karl Rove tactic on how to start massaging the public and get them to believe whatever flavor of the month you are selling. They are so EVIL……………………….

[wryter2000]

14. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[CTFT]

19. Nice to meet ya

Thanks for the welcome. We do need to read between every line at this stage of the game. I might as well tattoo the word "Cynic" on my forehead by now. Cheaper than making signs and washing Tee Shirts all the time:)

[bvar22]

5. The only argument needed to totally discredit "Intelligent Design."

[BlueEyedSon]

6. You don't vote on the accuracy/validity of a scientific law.

It is peer-reviewed. Usually over years (even generations).

The issue is do schools exist to teach religious dogma (and be aware the Xtian creation myth is only one of dozens) or science.

[frazzledmom]

7. Gee, lets teach a class about Elf's and Orc's

and fairies and wizards too... You wanna teach "intelligent design"(why anybody with any intelligence would want to design this train wreck is beyond me) teach it in mythology class. Right next to the stories of Zeus and the other Greek gods...

[spooked911]

8. Yes! And welcome to DU!

:toast: :party: :toast:

[stopbush]

10. Offer a class on religious "history" and stick the Biblical

account in there with no more weight than Mithras and Zeus and I'd be fine with that - except you're using tax money to teach religion.

But to teach ID as science? BS. Why not teach ID as part of the English or Music curriculum? It has as little validity there as in science.

[stopbush]

11. If the majority of students wanted a class on how to use

recreational drugs, should we have that too?

[wryter2000]

12. It's bad science

It isn't a matter of opinion. It isn't a matter of faith. Either God created the different species or they evolved. All the evidence points to evolution. All of it. Would you allow kids to vote on whether they could create their own version of American history?

[FreedomAngel82]

13. All I think

is the parents shouldn't have the say but the kids. The kids are the one's who will be learning and educating themselves. You wouldn't have to take the class. Like at my high school we had a Bible History class. Nobody had to take it but people did and I did and enjoyed it. :shrug: So why afraid of having it optional?

[Kraklen]

15. That's ridiculous too.

Letting kids decide what they're taught at school?

It'd be all sex ed and PE.

Here's a crazy fucking idea.

How about we have scientists figure out science.

Historians can figure out history.

Mathematicians figure out the math.

And let the teachers do the teaching.

[BlueEyedSon]

16. Because it does not belong in school. It's our "secular" tax dollars

[FreedomAngel82]

18. So by that notion

the Bible History class I took shouldn't be there either? :eyes: I guess then the students shouldn't decide if they should have uniforms or go all year either eh?

[BlueEyedSon]

22. Bible history, possibly not. Depends on the content and whether it's

core or elective. If a bunch of non-xtian parents got pissed, i bet they could get the ACLU to file suit.

[rman]

21. So have ID in Bible History class

that's were it belongs.

[ovidsen]

17. One problem

I don't have a difficult time with the concept of public high school courses based on the Bible as history or literature. The Book has certainly had an impact on culture, and exploring that impact is justifiable. Credit for such courses is fine. I don't mind tax dollars for them either.

But I have serious questions about basing a science course on the Bible. It's true that evolution is a theory, and not fact. But it's a theory backed up by a ton of evidence. However, there is no evidence whatsoever (outside of the Bible) supporting the theory that some sentient, cognizant entity was behind the universe, stars, earth, and homo sapiens. None. To insist that creation was just too gosh darn complicated to happen spontaneously simply begs the question, what evidence is there that God exists, and if (s)she does, had anything to do with the universe? If houses of worship or private schools want to teach this, fine. But not with tax money. Just my opinion.

[FreedomAngel82]

20. And if the majority wants it

they shouldn't have it either eh? I personally don't care if it's an optional class if majority of the students want that type of class. They'd still have all the major classes. At my school we had certain classes we chould choose to sign up and take. Band, chorus, art, gym, Bible History and there were some others. This counted as a credit. With the Bible History class by law, since this was a public school, the teacher couldn't preach to us. Of course can you prove God exists? No. Can you prove he doesn't? No. In Genesis one God said for something to happen and it happened. How can you prove this? Beats me. If you can prove this happened then you can prove God exists. I don't see a problem with having this type of class there for students to take if they're intersted in it. Of course nobody would make you take it just like nobody made me take Bible History. I did both sections because I wanted to. Same thing with this ordeal I think.

[BlueEyedSon]

23. Yes, the school curriculum is not a "democracy" of the students

Didn't you see "Wild in the Streets"???



PS can you seriously "prove" that the storyline in ANY fictional book did not actually "happen"?

[rman]

24. Truth is not a matter of majority vote

That's why pupils don't have much say in what the teachers will teach them.

[Guaranteed]

25. Nor is the Constitution.

I don't know about this teaching the Bible shit in public schools- at ALL. For "history" or "literature" or whatever.

That's what CHURCH is for. Not schools.

[wryter2000]

28. I'm fine with Comparative Religion as a class

Bible History shows a bias for Christianity, and that's in violation of the First Amendment in public schools.

Comparative Religion is fine at the University level, but I have to believe that most high schools would better spend their resources on core classes or things like music and art.

[Zhade]

31. One more time...

It.

Is.

NOT.

Science.

Do not even THINK about teaching it in a science class. It fails the basic premise of the class.

Also, you have a basic fallacy in your post:

"If you can prove this happened then you can prove God exists."

It can be shown that the world was created (by accumulation of cosmic debris over quite a long time). This does NOT prove any gods exist who did the creating.

[lynettebro440]

26. Aren't we forgetting the constitution?

Isn't this why we have churches to teach what it is they want to teach? I thought that was the whole purpose of being in a church, to learn their beliefs. School is not church, nor should church curriculm be taught in public schools. If you want your child taught this way then fork up the money and go to a private school, that is also their choice to make. Why are we making this an issue.

[Ready4Change]

27. Only science in Public Schools.

Religious beliefs, which is what intelligent design is, belong in religious, Sunday-type schools.

Reason being, parents can choose which religion and beliefs they want their children exposed to.

Public Schools should teach hard, verifiable, repeatable facts. That means science. Christian beliefs and it's miracles, Wiccan beliefs and their magic, Buddhist beliefs and their zen, belong in the realm of private, not public life.

Or, if you insist on teaching intelligent design, you've got to teach a broad spectrum of OTHER creation beliefs. That includes Wiccan, Satanic, Buddhist, Islamic, etc...

So, can you accept the teaching of Satanic beliefs in public schools? If not, then Christian beliefs don't belong there either.

[kahleefornia]

29. Intelligent Design 101

If intelligent design were to be taught in a public school as an alternative *science* class, what experiments would be carried out? What models would be studied? What consistently reproduceable results would you get from intelligent design calculations?

I think Angel's question has two parts: 1. Is intelligent design science or faith? And 2. should we be teaching faith in public schools, even if it were elective?

I say no to both. You know, I think I'm even against after school Bible study groups, even without any tax money involvement. Someone else already posted this, but I believe it is the core of the matter and bears repeating: if you want to introduce spiritual/supernatural/mythical beliefs in a public education setting, you have to open the discussion up to ALL beliefs and give them equal weight. A class on origin myths would be very interesting from a historical perspective. A class on the idea that the earth is carried on the back of a giant turtle, carrying people who were formed of the mud at the bottom of Grand Canyon *as an alternative view of evolution*....hey, some people think that. And until they show me the turle and find mud in my DNA, I'm inclined to not consider it science.

I don't think students should decide the matter, because the issue is too weighty for many adults to master. Even having an elective class that is teaching a non-scientific belief system as a science is going to result in confused kids who are unable to separate the two.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Kids should not make decisions about curriculum n/t