A Plea For A Substantive Discussion

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Many here are questioning Wes Clark's loyalty to the Democratic Party.... They cite his votes for Republican candidates in the past.....Given the fact that Nixon got 62% of the vote, Ronald Reagan got 59% of the vote and Papa Bush got 54% of the vote there were alot of folks who weren't Republicans voting for those candidates...

Politics is all about perception... Maybe having Wes Clark at the top of the ticket will bring some of those Reagan-Nixon-Bush voters back to the Democratic party....

To paraphrase LBJ I'd rather have these lapsed Democrats, independents, and enlightened Republicans in our tent pissing out than outside our tent pissing in...

[MercutioATC]

1. I agree. It's not really an issue. I just want to hear more of what he

has to say about domestic issues. People can have issues that he's voted Republican or was career military, but I don't think those are issues with his candidacy.

[MuseRider]

2. I am trying to wade

through the vast comments on Clark and checking on the links provided. I would like to feel better about him. It does worry me, all the talk about his loyalties and I am thinking I would feel much better if he had been a Democrat for a longer time. However these times make for fast and solid changes in the way people feel about the current administration. We are very fast to welcome others. I will remain hopeful for a while until I sort this all out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. What People Ignore

is if Wes Clark announced he was a flaming lib he would have been drummed out of the officer corps....

[MuseRider]

6. He had to remain

non partisan from what I have read. I really want to believe he is good for us, I want to believe they are all good for us but you know what? I am so sick to death of all the threads and bashing when I post about my prefered candidate that I have begun to ignore Dean entirely. I don't know enough about Clark yet, he is still new. Will it get so bad that people start avoiding him too? I know my response is immature and frankly stupid given the fight we have against Bush* but I can only take so much before even the good guys start to look like devils.

[salin]

4. great - another thread - with a slight twist

that fits with a bunch of other threads on this topic.

I appreciate your point - but could you make it on one of the existing threads?

Or is no discussion besides Clark or Dean allowed in GD anymore? Because the net effect of starting a thread that fits with several existing threads and that will result in a mirror Dean thread is pushing ALL substantive ISSUE topics off of the front page. Within minutes.

Sorry but this is frustrating.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. This Thread Is Different-It's Intended To Be Flame Retardant...

First flame and I'm out... I'm not repsonding, just leaving....

[MercutioATC]

9. Agreed. NOT flame-bait.

I really don't have a problem with Clark other than I really want to hear his domestic policies outlined.

[salin]

13. flamebait or not

here is the problem today. Thread a related to x topic. Thread b a refutation of x topic. Thread c a mimicking of x topic against the other candidate. Thread d a thread mimicking the refutation of x topic used against the other topic. Then do the same for topic l, and topic m, and topic n, and topic o.

All are related. All could have been posts on the first thread. But instead each twist was so important there were suddenly 4x5... 20 threads all posted within an hour - all followed with the same fighters ... all making it next to impossible to keep track of actual discussions beyond the fight -because the gazillion new (but almost identical threads) - keep proliferating.

It is like you are intentionally chasing off discussions on anything but the grand clark/dean fight.

No discussion of issues pending before congress. No discussions of the bush polls falling and his growing weakness. No discussions of his trip and the very odd dealings with Russia. No discussions of Bush's pending trip to UK and what effect it might have on blair.

Get the point. The sheer volume of almost identical threads - but each being SO important that it needs its own thread - is strangling this forum.

[MercutioATC]

14. I see your point, but I think you're painting with too wide a brush...

Not ALL candidate threads here are without value. Sure, there are other issues to be discussed...perhaps even more pressing issues.

We seem to have had a rather large influx of newer members recently. They should all be given a voice (as we were). The grain will separate from the chaff (as always) and we'll be that much stronger for the new voices.

It's just a tough day here. Give it a week or so...

[Classical_Liberal]

7. Atleast 23% of them are dead. That is presuming a 100 yr lifespan

. It isn't really a priorty to me. They were also employed in certain industries like Defense contracting. This is the primary reason they like republicans. That is why California USED to be republican. They are retired and those industries are not around. I am voting Dean, for a new era and new thinking about politics.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. The Change In Cali Politics Can Be Attributed To Demographic Shifts

For instance if * gets the same % of votes by race as he did in 00 he loses by 2,500,000 -3,000,000 votes....

There are substantially more Asians, African Americans, and
Hispanics, as a percentage of the total population than the rest of the nation...All these groups lean Democratic with African Americans leaning the most and Asians leaning the least with Hispanics in the middle.....

These demographic trends are the cornerstone on which the Emerging Democratic Majority is built on....

This raises two points....

Even with a hospitalble demographic environment the Dems are in danger of losing the CA governorship ....

And I think Hispanics and Asians are up for grabs if the Dems fail to address their issues....

[Classical_Liberal]

11. That is because Arnold is running as a Rockefeller republican

That is actually a good thing. I would like that wing of the republican party to get some leverage against the fundies and the neocons.

[quaker bill]

8. I agree

and I love the LBJ quote!! nice post.

Kick past the bashing threads

[arwalden]

12. Hells Bells... I Voted For Reagan and Bush 1...

... am I disqualified... banned from DU?

-- Allen

[Donna Zen]

15. The California vote is troubling

and from the perspective of someone on the other coast, unbelievable. What is happen here! Losing California is going to mean a heavy blow that will reverberate into 2004.

The demographic that also bothers me is the military becoming a wing of the repuglickin party. That is the most dangerous movement in American politics.

Yes, the repubs have always courted the vote: Saint Ronnie ran on a pledge of more money, Bush the elder also offered goodies to the military. It should come as no surprise that people within the military would vote for them. Now personally I agree with the Democratic position of balancing our national priorities and our needed social agenda with national security needs. Also, the Dems. have consistantly supported the vets.; nevertheless, perception can be everything.

The last thing we need is the military as part of one political party. Clark's non-partisan stance is the desired one, not the one to be questioned. I was surprised to hear Dean claim that Clark was a repub since that is simply untrue. However, the demographic issue needs to be taken seriously since it could have a huge role in destroying what's left of our democracy.