Hey DUers, Does The Notion Of Karma Give You Any Solace These Days?

[DistressedAmerican]

I find my self looking for positive thoughts to hang some hope on in these ugly days. Karma is one of those notions that I come back to over and over.

I do not really believe in karma in the traditional Buddhist sense. But, I do believe that people that put positivity out into the world usually get it reflected back. The same holds true for those spreading negativity.

I'll admit that Bush has tested my belief in this regard. But, I still maintain that Karma will catch up to him.

What about you? Do you think the wheel will eventually come around with a little karmic retribution or has this administration somehow thrown a wrench into the whole works?

What about you DU Buddhists? I know that sorrow is an illusion and all. But, this guy must even try your serenity!

Sorry this graphic is pretty large. Give it a minute of you are not on a high speed connection...

--

[pitohui]

1. no

it gives me no solace to think that god is keeping score so that we can tit for tat and eye for an eye forever

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Yes, it brings me comfort

[Horse with no Name]

3. It won't until

I see a cosmic karma smackdown of these thugs..then I will feel better.;)

[Pobeka]

4. The only relief I get from the theory of kharma is the good ones get out.

Kharma is in a sense very impersonal, and it is not vengeful. It is just the way things work out in the spiritual realm, like gravity in the physical realm.

The challenge is to rise above the vengence, and hate you may want or feel for these thugs, and see them as spirits who are confused but will eventually be straightened out after many, many, many more iterations than it will likely take you.

That challenge is particularly difficult these days...

[wli]

5. not really (Hinduism experts please correct any errors here)

IIRC it's only supposed to affect one's caste and/or spiritual status after reincarnation. They (and presumably we) will all be dead before it takes effect.

Also, last I checked karma is accumulated by deviations from the role one's supposed to take in life (unless I misunderstand things). If their role in life is supposed to be oppressing us, they won't accumulate any karma, nor will they be reincarnated into a lower caste.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

6. Nope.

Don't believe in the concept, so no.

[marions ghost]

7. great graphic DA !

that is just excellent :toast:

Well I think it's safe to say that the group spinning on the wheel will one day take their place among the most despised leaders in American history. And the way they're going they'll probably make the ranks of the biggest criminals in human history. Now how they're going to pay off those theoretically huge karmic debts, I don't pretend to know. But their lives are not in any way enviable, no matter if you believe in the laws of karma or not. No matter how much they 'win'--would you ever trade places with any one of them? No, because we who align with "good" as best we can, know that these twisted entities are already living in hell.

[Swamp Rat]

8. Mmmm! Karma!

Tastes good! :9



PS I love your "Wheel of Misfortune!" :D

[DistressedAmerican]

19. Very Nice! PM Me! We Should Catch Up. You Have New Stuff

a plenty that I have not seen or posted to the site.

CHUMP! LOL!

[Swamp Rat]

20. I just finished this 1 minute ago!:

:D

[DistressedAmerican]

21. You Have Stumped Me! Who Is That?

Very Cool Though!

Seen this yet?

[Swamp Rat]

22. Jean Schmidt... the election that was stolen in Ohio last night.

edit: Great pic, both this one and the one in the OP, which I REALLY dig. :D

[DistressedAmerican]

23. Ah! Knew The Name. But, Not The Face.

How could ANYONE believe that lizard is anything but a threat to women's, civil and any other rights they can get their hands on? Pisses me off. Dumbasses!

[Swamp Rat]

25. I'm not letting up on that issue!

We can chew bubble gum and kick Nazi Lizard ass at the same time! ... more than one of 'em at a time! :eyes: To me, EVERYTHING THEY DO is the issue of the day. Rove/Plame, stolen elections, Roberts, CAFTA, Gannongate, Bolton, alien invasion... ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!! Never let up on these bastards until THEY are ALL behind bars!!! :mad:

[DistressedAmerican]

27. Amen Bro! I Am So Sick Of These "This Or That Is Just A Distraction"

theads. When you are fighting a war you fight it on ALL fronts. I think people loose the forest for the trees and it drives me nuts sometimes. I will rest when the repug spin rests. In other words, "until THEY are ALL behind bars!!!"

Screw them, and the parents that bore them!

[Swamp Rat]

28. HAHA! Did you make that Santorum pic?

I just finished one of him too... it was long overdue!

:D



edit: Btw, on another topic, what do you think about electronic submission of a thesis/diss? I kinda would like to bind them and submit them to the library, but I also see the advantages of making a .pdf - instant world wide dissemination. My school makes you choose between one or the other (really stupid). :eyes:

[DistressedAmerican]

31. Yep, It Is Mine. Figured I'd Leave A Name Off. Leave It Rick Santorum's

Work!

If I had to choose, I'd check with kinkos and see what it would cost to have them bind a copy to spec from the pdf they make. heir scanning rates are out of control. Or you could have them bind it and scan it yourself if you have scanner access. There is a free program that my father-in-law just told me about called Primo PDF. that will convert your scans into multipage pdf's. I haven't played with it yet. I'm sure there are others.

Since you have to choose, have them do the more costly and do the other yourself.

I guess if you do the PDF yourself, they will not post it? If not, go with digital and print a copy from the pdf to submit. They will always take a print copy for the shelf.

Looks Like we used the same santorum pic....

[Swamp Rat]

33. I can make the .pdf myself and submit it electronically.

Kinkos will NEVER get my business again, and hasn't for 8 years (I worked there for years until it became corporate). I was just curious as to your opinion about what format you prefer, and the pros and cons, etc. I'm gonna call them right now and ask why I can't do both.



edit: I need coffee... my spelling and grammar sucks right now.

[DistressedAmerican]

49. Fair Enough. I Hate Them Too! Evil Corporate As It Gets...

Push them and maybe they will let you do both!

[kineneb]

9. I am a Buddhist

and in my non-technical view of karma, they will get theirs. A more universal way of thinking about karma is found in common sayings:
1. what goes around, comes around.
2. As ye sew, so shall ye reap.

I endevor not to hate BushCo (very difficult), because someday, somehow, what they have infliced on others will come back to bite them. I almost feel pity for them, as their world is so small and miserable. They may have riches, but it will not buy them their heaven. They are so busy worrying about the their next life that they fail to see the beauty and joy that can be had in this one.

[DistressedAmerican]

10. Morning Punt!

[H2O Man]

11. Instant Karma

is one of my favorite songs. I believe it.

[rman]

12. The idea that things will work themselves out, without me doing anything?

Tempting, but not realistic imo.

[ObaMania]

13. Nope.

I don't believe in Karma.

If there is such a thing, please explain why good things happen to all evil people and bad things to good?

It don't add up, but just like religion, I guess you have to have something to believe in and keep you going.

JMO.

[stanwyck]

14. Yes, I do find solace

in knowing that actions do matter. Bad things do happen to good people. However, ultimately, good people prevail. And we will. We're in a dark time. America has had bleak periods before. But, we'll prevail. Joe McCarthy was vanquished. As was Nixon. As were the John Birchers who attempted to overrun school boards and local politics in the '60's. We have to remain strong. And vigilent. The fundamentalists and corrupt oil barons who have their strong tentacles on our country can be over-powered by progressives and liberals who want to return America to a land of promise and hope.
We'll prevail. Our ancestors did. And we will, too.

[jonnyblitz]

15. no. nt

[Solly Mack]

16. Not a bit

[youthere]

17. None whatsoever...

but thanks for trying anyway-appreciate it.:hi:

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

18. Yes, it does.

I'm not Buddhist, but I do believe in Karma or "what goes around, comes around." I've been around long enough to see it happen to some nasty people and good people. It doesn't work on a tight timeframe, though. So it's not like if you see a nasty person win the lottery, that this is evidence that karma isn't working.

How could this play out w/r/t those who got us into this war? It may not work out to much more than a guilty conscience. Some people find that difficult to accept, but that's just how it works out sometimes.

Take, for example, Jesse Helms, who was horribly anti-gay and frustrated attempts to address the AIDS crisis in its emerging days. Later in life and his senatorship, he spoke out about AIDS and how important it is to address the challenge it presents to societies. I'm not going to make him out to be some kind of hero, but the lesson is there: he was probably torn up inside about his ways during the Reagan administration and the cognitive dissonance was too much and he changed. That's also karma. Or look at some of the robber barons or their families who gave and give mountains of money to charity, way beyond the biblical 10% tithe. That's evidence of karma at work.

[marions ghost]

26. I don't believe they have a guilty conscience

This personality type does not operate that way, and they certainly don't believe in karma, even in it's common-sense interpretation such as 'what goes around...' People who cross that line --from grasping small-mindedness and narcissism into spectacular acts of greed and predation --tend to have very few epiphanies at a later date. Usually they are totally surprised if they are accused of wrongdoing, because everything has been rationalized away long ago.

So even when such pathological abusers are punished, it's still "poor little me." They often go to their graves in a shell-shocked state, not ever admitting that they screwed up. I believe we are dealing with people in this cabal who do not have normal emotions. Their happiness and self-worth come primarily from their craving for conquest, which they need on a regular basis. Because we trust too much that our system is safe from hijacking by this kind of thieves, we have inadvertently paved the way for them. The system needs to be made much more robust against abuse of power. But notions of fairness carry no weight when even the justice system supports their practices. The sentencing of Bernard Ebbers is a step in the right direction, for example. We need to ENFORCE the laws of karma more often!

I don't believe for a minute that Jesse Helms came around to addressing the AIDS problem because he feels guilty about what he did to Gays. That is just too far out of character. I think that Helms got on board when he saw that AIDS could affect regular white heterosexuals. He also most likely understands that prevention might be cheaper than treating large numbers of victims.

The perpetrators of this immoral war will always think that they were justified, no matter what happens. As for people who give away mountains of money to charity, that might make them feel better...but it does not change the fact that they are directing resources where THEY want to direct it, not necessarily where some of it should have gone in the first place. If they made their money illegally, I say give it back to who you stole it FROM, not to your pet charities or political organizations. That would be a real epiphany.

We should not hold our collective breath waiting for karma to
address these problems. Just as with AIDS, prevention is the better way to go in stopping the more twisted humans among us from running our country and affecting our lives. We need to be hardliners for the "good" side--for real morality. We will have to actively defend our views. Trusting that things will work out is too passive in the face of this kind of assault on everything we hold sacred.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

29. Good points. I don't agree entirely, but I do mostly.

:hi:

[marions ghost]

48. thanx ladieuxieme

... :) I agree with your basic tone of acceptance that we will not always see immediate justice in every case--that is realistic IMO. And I think we both would agree that there is a kind of morality that rises above questions of legality anyway. The main point that I'm making is that there are some pathologies that are so entrenched that it is not realistic to think that significant changes will occur from a truly destructive person's "waking up." That kind of deep de-programming would leave the individual shattered. Unfortunately I think we have a nest of these hardcore types at the top of our government now and we Dems have been far too accomodating to them. That's my fear. That WE don't wake up soon enough. I really don't care if they wake up or not. They are very far down the bad road.

[peacebuzzard]

It doesn't give me solace, but I believe in the kinetic energy

of the essence.

[peacebuzzard]

24. It doesn't give me solace, but I believe in the kinetic energy

of the essence.

[LWolf]

30. No, but

I know they will get back what they've put out in spades. It helps me manage my own anger with them. There is no solace in knowing that their cycle of destruction will finally come back to them; that's just more distruction. There is a little solace in knowing that their cycle WILL end. The real solace will be in seeing a genuine rebuilding of what is good about our nation; positive action. Whenever that may happen.

[marions ghost]

39. agreed

the concept of Karma or cosmic retribution is useful in anger management. Gives a better ability to stay cool and use the criminal misdeeds of others to push for longterm changes. Trusting that villains never really win in the end allows for a letting go of the focus on individuals and more energy towards analyzing the damage they do to communities. As we saw with Nixon, if you sit back smug with the assurance that 'justice has been done'--you do not see the subtle forces rearranging themselves to produce an even bigger affront to democracy. Not to say that it wouldn't feel good to see some frog marches, but the main gratification is that the system would be felt to be "working" --in that these people can be STOPPED.
We can't expect them to feel what we feel. If they did, they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

[liberalitch]

32. There are a "breed" of buddhists who believe that...

No one person can enter nirvana..... we have to all go as a group.
(Bodhisatva... i think)
In that case Karma can be a very very frightening thing.... because what one does effects us all.... the further down in the "circles of karmatic grace" that the activities of the bushies put us is horrifying..... none of us will ever get to live with Brahma in heaven.

I, on the other hand, am a Zen Buddhist. Karma is a personal thing. BUT it is responsibility of each of us to make the exhibition of goodness possible for everyone by making the world a better place.
In other words, Bush can't keep me from going to nirvana.... but he certainly can make it harder for me.... or anyone else to make the right decisions that bring our cycle of death and rebirth to a close.
I'm going to be really pissed if I have to keep coming back here because of him.

[CBHagman]

34. Mostly I read the Psalms.

I recommend that to all progressive types who read the Judeo-Christian Scriptures. Read the Psalms, as they reflect the experiences we are having right now. For example, one Psalmist (I think it's in Psalm 56) laments that his words are being twisted and that his enemies are pursuing him. There are also quite a few passages on the vanity of riches and the fact that people who appear to be successful are in fact living an illusion.

I do think a lot about karma, but mostly in terms of my own behavior.

And as Viktor Frankl observed, we do have choices on how we approach our lot in life, no matter how grim things get.

On edit: I admit to praying that God will punish George W. Bush and that we'll all live to see it. Then I stop myself and ask God merely to reveal all the bad deeds that Bush has done, so that no doubt is left in anyone's mind. In my faith we are taught that all will eventually be revealed, a thought which makes some of us tremble when looking at our lives.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

35. This is one of my (new) favoriates of your graphics DA!

:yourock:

[sweetheart]

36. Karma on the wheel of life

The buddha in the upper left is sending a message. He's pointing off
the wheel of karma, life and death. The way is off the wheel.

As much as there are hell worlds in the wheel of life and death, to
represent the wheel as such is sort of an abuse of the symbol, and i
frankly wish you had not chosen to use a tibetan religious diagram for
this political message.

It trivializes something that is actually a sacred wisdom in buddhism.

http://www.iol.ie/~taeger/thkas/wgr.html

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/wheel_of_life.htm

[DistressedAmerican]

38. Sorry It Offends You That I Would Take Comfort In A Buddhist Belief...

But, for the record, there is nothing trivial about this message.

It is about life and death itself.

Besides, I think that the belief system can take it. The Buddha would not take offense. If he did he would not be the Buddha.

This too is transient and illusionary...

[sweetheart]

47. Offends is not the concern

It parades something that people don't readily understand and
popularizes a trivial form.

It draws buddhism in to a partisan image, when it is something
more universal, accepting both republicans and democrats in to the
buddha's refuge.

I frankly don't care, but i don't care for it myself. I have a
beautiful wheel of life painting i got years ago in Nepal here on
my wall. Its kinda like an icon of the virgin mary perhaps would
be seen in othodox christianity. In a buddhist culture, artists
would liklely use another symbol to make that point, out of
deference to yama and the wheel of life.

Years ago, people abused the symbol of swaztika to represent their
partisan politics, and the partisan use made part of hinduism
distasteful in western culture, more because of the abuse of
a symbol.

In any case, it is a witty picture artfully done.

[marions ghost]

41. just as the American flag is only a symbol...

and in fact has all sorts of visual interpretations here on DU...
the borrowing of a Buddhist diagram to illustrate a point is not offensive. This particular 'wheel of fortune' is in the spirit of the
originals. I'm sure a Tibetan monk would laugh whole-heartedly at this western interpretation of cosmic "demons." It does not trivialize a sacred wisdom, it underscores it.

I do agree with you that the Way is off the wheel. But first you have to acknowledge the wheel.

[Felix Mala]

37. Bush is luckiest guy I've ever heard of... As far as I can tell

he's never had to answer for any of his many screwups in life. He's actually admired for some of them, like his $6 million reward for foisting a stadium and new taxes on the people of Houston.

[marions ghost]

42. lucky...???

to have the hatred of vast numbers of people directed at you? To be so emotionally dead that you don't even feel that raw hatred, or so twisted that you take pleasure in it, as many of the tyrants of history have?

The latest Resident will leave a legacy that will assure his place
among the evil greats. He has insulted the office of the US Presidency and proven that any white collar criminal can steal it, with enough help. He has far outdone Tricky Dick. The way he's going, his wax dummy will be in the Hall of Infamy right beside Saddam. If he and his minions are admired, then that's the problem area. Why do so many people admire those who grab everything and grind others into the mud to do it? This is how the problem becomes pervasive. I say believing Chimpy is 'lucky' is the kind of skewed perspective that leads to following in his footsteps. And all too many people fall into the trap of 'ends justify the means,' so of course they admire his tactics and bogus accomplishments because that's their modus operandi also.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

40. Sometimes yes, sometimes no....

After four years of hell, I have been trying to view Bush & Co. as great teachers. Yes, you heard me right.

I heard the Dalai Lama talk about how he viewed the Chinese invasion of Tibet as his greatest lesson that offered the potential for his maximum spiritual growth.

At first I was kind of floored when I heard that, but I quickly understood it.

And, when I look back on the past four years, I have Bush & Co. to thank for a lot of what has happened in my life and for who I have become.

But that doesn't stop me from calling upon the Karma Gods at least fourteen times a day to "take care of business". :)

[Strawman]

43. No

I find myself losing faith in party politics and in the political culture.

[ComerPerro]

44. Karma is bullshit

Or, at the very least, its very, very slow. When will Bush's catch up to him?


Seriously, though. The Bush presidency has completely destroyed any notion of karma that I ever had.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. It is the only think that has kept me

from losing my mind. I would have given up 4 years ago and found another hobby if not for Karma.

I'm just tired of waitng for the inevitable paybacks.

[KharmaTrain]

46. Around Here...Only Mrs. Kharma

:rofl:

[DistressedAmerican]

50. Karma Kicker!

[DistressedAmerican]

51. ...