I am sick to death of hearing about Congresswoman Schmidt's looks

[dsc]

Since I am not into women in that regard I probably am not the best judge of whether her looks are great or not. But they don't matter. She could be the ugliest woman to ever walk on two legs and it shouldn't matter. She could be the second coming of Sharon Stone and it shouldn't matter. Would we do this with a male candidate? Frankly I think we wouldn't.

Ms. Schmidt deserves to be returned to private life for being a corrupt liar, hypocrite, and right wing ideologue. Her looks, or lack thereof, have nothing to do with it. Even if you don't think she deserves better, the women who read your posts do.

[Tesla]

1. Evil is evil, dude

I have also put down Roves, Rumsfeld's, and Cheney's looks. She just happens to have a shoe that fits!!! Like "beatwithanuglystick" Harris (R.Fl.)

[bryant69]

2. So the ends justify the means?

Interesting.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[dsc]

5. I would be willing to bet that for every one such comment

about the men you list I could find at least a dozen about women. You may be equal opportunity, I am not going to search to find out, but you are close to unique in that regard if you are.

[femrap]

61. A man who 'gets it'.....

Thanks for the effort...but heteros feel it is their god-given right to make fun of women's looks....after all that is all we're good for.....right, boys? As the old saying goes..."I'd rather be pretty than smart. Cuz boys see better than they think."

It's difficult to get most of the heteros to raise their consciousness on how nasty our culture is toward women and their physical attributes. When a male goes after a woman's looks, I try to turn the tables, and discuss the male physical attribute of penis length. Only fair, right?

[tk2kewl]

31. I agree, hateful people are physically ugly as well as all-around ugly

I have no problem with it.

[greekspeak]

3. We are equal opprotunity offenders here

We talk about Shrub's blinkity blink and monkey-like looks, we talk about how Rove looks like a beached whale. We talk about Cheney's snarl, and the evil Anti-grandpa face of Rumsfeld. And I am sorry, but in that picture Schmidt looks for all the world like a storybook witch.

[dsc]

6. Not even close

Sorry, but there is no way in Hell DU is equal opportunity on this. I would be willing to bet that such comments about women outnumber by a factor of at least 12 such comments about men, who it should be noted, are far and away more numerous in public political positions.

[greekspeak]

16. I have not counted the number of pokes about physical features

That would be silly. I know that people call Anne Coulter "the man." I know that they go on about Kathryn Harris and her make-up issues. And they are going on right now about this harpie. But I do not think your factor of 12 can be substantiated. Any jab against a person's appearence is a non-sequiter. Maybe we should all stop making personal attacks and stick to the facts? Never happen.

[Eloriel]

68. See, even calling her a wtich, which you did in your previous post,

is sexist, as is THIS post.

People call Anne Coulter "the man" are being sexist -- and homophobic as well. She is, or represents herself, to be female. Casting aspersions on that and making fun of her on the basis of her gender is sexist.

Calling Schmidt a "harpie" is sexist.

And it's not really JUST about her physical appearance -- it's about the fact that women are going to be targeted about their appearance and looks far more than men are or will ever be (and yes, that's borne out at DU -- I've never seen any threads complaining about Bush's suits, but I sure see them complaining about Laura's), and reducing them to their physical appearance OR concentrating on that to the exclusion of more important things is sexist.

The attacks on Schmidt based on her gender or on gender stereotypes (witch, harpie, bitch, and many others) or standard stereotypes targeted more at women than men (wardrobe, physical appearance) have far outweighed those based on her ideology or performance or other factors. It's all quite sexist.

[greekspeak]

77. How is calling a Anne Coulter the "man" homophobic?

It has nothing to do with her sexual orientation. It has to do with her failing to fit socially prescribed gender roles. That is not homophobia. This is a gender issue. Please don't preach to this homo about homophobia. I know what it looks like, and that is not homophobia. It is sexism.

And I also suppose that you are going to sit there with a straight face and tell me you have never called a man a "dick" or a "cocksucker."

[Eloriel]

112. I actually don't use that language in public

and VERY rarely with even my husband and closest of friends. I have one friend who DOES use that language, and I find it offensive as all get out when she does. I think it's crude and unnecessary. I also think it demeans ME to use it, just as it demeans you to use it even in asking me the question IMO.

HOWEVER, neither of those words are sexist, are they? It could be argued that one of them is homophobic, but since I can't recall EVER using it in my entire life, you can hardly accuse me of even inadvertent homophobia, can you?

[Splatter Phoenix]

94. She IS a harpy.

I applaud that description, as it is 100% dead on accurate.

"In this form they were agents of punishment who abducted people and tortured them on their way to Tartarus. They were vicious, cruel and violent."

"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck." Simple as that.

[hobbit709]

13. My wife says that all Schmidt needs

is a pointy hat and green makeup to be in the Wizard of Oz

[Cha]

19. And she's more Evil than

anything the Brothers' Grimm could have come up with.x(

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

4. thank you dsc n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

7. Evil has a way of shinning through on someone's face.

Look at Sensenbrenner, Wolfowitz, Frist etc. etc. Paint little nazi outfits on them and you would swear you were looking at photos from 1939.

It's no accident that this woman looks like Frau Blucher(sp) or the wicked witch. Nature has it's ways.

[Lorien]

111. It's the hatred radiating from her eyes that people respond to

put a photo of her and Ann Coulter side by side; same expression.

[devilgrrl]

8. Frau Bleucher!!!

Tough beans! That woman is evil! Right up there with Katherine Harris, Ann Coulter, and every other Bush Fembot.

Ladies Against Women

[Junkdrawer]

18. Shouldn't horses neigh when that name is spoken?

"He was my...boyfriend"

[ronnykmarshall]

54. How do you spell a horse neigh?

I love Cloris Leachman.

[Junkdrawer]

64. This author used 'neigh'...

[Cha]

21. Don't forget..

conjob rice..maybe the most Evil of all the current crop of gargoyles.

[murielm99]

9. As a woman who reads posts here, I disagree.

I'm sure you have seen that unflattering picture of Michelle Malkin posted here. The picture makes her look like a hate-filled toad. It shows her true nature.

The pictures of Schmidt show her nature, too. She always seems to be caught scowling, or with her mouth open. She has little dignity. Most corrupt, lying, hypocritical right wing ideologues have little dignity, and it shows in their appearances.

Eleanor Roosevelt wasn't beautiful. Anyone who called her homely was telling the truth. But she was usually smiling, or displaying an intelligent expression while she went about her important work.

I have seen plenty of comments about the ugly old white men who happen to be repukes. We make fun of bush's* appearance all the time, and Cheney's, too. If we are going to be fair to both sexes, we would have to stop ridiculing the men, too. And I don't want to. It is fun.

[dsc]

10. I think search is still down

but I would be willing to bet that women are made fun of for their appearence vastly more often than men are here.

[Touchdown]

28. Then let's take the bet.

Since you brought it up, you find out how many comments about people's looks and break them down by gender.

You might also include that pic of a 25 year old Howard Dean in his bathing suit, displaying him as a piece of meat with a photoshop heart on him as well, since we're talking lack of political substance.

Like it or not, appearences matter in politics. There is no way we can change the perception that even though he's not allowed to drink, and he's a swaggering phony, some people think Georgy looks like he's be fun to have a beer with.:eyes:

It's not Jean's fault about her looks, but her disposition fits those facial expressions to a tee. Someone posted Cloris Leachman up there. Look at a couple of other pics...



That is the same woman as Frau Blucher up up there. Facial expressions, and personality dispositions make the difference, not body makeup. Here is another of her characters, Nurse Diesel, standing in the middle.



Same woman. Same face. Same body. What could possibly make the difference? :shrug:

[dsc]

30. You have heard of make up, have you not

I am sure that her acting helped immensly in the transformation but lets get real. Make up and lighting also helped a lot. The simple fact is that women are roasted for their looks way, way, way more often than men. And they are even complimented on it more. Though the Clark is a physical God crowd and the Dean was a hottie crowd did exist I think they were attracted to both candidates well before the physical stuff came up. The pictures of the young Dean didn't surface until he had been in the race for a long time.

[Touchdown]

32. I don't know that's a simple fact here on DU

...that is until you do your study.

[IntravenousDemilo]

99. Yes, we've heard of makeup.

Has the congresswoman?

[fudge stripe cookays]

50. Same woman, same face, same body.

But no fruit cup.

I totally agree with you here, btw. :hi:
FSC

[ronnykmarshall]

63. You get off it ....

I know you better than you know yourself. You LIVE for bondage!!

[fudge stripe cookays]

74. "This place is for...

DANGEROUSLY SICK PEOPLE!"



Now, gimme a cookie.
FSC

[ronnykmarshall]

79. What where some of the changes that Dr Ashley wanted to do?

The drapes.

The drapes?

Doctor Ashley wanted to change the drapes, in the psychotic game room.

That was the extent of his changes?

Oh yes. Doctor Ashley felt that COLOR has a lot to do with the well being of the emotionally disturrrrbed.

[fudge stripe cookays]

82. "If you love me baby,

tell me LOUD!!!!!"

Too bad no pix of Dick Van Patten with bleeding ears on google. Dammit!

FSC

[ronnykmarshall]

83. I love that part.

When he tells Nurse Diesel he won't tell and she says ..... "I know you won't. I knoooowwww you won't!" and they close up on her eyes and then turn into the headlights of his car.

Mel Brooks needs to release that on DVD.

[fudge stripe cookays]

84. He does, indeed.

Still my favorite Mel movie.

Sorry Blazing Saddles fans!
FSC

[Touchdown]

91. I like just before that. He stands in front of an arched window

and he's in the shadow of the panes.

..."I feel like I'm caught in a web!"

"Is that number one, or cocky doody?"

[fudge stripe cookays]

121. Or when the scene moves in for a close-up through the window....

and the window breaks?

:rofl:

"HERE'S YOUR PAPER!!!! HERE'S YOUR PAPER!!!"

[Touchdown]

129. "That boy gets NO TIP!"

[Touchdown]

89. Oh' god! those perfectly pleated boobs!

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

85. Having known and worked with Jean Schmidt

for the last few years, she IS Nurse Diesel, to a T. Its no exaggeration.

Thats why I don't feel bad about people posting her pic. Its not her physical attributes that draw attention - its the way her personality shows through.

[ronnykmarshall]

62. Nurse Diesel rocks!!

Now THIS Diesel makes me wanna release an egg!

[Touchdown]

67. You got eggs? We should talk about that instead.

Have you seen a Doctor?:evilgrin:

And yes, Vin is very slobber- and stiffy-worthy.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. If so, Bush must be very close to evening the score all by himself. (nt)

[Kingshakabobo]

12. She couldn't even sit up straight and look at Hackett

during a debate that was held by some local television station. She scrunched over to one side of her chair as if to get away from Hackett. I thought Hackett might of had some holy water in his pocket.

[Cha]

25. Compared to

MEAN jean..Hackett is The Holy Grail.

[Eloriel]

69. You're missing the point

Perhaps you haven't seen what has been problematic. Overwhelmingly, the attacks on Schmidt have been gender-based. That's wrong. Women are attacked for our looks when we don't "live up to" the standard. Older women, which she is, are especially vulnerable to being attacked on these sexist grounds.

I hate her. I saw her on Hardball I think it was and was sickened by her. But there is NO REASON to attack her on the basis of her gender (sex), her sexuality or, like every other women, her looks.

Yeah, DUers talk about others' looks as well -- but NOT like they've talked about Schmidt's or other women's looks (Laura Bush, Anne Coulter, others), and it's SEXIST, dammit.

I don't like havint to come to the defense of rightwing women. But ALL women are harmed and demeaned when we can be attacked on the basis of our looks, be held to higher or different standards than men for issues of dress, attacked for our sex or sexuality, etc. IOW: If DUers -- our progressive "brothers," the ones who are supposedly egalitarian and interested in women's equality -- if they can do it to her, they can do it to YOU, or your mother or sister, or someone else you may care about. They can reduce YOU to your physicality or your sexuality, demeaning and humiliating you and stripping you of your basic humanity.

And if that's okay with you, it's NOT okay with me -- not even for the most revile-worthy rightwing woman out there.

[fasttense]

11. Sometimes people's looks change once you know their opinions

and personality. I've known some ugly people who turned beautiful before my eyes when I heard them talk. Some otherwise beautiful people turned ugly when they opened their mouths. I find Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton to have turned ugly to me. Yet John Kerry and Nelson Mandela have turned beautiful.

[Cha]

26. Beautifully..

said.

[fasttense]

86. Thanks Zidzi, you made my day. n/t

[Mr_Spock]

14. I agree - that was petty. We should call her a Nazi instead

She does have a German name :rofl:

[Cha]

27. Bad..Mr_Spock!

:rofl:

[Eloriel]

70. Fine with me if you call her a Nazi, at least that's not SEXIST

Tho I hope there are people who would call you on your bigotry and xenophobia if you try to automatically link her "German name" with "Nazi."

I wish people wouldn't try to make light of this discussion. IT's not funny to some of us -- the ones who are accused of being "humorless."

But then, I admit it. I do NOT find sexism and misogyny funny. And i'm not offended, nor am I persuaded differently in any way, by being called "humorless," so have at it.

[Catholic Sensation]

15. don't you realize that looks are important in politics!

I mean one can't simply discuss the fact that her politics are too far right for her to be an effective legislator, or that she's simply going to be a parrot for Dennis Hastert and Tom DeLay in terms of voting while in the House. You have to care about what's irrelevant too! That's why despite being a bit too centrist on the abortion issue, supporting the drilling in ANWR, and too willing to support any judge Bush puts forward, I'm going to support the moderately attractive Mary Landrieu for President! :eyes:

Leave the childish attacks on looks for the republicans who can only get hard by mocking Hillary Clinton for being "homely" people. It's beneath us.

[Hamlette]

17. thanks

I remember people saying Hillary is/was ugly and/or fat. Pissed me off. We should try to not be as hypocritical as they are.

[UTUSN]

20. I'm Sick to Death of "Congresswoman SCHMIDT" n/t

[smbolisnch]

22. Great post, dsc.

:yourock:

[question everything]

23. Well said, and recommended

Was thinking the same thing. Was actually surprised to watch her in a "normal" view on CNN yesterday and to see her looking quite pleasant.

The WSJ's Taranto still refers to Kerry as the "haughty, French looking" etc. And it always boils my blood.

We won't like it when they try to refer to the appearance, ugliness of beauty of our candidates and neither should be. At least, not beyond one or two to vent.

[IntravenousDemilo]

102. Yeah, about the "French-looking" thing...

What exactly is "French-looking"?

[karynnj]

125. I think Taranto's confusing dignified with haughty

and possibly impeccably groomed with French. I think it's primarily in contrast to Bush that these factors even stand out. The truth is that Kerry's demeanor was appropriate and professional - it was the President who by making faces, finding it impossible to sit, stand, or move without looking strange who created the contrast. No one with Kerry's grin or smile could be haughty. Kerry does not have a movie star handsome face, but when he smiles, his entire face lightens up and his eyes smile too - at that point he looks great.

I think there is way too much attention spent on candidates' looks.

[Swamp Rat]

24. IT is not even a human.

Schmidt is an alien lizard. Whether or not IT is really female remains to be seen.

:D

[Cha]

29. OMG...now that's the

way it will be forever blazed on my mind.

[Eloriel]

71. You know, zidzi

I'm really disappointed in your responses in this thread so far. I'm so glad you're so fucking amused (giggle, giggle. Thanks ever so much for supporting and being complicit in all the misogyny that goes on here by not standing up to it.

:puke:

[Swamp Rat]

115. WHAT?!? ... Don't you like my pic Eloriel?

:D

[Eloriel]

117. I've got images turned off. I didn't even see your pic

until I replied to your WTF post.

[Swamp Rat]

118. My "WTF post?"

:D

Don't you like my pics???

I am an equal opportunity photo vandal! :)

[Sapphire Blue]

34. Beauty vs the Beast... It's not about looks...

Beauty vs Beast

[alarcojon]

35. I'm with you, dsc

Let's stick to the people's positions, credentials, and how they carry themselves. Let the RW bloviators look like the petty, hateful fools they are by attacking women's looks.

I actually disagree with your 12 to 1 ratio on this website, though. Men's looks do get ridiculed a lot here. But my issue is that making fun of Bush's looks (Smirky McChimp, etc.) plays a different societal role than making fun of Ann Coulter's (Ann the man, etc.). This is simply because women are judged on their looks FAR more than men are, and this has repercussions for their lives far beyond what it does for men's.

[ComerPerro]

36. She's not worthy of respect, IMO

[UncleSepp]

43. Respect and decency are not about the other person

Showing courtesy and decency toward another person is about oneself.

In class-based societies, etiquette often holds that people below one's station are to be treated differently than people above one's station. Etiquette in an egalitarian society demands that all people are to be treated with the same respect regardless of station, and in fact, regardless of one's private opinion of the other person or of his or her behavior. It is possible, and in my opinion laudable, to disagree vehemently and even publicly with another person's ideas, convictions, or beliefs without ever being rude.

Descending into rudeness and schoolyard insults degrades not the target of the insult, but the one who hurls the insult.

Furthermore, if one believes that a woman or man should not be judged on beauty in face or body, but on the beauty of his or her character, one would not then insult an opponent's looks any more than one would insult the looks of an ally. When you insult any woman's looks with the intent of reducing respect for her, you support the idea that a woman's respect is contingent upon her looks. This goes for any human being, but women tend to be more aware of being judged on their physical beauty.

[Eloriel]

119. It's perfectly okay with me if you don't respect her, what's NOT okay

with me is if you insist on DISrespecting her or expressing your disrespect on the basis of her sex, sexuality or on stereotpyical gender-based factors for which women are stereotypically criticized (clothes, overall appearance, age, being too "shrill" or aggressive, etc.)

Get it?

Disrespect her all you want -- just do it based on her individuality, not her membership in the female sex. If you insist on DISrespecting her based on sex/gender-based factors, you're engaging in sexism and there's not only no reason for that, it's harmful and offensive and objectionable and against DU rules and so forth and so on.

[mopinko]

37. a great dem and good candidate for governor of ill. lost

a few years ago. dawn clark netsch was the best candidate for governor of illinois in my lifetime. she was a fabulous state rep who busted her ass trying to make sure school children were a priority, and the people were well served. she lost narrowly. exit polling in the very communities where her commitment was needed the most said people voted against her because they thought she was ugly.
i agree we should be setting the standard that this shit does not fly.

[buff2]

38. You can take the most beautiful woman or the most handsome man......

and admire their beauty,but if they are ugly on the inside and are mean,evil,conniving and back stabbing,it destroys those good looks in an instant.Have you ever noticed how repukes always have that pissed off angry look all the time? It's like they carry a chip on their shoulder 24/7. Have you read the posts over at FReeptard land? My God....it's enough to make you puke buckets. The uglyness on the inside is far worse than the outside,but sometimes those people and their hate filled hearts and souls makes them ugly on the outside as well. :hi:

[Eloriel]

73. Then talk about the ugliness on the inside exclusively

You have no right to reduce her -- ANY woman, even rightwing woman -- to her appearance. It's dehumanizing.

So don't try to hide behind that "beauty (or lack of it) on the inside" as some kind of viable excuse for sexist remarks about her appearance (t's NOT), or make the "inside/outside" beauty synonymous or equivalent (it's not).

[fasttense]

88. Well put buff2. n/t

[IntravenousDemilo]

107. Ms Schmidt may have a portrait of herself in the attic that keeps getting

ever more beautiful with each passing day. And it was probably painted by the same artist Dick Cheney sat for.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

39. BRAVO dsc!!!!

[militaryWife]

40. At the very least,

she is a walking advertisement for sunscreen.

me-putting on SPF 5000

And living proof that in fact, you face can "freeze that way" as my mom always told me.

[mzmolly]

41. Thank you DSC. I was disgusted at the looksist discussion about Maria

Shriver as well. Schmidt did not enter a beauty contest, she entered a political one.

[noamnety]

42. Thanks, dsc

I am convinced that the people mocking Schmidt for her looks give no thought whatsoever on the impact of those remarks on other women considering running for office.

The very clear message is that if you don't meet a certain beauty standard, as a woman, you shouldn't consider running for office. As another poster so eloquently put it, if you look a certain way, you're better suited to "slopping hogs."

Nice message to send.

[Splatter Phoenix]

48. That's not it at all...

That haggy, evil woman is purely that: Evil. Commenting on the fact that her looks match is (at least for me) a by-product of despising her twisted, corrupt ideas of putting ten commandments in MY schools.

[noamnety]

52. You're expressing your opinion

which I can't change, and you're certainly entitled to it.

I am explaining what the EFFECT of expressing that opinion is. There is always an effect.

[Splatter Phoenix]

53. Ehh..

If you're that susceptable to other people commenting on an ugly old dogfaced woman, maybe you should commit yourself somewhere so you're not a harm to others.

EDIT: Not -you-, I'm saying people in general, sorry.

[noamnety]

55. It's not just me, and it's not just one person expressing these attitudes

It's the viewpoint as a whole that if somebody is not photogenic, they are defective and need "corrective" surgery, particularly if they are going to be in the public eye. It's us doing it to Schmidt, it's them doing it to Teresa, it's us doing it to Bush's wife, it's them doing it to Senator Clinton ... it's pervasive, and harmful, and never ending.

To be clear, I have no intentions on running for office - it's not an issue of me PERSONALLY being offended. It's a larger issue than that. People need to consider whether they want to be part of the problem. When you call someone "old" for example, as an insult, you are part of the problem. You are personally adding to the message that older women in this society have little value. When you call someone "dogfaced" what do you expect another woman with similar bone structure to feel?

[Splatter Phoenix]

57. Granted...

The old bit was maybe too much, but seriously, have you LOOKED at her? she honestly DOES wear her evil on the outside.

[noamnety]

59. I've seen photos of her

and I don't think her looks have anything to do with her lack of integrity one way or another.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UncleSepp]

44. Thank you.

Even if you don't think she deserves better, the women who read your posts do.

Perfectly put. Thanks again! It feels good to know that women on DU have an ally like you, who understands that an insult to one is an insult to all.

[Kraklen]

45. Bolton.

How many threads have been referring to his hideous mustache?

Plenty.

[Eloriel]

78. Oh, that makes it all okay, doesn't it?

Nevermind that women are still underpaid by something like 25 cents on the dollar, nevermind that women are hunted down and killed by the men who SAY they love them and society lets this go on; nevermind that increasingly the homeless are single women with children; nevermind that women are raped and sexually assualted every single day in this country; never mind that we're on the verge of losing our right to control our own bodies; nevermind that anorexia and bulimia are also killing our young women --

Yeah, someone talked about Bolton's mustache, so it's OKAY to continue being sexist, to continue dehumanizing women by reducing them to their parts and pieces and demand that they live up to narrow societal standards for looks and dress -- standards that do NOT include older women. It's OKAY to call women you don't like hag and witch and bitch and worse, because after all, you're a MAN and it's your RIGHT to do so, isn't it? Someone on some DU thread commented about John Bolton's mustache, so that makes it OKAY.

And besides, Schmidt is a rightwing woman, and we dont' LIKE rightwing women. And she's "ugly on the inside" too -- but it's way too much trouble to attack her on her ideology or her behavior or her "ugliness on the inside," so let's just resort to sexism and misogyny and attack her on her LOOKS.

:puke:

[Kraklen]

96. Yes.

Schmidt's a perfectly valid target to be attacking. The fact that she looks like the Wicked Witch of the West on crystal meth is all the better.

Pay inequality and rape are irrelevant to this discussion.

[Eloriel]

120. Schmidt is a valid target to attack, but NOT via sexist attacks

There's no reason for it. If you can't attack her for her ideas or behavior or lack of ethics, etc., then perhaps you don't really have a good reason to attack her. It's always so easy to just resort to the sexism, isn't it? Attacking her looks is sexist.

Pay inequality and rape are irrelevant to this discussion.

On the contrary. They are VERY relevant. Sexism is sexism and it all works together and contributes to all the rest of it, as I just got finished explaining in another post.

That YOU don't see -- or won't acknowledge the connection -- doesn't mean it's not there. Were you better educated on issues of oppression and discrimination, you wouldn't even dream of making such a statement.

[Splatter Phoenix]

100. I'm a woman.

She's a hideous crone hag witchbitch fucketyfuck. If it hurts you for me to call her that....you're kinda reducing womanhood to a collective Borg entity.

"Your mechanical addons are creepy."
"We are offended. Prepare to be assimilated."

[Eloriel]

110. Unfortunately, women can be ignorant of the impact & sexist too

And, my dear, it hurts YOU -- and EVERY other woman on the planet -- for you to engage in sexist and misogynist talk against other womenm, even or perhaps especially those you hate.

Here's why it matters. When you can call a whole class of people ugly names with impunity -- with NO ONE objecting or making you stop -- you give permission to an entire society to demean those people in other ways. You give permission to an entire society to deny them economic opportunities in the form of jobs and higher positions in corporations and even equal pay. You give permission to an entire society to demean and dehumanize them via visual images that are humiliating and objectifying. You give permission to an entire society to treat them brutally --

We saw this with Nazi Germany, which targeted Jews (along with homosexuals and others) as subhuman. They did this with demeaning language, and via cartoons -- and cartoons are ALWAYS funny and amusing, aren't they? -- which depicted them in humiliating ways, with exaggerated features.

We saw this in ALL of our wars where we had to dehumanize our "enemy" so that our military personnel could feel better about killing them: japs and krautheads, gooks and ragheads.

We saw this with our own minority populations which we decimated: Native American "savages" and "heathens" and "redskins" and African American "n-words" and so forth.

We also see this with our gay population. With gays and lesbians, we have the ability to track what happens when the anti-gay rhetoric escalates. It ALWAYS ends up fostering (giving PERMISSION for) greater violence against gays and lesbians:

cryingshame Fri Jun-24-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1579758&mesg_id=1579772
6. Since Jr. Decided To Use Gay Marriage As A Wedge, Violent Attacks
on gays has risen by 25%. At least that's what the report on PBS said last night.


I'm sure there are better sources for this data -- and I've heard stats periodically over the years, but that's the one I happen to have handy.

WHY ON EARTH would you think it's any different for women? WHY DO YOU THINK that being "allowed" to call women names wouldn't result in more perceived "permission" to discriminate against them in jobs, and to be violent against them? Hint: It doesn't.

Here's a link of stats from the American Bar Association on Domestic Violence. Just what do you imagine that mate is calling her when he hits her? Honey? Sweetheart?

This site says that in the U.S. every 2 mintues some woman is raped. http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm This one says that a rape is reported every 5 minutes (and only 40% of rapes are even reported): http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html Do you somehow imagine that these women are NOT being called the kinds of names you feel so free to call Schmidt while they're raping women?

Can you REALLY think to yourself that these names aren't harmful to women, including yourself (whether you realize it or not, think about it or not, are strong and honest enough to face the truth about it or not)?

YOUR WORDS DO HURT ME -- but they also hurt you. And your mother, sister(s), daughter(s) if/when you have them. At the very least, those words help U.S. employers pay you less. At the very least, those words help create a climate where it's okay to start talking about taking reproductive rights -- including birth control! -- away from women. Where it's okay for Rick Santorum to write a book in which he suggests women should stay home and care for the children.

And no, I'm not overstating the case AT ALL.

[dsc]

93. I did a search

and you have an odd definition of plenty. One. That is how many a search using Bolton, restricting to title, produced going back a bit over a month.

[Kraklen]

95. I've seen a number of threads.

there's some kind of nickname that's been developed, "evil mustache man" or some such thing.

I'm not going to search for it, but if you want to play around with search criteria you're perfectly welcome to.

[Fleshdancer]

46. fair enough, but is it wrong for me to say that Paul Hackett is HOT?

Not that it matters, but I do think he's a cutie. And for what it's worth, I waited until after the election to comment on it. :D

[Splatter Phoenix]

49. Nope.

He was sizzlin'. I'm dumbstruck and horrified that he lost, even if it was by a hair.

[Splatter Phoenix]

47. But...

She's a crotchety old bag-face, so it seems to kind of...INTENSIFY the seepy pus-like evil she carries within her, like toffee within a Rolo. A wicked, Republican Rolo.

[noamnety]

56. What if I am an "old bag-face"? (nt)

[Splatter Phoenix]

58. Beauty...

Is in the eye of the beholder.

[Robbie Michaels]

65. Evil Is To The Bone

But in some people's cases, it also rises to the surface.

[LeftyMom]

66. We do it to men too

Just do a search for "Bolton, mustache."

As a woman I'm certainly not offended when somebody points out that Schmidt's ugly and looks older than she is or that Laura Bush is frumpy. Hell, I have my frumpy moments too and I still laugh at her.

It's just a way to blow of steam and lighten things up. We can't focus on the fuckedupitude of the country 100% of the time.

[Lilith Velkor]

72. Yup

Cheney and Rove are two of the ugliest mfs on the planet and I sometimes note their resemblances to Emperor Palpatine and Jabba the Hutt, and I'm sorry, but that Schmidt character literally looks like fkn Gollum!

"fuckedupitude" :spray: Good one. :thumbsup:

[LeftyMom]

75. Palpatine! I forgot Pope Ratzi! We've made fun of him too.

Oh and Karl Rove, we mock his pasty, gelationous form and Scotty the press secratary is known as "Puffy McMoonface."

We mock everybody. It's not sexist. It's probably immature, but who cares, really.

[Buns_of_Fire]

81. It makes you think, though: What if Schmidt were a Democrat?

Or, for, that matter, what if Helen Thomas turned into a female Rush Limbaugh?

Maybe it's just a piling-on effect: "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're ugly, too!" (And your mother dresses you funny.)

Of course, it helps that Vice President PermaSneer and U.N. Ambassador-Appointee Mr. Captain Kangaroo Moustache Crazy Person actually DO cause birds to fall from the sky.

[Eloriel]

116. Okay, here's the deal. It's doesn't work that way

Is it okay to make fun of the way African Americans look -- their black skin, wide noses, large lips -- if we also make fun of Bolton's mustache??

Is it okay to make fun of Jewish noses if we also make fun of Bolton's mustache or George Bush's shifty eyes?

There IS and can BE NO EQUIVALENCY here -- you are trying to say gee if we do it to members of the Dominant Culture (whites and esp. white males), it's OKAY to do it to others. IT'S NOT. Definitely, absolutely NOT. WHY?

Because minority groups are oppressed -- they've been denied jobs and other economic opportunities, and they've had violence perpetuated against them. This is true for women, true for every ethnic group you can name, true for ANY minority group.

You can say the worst things you can imagine about any individaul white male or the entire lot of them, and it will NOT change their status as members of the Dominant Culture, as privileged people as compared to all others NOT of that group.

But talking bad about members of oppressed minorities DOES hurt them -- DOES result in more discrimination, more oppression, less opportunities and often, violence against them.

It's not safe, it's not morally neutral, it's not without negative repurcussions in the culture, it's not okay. Further, this is a so-called progressive discussion board. If there's ANYWHERE ON EARTH where such discussions shouldn't devolve into sexism, racism, homophobia, etc., it ought to be here. Unfortunately, there are too many times when DU is anything but that.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

92. funny your post doesn't mention even one male pol

amazing isn't it.

[noamnety]

97. "skank"?

(Disclaimer - I LOVE Teresa, this is just to make a point)

Do you all really think this is acceptable political discourse? If you saw a freeper post something like this, what would you think of the poster?

Teresa Heinz Kerry is a harpie - all she needs is a pointy hat and green makeup to be in the Wizard of Oz. That horsefaced skank just LOOKS like a Nazi, but a French one. She's a hateful toad, and you can see the evil pus seeping out of her. If any of you have a problem with me saying that about that ugly-assed bitch, you should be committed - you obviously have your own problems.

That's all based on comments in this thread, and to me it looks ugly. It's not a level of "lighthearted conversation" I would ever aspire to.

I have no interest in Bolton's mustache.

[Splatter Phoenix]

101. Leave my rolos out of this.

Misquoting is what freepers do, and comparing her to a Rolo deliberately softened what I said.

[globalvillage]

103. Teresa is fabulous.

I get your point, but she's still beautiful. It may be an opinion, but it's mine, and I'm entitled. And as long as it's not against the rules, I can post it.

[Hubert Flottz]

87. George W Bush is the ugliest gawd damned...

Cheerleader, I ever saw, besides that ignorant looking Trent Lott!

[globalvillage]

98. Dem Babes

HOT

HOTTER

HOTTEST


JMHO. There's an inner light.

[sintax]

104. Jean Bush

is as gnarly as Dick Schmidt is as pretty as Hillary Kerry is as beautiful as Teresa Clinton is as....

The politics of the cult of personality.

Meanwhile the temperatures reach new record highs of 131 degrees in downtown everywhere.

Nero wasn't the only one fiddling.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Splatter Phoenix]

108. O.o

That was amazingly articulate, and a beautiful mental image. Quack quack. :D

[neuvocat]

106. I completely agree with you

until I see how wretched she looks and then realize that her ugliness was so horrible that it worked its way from the inside out.

[mixedview]

109. I agree - it is harder for women re being judged looks-wise, BUT

it is harder for men being judged re "power" qualities, such as height or penis size.

Whenever someone disagrees with a man - the inevitable "he must have a little dick" comes out. It ALWAYS comes down to the that. And heaven forbid he's shorter or thinner (i.e more effeminate) -- then he's a "little dicked, cowardly WUSS".

ALL of this is gender hatred coming from both directions - misandry and misogyny are very intertwined. You can't attempt to get rid of one without attempting to get rid of the other.

[Eloriel]

124. Oh, please

penis-size judging is men doing it to themselves (and other men, of course). Most women don't give a damn (tho I will say, size DOES matter, so there!). And to the extent women EVER talk about it, it's always a bit of an afterthought, picking up on MEN'S insecurities -- not something they'd typically think of themselves to diss men with.

It's similar to if you, as a man, would chide women for their concern about their manicures or even haircuts or something.

Height -- sorry, but Napoleon complex isn't something women dreamed up, either.


ALL of this is gender hatred coming from both directions - misandry and misogyny are very intertwined.

I disagree with that entirely, but who, exactly, do you think STARTED the gender war?

What you interpret as misandry is primarily women standing up to and confronting male sexist pigs. Could also be a lot of ANGER at some men, or even all men (except those who exclude themselves by virtue of their ALLIANCE with women and feminism) who benefit from our oppression. Just could be...worth thinking about, eh? A necessary corollary: stop the misogyny, and what YOU perceive as misandry will abate dramatically. Bank on it.

[mixedview]

126. Sorry, it's not similar to "manicures and haircuts"

because those are things that can be changed.

And I never said one gender was responsible for it - both are.

It's easy for women to marginalize the pain men feel, just as it's easy for men to marginalize the pain women feel. Unless you are a man -especially one who was picked on for any of these things- you won't understand the pain. Judging a man according to his penis size, height or career - which both men and women do - is emasculating and degrading. It is bullying. It is an attempt to beat down a man and rape him of his manhood and personhood. It is trying to say he is more like a female and NOT like a man. In this regard, it is both misogynist (even when women do it) and misandrist (hatred of men who don't fit the macho man/bully boy stereotype).

Only when we can both understand each other as men, women and human beings, will these problems start to be resolved.

But as long as both sides want to deny the pain of the other - nothing will be resolved.

[Halliburton]

113. she looks like a witch

and she acts like a witch. Stephanie Herseth she aint!

[Tracyjo]

123. Well actually

she may not necessarily look like a witch. I know they're some beautiful witches out there, but, man did you see that thing on Hardball? If they were recasting the wicked witch of the west for The Wizard of Oz, she'd be IT!!I'm a woman and I have three older brothers who always told me I'd been beaten by an ugly stick, but jeez. She looks so harsh. Like someone who loves to hate. I'm damn GLAD she's not a democrat. If she were, I'm sure she'd let her hair down.

[Gabi Hayes]

122. sure thing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4227304

[LittleClarkie]

127. Don't forget about Herman Munster Kerry, not cute enough to be prez

Which I rather dispute, thank you very much.

But we have the same capacity to be just as shallow as the repubs at times.

But John Bolton STILL looks like a cross between Captain Kangaroo and Hitler. No offense to dead facist dictators or morning show hosts intended.

[MH1]

128. Thank you, you are right.

So many valid points can be made about Schmidt's actual politics. Why demean the argument by lowering oneself to discuss her looks, which have NOTHING to do with anything important?

Thanks for saying it.

:yourock:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

130. Ugliness eats it's way out from the inside......

n/m

[pinto]

131. Locked.

This thread seems to have run its course. We're locking.

Thanks for your consideration.