As a father, this picture brings a tear to my eye

[sabra]

An U.S. soldier of the 3rd battalion, 7th Infantry, 4th Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division from Ft Benning, Georgia guards two Iraqi boys as their father is detained during a raid, searching for illegal weapons inside their house, in Baghdad August 3, 2005.

[expatriot]

1. As a son, it brings one to mine. n/t

[Talismom]

2. This mother of 7 yr old twins in also shaken by their expressions.n/t

[KarenInMA]

3. I don't even like kids and this picture makes me shudder.

[MODemocrat]

82. At least you're being honest

even though I could never understand why anyone wouldn't like innocent little children. Sheesh.

[Lars39]

4. Is something wrong with the little boy's hands?

:cry:

[sabra]

8. Looking again, it does seem like it.

[Imagevision]

113. Is it possible the Iraqi citizens are adding to the number of "insurgents"

When you're entire family is wiped out, do you think/feel; "oh well, it's for the good of the country? We're fighting the Bush conceived war there so we don't have to fight it over in this country?

No! we're fighting this war for it's oil reserves and anybody who gets in our way gets killed. end of story!

[Tsiyu]

120. Also, adults will always use children

in survival situations and when society breaks down.

Neither side trusts the other one bit. And all this fear and violence are about giving a few people a lot more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Think about that.

[Kraklen]

9. Looks like he wants to ball up his fists...

and slug the bastards who are kidnapping his dad.

[lumpy]

32. The child is hurting and frightened,

it is doubtful he would like to slug anyone. No matter the outcome, he will remember the day his father was taken from him. Then perhaps revenge will kick in. Pity the children who are faced with the brutality of adults.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. I think

he might be fooling with his fingers. I think sometimes people do that when they are antsy or something. He looks so upset and scared. :cry: I hate this damn war. It is hard to tell if something is wrong with his pinky or not. He might just have it folded down like he's angry. Know what I mean? But again it's hard to tell.

[kliljedahl]

66. That was my thought, clenched fists.

Another Jihadist in the making, thanks Dumbyah.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[qanda]

22. His right hand looks withered

A lot of the children are born with deformities. I know there are many who completely discount Depleted Uranium, but you have to think that there is something to it.

[Lars39]

23. That's what first came to mind. :-(

[JohnyCanuck]

36. Thomas Fasy MD PhD certainly shares your concern.

Dr. Fasy is an Associate Clinical Professor of Pathology at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. He has longstanding interests in carcinogenesis and environmental toxicology. In the past two years, he has lectured at conferences and university campuses on the toxic effects of inhaling uranium oxide dusts derived from depleted uranium weapons.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4124449

[whatever4]

55. Could easily be du related birth defect, but I can't really tell

All I know is, we've used many tons of du weapons. Official counts were in the order of 1500 tons. A year ago.

The health care system in Iraq, previously the best in that part of the world, has been systematically destroyed. Hospitals have been bombed, and are now uniformly in shambles. Hospital records have been destroyed, and some have noticed how difficult this has made comparing rates of birth defects and cancer to prewar levels.

The levels established after the first war, which had already risen multiples.

The doctors have been fairly well run out of the country. That is old news.

We are to believe this has all been done by insurgents.

We are ALSO to believe there is no danger from depleted uranium.

We have circulated over a million us troops through Iraq. That number does not begin to count the civilian contractors. Our Americans have only temporary exposure.

How many soldiers from the first war are now disabled?

My soap box. Make no mistake. Depleted uranium was the end of much of what we love in this world, especially our babies. We just don't see it yet. Here. But I see NO way that we will not.

There is no fix for this thing that has been done. That is why it is being so carefully covered up, riduculed, laughed about, ignored. It's far worse than what we did to Japan. Far, far worse. It's in the athmosphere. Right now. Particles small enough to pass through gas masks, toxic heavy metal particles, reduced to microns. Which are also radioactive, with a halflife of 4.5 million years. Airborn.

It would have been bad enough as a toxic metal. It is also radioactive. A double whammy, if you will.

Distribution maximized. Like the ounce of gold that can be pounded into a sheet so thin it can cover a tennis court. Depleted uranium spread out so thin it can cover the world.

Distribution MAXIMIZED and injected into the jet stream. Just in case anyone crys over the intense levels in the water and soil in Iraq. It is also airborn, and will not stay in Iraq. Has not stayed in Iraq.

This, friends and neighbors, will the the final American legacy. How can it not be? My soap box is a scary place. Not much I can do about it though. Anyone tells you not to worry about this? They're lying, plain and simple. Don't believe them. Don't expose yourselves or those you love to Iraq and materials from the area, if you can help it, and that is the best we can do.

That, and get ready to be hated, I guess. Can't see any way around that either.

[DemonFighterLives]

79. Good Post!

:kick:

[whatever4]

107. Thank you :) Wish it made a difference, somewhere, somehow... nm

[atreides1]

5. Follow Orders without Question, like a good soldier.

This kind of thing makes me wonder how the soldier involved would act if the shoe was on the other foot, and it was his kids being held at gunpoint.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

80. The child is being held at gunpoint?

This photo doesn't show that at all.

[livinginphotographs]

108. He doesn't have to be actually pointing the gun at the child.

A little kid sitting there while is father is being detained by men with guns is still being held at gunpoint.

[atreides1]

116. Look at the photo

On the right hand side, that's a rifle, not a teddy bear.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

118. Again, where is it being "pointed" at him?

By the same argument, we can say that police who draw their guns on a kidnapper trying to snatch a child or a father beating his child are holding the kid at gunpoint as well, or any other number of situations.

Cut the semantics for the sake of hyperbole.

[uppityperson]

119. Flawed logic. Gun+kid, different situation

In your situations they are rescuing the kid, in this picture they are not, they are restraining him.

If a soldier stood by me with a gun like this guy is, while they searched my house and detained my father, I would say at gunpoint. It does not always every second need to be pointed directly at him.

Cut your semantics for the sake of argument.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

123. Oh well, maybe David Koresh was a genius......

Keep kids around the house, draws sympathy when the cops show up for a raid.......

[uppityperson]

124. Huh?

I don't understand, too cryptic for me. Could you explain further? Thanks.

[atreides1]

127. That's such BS

In the situations you described, the police are trying to prevent a crime from taking place, there is no crime here, just a scared child with a rifle pointed in his direction.

So I guess if a soldier is standing in front of you with his weapon pointed in your direction, but not directly at you, then you would say it's not being pointed at you.

I don't think you're all that Blue, more purple with a large Red tint.

[samsingh]

6. mine too

[carnie_sf]

7. I'm sorry

but every time I see pictures of our troops in Iraq, I think Roman Legions

[leftchick]

10. as a Mom to 2 little boys

it breaks my heart.

:cry:

[ourbluenation]

11. Went thru something similar myself when British troops

stormed my uncles house looking for escaped IRA members...long time ago but you never forget seeing your father go thru such a humiliating exercise.

[leveymg]

69. How did you deal with your hatred?

Glad you made it through to tell us about it. :toast:

[ourbluenation]

71. I'm frustrated by it but I don't now, or never have, hated anyone...

Would love to see Ireland unified under one flag though....Doesn't look like it will ever happen in my aged father's lifetime...maybe mine.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[XemaSab]

20. Like Elian Gonzalez?

Remember the outcry when the SWAT team went into the house after him?

That's what this photo reminds me of.

Any photo with kids and guns is just sad.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. It doesn't look like

the gun is pointed at the little boy. It's more to the side of him and just hanging down the soliders side.

[pocket]

41. it's not even close to being pointed at the kid's head

.

[Splatter Phoenix]

45. How close is close...

If it was your child?

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. Good point. nt

[radwriter0555]

13. HEY! That soldier has no free will, no mind of his own, he has to SHOOT

those kids if his daddy er I mean commanding officer tells him to; after all, he signed a CONTRACT and he's being PAID to guard those terrorists er prisoners of war; or are they victims of bush's er saddam's dictatorial regime?

Dang. I'm SO confused now.... what's that soldier doing there again?

[Sparkly]

27. Please don't blame the soldier.

I'm not sure if that's your point, but I'm just sayin'.

[whatever4]

56. No, I disagree, and I was active duty

I know we want to forgive our soldiers for commiting these crimes, becaues they didn't know better and were following orders.

But these are Americans. They took a oath. And that oath was to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States. Against all enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC. That is what the title of the book "Against All Enemies" was for. Both foreign and DOMESTIC.

Our soldiers, over there, need to step up. They NEED to begin to say NO. NO I will not commit such acts. NO I will not kill innocent people, I will not beat them, I will not.

That is the only way correct way for an American soldier to react, and no other action is excusable. By their own oath.

They will pay the price for it. They will be targetted themselves.

But THAT is what the oath meant. They agreed to take the price of war and freedom upon themselves. Against all, to the best of their understanding.

It is not hard to understand the injustice now. There is too much information, and it is too easy to see.

It was our duty to follow orders. It was our duty to ensure NO one ever follows UNLAWFUL orders. It was our oath to pay the price for refusing to obey unlawful orders. This part is key. It means "I was just following orders" wouldn't and shouldn't ever happen again. EVER!

NO matter what happened to us for it. Even if we go to jail. Even if each single soldier feels persecuted for it, riduculed for it, and hurt for it. Risk of life. Yes. That is what the soldier agreed to do.

THAT was the complete meaning of the oath. EVERY soldier takes this oath. You agreed to follow the orders. You agreed to pay the price for NOT following orders as well. You agreed to disobey orders if you perceived them to be wrong. Even if no superior officer stands behind you, even if you are branded a criminal. It is the obligation of the soldeir to face that fire TOO.

We are only to follow lawful orders. Period.

A soldier is one who defends US. One that agrees to face fire, for us. ANY fire.

Yes, blame the soldiers. They need to realize they are responsible for allowing this horror to continue, by not speaking up. By covering their own ass. CYA isn't what the oath is about. Facing fire is. Blame all those who come face to face with the truth, and yet follow unlawful orders. Treating other human beings as cannon fodder, due to their place of birth.

What unlawful orders? This entire war.

and...thanks for letting me vent.

[tavalon]

70. Let me ask you a question then

You were active duty but were you involved with a war?

I wholeheartedly agree with you as far as what a soldier should do but I'm also aware of what happens psychologically to a person when they are in a continuously hostile (yes, our "leaders" made it that way) environment where they don't know who the good guys are. It's brainwashing and people who are being brainwashed, especially in malleable groups such as troops at war, do things they could never imagine doing while independent.

Now, mind you, there are three people in that picture who are developing PTSD before our eyes. That soldier will go home, if he makes it home and he will suffer and he will wonder why he didn't stand up to his superiors and he will hate himself for it. He won't sleep easy unlike his Commander-in-Chief, er Thief.

[whatever4]

109. Oh, good question

No, please don't think I'm going to disagree with you. The very idea of a soldier standing up and doing what is "right" by refusing orders is EVERY bit as hazardous, dangerous and difficult to do as facing live fire. I don't mean to say it would be an easy thing, or a common thing. NO, I don't mean to imply that. They certainly get NO encouragement to act in THAT courageous manner. No, it has to come from within, and going against the peers and the team is NOT in any way standard human behavior. Not from soldiers especially.

What I do mean to point out, in a condemning manner I'm afraid, is that the oath isn't being read in this way, to say, you are OBLIGATED to carefully consider those orders, and are obligated to refuse them, morally AND legally, if you perceive them to be wrong.

And since the soldiers are not doing this, in the face of a nation and an internet FULL of information to illustrate easily how unjust the action is...forget how insane the prisoner treatment is even...they, themselves hold the final blame. They pull the triggers, the place the hoods over the inmates, they shoot the children.

I know, it's easy for me to say these things, and no I never saw action. I was active during the first Gulf War. I knew many, many people that went over. Lived next to them, befriended their wives (I'm female, nothin' funny going on ;)) and it hurts me personally, this war.

All I know is the oath I took, and I know those troops have to be considering these things. It's what we were sworn to do. And our troops, they may not all the the finest examples of education and literacy, but THEY ARE NOT STUPID. Our boys. Sigh. Guys I used to hand tool boxes to, TO's, coffee and snacks (I worked in the flightline support section after messing up my shoulder on the flight line). Guys I used to watch over, watch out for. Guys who learned maybe a little thing or two about women from me; yes, some women CAN do a mans job, and still like men. Lift the tool box, sweat a little, do a GOOD job, and maybe be a nice presence to have around. Smaller, but smell a little nicer, and GREAT for climbing into the small spaces on airplanes for maintenance.

Those guys. Not stupid, not at all, overall. I have to blame them. I know them. Maybe I only know the old guard, maybe there aren't too many of them left in the field. Maybe the young kids take a different oath, and I have to assume they don't discuss the GC very much. From what I learned in NCO Prep school...the prisons are inexcusable. Period. They are just the tip of the iceberg of the mentality over there?

The soldiers are the front line of defense. They should have been defending us AGAINST these atrocities.

They should have had the bravery to stand up and say NO, from the very beginning.

It's what they swore they would do. I wish they would honor their oath. Seems like the least they could do. Now.

[Catrina]

111. I agre with you

and there are a few heroic soldiers who have done as you say they should do.

You're right also that it takes enormous courage to do that.

Last week, Sergeant Kevin Benderman was sentenced to 15 months in jail for refusing to return to Iraq after witnessing what was happening there and refusing to follow illegal orders.

www.kevinbendermandefense.org

From what we are told, other soldiers have simply left, approximately 5000 from what I read.

Others have applied for CO status, but are ridiculed and called cowards, as Sgt. Benderman was, despite his ten years in the military and one tour in Iraq. He, imo, is a hero :patriot:

[whatever4]

112. Yes

I read about his case too. Apparently the idea of refusing to serve on moral grounds only holds during a draft, not when the soldeirs are obligated in some "other" way.

Makes you sad, that even military judges would do this, doesn't it? I wasn't surprised, but still outraged. How dare they do this, I have no idea. Don't know how they sleep at night. I imagine medicated.

And it give me the creeps to think of military prisons having guards that ALSO worked in Iraq, Afgan and Gitmo facilities...and hard to see how there WON'T be those same guards.

Sick. Just sick, what the soldiers are facing, from all sides. Oh so many superior officers I would bitch slap with their own cover, you know?

[tavalon]

117. Thank you for answering me on this one

And thank you for providing a really well thought out answer.

I totally agree with you that they should be upholding their pledge, that every last one of them should be doing the equivalent of the soldier who got the pictures out of Abu Ghraib. That said, for what ever reason, there are only a few of us who have the whistle blower mentality or make up. Researchers have actually been able to assess what it is in the mental make up of whistle blowers that makes us do what is inherently self sabotaging (while being supportive of the greater good). I have been a whistle blower so I know first hand that there are no direct kudos for the behavior. As a matter of fact, I was forced to leave the job in question (nope, didn't sue. I was working for the military). If I had another situation like that, I would do exactly the same thing. I have that mental make up and I would do it if I were in the military too. I can tell that you have that same make up and heck, I suspect a much larger proportion of DUers than the law of averages would say are whistle blowers.

If I hadn't read about the psychology of the other folks, those who don't have it in them to buck the system, I wouldn't have any reference point to understand. It isn't in me to not buck the system when it's wrong. Heck, I have trouble not bucking the system when it's not wrong. I have a rebellious streak that sometimes goes beyond my smarts for sure.

Now, that said, the people who raped and killed in Abu Ghraib went beyond "just going along". While I still feel that their superiors up to and including Rumsfeld deserve prison, I think they do as well. You play, you pay. And I suppose that is a slippery slope, so I may just agree with you more than it seems.

[radwriter0555]

103. Wow, thanks for the strong words, I agree COMPLETELY. These PEOPLE

that are getting MY tax dollars are AMERICANS and need to start acting like they still possess free will and a CONSCIENCE.

[whatever4]

110. Thank you, I appreciate you reading them

I have been wondering, the last couple of years, when will the time come when I have to be MUCH more careful of whom I tell I was active duty.

What are our soldiers going to endure, for all they have done? I want to cry at them, scream at them...boys, for all this, you are going to be SCAPE GOATS!!

That is why they carefully documented and allow the prison abuses. THAT is what will ruin our military in our eyes. THEY have been subverted. By the time the military wakes up and realizes how they have been used and the public turned against them, with 8 by 10 color glossy pictures of EXTREMELY well documented cases of horrific abuses

They won't have a leg to stand of even IF they make it back with the complete set.

I just have to say it. They really ought to stand up and say no. Because goodness knows, when it's all said and done, the rest of the nation and the world is going to condemn them in a way that makes Vietnam look like a precursor.

I can't see any way around it.

My words to them will wind up being the kindest ones they hear. No one will forgive them for "following orders". They REALLY ought to realize THAT was part of the oath. THAT blame is part of the oath. You will be blamed for not following orders. You will FOREVER be blamed for following orders you knew were wrong. Inhumane.

Genocidal.

It was part of the oath. I can't say it strongly enough. Military judges be damned.

[samdogmom]

14. We are damaging generations of Iraq citizens!

This kind of memory is hard to erase and it will color your perceptions of the world forever. I hope the father isn't hauled off to one of our infamous prisons.

Edit spelling.

[Not Me]

15. And creating a generation of Iraqi's with reason to hate the US

n/t

[havocmom]

thereby assuring decades of profits for corporations who make implements

of war, contribute generously to GOP candidates, and buy media outlets to keep the message on the propaganda.

[samdogmom]

18. Exactly!

Sometimes I think "insurgent" is the wrong term for the resistance movement in Iraq. I think they want their country back. It's hard to blame them.

[Splatter Phoenix]

48. Hmm...

I can picture King George the whatever (yeah, they teach nothing about history in these schools, go figure, just Intelligent Design-esque stuff) saying, "God damn these insurgents over there, costing me a fortune."

The difference of course being that the colonist people actually did fight "for their freedom" as opposed to having someone overrun their country to "fight for their freedom" for them.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. Exactly

If someday we really do get attacked by Iraq I know I won't be surprised.

[Talismom]

62. I've heard Mike Malloy make this point before and just thinking

about the generations of hatred and damage makes my hair stand on end! Growing up as a Jewish American hearing my grandparents talk with great hatred about Germans, I used to argue with them but always was moved by how long the effects of their type of trama took to wear off. At least a few generations! I hurts to realize that we will be the ones who will be blamed for allowing ourselves to be led into such atrocities by our "leaders".

[meganmonkey]

16. Could you imagine

if these pictures were seen everyday in major papers and news channels? I can't stand this. :cry:

I have seen so many wonderful threads with pictures today and they jsut break my heart.

How can this country be so cold hearted and cruel? If they saw these pictures everyday would they still support this war?

[Splatter Phoenix]

24. No.

I think besides the draft that was one of the main things that finally, FINALLY brought Vietnam to a grinding halt...

[meganmonkey]

28. Yep - the little napalmed girl

Many say that was the picture that ended the Vietnam war.

I wonder though if we have become more hardened as a society and if pictures don't have the emotional effect they once had.

[Splatter Phoenix]

33. Mm, that poor kid...

I think we have. I mean, seriously... burn me for this if you want to, but violence in our society...in movies and on TV... seriously DOES SOMETHING...I'm definitely against censorship, horror movies are a basic staple of my usual entertainment, but...impressionable (and not just young, stupid, too) minds take this stuff and seem to...not really care, or even more scarily, find it funny.

I thought Prezzy-monkey-boy was screwed when that whole Iraq-prisoner-torture stuff came out....I guess I misunderestimated the willing duped dumbasses.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Don't forget the men themselves protesting

I think that had a lot too. There were many of them who did. If you haven't see the film "Unfinished Symphony." The next air date is either August 24th or 26th and on the Sundance channel. It's a great film of the 1971 protest's.

[Splatter Phoenix]

43. Oooh, cool!

*marks it on calender* And if I don't get that channel (We just moved, so I'm not sure yet), I'm going to buy the video version. :D
Thanks much!

[leveymg]

17. Some day, ten years or so from now, we'll see those faces again.

Looking out at us from a video screen with the caption: WANTED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY - TERRORISM ALERT - . . .

While we may want to forget about Iraq, they'll surely carry this memory for the rest of their lives.

[rateyes]

60. Thanks for this post....

You get it...too bad our leadership doesn't. We're just making more enemies for our children, from their children. Somebody has got to have the stones to put an end to this shit.

[bluestateguy]

19. "illegal weapons"?

You mean this Administration does not support the right of people to defend themselves?

Oh, right. That only applies to white men in America. Got it.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Oh of course

And of course we are the number one country for having WMD's. We're all a bunch of hypocrites. It's part of the PNAC plan. Their plan is for the United States (well them) to be able to tell other countries what to do and nobody else tell us what to do and by using military force.

[readmylips]

21. I copied the photo....

I want to make copies and post them around my republican neighborhood with the quote, God Bless America.

[cfield]

35. And yet by showing this pic to any right wingers...

more people will say "Yeah, way to go USA" and MEAN IT than those that will say "yeah, great job US" with great sarcasm and disgust. The repugs get a kick out of things like this; it's just more evidence of the 'good' they think we're doing. Terrorizing ANY Iraqi is a good thing to them no matter the circumstance.

Why do I say this? Because my dad is one of those repukes, and without even showing him the picture I know exactly what he would say to it.

Fucking Bastards

[Splatter Phoenix]

40. Man

Do I feel bad for you. My father at one time was a Republican, but my mother set him straight soon after she married him, and I'm more extremist-liberal-lefty than both of them.

People need to see that human suffering is human suffering...no matter the nationality....Sadly, unless it directly affects them, most people couldn't give a damn.

[bobbieinok]

90. yes, many would say this....also 'if you don't want your children

traumatized by war DON'T ATTACK THE US IN 9-11' (what war supporters might say)

'modern' version of 'the only good Indian is a dead Indian'

people who know children in such situations could grow up to be our deadly enemies would say 'that's why we need to nuke 'em all'

in the frontier Indian wars some officers/soldiers made a special point of killing women and children so that there would be no future enemies.........not done just then; many peoples thru the ages have thought war must espcially destroy the possibility of future enemies

[HeeBGBz]

77. I shared the photos on another board, this was the response...

"yeah, im sure generations of families in Iraq werent already traumatized by suddam hussein. what is the point of those pictures? so that you can mislead people into thinking that the soldier was planning to shoot the little kids? in all actuality, they are probably there to help them, and if you look at the first picture you will see that the barrel of the gun is facing away from the child. of course there are hundreds of pictures that i receive in emails all the time of the soldiers and the civilians of Iraq together but, naturally, none of those pictures ever get posted in this thread, or in the media for that matter. i would post them myself, but i dont know how.

How do you respond to this crap? Told her in reality they were probably throwing flowers and waving little Amurkin flags, etc. Then, I posted more pictures... Hehehe.

[bluedog]

25. oh my god

this is so damn sad..those poor children.they look so scared..they don't know if the man with the gun is going to shoot them or their father......what in hells name are we doing to the children of this country.....this madness has to stop......what the hell is wrong with the news media.these pictures need to be shown......the media gets one story and plays it 24/7....news that should last only 10-15 minutes a segment.....the real news is bring kept from the people and I am so GD sick of this....

[jojo54]

26. Looking at those terrified faces makes me cry.

Why is this country letting this egomaniac do this to undeserved people? Haven't they been through enough already???

WHY? WHY? WHY?

I hope this cabal rots in hell for the damage they have done!!!!!

[RedstDem]

29. Sickening

...

[pstans]

30. Liberarators?

or occupiers?

[FreedomAngel82]

This is so awful

:cry: Damn Bush to freakin hell. He and his whole administration deserve to be locked in the Hague!

[Lannes]

31. They get more worked up over a prom photo of Natalee Holloway

[JohnyCanuck]

34. What's this kid crying for?

At least his Dad hasn't been wasted (yet).

According to Key, sympathy for the Iraqi people was one of his downfalls. “You’re told to treat the enemy as though they’re guilty until proven innocent, and to have no remorse and no regret.” During a traffic control point that Key was part of, an American tank blew up a car that passed through without permission. There was a father and his child inside. The father was dead and the boy was badly injured. Key bandaged him up and took him to the closest hospital.

“I wasn’t supposed to do this as it showed sympathy to the enemy.” Key and other U.S soldiers searched the car afterwards and there were no signs of contraband anywhere. “They just didn’t understand what stop meant,” he says sadly. There were signs everywhere that showed the military’s lack of control. At a scene in Ramadi, Key realized that no soldier was going to be held accountable for their actions. “We turned a corner and all I saw were heads and bodies. It shocked us all. There were American troops in the middle saying they had lost it. My squad leader told me to go and see if I could find evidence of a firefight and what went on. As soon as I stepped out of the tank I saw American soldiers kicking a head around like a soccer ball.

http://www.thetyee.ca/News/2005/08/02/IraqDeserter/

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Disgusting!!!

And the enemy?! NEWSFLASH: THEY AREN'T!

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Support the Troops!

:puke: Well it's just a few bad apples, not to worry. :sarcasm:

[spooked]

81. His dad has just been detained

n/t

[leftchick]

49. another view....

:(

[Splatter Phoenix]

51. Jammies.

That's what it looks like he's wearing, and that REALLY makes the soldier look bug-faced and evil. v_V not saying he is, it just makes him look that way.

[sabra]

57. sad, indeed. :-(

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

84. Nice photoshop....

Within minutes of seeing FAUX News using the "Soldier cradling a baby" phony pic as a bumper.....

Oh well, all sides are guilty.....

[leftchick]

94. I didn't know the AP posted photoshop pics on Yahoo

:eyes:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

98. Sorry, it doesn't look right.

The kid looks pasted on the picture.

And yes, the AP has gotten fake photos before. I seem to recall one of a US soldier being tied up and held captive?

[leftchick]

100. That was a screen shot from a video on the internet

not a photo from an AP photogragher as these are.

[entanglement]

104. A fully armed soldier and a 7yr old kid

Asymmetric warfare, anyone?

[Bouncy Ball]

122. Wasn't someone upthread saying the boys weren't being

held at gunpoint?

Gunpoint does not have to mean constantly aiming the gun AT the person. As this picture VERY clearly shows, they ARE being held at gunpoint (excuse me but if a solder was holding a rifle that size that close to my daughter on purpose, that would still be my conclusion), to make sure the boys stay outside while their father is being detained/questioned.

I mean it would only take that soldier a split second to move the rifle over far enough to be facing the boy. He knows it and the boy probably knows it.

My husband used to be in the 3rd ID. I'm grateful every day that he's not still in the Army. He is, too.

[Libby2]

50. As a human being

it does the same to me.

Those poor babies.

[ecstatic]

53. it should bring fear as well

Another young soul who will have no choice but to hate America.

[grace0418]

54. How could you look at that little frightened face and not want to

comfort him in some way? It's heartbreaking. We have no reason to be there.

[goodboy]

58. Why do you hate America? The Iraqis LOVE US! They WANT US THERE

You've been watching the LIBRUL MEDIA !!!

/sarcasm

[juliemf]

59. Defending Bush Machismo

All we are doing in Iraq is defending the administration. We are strutting our world super power to make sure that everyone knows that we are America and we won't stand for terrorism. We are not really helping anyone but Bush by being there, it's a damn shame.

[rateyes]

61. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[juliemf]

63. Thanks!

I've been blogging on other sites, but am looking for different ideas all the time!

[Iris]

64. Why can't people see this is how terrorists are created?

Look at their faces. In 10 more years, all they'll remember is the outrage.

[Sapphire Blue]

65. This brings tears to my soul.

May God / Allah / Jehovah / YHWH / the Creator / Waheguru / the One have mercy on us, awaken our souls and restore humanity.

[jarnocan]

67. so much misery-do whatever you can...

so much corruption, more soldiers died in the last few days then all last month another stolen election (and he was a VET).
How much longer before folks will say enough is enough. Please sign the - a million reasons - petition
<http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=5265&pst=209202> DO something more; connect plan and encourage others to come, or do whatever they can. on 9/24 .. <http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/Sept24WDC>

[NoBushSpokenHere]

68. Take a look at this site...........terrible what we are doing

http://www.albasrah.net

More Abu Ghraib photos plus tons of photos showing kids torn to shreds, depleted uranium defects, etc.

This war MUST stop!

[HeeBGBz]

73. The Depleted Uranium photos were horrendous

Not to mention all the other abuses shown.

[katinmn]

126. I wonder how Americans would feel about foreign soldiers breaking

into their homes and terrorizing our families and then telling us that we are there to bring them freedom and democracy.

We would not stand for it!

[ignatius 2]

72. This is heartbreaking, those poor little guys should be playing ball and

enjoying their childhood, instead guns, bombs and devastation are all around in a war that was started by a psychopathic bunch of evil bastards based on a pack of LIES.

There is no hell hot enough for the Bush neo-cons.

[OxQQme]

74. You WILL be assimilated

The aliens have landed.
Please Goddess, show yourself to us humans.

[KansDem]

75. As the father of a 7-year-old boy, I say...

LEAVE HIM THE F*CK ALONE!!!

[blondeatlast]

76. That could be my son. I never forget that. Either one (soldier

or terrified little boy) could be my son. :-(

Pray for peace, please.

[jillan]

78. That young boy is learning a lesson in that picture

to hate Americans.

Thank you bush:-(

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

83. Good lord people, could we calm down?

You sound like the neo-cons whenever they see a picture of random Muslims burning the flag.

The kid is crying because his father is being searched. I've also seen kids cry while their father is led out in handcuffs after beating his mother. I've seen kids cry when their drunk mother is stopped for DUI and arrested with them in the car. Maybe the police in those instances should have been "understanding" and just let the parents be, go on their way so as not to upset the kids?

Yes, it's scary for the child. But are the guys doing their job supposed to put away their weapons, and kindly ask daddy if he'd show them any illegal firearms or explosives he might have?

And for all we know from the picture, daddy may have slapped or yelled at his kid two minutes earlier and told him to shut up. I mean really, let's stop reading into this stuff too much, like the other side does, please?

[ConsAreLiars]

88. Look at the images on Fisk's site

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
and then try to justify the actions of the monsters who did that to them. Or am I just "misinterpeting" what is being done to the people of Iraq.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

89. I'm talking about this photo specifically,,,,,,,

....I'm making no general statement on the war as a whole....rather this one instance.

[ConsAreLiars]

93. You refuse to believe that photo. You called another shot at

a different angle which showed child's attention directed at the soldier a fake. You seem very determined to deny the reality of the Gestapo methods being employed in Iraq because in this one scene "for all we know from the picture, daddy may have slapped or yelled at his kid two minutes earlier."

This is just one more instance of fascist tactics being used against an occupied nation, not a single photo of a single ambiguous incident. US troops are being used in Iraq the same way way German soldiers were used in France or Holland, and they are required to use the same methods for the same reasons. Trying to discredit this photo, or covering your eyes and blabbering, does not change the facts of what is happening there.

Spend a day or so looking through the thousands of images on Fisk's site, and then tell me there is nothing to see or be concerned about or that they are fakes or unimportant or misinterpreted.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

96. So why not look at the photos you posted......

...as a stronger message about what a disgrace the war is, rather than latching on to a photo that while unnerving, is just "PG-13" enough to tug at the masses heartstrings without actually saying anything? A neo-Con could easily take the same picture and claim "A young Iraqi boy cries in relief after being freed from a kidnapping Muslim extremist.".

The other picture looks fake. Sorry. Just as fake as the propaganda the neo-Cons put out of Iraqi children handing flowers to soldiers or troops cradling babies in their arms. If it so upsets you that people don't buy into every picture they see, then I hope you call people on it when they dismiss the military's propaganda photos, in the interest of fairness.

Furthermore, if the same photo had been taken in Somalia or Kosovo six or seven years ago.....would you be so quick to rush out and hold it up as proof of US Imperialism? Can you go back and find photos of UN peacekeeping forces who happen to be carrying machine guns with a distraught looking child in the background? I bet they exist.

The Fisk photos do disturb me. But those aren't the pictures that this thread is referring to. Stop trying to paint me as a monster simply because this picture doesn't strike me the same way as it does you.

[ConsAreLiars]

99. I guess, if you are comparing Iraq to Somalia and Kosovo,

that you really don't know what is going on. Sure some idiot could claim that "US imperialism" (your phrase) was proven by some picture in those locales, but the fact is that the plans and goals for the invasion and occupation of Iraq were laid out long ago by those who now hold State Power in the US, and Iraq, whether you see it or not, is a rather different case from those two examples.

This picture appears in that context. Seeing it in isolation from the surrounding facts is bizarre. And if it failed to move you, well, that says more about you than you may want to admit.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

115. Nope, I never compared them.....

....I simply said similar pictures and images could have come from those instances as well.

And a photo of a child crying because his father is being searched moves me less than a photo of any human, child or adult, dead in the street because someone believed they could engage in a firefight with a soldier who dropped his guard.

[leftchick]

97. It Sucks for the whole Family.....

They are all being traumatized and the US is creating more animosity towards our troops and accomplishing nothing in return. It is a hopeless quagmire that needs to end now....



CAPTION CLARIFICATION - CLARIFYING THE DIVISION OF THE U.S. SOLDIERS A group of Iraqi women complain to U.S. soldiers of the 3rd battalion, 7th Infantry, 4th Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division from Ft Benning, Georgia after a family member was detained during a raid, searching for illegal weapons inside their house, in Baghdad August 3, 2005. REUTERS/Andrea Comas

[Ilsa]

85. Your pic has just been mentioned on the Mike Malloy show.

Said the pic hurts like a knife in the heart.

[sabra]

91. Malloy mentioned it, or a caller?

What was said? Thanks for the update!

[ConsAreLiars]

102. Malloy brought it up.

Went on to talk about how, being older now and with 1-year-old Molly, he is more provoked by this kind of image than he was 25-30 years ago when his first kids were coming into this world.

[ClayZ]

86. Broken Hearts!

[lonestarnot]

87. Let this little boy inspire you! Write letters, join protests, make signs

Do your own thing but do something!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

92. American Military calls this collateral damage (see Viet Nam Pic)

May God forgive us.

[Clark2008]

95. Ahhh. man... I'm bawling.

That little boy - the littlest one who's balling his fists and picking his nails - looks like my little boy - who is half Arabic - and I'm just beside myself.

Why the hell do you have to guard little boys with such big weaponry?
Oh, man.

Poor little guys. :cry:

[SoCalDem]

101. Those boys will grow up:

A. hating americans for humiliating their father
B. hating americans for scaring the crap out of them

[Solly Mack]

105. That's just so wrong

those poor babies...

[HamdenRice]

106. Palestinianization of Iraq/Israelization of America continues ...

When the war began I had this sinking feeling that the occupation would be alot like the occupation of Palestine and it would generate very similar images. It has.

The pathetic part about it is that there were some neo-cons who welcomed this -- with their racist ideology about Arabs "only understanding force," which they learned from Likud advisors.

[paula777]

114. Even if I was ORDERED to, I couldn't do what some of these soldiers

are doing. If I was that soldier right there I would give that kid a hug so he wasn't so frightened. I 'support the troops' and all, but I'm starting to wonder what that really means.

[Javaman]

121. What kind of life must these kids have? We as Americans should be ashamed.

[katinmn]

125. yes, heartbreaking

[evil eggplant]

128. yes

I completely agree