To Howard Dean (if you are reading)

[slybacon9]

In response to your Democracy Bonds...

No no no.

Why? so we can BUY our way in?

Let's see...
bending to the middle didn't work.
showing our "moral values" didn't work.
staying niiiiice liberals didn't work.
not calling ourselves liberal didn't work.
not speaking up against an illegal war didn't work.
not speaking up against banning gay marriage didn't work.
showing how tuff we are on terror didn't work.
parading veterans onto the ballots didn't work.
befriending the fucking rednecks didn't work.
showing our "passionate side" didn't work. (al)
showing our "passionate side" didn't work. (howie)
not being too intellectual didn't work.
trying to look patriotic didn't work.
trying to be everything to everybody DIDN'T WORK.
concedeing defeat one hour after a controversial election didn't work.
compromising our beliefs in congress doesn't work.
playing by the republican's rules doesn't work.
doing everything else BUT BEING WHO WE REALLY ARE...

DOESN'T

FUCKING

WORK.


You don't need our money to beat these fuckers Dean. That's just another crutch. You just need to be who you are, and STAND UP. For fucksake, you want to make this so difficult.

Let me explain:

Real Goodness, I'm talking REAL Good, exists in everyone... past all this surface shit about winning and losing. You focus on the GOOD instead of winning, and you will find ourselves winning everywhere. "Their moral values" thing is as shallow as believing there is an us and a them. And so is "their money"

When Goodness comes, people are drawn to it. Everyone. And evil is forgotten and disappears.

Look at Nelson Mandela. You think he was focused on winning? No. He was focused on what is profoundly Good and glowing. And the evil dissolved in his path.

Dean, there is no quick fix. Trying to win will never win. Money and cheating as we have seen usually will, but at what cost and to what effect. If it isn't on a deeper level, we will back here again in no time. We aren't talking about winning here. We are talking about GOODNESS. The winning will just come.

Don't look for the key issues, or the "type" of candidate people want. That's politics, and thats crap.

Inspire us.

Inspire us like Barak Obama did. Bring everyone together. Heal us. And Love this country... EVERYONE in it.

after all,

we don't win unless we ALL win.


(I may live in an idealistic world, and i will continue to before i ever vote for another person who voted to go to war in Iraq... and i sure as hell ain't gonna start paying them to do so, ha)

thanks.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[Justitia]

6. Are you looking to pick a fight??? -eom

[WilliamPitt]

20. I'm looking to remind you

that your post count does not give you the ability to piss on other posts because the posters are new. That is, actually, against DU rules.

[Justitia]

21. Are you a moderator? "piss on other posts?" how rich, Will Pitt. -eom

[WilliamPitt]

22. From the DU rules

"Do not draw negative attention to the fact that someone is new, has a low post count, or recently became a member of Democratic Underground. Do not insinuate that because someone is new, they are a troll or disruptor."

Pretty black and white.

[Justitia]

25. So report me if you feel so strongly, Will Pitt. You assume much. -eom

[slybacon9]

28. Justitia, you are the one assuming

that a person's post number indicates their worth to this Forum. You have no idea how long i've been reading this forum, when i choose to speak, or who i am outside of this.

so as i was saying about our party's real worth not being based on a numeric value...

jeez.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[WilliamPitt]

29. Assume?

Your post:

"Kinda new for such a rant, no? Uh, whatever. zzzzzzzz -eom"

The rule:

"Do not draw negative attention to the fact that someone is new, has a low post count, or recently became a member of Democratic Underground."

2+2=4.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[Kalish]

34. must we be so rule bound?

[WilliamPitt]

36. Here?

Yes.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[WilliamPitt]

19. I take the right as my own

whenever I see people pissing on newbies for daring to voice an opinion underneath a low post count. Bullshit is bullshit.

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. Wow!

Just wow!

[tavalon]

2. Sorry, I disagree

Until and unless complete election reform really happens, money is exactly what they need and lots of it. Howard Dean is fighting for us but he has to fight in the paradigm that's been set up. When we get enough of the good guys back in, then we go for election reform and we neuter the corporations. Until then, I and many others will be financially assisting Howard Dean.

[slybacon9]

3. go ahead and play by the paradigm's rules

and see what that does to changing the paradigm.

you will be financially assisting howard till for a long, long time

[tavalon]

7. Yes

Until the corporations are cut off at the knees.

Do you think this is about Republicans and Democrats? Nope, it's about fascism.

I will support this side for as long as I can. They are less fascist than the other side.

[jsamuel]

4. Disagree, If we want the party to be willing to fight corporations, we

have to supply what they would loose. We can argue all we want to, but we all know money is the driving force in American politics today.

[slybacon9]

15. i understand...

and there is no way to win there. "They" will always have more. No matter how much is raised.

Money will never determine true worth.

Many of the people throughout history that would come to make lasting changes in the name of what is good had no money at all.

[jsamuel]

26. this is only one of the ways in which people can help out

There are many other ways that people can contribute. Sadly, money is the only way many people can help out. Other people it is time or talent...

While we may never replace companies, we can make a dent... possibly a large dent.

I wouldn't deny that a good portion of politics can be changed by penniless people (I am one who is trying), but it helps to allow the people with the pennies to donate at will and with some encouragement.

However, I do agree with the statement about dems needing to "STAND UP". I just think it can be both or both and lots of other things.

[hippiegranny]

10. I love your passion

and appreciate the hell out of your rant. I agree with everything you said except we need BOTH to focus on the good BUT we also need lots and lots of money.

[babylonsister]

14. What she said! Thanks, hgranny! nt

[BattyDem]

18. That's a great point!

:toast:

[Eloriel]

11. I've never seen a more off-base post. Never. Literally never.

Of COURSE the DNC needs money.

If Dean and everyone else in Washington with a D behind his or her name were ABSOLUTELY PERFECT in your mind, we'd still need money.

What do you think the DNC office runs on?? Or would being perfect sonmehow eliminate the need for an office, and phones, and computers and databases and snail mail postage, and consultants and trainers and pollsters and ad money and campaign funds, and organizers and other staff in every state party organization, and meetings and luncheons and conventions and fundraisers and bumper stickers and internet presence and so forth and so on and so on and so on.

Sorry, but no matter WHAT or WHO Dean is -- or anyone else, for that matter -- money is STILL an absolute necessity. We need less of it than the Repugs do, but we need it too.

And the IMPORTANT thing is -- Dean is raising it primarily (if not entirely) from the grassroots level, which means it's CLEAN money. It's not from corporations who are going to expect Dems to help them out, but from The People who can FINALLY again be better represented in Washington as we go forward.

We have GOT to help Dean, get behind him in every way possible and most of all help him fund the DNC as fully and completely as possible.

[Missy Vixen]

12. I strongly disagree

>You don't need our money to beat these fuckers Dean. That's just another crutch.<

As someone who has previously run for office (and someone whose spouse is currently running,) one needs cash to run a campaign in the US. One can have all the goodness and great issues one wants, but in the end, it's money and hard work that wins elections.

Our family's policy: Everytime Howard Dean says something the media (and the Republicans,) go wild over, we send money to the DNC.

Julie

[slybacon9]

17. and everytime they vote to go to war

or roll over against their beliefs for the sake of "winning" some other time...

do i get to take my money back?

[Missy Vixen]

35. Please run for office

Again, as someone who has previously held office, I urge those who believe that they could do better to run themselves.

>do i get to take my money back?<

That's up to you. Before refunds are issued, though, there is never going to be a candidate that votes exactly as you would like, even if it is yourself.

Julie

[BattyDem]

13. Today on Randi Rhodes, Dean said ...

that we have to start using the same tactics that the Repugs do. He admitted that it's not the best thing for democracy, but it's necessary in order to defeat them. That doesn't sound like the "roll over and play dead" strategy the Democrats usually have. To me, it sounds like Dean "gets it" - but let's be realistic: in American politics today, there is no way you can do ANYTHING without plenty of money.

[lvx35]

16. I love to invest in good causes when I can.

Be it DNC, ACLU etc. These guys do important work, and they should get paid. Its foolish to think that anybody should work without money. I do agree with your statement that we need to be ourselves, though!

[slybacon9]

23. BTW

Yes we need money. And we get it. And I contribute too. I just don't want that to be the crutch is all. In the end it is not the issue. And neither is winning.

If all you are thinking is that beating the other guys is the answer to all of this evil, then we will never win.

I love this country and this planet. I don't want to beat them. No matter how angry i am. Sorry.

You might want to ask yourself who it is you are fighting against, and what it is you are fighting for.

Me? I'm a liberal. And like Randi says, that means that i believe i am only strong as my weakest link. That for everyone to get ahead, we must ALL get ahead.

Winning might change some things, sure. But it isn't my goal. Goodness is my goal.

It's time to let go of the need to win.

Pay Howard, but maybe do it because the Dems STAND UP for what is right. Not just to win.


PS. I find it fascinating that in the same posting we are discussing our parties worth vs. it's worth, I am being judged by the number of my posts. And that that person's number has actually increased based on posts like that... ;)

[AuntPatsy]

24. What he has been doing lately is working, there is plenty of

evidence to support that assertion. Yes it is slow, slower than many of us like, but at least we are headed in the right direction. Perhaps you should help with your time instead of money, you can volunteer your time to make phone calls, send mail, etc.

Money is needed but if you don't have it, your time can be seen to be just as valuable, and he cannot do this without us all, so do your part as he is doing everything he can at the moment and should be commended, not reprimended like a child..

[slybacon9]

27. i agree

and i do all of the things you mentioned. Every day. And many more.

And he is my employee. He represents me to to the Democratic leaders, and the leaders back to me. So I am letting him know how i feel and what i want.

I think he is wonderful. And i think many of the politicians he represents needs work. So if he is going to get my money, i want him on their asses to be what they claim.

he needs my money for the party, i need higher standards from the party.

My friend died in a war that the last guy i voted for voted for. So if we are raising money so that Hillary Cliinton can play the middle, then i'm sorry... you are asking me to pay for my friend's murder as well as vote for it again.

[AuntPatsy]

31. I definately agree with you that Dean is in effect our employee

as is every single politician. And yes, you have the right to voice your displeasure in any way shape or form you so choose. I also agree that many that he represents needs work, but he I also believe he is doing what he can and with what resources he has available..

Can you imagine how hard it must be for him when his sister party, the DLC does not stand behind his actions one hundred percent? And yet, he still smiles, he still roars, and he still fights against incredible odds, I am sure if he could, he would do all this without cash flow, but as you and I both know, in this day and age, as hard as it is to except, money talks, not the goodness that I too agree should be the stepping stone to victory....

One step at a time. And as far as Hillary, I will stand behind her for now, I had a long talk with someone very knowledgeable about today's political arena, and like it or not, which I really dont to be honest, sometimes we have to give a little to recieve back a higher dividend and I have been urged to see that she is playing her part in this high stakes game as is Dean, they each have a role and each are working to achieve the victory that cannot be won without backyard politics being played out..

I just thank God that I don't have to be so highlighted and so abused as they are constantly in order that other's will not continue to suffer, we are not only at war with Iraq it seems, we are at war within our own boundries and in our nations' highest offices...

We have no choice but to stand behind those that fight for us, we need those in the inside, Hillary is. Voice your displeasure, it's your right and a freedom we should never give up, its what this party stands for, we are not puppets, but at the same time, keep doing all you can to aid in winning against the corruption that is stoutly insider our nations highest offices..

[Crazy Guggenheim]

33. But Dean didn't do any this. As far as the money goes

he "wasn't" trying to take it out of the hands of the corporations?!?!? C'mon.

He didn't say the terrorist alerts were phoney?!?!

The list goes on and on ..........

[Swamp Rat]

37. So much for your rant against Howard Dean (Here's my response, Dr. Dean)

To Dr. Howard Dean, if you are reading. :D

Thank you for:

Working with "the middle" as best as you could.
Showing we believe in a healthy ethos and not an abstraction like "moral values."
Maintaining the decorum of your position.
Avoiding labels suitable for "framing."
Speaking up against an illegal war.
Working for civil rights for all.
Showing that the "war on Terror" is a sham.
Celebrating and supporting our veterans.
Befriending Americans we lovingly call "rednecks."
Showing our "passionate side" because it really helped light a fire under our collective butts.
Showing that IQs do not matter - we are all Americans.
Showing your sincere patriotism.
Reaching out to all Americans regardless of class or color.
Not conceding to a singular defeat, only to come back as the Head of the DNC.
Not compromising your beliefs.
Not playing by the republican's rules, despite never-ending criticism supported by a fascist media.
Being who you are and true to We The People.

:smoke: :D

I only wish I had been more supportive of you Dr. Dean, but I'm willing to try now that I know you are a great American, worthy of the Office of the President of the United States of America.

:patriot:

[bklyncowgirl]

38. Money is the life-blood of politics--better ours than the corporations

Why do Democrats vote against the best interests of their constituents--like the man said "Follow the money"

Democrats with big credit card corporations in their states voted for the credit bill that would tighten the screws on anyone who carries a balance on their credit card--is anyone surprised.

Democrats in oil producing states voted for the president's energy bill--I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

Democrats in safe districts got big bucks to vote for something like CAFTA--despicable but sadly all too common.

Now some of these guys are despicable scum but others are working from a very harsh reality--in order to be in congress and serve the people they have to win elections--in order to win elections they need money--in order to get money they have to pander to the interests of people and corporations that have it.

What Howard Dean as done, first with his presidential campaign and now as DNC chairman has been to show that there is a way to raise large sums of money from small donations from ordinary people. This is revolutionary.

In the best of all possible worlds political campaigns would not be dependent on money, there would be free air time for high minded discussion of the issues and trashing your opponent would be the fast track to political oblivion.

Sorry to tell you this, Slybacon, but we do not live in the best of all possible worlds.

[Justitia]

39. .

[madfloridian]

40. "You don't need our money to beat these fuckers Dean." WRONG

What a wrong-headed statement that is. He is trying to give the smaller donors a voice in the party, and you post something like this.

It shows you don't understand. Of course the party needs money...it just depends on whose money.