Question for Vietnam vets: did the Marines see a lot of action there too?

[mistertrickster]

My history is a little hazy on the subject . . .

[Maddy McCall]

1. I'm not a veteran, but I am a historian.

Yes, Marines saw much action. As a matter of fact, the Marines had a longer tour of duty than the Army. The Army, if I remember correctly, had a 12-mo. tour of duty; the Marines, 13.

[Aristus]

2. Yeah, the Marines were sadly misused over in Vietnam.

They are supposed to be amphibious assault troops. Instead they were wasted on grinding jungle warfare where even the Marines' vaunted morale and esprit de corps were pummeled. They worked mostly in I Corps, up north near the DMZ. Like all of our troops, they performed quite well in combat, and adapted quickly to the fiendishly difficult terrain and weather.

But they, like our troops in Iraq today, were fighting and dying for a lie; for a cause unworthy of their bravery.

[mistertrickster]

3. Right, thanks, that's what I figured . . .

[Bunny]

4. My ex-SO was a Marine, and he did a tour in Nam.

In the jungle, on Recon. They were used there extensively.

[Daphne08]

5. Yes.

[kenny blankenship]

6. Google these

Ia Drang Valley
Hue
Khe Sanh
(I'm not a veteran)

[Eloriel]

8. Dien Ben Phu????

Dien Bien Puh? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else entirely.

AH, TET Offensive 1968 should yield some goodies as well.

[kenny blankenship]

9. That was our friends the French, a decade earlier

Dien Bien Phu is in the north about 30 miles from China.

[enigami]

10. Dien Bien Phu was during the French era

was the decisive battle that marked the defeat of the French in Vietnam,

[Silverhair]

47. Ia Drang Valley was an Army operation. NT

[enigami]

7. Marines saw a lot of action in Vietnam

But then thats what Marines do. Just for shits and grins look up info on siege of Khe Sahn

[ThomWV]

11. Well, Not Really

I mean they did, no question about that and if you were a Marine it was very likely that you would see considerable action. Not so if you were in any of the other services. As an example, guys who served in the Army only stood about a 1 in 10 chance of actually being in combat. For the other services it was even less - if you don't count high altitude bombing as actually participating in combat ... and I, for one, do not. Sure a few of them got shot down, but in fact more Army Privates were killed in traffic accidents in Viet Nam than bomber pilots shot down.

But, as for the Marines, think of them all as Infantry men and you come to understand why they are so disproportionately over represented when the shooting gets started. However in absolute numbers of men involved, no, they weren't taking the brunt of battle. That distinction goes directly to the Army. It helps to keep in mind that there were fewer Marines in the world than there were men in one Army Division.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[mistertrickster]

20. Ease up, my friend, he may be mistaken, but we're all on the same side

last time I checked . . .

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[ezekiel333]

19. Yes, we did...

"America’s longest war was costly to the U.S. Marine Corps. From 1965 to 1975, nearly 500,000 Marines served in Southeast Asia. Of these, nearly 13,000 were killed and 52,000 wounded; nearly a third of all American causalities sustained during the war."

On behalf of the "disproportionately over represented" I salute your math skills.

Gunny C/USMC (ret.)

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Are you serious?

What a stupid fucking question.

[datasuspect]

27. yeah

what you said.

disrespectful for absolutely no reason.

[datasuspect]

28. yeah

what you said.

disrespectful for absolutely no reason.

[karlrschneider]

39. Jeezus...get your sarcasmometer recalibrated....

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

He's not the only one asking questions. Does your remark also....

...apply to the rest of us who are directing questions toward this guy?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Are you trying to start something, or are you asking a real question?....

...I served as a Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer with the Marines from 1978-1981, and some of the smartest, well-read people I ever met were Marines.

Quite a few were liberal Democrats from New England and the South, and from all races, and all walks of life. They joined the military because they, like myself, thought they could make a difference in the world...we were all very young and idealistic at the time.

And then Reagan became President, and the sea-change to a much more conservative military began to take place.

[mistertrickster]

57. Dude, my son is in the army. "Conservative" doesn't mean uneducated

and stupid to me, although it does to a lot of folks around here apparently.

Conservative means they take a certain world-view. The need for strength against enemies often is a value they hold above (far above) the need for helping the poor, say.

See my post at the bottom of the page.

And thanks for your service to you coutry. I take my hat off to you, sir.

[jody]

31. What's your problem? Don't you know that many DU members are

veterans of the Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swede]

41. You don't know what you're talking about.

Military service doesn't have a party affiliation.

[dbeach]

49. Welcome home to you

from a 101st guy..way up north in the Ashau

crying shame to see what the bush cabal has done to Freedom..

[Walt Starr]

12. Only one name is needed here

Ke Sahn

Google it.

[Botany]

13. childhood friend's older brother was

killed about 20 miles south of the DMZ as a marine.

to this day that day his family was told is burned into my
brain. August of 1969.

Jim R*** :patriot:

[Bigmack]

15. Yup....nt

nt

[jody]

16. Killed: Army 38,179; Marines 14,836; Navy 2,446, Air Force 2,580

Vietnam War
QUOTE
The United States Army took the majority of the casualties with 38,179 killed and 96,802 wounded; the Marine Corps lost 14,836 killed and 51,392 wounded; the Navy 2,556 and 4,178; with the Air Force suffering the lowest casualties both in numbers and percentage terms with 2,580 killed and 931 wounded.
UNQUOTE

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. To get a much more accurate picture, you'll have to find out how many....

...served in Vietnam from each branch of the service, and then divide the total KIAs by total served in Vietnam for each branch.

That will give you a better understanding of the "contributions" from each branch.

[jody]

34. I know that. n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. That certainly wasn't clear from your original post.

[jody]

42. My reply was in context to the original post. n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

44. IMHO, your reply was incomplete. Here's the data that makes your....

...answer complete:

Names On The Wall: A Closer Look At Those Who Died In Vietnam
<http://www.thehistorynet.com/vn/blnamesonthewall/>

QUOTE:

CASUALTIES BY BRANCH OF SERVICE

The DOD database shows that of the 2,100,000 men and women who served in Vietnam, 58,152 were killed. The Army suffered the most total casualties, 38,179 or 2.7 percent of its force. The Marine Corps lost 14,836, or 5 percent of its own men.

The Navy fatalities were 2,556 or 2 percent. The Air Force lost 2,580 or l percent. Coast Guard casualties are included in the Navy totals. Of the 8000 Coast guardsmen who served in Vietnam, 3 officers and 4 enlisted men were killed and 59 were wounded.

Eight women were killed in Vietnam, five Army lieutenants, one Army captain, one Army lieutenant colonel and one Air Force captain. All were nurses, all were single and all but one were in their 20s. An estimated 11,000 women served in Vietnam.

[jody]

45. Thanks. I knew that but my reply was to the original post. n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. Yes, you keep stating that. Your original answer is still incomplete.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. 2 of my marine buddies weren't as lucky as me.

I got out on June 29,'65. They asked me to extend my enlistment for Vietnam. I told them to fuck off. One of my friends was promised flight school if he extended. He did and then they told him he wasn't eligible because he had fallen asleep 3 years before while "guarding" an office. Another friend just missed getting out before extensions were no longer optional.

They're names are both on the wall for the politicians to boo-hoo over and prepare the next group of cannon fodder for the carnage.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. And the carnage is already taking place in Iraq with place-names....

...just as obscure as they were in Vietnam.

More ribbons for the regimental flags.

More names for another monument that will one day stand in the nation's capital.

[dbeach]

46. THANX for serving.

Sorry about you friends..we lost a few near the Ashau

I was lucky..ha d a great CO who saw through the madness and still loves the troops todat

Chickenhawks partied and plotted the overthrow of the US govt at
U Chicago under the guidance of Prof Leo Strauss whom is known as the godfather of the neo-cons.


KARMA on these pigs will be VICIOUS!

over 58,00 gave the max.. over 300,000 WIA..

many deaths due to Agent Orange, PTSD, suicides,
divorce rates higher...over 2,000 POW/MIAs

another war based on lies..

millions of Vietnamese dead and the legack still kills em with land mines and Agent Orange..


Veteran for Peace and the arrest of the TREASON in the occupied WH!

[raysr]

18. Marine I know

was on the DMZ in '64, 17 years old. PTSD today.

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Maybe have the year wrong?

Marines combat units weren't deployed until March 1965, and certainly not hanging out on the DMZ until late 1965, or even 1966. Just saying.

[raysr]

35. Could be,

that's just what he told me.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. If he was a pre-1965 in-country military advisor, he was there.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. Two things

1) Not sure if there were any Marine advisors in the field pre-1965.
2) pretty sure the advisors were concentrated mainly in 3 and 4 corps, and not on the dmz.

just sayin.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Marines didn't begin large-scale involvement in Vietnam until 1965,....

...but combat advisors were in-country from 1954 until 1965, and some of those advisors were Marines. In fact, roughly 16,500 military advisors were in Vietnam at the time of JFK's assassination in 1963.

[kentuck]

54. yeah, they invaded DaNang...

There were no large scale involvement until after 1965.....

[Zech Marquis]

22. yes they did

lots of Marines served and died in Vietnam. Especially in the Tet Offensive, that was real brutal. :-(

[Captain Hilts]

24. Khe Sahn.

Marines were deployed doing things the army is supposed to do, like being dug in with howitzers in Khe Sahn whereas the army was doing things that marines normally do, such as traipsing through the Mekong River Delta without visible support. All of it was ass backwards.

[kentuck]

51. They did more "fragging" than anybody in Nam...

Marines did not have to look for trouble. Trouble always seemed to find them. Why? Because they were jarheads and they were crazy. Ask the 1st Cav how many times they had to go in and pull their nuts out of the fire...Just kiddin' guys.. :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. The Marines were used mainly in the northern part of the RVN

known as I Corps (II Corps was to the south, then III Corps to the south of that, and IV Corps in the delta), pronounced "eye-corps." They were the first combat units deployed, ostensibly to guard the air base at Danang while Operation Rolling Thunder was ongoing. This was as a reaction to the mortaring of the Pleiku air base in Feberuary 1965, which killed a bunch of Americans and destroyed a lot of aircraft. The Marines were the first combat troops deployed to Vietnam, in march 1965. (Of course, the advisors who infested the country before certainly saw plenty of combat). The mission creep was obvious: patrols went out to protect the air base, then more patrols, then clusterfucks like Operation Buffalo way up north along the 17th parallel in 1966. Marines were also used to man the big bases lining the DMZ, like Con Thien and the infamous Khe Sanh. These bases were just magnets for the PAVN big guns in the months immediately prior to Tet (November 1967 - January 1968). And yes, Tet 1968 was very bad for the Marines, in terms of casualties. Marine 1/5 and 2/5 took astounding casualties in their successful bid to retake Hue City, occupied by NLF and PAVN forces on the first day of the Tet Offensive. The battle is dramatized in Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. The Marines also took heavy casualties from shelling alone during the "siege of Khe Sanh." Marines continued to be engaged by the enemy (and to engage the enemy), especially in I Corps, through 1969-1971.

[Redstone]

30. Yes, they did.

Redstone

[geckosfeet]

48. ???? Oh man. Do I feel old,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[SoDesuKa]

52. Size of a Corps

The size of the Marine Corps is limited to the maximum number of troops in a corps. If it gets bigger than a corps you have to call it something else. I don't know what the maximum size of a corps is. I googled it and couldn't come up with a number.

[nguoihue]

55. USMC action in Viet Nam

Yes we did, in fact there were more Marine casualties (KIA + WIA) in Viet Nam than in WWII.

Highest casualties for the war were during the month of May 1968 though how often have we been fed the line that the VC were decimated during the Tet Offensive (late Jan and into Feb 1968) Don't believe it or the bullshit about how "we won all the battles..."

Semper Fi

[mistertrickster]

56. Thanks to all for those thoughtful responses. I just realized that I

asked a question that was totally misinterpreted by a lot of responders.

My son served for a year in Iraq in the Army, okay. So before you jump down my throat for "being so fucking stupid and disrespectful to our troops," pause to consider that. He's now in S. Korea and wants to get out in October. He's totally gung-ho. He supports Bush 100 percent. All of his friends do too.

I would say that out of all the service people I've met in my life, and I've met a lot because I live in a town with an Air Force base, about 9 out of 10 of them have been die-hard, hard-core conservatives.

That's why I asked the question about "liberal Marines?" It's not the image one usually gets, and I realize that a large part of that is Republi-spin, but there is a kernal of truth that despite the Kerry's and the Clark's that prove the exception, most military people do tend in the conservative direction.

If I am wrong about that, I'll gladly reconsider given the facts.

[CitrusLib]

59. My dad was career Army and fought in Vietnam. I asked him about this once.

He said most of the military folks he served and fought with were neither liberal nor conservative. They didn't lean too hard one way or the other. They were just doing a job, trying to get ahead in life. Many didn't particularly pay attention to politics at all. They tended to vote Republican because the party portrayed itself as 'pro-military' and despite the Bush Administrations actions, that view unfortunately still holds. The military also tends to vote for whatever party is in power because you don't rock the leadership during times of war. Theoretically.

Since his retirement, he has met many ex-military who blindly follow Bush and think we need to go kick some rag head ass. He despises those people and finds it utterly shocking that anyone who has actually been in combat could be so gungho about it.

He has also met many ex-military who vehemently oppose the Bush Administration and this immoral war. Personally, my dad worked on the Clark campaign in Georgia and South Carolina during the primaries (talk about pissing in the wind!). He supported Kerry and he is liberal enough on social issues that he cannot imagine ever voting Republican again.

Have I mentioned I ADORE my father. He and my mom are my heroes. I thank them often for raising me liberal. :D

[mistertrickster]

60. Interesting post, thanks Citrus, nt

[CitrusLib]

58. Read "Fields of Fire' by James Webb. The Marines were there.